The Wexford/ASU project is crap. ASU shouldn't be allowed to build a single new building- its footprint is massive for how few of its buildings reach 10 floors or have mixed uses. I don't see how ASU and the PBC continue to build without an updated plan- the only PBC plan is a massing study.

Given the size and location of the campus, the design deserves public review. This campus should be recruiting the best employers, the best jobs, and the best talent, and it could have done so by integrating into the best neighborhoods of downtown. A park with dense housing focused on healthy living or live/work offices for doctors/dentists/etc. would have been a great addition to the 4th Street corridor. I have said this before, but getting someone like a Petsmart to invest in a veterinary school with some office and incubator space would make the neighborhood livable while facilitating investment into the idea of the PBC.

4th St/Garfield is hot real estate. The use of the arts in technology would have been a great bridge between the two districts- alternative health spaces, continuing education conference rooms within a hotel, or just plain dense housing for employees/students with things like dance studios, spas, etc., would have made such more sense than what is essentially a carbon-copy of every ASU/PBC building. There's retail at the 4th/Garfield corner, but that's it... the rest is similar to the crappy Law School frontage. I can't wait until 'coworking' spaces are no longer 'in,' except for ones that are invested in and lead to jobs. https://archinect.com/jmanderson/pro...1#&gid=1&pid=2

Long time no see man, but this building is perfectly in line with the heights of the surrounding area it has first floor retail, its half the block and apartments are planned the next block over.

Did you expect ASU to build a 20 story lab building?

DeSoto Central Market on Roosevelt Row has permanently closed
 

Wow, I didn't see this coming. :(

https://www.azcentral.com/story/ente...ed/1041664002/

Wow. This is a huge loss. I never loved DeSoto, but this stinks. Maybe the problem is too many people shared the same sentiments. It's cool, but I found myself often bored there and just stopping in for a drink, doing a lap then leaving.

Hmm, so I don’t think it’s lack of buisness thing but apparently the management change killed the concept?

It's always been pretty busy whenever I've walked by. So not sure why they decieded to close up or what the future is for it.

Edit: Wasn't the car shop next door purchased with a similar concept to DeSoto planed? It's not the same ownership is it? I wonder if something could be in the works to integrate both buildings into a larger project.

I'm sorry but not surprised to see it close. Whenever I was there, a significant number of the people inside seemed to be treating it like a Starbucks -- maybe buying a coffee or light snack and then lingering and taking up entire tables. I think a lot of people saw it as free meeting space for their book club or similar event without an expectation of making a significant purchase.

With Jones having set up his own place nearby and the Churchill about to open, it was probably smart to bow out before being crushed by the competition. Back when the DeSoto Central Market first opened, someone whose opinion I respect a great deal suggested the space would be ideal for a brewery. I'd love to see that happen.

It’s a cool building and the edition of the large sliding glass and patio make it great for something like that

Put me in the camp of people who are sad that it didn't work but not at all surprised. The lack of parking was a hurdle. The layout like a big mall food court was a bigger hurdle. The abundance of completely wasted space was the largest hurdle.

I've taken many people there who hated it because it felt like "airport" "mall" "a big empty room", etc. After a while I stopped taking people. I hardly think my acquaintances are the only ones who felt that way.

Not sure what information you have but Amerco/UHaul has owned that building since the early nineties, according to county assessor they still do.

The car repair shop next door was permantly closed and we even had a conversation on this forum about what was going to be done with the vacant property. Some had hoped it could given a similar treatment as DeSoto's and could be joined in some fashion. But I dregress. No news has come about with that and I was just wondering if maybe something had changed with that property.

so speculation and wishful thinking....

Better than your speculative pessimism.

I think DeSoto was feeling the heat from The Churchill. DeSoto is a great space that's laid out terribly. People walk by and see an empty bar instead of food stalls.

This seems like the perfect opportunity for Four Peaks, but I've been assuming they'd make that move for about a decade. Probably just speculation and wishful thinking on my part.

Its always only been treated as a bar that happens to have food stalls.

They could reorient the inside so the bar and food stalls face eachother perpendicular witht he front door which would make it more obviously a market. HAving to go around the bar was alaways a goofy layout in my oppinion

It's not pessimism, it's reality. Until someone starts building something there (or at least permits and has financial backing) you're doing nothing more than guessing and hoping. :shrug:

Add me to the list of feeling like DeSoto was laid out poorly. I would have liked to have seen the food stalls up front and the bar in the back with a clear shot straight through to see the bar. That way when your group walks in, you all order food, and then you progress further in and buy a drink while you wait for food. You can then wait for your food at a table in the middle with the space with the rest of your group and pick up food with a drink in your hand. A clear progression.

I think the food hall idea is a great one and works extremely well most places they exist. This one on the other hand...

My only fear is that sam fox buys it, throws 8 sh**ty stalls in there and uses it as an incubator to mine ideas for his expansion of TGI Fridays for people with disposable income.

I think Fox putting something in that location would be great for the neighborhood as a whole, to be quite honest.

I just have an anti-Sam Fox attitude in general. I would much rather see just about anyone open there. Also, it would signal the absolute death or Roosevelt Row as an artistic community to me. I understand it really isn't one any more, but in my head, it still has at least a diluted artsy feel to me.

Luckily, I don't think Fox would ever open a place without at least access to ample parking. I feel like the prime Fox spot right there would either be in the bottom of a building with a garage or the radio station across the street. I can see him being all over the radio station.

Finally opening on Saturday, Sep 1st! I've been looking forward to this...

Hating sam fox is being a bit over-hipster dont you think? he is a local guy with good succesfull restauarunts and one of the major forces behind a gentrifying central Phoenix.

We should support him and his endevours. :shrug: