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-   -   NEW YORK | Moynihan Station / MSG Renovation (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum//showthread.php?t=185034)

aquablue Jul 13, 2012 4:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StatenIslander237 (Post 5761990)
what I love about this is not only is this a cost-saving and preservation-friendly move, as was said, but this I feel is yet more reminiscent of the old Penn Station than even the original Moynihan plan was, with all that exposed steel on the ceiling.

WIN. WIN. WIN. :notacrook::cheers::banana:

It's a bit of a let down compared to some of the previous proposals though. The roof looks less impressive than before. Still, this needs to be done and it is a decent enough proposal.

ardecila Jul 13, 2012 8:36 AM

Well, the distinction has always been confusing to me. I assume the notion is to eventually direct intercity passengers to the "Moynihan" facilities in the Farley building, including the large atriums, waiting rooms, shopping, and public spaces. Meanwhile, the current "Penn" will become more of a secondary entrance, handling primarily commuters who are arriving for NJT and LIRR on foot or via subway.

NYC2ATX Jul 13, 2012 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aquablue (Post 5764063)
It's a bit of a let down compared to some of the previous proposals though. The roof looks less impressive than before. Still, this needs to be done and it is a decent enough proposal.

I suppose, but I felt like the old design was striking in some ways but odd in others..the roof didn't really evoke the old Penn in my eyes, it was more of a contemporary roof tacked on to the unremarkable interior of a pre-war building. You may disagree, but my heart still breaks for the loss of the old station and I think the new design has that old train station feel that the current Penn ironically never had.

NYC4Life Jul 13, 2012 4:43 PM

Very exciting of course, but nothing beats the old penn station. Still, a much needed improvement over the current station.

NYguy Feb 5, 2013 1:04 PM

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/05/ny...=nyregion&_r=0

New Idea for Penn Station Entails Relocating a College

By CHARLES V. BAGLI
February 4, 2013


Quote:

In the early 1990s, Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan proposed transforming the sprawling post office on Eighth Avenue, with its Corinthian columns, into a grand entryway to the busiest transit hub in North America, Pennsylvania Station. Since then, a succession of plans for what is to be known as Moynihan Station have surfaced with fanfare, only to sink later. Now, a major developer is promoting a proposal to improve the viability of the project by moving the Borough of Manhattan Community College to the back of the post office, which is across Eighth Avenue from Madison Square Garden and Penn Station.

Under the proposal by the developer, the Related Companies, the community college would move 3.8 miles north of its current location downtown to 1.1 million square feet of space in the post office building. The college would be the anchor tenant in the complex. Related Companies would simultaneously build a new train hall, train platforms and underground connections to the cramped and labyrinthine Penn Station at the front end of the post office. In return, Related would receive the college’s potentially valuable campus, which spans four city blocks near the Hudson River, for residential development.

Related’s chairman, Stephen M. Ross, has spent more than a year wooing college officials, and he met last month with senior officials in the administration of Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo, hoping to persuade them that this is the best way to move the project forward, real estate executives said. But Mr. Cuomo and the City University of New York, which runs the college, have not embraced the proposal, which has been perceived by some in the real estate industry as more advantageous for Related than for the college.

Michael Arena, a CUNY spokesman, would say only that officials have had “preliminary discussions with” Related. Matthew L. Wing, a spokesman for the governor, said, “We’re reviewing the proposal.” Related would not comment on the proposal, which was described by real estate executives who have been briefed on it.

Nearly eight years after Related, and its development partner, Vornado Realty Trust, were selected by the state to build Moynihan Station, the developer is loath to relinquish its development rights. And today, the state has no desire to end the partnership, if only because it would have to reimburse Related for about $25 million in expenses related to the project.

Senator Moynihan wanted to transform the post office building to improve the cramped train station, which is used by more than 500,000 commuters a day. It was also meant to be an act of civic redemption for the 1963 demolition of the much-admired glass and steel train shed that soared over the underground portion of the station. Both the old Penn Station and the post office building were designed by the same firm — McKim, Mead & White. But the development partners had a far more ambitious, $14 billion plan in mind. They sought to demolish Madison Square Garden, which sits over Penn Station, and build a new arena for the Knicks and Rangers inside the post office. With the Garden gone, they planned to overhaul Penn Station, erecting a glass-enclosed train hall, along with department stores and, nearby, office and residential buildings.

The complicated plan collapsed in 2008 because of the recession.

Currently, the state’s development corporation is overseeing about $300 million in work beneath the post office building to create two entrances for Amtrak commuters at 31st and 33rd Streets and to expand the train platforms and the passageway to Penn Station.


yankeesfan1000 Feb 5, 2013 2:11 PM

I've long wondered when BMCC's current building would get the wrecking ball, their current building taken from Battery Park, with the WTC a couple of blocks to the right, or south in the photo below. The idea seems like a good one. Moynihan gets rolling, BMCC relocates essentially a block or less from the busiest train station in NA in a rapidly changing neighborhood, and their current POS building gets the wrecking ball.

http://w1.campusexplorer.com/media/5...e-8135EE2B.jpg
http://www.campusexplorer.com/colleg...photos-videos/

k1052 Feb 5, 2013 2:31 PM

It sounds like a complicated deal to pull off but Related is one of the few companies who could possibly do it. Looks like they'll need to find a way to sweeten the deal though to change the perception that it's a giveaway.

Busy Bee Feb 5, 2013 4:14 PM

I just a wish a similar deal could have been hatched with MSG giving us a recreated Penn interior inside a magnificent and monumental modern glass structure, returning an awe inspiring portal to an awe inspiring city.

NYC4Life Feb 5, 2013 7:47 PM

So much for the new Fiterman Hall building that just recently opened.

NYguy Feb 5, 2013 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yankeesfan1000 (Post 6001716)
I've long wondered when BMCC's current building would get the wrecking ball, their current building taken from Battery Park, with the WTC a couple of blocks to the right, or south in the photo below.


While the site of BMCC on the hudson river ( I was once a student there ) would be a great location for residential towers ( the views are great ), I don't think a college is ideally what you would want at the new station, particularly in this part of Midtown where they are trying to attract more of a corporate presence. I liked it better when they were going to incorporate a hotel or office tower into the building. A school just doesn't seem like a good fit. Also I remember at one time more than half of the students there were from Brooklyn. I think we need something at the site that would be a gateway between Manhattan West, and the towers to the east like 15 Penn Plaza.



http://observer.com/2013/02/related-...nihan-station/

Quote:

“Under the proposal by the developer,” The Times writes, “the community college would move 3.8 miles north of its current location downtown to 1.1 million square feet of space in the post office building,” where it would serve as the would-be complex’s anchor tenant.

This would be an upgrade from BMCC’s 780,000 square feet between Chambers Street and North Moore Street fronting on West Street, but this extra space would be dwarfed by Related’s haul, should the plan pan out: BMCC’s site sits on nearly a quarter of a million square feet of land, the majority of which has an unimpeded view of the Hudson River. With a 20 percent bonus for affordable housing or a public plaza, the current zoning would allow the site’s owners to build 2.7 million square feet of space—slightly larger than 4 WTC, as a comparison.

Related may be able to count on the support of New York’s civic elite, who are eager to see Moynihan Station come to life—Robert Yaro of the Regional Plan Association seemed to endorse the deal if it would get Moynihan back on track—but BMCC doesn’t appear to have much interest in the project, especially since it would mean leaving their $325 million, newly-built Fiterman Hall. Plus, there’s a slight legal barrier to overcome: “It was also unclear how the school could legally swap the land without going through an auction,” The Times writes. Unnamed “government officials” told The Times that Related should stick to retail and office tenants, suggesting Google as a possibility.

But Mr. Ross remains undeterred, and Related is reportedly taking the issue directly to Governor Andrew Cuomo, perhaps seeking to appeal to his edifice complex.

Rail>Auto Feb 6, 2013 7:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busy Bee (Post 6001869)
I just a wish a similar deal could have been hatched with MSG giving us a recreated Penn interior inside a magnificent and monumental modern glass structure, returning an awe inspiring portal to an awe inspiring city.

I like the garden. Will they be able to do this under the current land swap proposal?

JACKinBeantown Feb 6, 2013 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYguy (Post 6002582)
While the site of BMCC on the hudson river ( I was once a student there ) would be a great location for residential towers ( the views are great ), I don't think a college is ideally what you would want at the new station, particularly in this part of Midtown where they are trying to attract more of a corporate presence. I liked it better when they were going to incorporate a hotel or office tower into the building. A school just doesn't seem like a good fit. Also I remember at one time more than half of the students there were from Brooklyn. I think we need something at the site that would be a gateway between Manhattan West, and the towers to the east like 15 Penn Plaza.



http://observer.com/2013/02/related-...nihan-station/


The whole world doesn't need to revolve around corporations. Having students around will liven up the place in a way where a bunch of people in suits won't.

JACKinBeantown Feb 6, 2013 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYguy (Post 5761608)


http://nyoobserver.files.wordpress.c...1618.png?w=600
By Amtrak's own admission, this rollout will take not a few decades to complete.

It goes against today's Now Now Now mentality, but this is a big project and it will take a long time to accomplish. It's definitely worth waiting for, as opposed to not getting at all.

NYguy Feb 6, 2013 9:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JACKinBeantown (Post 6003329)
The whole world doesn't need to revolve around corporations.

No, not the whole world, just the city's business districts - those areas specifically designed and zoned to attract corporations and especially around the major transit hubs. You can put students anywhere in the City, even on an island in the middle of the east river.

TheBigGeo08 Feb 7, 2013 2:53 AM

If New Yorkers want an example of an excellent train station, take a look at Philadelphia's 30th Street Station. All major Amtrak stations should follow that model.

Nexis4Jersey Feb 7, 2013 3:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBigGeo08 (Post 6004676)
If New Yorkers want an example of an excellent train station, take a look at Philadelphia's 30th Street Station. All major Amtrak stations should follow that model.

The Old Penn station was similar design to 30th Street and it was bigger then 30th Street. We also have Newark Penn Station a smaller serious of 30th Street Station and Grand Central Terminal so we don't really need any examples of stations to model off of. All we need is the money to build what should be built.

sbarn Feb 7, 2013 3:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBigGeo08 (Post 6004676)
If New Yorkers want an example of an excellent train station, take a look at Philadelphia's 30th Street Station. All major Amtrak stations should follow that model.

Yes, because there are no excellent train stations in NYC. :rolleyes:

JACKinBeantown Feb 7, 2013 4:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYguy (Post 6004084)
No, not the whole world, just the city's business districts - those areas specifically designed and zoned to attract corporations and especially around the major transit hubs. You can put students anywhere in the City, even on an island in the middle of the east river.

But NYguy (and I say this objectively, not argumentatively), just about all of Manhattan is a mix of residential and business... even midtown and downtown. The neighborhood around Penn Station certainly is a mix of both and was so long before any recent zoning for the new buildings in the area.

Anyway, I hope Moynihan Station becomes a reality for New York, for rail travel and for rectifying one of the greatest travesties in the history of architecture.

TheBigGeo08 Feb 7, 2013 7:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey (Post 6004707)
The Old Penn station was similar design to 30th Street and it was bigger then 30th Street. We also have Newark Penn Station a smaller serious of 30th Street Station and Grand Central Terminal so we don't really need any examples of stations to model off of. All we need is the money to build what should be built.

TBH Grand Central doesn't work really well. The main hall is impressive but the waiting rooms and platforms are dark and dingy. With the 30th street station, you board trains from the main hall instead of a waiting area in the catacombs. That's what makes the 30th street station unique and exemplary.

NYguy Feb 7, 2013 8:13 AM

Grand Central itself is undergoing a transformation, but nothing really touches it, even the grand PATH and Fulton Street terminals Downtown, as fabulous as they are.



http://gothamist.com/2013/02/05/rela...attan_real.php

Moynihan Station Developer Now Wants Free TriBeCa Real Estate


http://gothamist.com/attachments/gar..._moynihan1.jpg
A rendering of one of the entrances to the long-suffering Moynihan Station. BMCC would, in theory, go in an office building round back


Quote:

As much as we hope and pray that it will, the depressing subterranean mess that is the modern Penn Station isn't just going to one day magically fix itself. And the ambitious and long-gestating project to turn the Farley Post Office across the street from the current station into Moynihan Station isn't going to pay for itself. Which was sort of why we thought the city picked a developer for the project. But now, it seems, the project's developer, Related, is trying to think outside the box to make it feasible. According to the Times the company is actively trying to woo Manhattan's community college, BMCC, to leave TriBeCa and move to midtown. This is not a good idea.

The plan spelled out in the Times would be for Related to create 1.1 million square feet of space in a new office building that would go up as the company builds a new train hall, new train platforms and underground connections to the rest of Penn Station. The school would be the anchor tenant in the new building. Which sounds great—we want all of those things—but there is a catch.

In exchange for the new BMCC campus, Related would want the school to hand over its current downtown campus—which considering its location on Chambers Street next to Battery Park City and some of the best public schools in the city could be a potential gold mine. Luckily, BMCC doesn't seem particularly interested. And since the land is the government's it isn't even clear if such a swap would be legal. Right now neither BMCC officials or officials for the Governor (BMCC is a part of CUNY, after all) are saying much about the idea beyond that they've seen it.

Related is reportedly still working on charming BMCC and the Governor on this deal, arguing that it is the only way to restart the long-languishing project. Still, as much as we desperately want to never have to enter the current Penn Station ever again this seems like a raw deal. Related is already well entrenched in the city future (hello, Hudson Yards) and the last thing it needs is an incredibly valuable piece of lower Manhattan real estate as a way to get moving on a project that it should have been working on for more than half a decade. Yes, there was a recession that slowed things down but we're sure there are other anchor tenants out there to jump start the project that wouldn't involve the government giving away more "free" money.

Related should have concentrated on swapping with MSG, since it's already there, rebuild Penn Station along with some new commercial space....


http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/141417232/original.jpg



http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/107968182/original.jpg


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