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-   -   NEW YORK | Moynihan Station / MSG Renovation (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum//showthread.php?t=185034)

NYguy May 17, 2019 3:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Submariner (Post 8576065)
Great. And 2 Penn will continue to be a shit building, Penn Station will continue to be a 3rd world disaster, and MSG will continue to look like an ugly tumor that has no place being situated where it is.

I keep saying they should have gone ahead and demolished 2 Penn to give us better options for Penn Station. We know we will have the new Moynihan/Farley/Empire Station on the west end. And a possible new entrance, also on 8th Avenue. But the east end (7th Ave) deserved more as well.

The planning for Penn Station itself is supposed to kick off this summer, and work will kick off once Moynihan opens. We'll see where that leads us. But 2 Penn and it's wide addition will continue to dominate and overwhelm this end of Penn visually.

jayden May 21, 2019 12:46 AM

What about the NJ Transit area? Seems like all the focus has been on LIRR when NJ Transit needs the same if not more.

Doubleu1117 May 21, 2019 3:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayden (Post 8579187)
What about the NJ Transit area? Seems like all the focus has been on LIRR when NJ Transit needs the same if not more.

Might just come down to the MTA umbrella getting precedence. The whole area's transit should be better streamlined and integrated but thats the downside of having one metropolitan area spread over multiple states.

NYguy May 29, 2019 3:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayden (Post 8579187)
What about the NJ Transit area? Seems like all the focus has been on LIRR when NJ Transit needs the same if not more.

NJ Transit uses Penn as well, and will continue to do so. Access for NJ Transit riders won't change, all entryways are always in play. The focus hasn't been on just the LIRR, but on improved access to Penn Station.
NJ Transit has it's own localized entry on the southeastern side of Penn. It's still seen below on the left, just beyond the Knicks screen.
For what it's worth, I use NJ Transit everyday, and never use that entrance/exit.


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NYguy May 29, 2019 3:57 AM

https://nypost.com/2019/05/28/japane...-office-space/

Japanese ad firm Dentsu eyeing Farley Building office space

By Lois Weiss
May 28, 2019


Quote:

Dentsu Americas, the US arm of the Tokyo-based ad firm, is making a play for the largest floor at the Farley Building at 390 Ninth Ave., sources say.

The US Postal Service building is being redeveloped by Vornado Realty Trust into 740,000 square feet of office space on its four top levels with lobbies, tons of retail and the new Moynihan Train Station — Penn Station — below.

The historic building sits on the entire superblock bounded by West 31st and 33rd streets and Eighth and Ninth avenues.

The fourth floor Dentsu is eyeing spans 292,692 square feet, with the remaining three ranging from 100,000 to 180,000 square feet.

Dentsu would move here from Rudin’s 1.1 million square feet at 32 Sixth Ave., sources said, when its lease expires around 2022. It has been expanding there but is landlocked as this large landmark with unique global connectivity is nearly full.
Quote:

Dentsu is represented by Cushman & Wakefield and the deal is still preliminary. But the possibility of a pending deal at Farley is creating a sense of urgency for other large tenants, like Amazon, seeking to lease creative, tech-friendly blocks of space.

Amazon has long been wooed by Vornado for the top of the Farley Building. The horizontal space can be divided to include private lobby entrances for three separate tenants.

Apple and Facebook have already toured the space at the Farley Building, sources said.

Amazon is raring to get to work in the West 34th Street neighborhood, where it already has other offices, including one at Five Manhattan West, owned by Brookfield.

As The Post reported Monday night, Amazon is also taking a hard look at 2 Manhattan West through JLL. That need is for as much as a hefty 750,000 square feet, which would be good news for whichever building lands it.

The Farley is slated to be completed sometime in 2020.

chris08876 May 31, 2019 11:13 PM

https://scontent-sjc3-1.cdninstagram...ninstagram.com
Credit: moynihantrainhall

Busy Bee Jun 1, 2019 5:46 AM

^^^Lookin good

k1052 Jun 1, 2019 1:23 PM

At least it hopefully will not leak like WTC.

phoenixboi08 Jun 2, 2019 8:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Submariner (Post 8576065)
Great. And 2 Penn will continue to be a shit building, Penn Station will continue to be a 3rd world disaster, and MSG will continue to look like an ugly tumor that has no place being situated where it is.

I've pointed this out a million times - and I guess they're now saying it more loudly judging by the presentation linked above - that the entire premise of Moynihan is to improve circulation in the existing station by fundamentally shuffling all/most of the customer-facing facilities (ie. ticketing, information, waiting areas, retail, etc) into a larger area meant to handle it such that the existing station can be re-configured.

If you get rid of most of the existing retail space in the station, you can add new concourses, new stairwells, install elevators, so on.

Now, whether improving circulation (eg. elevators, new points to access platforms, etc) shouldn't be done if platform-level improvements aren't also being made is a little irrelevant to me, because 1) they're not mutually exclusive (both are necessary, and doing one doesn't mean you're not going to do the other) and 2) even demolishing MSG isn't going to solve all of our problems, because regional rail services need to rationalized so that PSNY isn't operating as a pseudo-terminal for some services (eg. LIRR, NJT).

Platform-level issues and capacity constraints can be solved by improving service and administration of the railroads even without removing MSG...many tracks could probably be gotten rid of and the remaining platforms widened.

As it stands, expanding the station will be a quite dramatic improvement, so long as they meaningfully make the correct interventions in the old building.

I don't like Cuomo, but the basic assumptions guiding these improvements are largely sound: You can make PSNY function far better than it currently does by improving circulation. Fixing the issues with train movements and the tunnels is paramount, but not making the former fixes won't mean the latter get fixed faster: Nothing would happen.

TowerDude Jun 3, 2019 6:24 PM

They still need to buy that block of buildings south of MSG to build Penn Station South to really expand capacity http://www.realtransit.org/images/htp/htp31.png

phoenixboi08 Jun 9, 2019 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TowerDude (Post 8593392)
They still need to buy that block of buildings south of MSG to build Penn Station South to really expand capacity

They COULD just not build Penn South...
It'd just be repeating the mistakes of ESA; that's what I'm too dumb to get across, I guess...? I do think there's a deeper discussion about what's going wrong here.

Quote:

Hypothetical/thought exercise:
1 ESA + Gateway + West Side Access were one program.
2 Expand LIRR to GCT - at existing platform level, not in a cavern
3 Continue tunnel south to PSNY - with re-configurations at GCT
4 Make interim improvements to LIRR+MNRR+NJT/Amtrak for interoperability
5 Finish tunnel; rationalize rail services for through-running, have contingency plan to renovate Hudson Tubes given new capacity
6 LIRR trains can now operate to PSNY via GCT and either head east back to Sunnyside or west to Trenton

MNR trains can to GCT via Bronx or Hell's Gate, and respectively head east back to Sunnyside, west to Trenton, or north to GCT - depending on their arriving direction

NJT/Amtrak trains can head north or east from PSNY and either continue on towards CT from Sunnyside, or return west via GCT and PSNY

7 With new service patterns (eg. ability to turn trains around outside PSNY) and decreased dwell times, begin making track-level improvements at PSNY (eg. reducing tracks and widening platforms without even having to wait to remove MSG) and rehabilitating the hudson river tunnels
8 Meanwhile, open new station at Sunnyside and plan long-term to build new trans-Hudson capacity via Hoboken Terminal instead of replicating existing hudson tunnels

Again, it's mainly a thought exercise, right. I'm highlighting the kind of comprehensive manner in which something like this (ie. the need to address capacity, expand it, and create redundancy around critical infrastructure - like the hudson tunnels) should unfold.

The basic premise, to me, is that we keep quibbling about the cost of these projects but I'm more concerned that the scope is wrong (ie. limited) because we aren't addressing the fundamental issue: The metropolitan area isn't properly planning for regional transit, and the restraints (administrative and cultural) that both flow from and bolster that situation are the reasons something like ESA is being built, at the cost it's being built, with the limited amount of usefulness therein.

It's strange we simply accept that upgrading all the RRs to use the same damn technologies is ideal but too difficult, yet we tacitly cement it each time we build some $10+ billion station that doesn't even take the marginal steps (ie. for what ESA cost, we could damn well have gotten a midtown tunnel out of it instead of the cavern) to get around dealing with it.

We've quite honestly either built or will build all the of the requisite infrastructure to get to 99% of where we'd like to be: We just built it incorrectly and so we're at like 10%. That's fairly frustrating to me.

I'm ambivalent about costs.

NYguy Jun 9, 2019 3:36 PM

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NYguy Jun 15, 2019 3:40 PM

https://nypost.com/2019/06/13/penn-s...nesses-inside/

Penn Station construction to close over 10 retail businesses inside


By Lisa Fickenscher
June 13, 2019


Quote:

Progress is galloping ahead at Penn Station — and it’s trampling more than 10 retail businesses that have been there for years.

Construction is slated to begin next week on a new entrance for the gritty commuter hub at Seventh Avenue and 33rd Street, whose plans were unveiled by Gov. Andrew Cuomo last month.

The futuristic-looking, glass-and-steel crop of elevator banks, called the East End Gateway, is meant to ease pedestrian congestion from the street level to the concourse.
Quote:

The problem: Work on the project will begin Monday — a fact that some shops that will soon be forced to close learned only last week.

Among them is Tracks Raw Bar & Grill, the so-called “Oyster Bar of Penn Station” that’s been a mainstay for commuters for the past 17 years. It and nine other shops in the corridor, including a Jamba Juice, McDonald’s and Dunkin’ donuts, will be forced to shutter on Aug. 31.

“I’m losing my entire livelihood,” co-owner Bruce Caulfield, who owns a wine store in the station that also will have to close, told The Post.

Tracks is a casualty of renovations that will result in a new, sun-filled entryway at Seventh Avenue and a wider Long Island Rail Road corridor with higher ceilings.

For the past two years, Tracks and other retail outlets located by the LIRR ticket windows have been operating on temporary leases that were renewed three months at a time by their landlord, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority.

“On May 1, they said, ‘No more extensions,’ ” Caulfield said.

The bar owner, who has continuously operated retail businesses in the station for 32 years, had wagered that Tracks was far enough removed from the construction zone.

“We held out hope,” Caulfield said. “They never said to me, ‘Don’t waste your time,’ and that’s why we didn’t look for another spot.”

He and his partners were waiting for the MTA to finalize its plans for the renovations, expecting to be given a new, long-term lease for their popular bar.

A source said the MTA is delivering the vacant spaces to Vornado, which will determine if any of the businesses will be offered a chance to return once the work is concluded.

NYguy Sep 25, 2019 2:30 AM

https://nypost.com/2019/09/24/mark-z...k-post-office/

Mark Zuckerberg said to be eyeing space for Facebook at landmark post office


https://thenypost.files.wordpress.co...trip=all&w=915

By Lois Weiss
September 24, 2019


Quote:

Facebook’s Mark Zuckerberg is eyeing a 107-year-old post office on Manhattan’s West Side to help him grow the social-networking giant’s Big Apple presence, The Post has learned.

The Menlo Park, California, tech giant is in talks to lease all 740,000 square feet of office space being built in the former James A. Farley Post Office — located across from Madison Square Garden, sources said.

The landmark building, which has been renamed the Farley Building by its redeveloper, Vornado Realty Trust, is slated to open next year following a gut renovation.

No deal has been signed, but talks are advanced enough that the US arm of Japanese advertising firm Dentsu has been derailed from its play to take over the fourth floor, sources with knowledge of the talks told The Post.
Quote:

The stunning exterior will remain largely the same post-renovation. Inside, high-tech office space will take over floors 2, 3 and 4. A smaller fifth floor, which Facebook will also lease, will be added atop the building surrounded by 70,000 square feet of outdoor landscaped park areas.

Tenants will have direct access to LIRR and Amtrak trains through a newly built train hall under the building, along with restaurants and shops on the ground floor.

Crain’s previously reported that Facebook is looking to lease office space at the nearby Hudson Yards buildings, including Related’s and Oxford Properties’ 50 Hudson Yards, which won’t be finished until 2022, and the already-opened 35 and 55 Hudson Yards.

Sources tell The Post that Facebook isn’t giving up Hudson Yards for the Farley Building. Rather, it is looking to lease both spaces, which are roughly two blocks apart on Manhattan’s West Side.

It’s unclear what will happen to Facebook’s current NYC offices, including 758,000 square feet at 770 Broadway and 266,000 square feet at 225 Park Avenue. So.

Both Farley and 770 Broadway are owned by Vornado and its chairman Steve Roth, who has been wining and dining tech companies for years in an effort to lease them the top floors of the post office.

Submariner Sep 25, 2019 4:24 PM

If only this was the impetus for a proper penn station rebuild...

Submariner Sep 25, 2019 4:29 PM

If only this was the impetus for a proper penn station rebuild...

chris08876 Sep 26, 2019 5:47 AM

https://aws1.discourse-cdn.com/busin...058ed8e6e.jpeg
Credit: Ezra Hug

tdawg Oct 4, 2019 8:35 PM

^ That's a great photo. It's going to be so beautiful.

aquablue Oct 5, 2019 12:29 AM

It pales in comparison to the old station, it's not a real fix for the crime that occured. Just a stop gap measure until MSG comes down in the future which should happen because MSG is vile looking. They don't even open up the platforms to the light in the new terminus which is tragic. If they had made a transparent or translucent floor you could have brought light down to the platforms, but I suppose the costs of that would have been over the top.

All in all, a half-measure that only sort of solves the problem. NY still won't have that station that will knock people's socks off like a London St. Pancras, or Berlin's main station, etc, etc,. The tracks are still dark and dingy underground without light. There is no great train shed like those of Europe and no light getting down to the tracks. Sad but True. Much of the new station is reserved for corporate offices and shops. Again, a lack of focus on the actual RAIL issue. MSG needs to gtfo so that NY can fix the whole thing properly and open up the tracks to the light.

DIESELPOLO Oct 17, 2019 5:28 AM

Gimme dat light!

Quote:

Originally Posted by aquablue (Post 8707652)
It pales in comparison to the old station, it's not a real fix for the crime that occured. Just a stop gap measure until MSG comes down in the future which should happen because MSG is vile looking. They don't even open up the platforms to the light in the new terminus which is tragic. If they had made a transparent or translucent floor you could have brought light down to the platforms, but I suppose the costs of that would have been over the top.

All in all, a half-measure that only sort of solves the problem. NY still won't have that station that will knock people's socks off like a London St. Pancras, or Berlin's main station, etc, etc,. The tracks are still dark and dingy underground without light. There is no great train shed like those of Europe and no light getting down to the tracks. Sad but True. Much of the new station is reserved for corporate offices and shops. Again, a lack of focus on the actual RAIL issue. MSG needs to gtfo so that NY can fix the whole thing properly and open up the tracks to the light.



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