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-   -   NEW YORK | Moynihan Station / MSG Renovation (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=185034)

vkristof May 2, 2014 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Submariner (Post 6560937)
I've always wondered what those giant holes were for. Now I know.

The bottom two photos are not Harold interlocking itself BUT they will feed LIRR trains between Harold Interlocking & the ESA terminal deep underneath GCT. The photos are also not current, not even for Jan 2014 date of the report the page was snipped from.

In addition, the bottom tunnel in the bottom right photo does not pass through HI but connects to Sunnyside Yards itself. The new ESA terminal does NOT have a train storage area deep underground and will use Sunnyside Yards as the mid-day storage area for the evening rush hour trains. So the stored trains will have to be brought in to the ESA terminal via one of the two tubes under the Hudson/Roosevelt Island, while the evening rush trains are being flushed out via the other tube.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7306/...bbba7f64_b.jpg

The current Penn Station has an almost 30-year old improvement to the ESA evening procedure, namely the LIRR's West Side Storage Yard. The WSSY was built west of the Penn Station bathtub, the now-mostly overbuilt excavation blasted into Manhattan bedrock by the Pennsylvania RR in the 190Xs. The WSSY is being overbuilt now by Realted/Tutor-Perini in the Hudson Yards development. The last remaining open-to-the sky section of the original Penn Station bathtub is being overbuilt by Brookfield in the Manhattan West development.

drumz0rz May 2, 2014 3:08 PM

Harold Interlocking is the busiest in the nation, btw.

Perklol Jun 2, 2014 3:17 PM

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...icle-1.1810750

Great! Our muscle car lover governor wants the arena to stay along with the ancient sheldon silver. :yuck:

Oh and get rid of the asbestos infested arena.:cheers:

WestSideGuy Jun 2, 2014 4:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eveningsong (Post 6601761)
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...icle-1.1810750

Great! Our muscle car lover governor wants the arena to stay along with the ancient sheldon silver. :yuck:

Oh and get rid of the asbestos infested arena.:cheers:

We all may hate the location of the current MSG. But you obviously haven't been inside it since it's transformation. It's really amazing and brand new.

With that being said, I would like to see it gone from the location, but let's start talking about MSG like it's a dump. It's the nicest sports venue we have in the tri-state area now (for all levels of fans)

Crawford Jun 2, 2014 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WestSideGuy (Post 6601896)
We all may hate the location of the current MSG. But you obviously haven't been inside it since it's transformation. It's really amazing and brand new.

MSG, even after the renovation, remains a dump. The exterior hasn't changed at all, and the interior, while improved, is still a mess.

Barclays is easily the best arena, then Prudential Center, then MSG. MSG can't be demolished soon enough.

WestSideGuy Jun 3, 2014 3:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 6602508)
MSG, even after the renovation, remains a dump. The exterior hasn't changed at all, and the interior, while improved, is still a mess.

Barclays is easily the best arena, then Prudential Center, then MSG. MSG can't be demolished soon enough.

I'm not talking about the exterior. There isn't much they can do about that without building a whole new arena.

Inside MSG is really impressive. I've been to Barclays, it's okay, but what's really great about it. There's nothing interesting. Prudential is nice too, but it's very standard like the arena in DC.

At least with the new MSG, the seating bowl is completely updated. The concourses are double the size. Everything is tiled. They've opened up sections so you can see outside. The scoreboard is state of the art. If the Chase Bridges are your thing, that is something interesting that no other arena has. And they kept the iconic ceiling, which if you look up at the Barclays rafters you will see dark nothingness.

BoM Trespasser Jun 3, 2014 3:28 PM

MSG Renovation
 
I do not know how it was lit prior to the renovation, but during a HNIC telecast in an aerial shot of MSG the building had a very nice exterior lighting scheme that I had never seen before.

Gold coloured vertical pillars lit from below, very nice.

Go Rangers Go!:cheers:

WestSideGuy Jun 3, 2014 7:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoM Trespasser (Post 6603258)
I do not know how it was lit prior to the renovation, but during a HNIC telecast in an aerial shot of MSG the building had a very nice exterior lighting scheme that I had never seen before.

Gold coloured vertical pillars lit from below, very nice.

Go Rangers Go!:cheers:

Prior to the transformation the arena was straight out of the 1960s. Tourist who would sit next to me at games would always comment about how this could be The World's Most Famous Arena.

Perklol Jun 4, 2014 6:05 AM

says a dolan's spokesman

mrnyc Jun 4, 2014 9:38 AM

penn fast food joints to be booted out for a duane reade:

http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article...d-joints-to-go

vkristof Jun 4, 2014 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrnyc (Post 6604704)
penn fast food joints to be booted out for a duane reade:

http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article...d-joints-to-go

Dang! I've drunk beer at the LIRR concourse TGIF bar.
The world keeps changing, even the bowels of NY Penn Station.

mrnyc Jun 4, 2014 5:34 PM

lol i know - i dont take this as a good move. i hope 'tracks' stays, but i bet it gets the boot too. hope not!

vkristof Jun 12, 2014 6:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrnyc (Post 6605234)
lol i know - i dont take this as a good move. i hope 'tracks' stays, but i bet it gets the boot too. hope not!

Change in midtown Manhattan is inevitable. The loss of a bar or a few bars in the bowels of Penn Station is nothing compared to what the residential neighbors of the Manhattan West or the Hudson Yards developments are going through now.

Maybe I'll have to take the LIRR into Penn and wonder around to take a bunch of photos...

The link below has a recent, minuscule sample of the increasing demands being placed on the bowels of Penn Station. In this case, Asbury Park, (NJ) area residents trying to get single-seat rides to/from NY Penn via NJ Transit dual-mode locomotives. For those not familiar with NY Penn, operating diesel locomotives are banned from NY Penn and the tunnels leading to it. In the old days, this meant changing between electric and diesel trains at Jamaica, NY or Newark Penn station, etc. DM locomotives make it more convenient to take the train to/from NY Penn and, AFAIK, boost ridership on these lines. NJT also shares Amtrak's two tunnels under the Hudson River; the construction of Amtrak's Gateway tunnels (2 more) would help relieve congestion, allow upgrades, etc. on the 2 existing Hudson River tunnels which have been in service for ~104 years. The construction of the concrete casing "place holder" for the future multi-billion Gateway project is one of projects ongoing in the Hudson Yards project...

However, I hope these NJT trains are longer than the single car length shown in the photo.

Quote:

COALITION RALLIES TO REQUEST YEAR-ROUND DIRECT TRAIN SERVICE
WEEKEND, HOLIDAY 'ONE SEAT' RIDES WILL RUN JUNE 28 - SEPT. 1

By Jill Bartlett
http://asburyparksun.com/coalition-r...train-service/

AND July's Harper's magazine (pay wall) has an article on "The lost glory of America's railroads" which of course loops through NY Penn Station, but uses the short Empire Connection tuunnel under the LIRR's WSSY/"Hudson Yards"

Quote:

21st Century Limited
The lost glory of America’s railroads
By Kevin Baker

We start in darkness. After fighting our way through the dingy, low-ceilinged, crowded waiting room that serves as New York City’s current Pennsylvania Station, we pull out through a graffitied tunnel that follows one of the oldest roadbeds in America. Freight trains once clattered along open tracks here, spewing smoke within a few dozen yards of the mansions along Riverside Drive and attracting one of the most dangerous hobo encampments in the country, before it was finally all buried beneath a graceful park in the 1930s. Today, we emerge into sunlight for the first time in Harlem, following a route up the glorious Hudson River, past Bear and Storm King Mountains, and the old ruined Bannerman castle on Pollepel Island.
http://harpers.org/archive/2014/07/2...ntury-limited/

http://harpers.org/wp-content/upload...07-302x410.png
"Advertisement for the NY Central" via Harpers.org.
Someplace along the east bank of Hudson River, with the Bear Mountain Bridge in the background, I assume. The broke NY Central merged with the broke Pennsylvania RR in the 1960's and went bankrupt, etc. Note the 4 tracks along the Hudson in the old ad.

Perklol Jun 30, 2014 5:15 AM

Plan to sell Moynihan Station air rights inches forward

New York state's chief economic development arm awards Massey Knakal Realty Services the contract to broker the sale of 1.5 million square feet of building rights that is expected to yield more than $100 million. Funds would be used to help pay for construction of a new rail station in the Farley Post Office across from Penn Station.


BY ERIK IPSEN
JUNE 27, 2014 1:22 P.M.

http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article...nches-forward#


Quote:

....

In the latest hint of progress, the board of the state's chief economic development arm voted unanimously Friday afternoon to award the contract to sell 1.5 million square feet of the future station's unused air rights. Those sales are expected to someday yield well over $100 million dollars, funds that could help defray some of the costs of constructing the new station.

After receiving nine responses to its earlier request for proposals, and then narrowing the field down to five, New York state's Empire State Development awarded the sales contract to Manhattan-based Massey Knakal Realty Services. In the near term the firm will provide advice to the Empire State Development Corp. as it wrestles with questions as to how far away from Moynihan the rights may be used. The sales of those rights is expected over a number of years.

Friday's vote comes eight years after two of the city's biggest developers, Vornado Realty Trust and the Related Cos., entered into a memorandum of understanding with the state to develop the Farley Post Office into a new train station and to use the air rights to build an adjacent mixed-use development topped by a 67-story tower. That plan, and several others in recent years, have quietly gone nowhere.

In March, the New York Building Congress, which represents construction companies released a report that called for the $700 million redevelopment of the Farley Post Office into a train terminal that would serve as a grand annex to Penn Station. It also advocated a long talked about $14 billion rail tunnel project under the Hudson River that would increase both Amtrak's and New Jersey Transit's rail capacity into the city and alleviate congestion. "I'm calling on more money for this," said Richard Anderson, the president of the Building Congress at the time

.....

Eidolon Jul 15, 2014 2:51 PM

Penn Station is a 'pit,' MTA board member says in calling for improvements to be made

BY Pete Donohue
NEW YORK DAILY NEWS
Wednesday, June 25, 2014

Quote:

IT SEEMS LIKE an MTA board member from Long Island has a case of terminal envy.

Speaking at the Metropolitan Transportation Authority board’s monthly meeting Wednesday, Mitchell Pally described Pennsylvania Station as a “disgrace” in comparison to Grand Central Terminal.


“It’s time for this board . . . to do something about Penn Station,” Pally argued. “I was going to use the word disgrace, and that might be too kind.”

Riders on Metro-North Rail Road, which runs through Grand Central, on Manhattan’s East Side, will be shocked when another MTA plan — to bring select Metro-North trains into Penn Station, on the West Side — becomes a reality, Pally said.“I pity our Metro-North friends when they get there, if we don’t do something,” Pally said. “Our customers going from Grand Central to Penn Station may think they are going to a different country.”


The plan to bring Metro-North service into Penn Station would route some trains on the railroad’s New Haven line into Penn Station via tracks and tunnels now used by Amtrak. It is several years from becoming reality.


The MTA’s East Side Access Project will bring LIRR trains into a new terminal underneath Grand Central, giving commuters direct access to the East Side — and a respite from Penn Station. The MTA revised the project’s construction timeline and anticipated cost earlier this year. It is expected to be completed by 2023 at a cost of $10.8 billion.
The faster something is done to improve Penn Station, the better.

TouchTheSky13 Jul 15, 2014 9:07 PM

Ok, can someone please clear something up for me? I understand that Phase I of expanding concourses under Farely and building new entrances is under way and that MSG's lease has been limited. What is to become of Farley? Will it (eventually) be a new train hall as depicted in previous pages?

Also, four of the city's best firms released visions for a "New Penn Station" a little while back. (I think SHoP's is the best and most feasible, realistic proposal). If the state decided to tare down MSG to make way for a new concourse/ terminal, would the plans for Farley become void? Is it one or the other, or could both projects eventually happen?

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/...jp1-sfSpan.jpg

Crawford Jul 15, 2014 9:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TouchTheSky13 (Post 6655999)
What is to become of Farley? Will it (eventually) be a new train hall as depicted in previous pages?

Yes, Farley will be a new train hall. The exact layout/design is yet to be determined. It will likely be mostly NJ Transit and Metro North.

But the long term plan is for Amtrak to move southward, underneath the blocks to the south, where a new concourse would serve a second Hudson River tunnel.

And LIRR plans expansion too.
Quote:

Originally Posted by TouchTheSky13 (Post 6655999)
If the state decided to tare down MSG to make way for a new concourse/ terminal, would the plans for Farley become void? Is it one or the other, or could both projects eventually happen?

Totally separate projects. Farley will happen 100%, but if MSG is demolished, then that site will be developed too, with a huge concourse, probably, but really for the massive development rights.

TouchTheSky13 Jul 15, 2014 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 6656023)
Yes, Farley will be a new train hall. The exact layout/design is yet to be determined. It will likely be mostly NJ Transit and Metro North.

But the long term plan is for Amtrak to move southward, underneath the blocks to the south, where a new concourse would serve a second Hudson River tunnel.

And LIRR plans expansion too.

Totally separate projects. Farley will happen 100%, but if MSG is demolished, then that site will be developed too, with a huge concourse, probably, but really for the massive development rights.

Oh, I see. Thank you so much for clearing that up!

vkristof Jul 16, 2014 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TouchTheSky13 (Post 6656081)
Oh, I see. Thank you so much for clearing that up!

The following is from Amtrak's INK publication, June 2014. IMHO the conversion of the Farley Post Office to "Moynihan Station" is the closest to being realized this decade. The bolding and italics is mine:
Quote:

Following future negotiations, Amtrak plans to relocate its operations from Penn Station to Moynihan Station when Phase II is fully funded and completed.
“Phase II will be turning the Farley Building into a station with better passenger flow in which every entrance will feed into the new station,” said Marty Mack.
“This is very exciting and a real challenge, but the final product of getting a new station will be worth it. This is one of the busiest locations in the system and it has taken a great amount of collaboration from Amtrak’s Transportation, Operations and Engineering departments as well as general contractor Skanska, Port Authority of New York and New Jersey and Moynihan Station Development Corporation,” added Mack.
The invocation of Skanska & PANYNJ (management role) is WRT the current Phase I under the east side of Farley and through portions of the eastern facade. Skanksa was recently tearing up the iconic steps up from 8th Ave to Farley. I assume that was in prep for doing a cut & cover to expand the West End Concourse under the steps/sidewalk.

The June 29th j-biz photo below is looking ~north at the northern end of the Farley PO 8th Ave facade/steps & shows the beginnings? of this work to the steps:

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/29/t...l/yduhazed.jpg
j-biz of ssc

Perklol Aug 14, 2014 6:12 AM

Did $1 Billion renovation budget include asbestos removal from the building?


http://www.nytimes.com/1988/04/28/bu...s-shunned.html

Buildings With Asbestos Shunned

By ERIC N. BERG
Published: April 28, 1988

Quote:

Only a few years ago, hardly anyone worried about renting or buying an office building that contained asbestos, the cancer-causing construction material.

But that has suddenly changed. Owners of asbestos-filled buildings are having more difficulty attracting tenants. Sellers have to offer steep discounts. And buyers are having trouble lining up lenders or investors.

The key reason for the turnabout is new state laws. Led by New York, 22 states have adopted anti-asbestos laws in the last year alone, raising the number of states regulating asbestos to 38, according to Asbestos Abatement Report, a newsletter. It is only a matter of time, experts say, before the remaining states pass asbestos laws, which typically require a landlord to remove asbestos before a building is demolished or renovated and regulate how it shall be removed.

[...]

Until it was outlawed in the early 1970's, asbestos was used to insulate, soundproof and fireproof buildings. The vast majority of buildings constructed in major cities between 1920 and 1970 contain asbestos. These structures include some of New York's most famous - from the Pan Am Building to Madison Square Garden.

Now, in the wake of the new laws, real estate professionals say prices for asbestos-containing office buildings have fallen 5 to 10 percent in Manhattan and even more in other cities. That can translate into tens of millions of dollars when such buildings command hundreds of millions of dollars.

''I don't know one who will buy a building with asbestos,'' said Mr. Haggarty of the dozen or so Japanese insurers he deals with.

Such companies as the International Business Machines Corporation and reportedly the Metropolitan Life Insurance Company will not lease office space in buildings containing asbestos.


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