I remember reading in some of the CTA's responses to comments at some point of the Circle Line alternatives analysis stage that a route along Western was projected to have significantly higher ridership but would of course cost much more because of the absence of any existing right-of-way or track. Barring a magical development in subway construction technology, the best we can probably hope for there is bus rapid transit.

I can understand why a Circle Line roughly along Ashland might not be a good use of severely limited resources, but I still think that most here would agree that some spoke-connecting line would make the system a whole lot more usable and attractive for a wider variety of trips. Personally I would probably rather see a Mid-City Transitway fill that role, but I guess I can keep dreaming on that one.

Aside from lower cost, one benefit of the Circle Line is that it could relieve congestion and decrease headways through the State subway to the point where trips with endpoints between North Ave. and Roosevelt could be made very quickly by rail. So it would be good news for River North and the Loop, too.

As far as I know, it actually has been in the long term capital plans of the regional planning agencies for some time (e.g. decades), but obviously there has been zero progress in terms of any land acquisition, design/engineering, etc.

Something to remember is that none of these projects advance solely on technical merits; they advance at the behest and pleasure of various levels of politicians, particularly congressmen, the mayor, and USDOT appointed bureaucrats. Kruesi's years at US DOT and tight relationship with the mayor were crucial in getting the Ravenswood and Douglas branches rebuilt with New Start money, for example, which is supposedly money for building new transit services (I guess the Douglas was construed as a "New Start" because the baseline would have been the line being mothballed, and Ravenswood was a "New Start" because of additional capacity).

Red Line south extension is a Jesse Jr project, for example. Brown extension to Blue would be a Rahm Emmanuel project. Airport Express and Circle Line were Daley projects.

As for projects that advance on technical merits but without a clear and consistent political "owner," like the Second Avenue Subway... well, we all know the timeline on that one.

Bullseye. Studies show that the transfer penalty is worth 5-15 minutes of in-vehicle travel time, depending on a rider's other trip characteristics. The number of people who would actually see travel time reductions that negate the transfer penalty would be very small. Eliminating slow zones, increasing frequency, and reducing station dwell times would be a more cost-effective way of shortening travel times.

^All the more reason for an all powerful transport czar that lifts strategic transport cheerleading and planning above the heads of alderman and district reps and takes it right to the money. Nice and clean and a whole lot faster... like the goal of CTA rapid transit.

^ Chicago needs its own transit-friendly version of Robert Moses

I know that when I lived in Chicago, there was not one single project that could have aided my commute moreso then the circle line (if built up along Ashland). It would, without a doubt made getting places quickly and rather painless.

only 4 new stations but that's not the main goal of the project. It acts as a circulator and it connects to many existing stations. It's the one thing Chicago area rail transit lacks in comparison to other cities with great systems.

So I've been trying to figure out what's the best way to get from Palatine to Lakeview on mass transit. I can take Metra to the loop and the red line back up, but that takes forever. I can drive to Howard, but then I might as well drive the whole way if I think I can find parking. I can drive to Kimball, but that's not much better.

How long is the Irving Park 80 bus ride from the Metra station to Clark/Sheridan, and how often do buses run? That limits us to Metra hours, but it's car free.

Why not take the X80 from Metra Irving Park to Clark/Sheridan? Should take about 15 minutes. Buses run every 15 minutes or better all day.

But for such a short trip, you're usually better off just taking whichever shows up first, a regular 80 or an X80. The time you save with limited stops is often spent waiting for the limited-stop bus to come.

If you're coming for a ballgame, don't forget about Pace Bus 282 from the Woodfield Transit Center straight to Wrigley.

I would say the biggest gain from the Circle Line would be a new defined boundry for downtown growth within easy reach of transit. Of course in the real world we have WLCO screwing things up, so any future land use changes likely wouldn't be worth the cost of using up our limited alotment of capital funds that could serve more poeple elsewhere in the city.

That's only 60 minutes total transit time, not bad. Thanks.

Has there ever been rough mappings of what that route would look like? I think it would be a great addition but it looks complicated if it were anything other then tunnel boring. There are two expressways in the way, incongruent streets NE of Elston, freight/Metra tracks, and pretty dense housing without many empty lots.

(Nevermind, after looking again I guess I just made it to complicated and the potential route would just turn from the Kimball station west on Lawerence and run the EL over the street or cut and cover. Still crossing the expressway/L/Metra would be challenging I think).

.........I also think it would make sense to connect make a spur into the Brown line connecting the Red Line with the Red Line at Wilson and Brown line to give Red/Blue line true connectivity in the north. If this East/West line could be integrated into a Mid-City Line or make the feasibility of a Mid-City line going heavy rail I am not sure.

If people had to pick up an outer loop like the Mid-City route (with Brown Line and possibility Red Line hook ups) or the Circle Line which would do they think would be more productive?

The management of Yorktown Shopping Center has informed Pace that all bus routes which stop near the lower level of JC Penney may no longer enter Yorktown property after July 31, 2008.

Beginning August 1, the new transfer location will be on Branding, between Oak Grove and Finley in Downers Grove which is west of Yorktown.

I've recently heard chatter in City Hall about how the Circle Line will connect the "up and coming" Wicker Park and Pilsen neighborhoods with Lincoln Park and Lakeview.

Clearly, the people I was talking to are a little clueless about what neighborhoods are being gentrified, but there still seems to be interest in the City in some kind of connection between the brown, pink and blue lines along ashland/north

The two serve such different functions. The Circle Line would improve connectivity between inner neighborhoods and promote more transit-oriented lifestyles close to downtown. It's not popular around here but I still think it would get a decent amount of use, albeit not that much from work trips. I know I would use it a lot, but I probably have unusual travel patterns. As I mentioned before it would also improve service in the State subway.

The Mid-City route (I'm treating this as O'Hare to the tracks along Kenton, then south past Midway, then turning east to the tracks near 75th over to the Red Line) would connect a huge area of mostly low-density neighborhoods and the O'Hare Blue, Green, Forest Park Blue, Pink, Orange, and Red Lines and could be easily the most attractive way to make long north-south trips, and maybe east-west trips currently served by the 79th St bus, the busiest in the system. It would also make it much easier to take transit to O'Hare and might even facilitate O'Hare-Midway transfers as well. All told I'd rather see the Mid-City line, but they're not that comparable--the Circle Line requires two or three relatively short pieces of subway or elevated track laid and the Mid-City line would probably be the longest line in the system, almost all of it new.

^

I think the Mid-City would provide a good primary line for more people than the Circle, but more people would end up using the circle to transfer between lines, and it would be used by people who already use transit - the cicero/pulaski area is developed for cars, it'd take a lot of transit-oriented development to really get people on the trains.

Yeah, but a lot of it is no less dense than some of the neighborhoods served by the outer O'Hare Blue Line, the Orange Line, and the Dan Ryan Red Line, all of which have pretty good ridership. Also don't forget the east-west running section of the proposed Mid-City line, which would almost definitely have high ridership, and the large number of people who would use it to go to O'Hare. It would open up lots of routes that individually might not account for a lot, but together could make it pretty well-used.

Does anyone know if they are still seriously considering a new line along the lake...connecting Soldier Field, the Museums, Navy Pier, and then hopefully in 2016 the Olympic Village and the Stadiums.

I think I had heard they were thinking of doing some kind of light rail system?

True. Honestly, any new line in the city, or even the orange/red/yellow extensions, would get a lot of use.

Ehh, I dunno about that, I have been using Irving Park all summer and any weekday anytime near rush hour Irving Park grinds to a halt and I have a hard time getting across the city on Irving Park in a car in less than 20-25 min. Also, any time there is a Cubs game within 4 hours of the time you want to use the X80, you may as well just go all the way downtown on the Redline and then just back up the Blueline because Irving Park is completely useless on Cubs game days. Not trying to say you are wrong because the X80 and 80 are very quick when there is no traffic, I just freaking hate Irving Park rd because it is the best thing we have to cross the city on the northside and half the time it takes more than an hour to go 5 miles by bus...

Lets say they built in with the plans to connect Old Orchard to Midway Airport, I'll do a run-through of the mid-city line. Starting from Old Orchard, which is still a major transit destination. (I've been taking the buses down there for years, trust me). Here's what it would possibly serve.

-Oakton Community College, downtown Skokie and a connection to the Yellow Line.

-A closer bus connection to Lincolnwood Town Center than Howard street.

-Another connection to Devon Street.

- More convienient connection to Northeastern University.

-Transfer to the Jefferson Park transit center, serving a large number of buses, Blue Line, and Metra.

-Direct service to the the 6 Points shopping area off Irving Park, and an easier bus connection to the Harlem Irving Plaza.

-Service to Schurz HS off Milwaukee Avenue near Addison, and another Polish business district.

-Vibrant Mexican/Puerto Rican business districts at Belmont, Fullerton, Armitage and North, and connections to the Brickyard Mall at Diversey.

-major railyard employement at Chicago/Cierco

-transfer to the Cicero Green Line at Lake, with stops at Madison, Roosevelt, and Cermak (w. a connection to the Pink Line). They might not be that populated, but poor people still use it out of necessity.

- Two block walk from the Little Village district, the 2nd largest shopping district in Chicago after Mich Ave.

- Direct service to the Hawthorne Race Track.

from there on, I agree it does get very spotty, there's mild areas near Archer Park, but its no different than some of the stops the Orange Line serves, which would also be a destination of this line. It also goes through some healthy residential/commercial areas, which could spurn growth. At one point they discussed extending it to Ford City, which would also be huge. I wish they could extend the Green Line Ashland further west. Oh well.

Has anybody taken the Blue Line to O'Hare this week? They've had a bunch of track closures recently and I'm wondering how the ride out there is now and whether it'll make sense for me to take the train to the airport next week.

^ it goes to at least rosemont, but i think it even goes all the way to ohare now. But if it does stop at rosemont, they have 24-hour shuttle buses that will take you straight to the airport from the rosemont stop

speaking of the blue line, i fell asleep and missed my stop at montrose. Wow what a pleasure it is to ride on the new track and ties between montrose and ohare! (it might just be ties they replaced. anyway...). So smooth and fast and [other positive things]. I can only imagine how nice it will be once new train cars start getting delivered

As long as you aren't going when there is a line cut in place (i.e. weekends), the ride is now excellent and quick. About 42 minutes from O'Hare to Clark/Lake, which we haven't experienced in over 2 years I think. Once all construction is done I'd expect this to be down around 40 min.

The O'Hare to Jeff Park trackwork finished a couple of weeks ahead of schedule, and the line reopened in late July. I was surprised, though, by how rough the "renewed" track was. It still bounces around and hunts too badly to read a newspaper.

Now on the topic of new train cars...when in 2009 are they suppose to start arriving. Also since they are only getting around 400 new cars and we have a fleet of somewhere near 1200...does anyone know which lines will get the new cars and which ones will be stuck with fixed up older ones? I assume the Blue line and Red line will definitely get the new cars. Also are there going to be plans to replace the rest of the fleet if everything goes as planned with the first 400 of them? It will look a little silly to have these nice modern looking cars and then have the old dated ones running alongside them!

Blue line will be getting them first. I believe they are going to start testing some of them on the Blue Line before full production starts, last I heard that is supposed to start in early 2009. These cars also have AC motors instead of DC - I'm not sure how they are handling running them on the same rails as DC cars.

I figured that the Blue Line would get them first. Do you know if the plan is to replace all of the train cars in time? Or are they just planning on getting the 400 and then calling it quits? Hopefully they dont wait like 20 years!

I believe the CTA holds options for several hundred more cars beyond the initial order.

Thats good to hear...would hate to see the nice new ones and then have an old one go by right after...just wouldnt look right!!!

CTA doesn't have much info, but I found a little info here .

Ok thanks for the update...

Now with new train cars our public transit will be much improved and compare better with other world class cities. Now we just need to get a light rail or tram-type system added along the lake and we will be set! Haha...that will be the day!

Folks, these are not some kind of magic railcars from the 21st century. They'll look like the 3200s, ride like the 3200s (except worse because of the longitudinal seating), squeal going around curves, rock back and forth on bad track, and stop when "waiting for signals ahead." They won't be able to train with the older cars, as I understand it, but otherwise they're L cars just like the current ones. Picture from Chicago-L.org:

http://www.chicago-l.org/trains/gall...ring-Ext-t.jpg

^ but they are shifting towards AC, and that will make a difference. But metal on metal light rail will never be too good, i suppose

and i can't believe you didn't like the ride on the new stuff on the blue line. I haven't felt a ride that nice since maybe the orange line in a very long time. it was very noticeably better. I'm pretty sure it's not in my head, because I definitely wasn't expecting or predicting it

1. The 3200s actually ride very nice, or at least did before they became overdue for their midlife rehab.

2. The design aesthetic actually will be updated for the new railcars; they will not look just like the 3200s. For the exterior, probably more akin to the newer IRT cars in NYC (albeit still only 2 doors per side), and the interior will, I believe, not have the fake wood trim. Not sure if it's been decided whether the longitudinal seating will be benches or seats.

3. The new cars will have AC propulsion; no more trademark 'L jerkiness. Smooth and whir-y.

O well from some of the renders I had seen they would look a little different on the outside appearance. The front car would have a longated nose to it and the body seemed typical cylindrical form, but not the plane silver cars we have, seemed to be white...but that could just be the renders.

On the Chicago-L.org website they listed a line connecting the Museums campus' and Navy Pier with a possible light rail...is that really a plan to happen? That is exactly what we are in need of!

^ You sure are the bright-eyed optimist.

Looks like you haven't been following this stuff long enough to become cynical & bitter yet. Don't worry, it'll hit you. One day you'll wake up, look at yourself in the mirror and say "damn, none of this shit is gonna happen is it?"

Well if you just think so negatively about things like that all the time then your right...nothing will ever get done.

But if you stay positive and involved then they are bound to get done eventually. Mayor Daley has already said that there are going to be major plans for our transit now after he saw Beijings subways...and found out that they added 8 brand new subway lines once they found out the were hosting the Olympics...and it only costed them 8 billion. Even though thats alot of money...for 8 completely new subways lines that is not that bad! The city of Chicago desperately needs something like that, not even just for the games, but for our city in general. With gas prices rising as they are the ridership on trains will only keep increasing. You cant believe the change in the last year when riding the trains during rush hour. Now sometimes you might have to wait for a couple trains to go by before you can even fit into one! Just shows how we need to improve and EXPAND!

^ Except that Daley ties all of these improvements to the Olympics and when Chicago doesn't get chosen, he'll scrap all of these ambitious plans and go back to not giving two shits again.

Yes I know and I completely get that fact...thats why it is so important to get the Olympic bid...cause you know Daley wont let this city be subject to criticism from an internation market so he would make sure everything is perfect. Without the Olympics I fear we will be stuck with the way things are until the next time we try to get the Olympics!

Or, until we get a mayor who:
1) cares about transit and infrastructure in general as something other than a purely political issue (e.g. a LaGuardia-type)
2) can still wield some level of power despite Chicago's "weak mayor, strong council" governmental system.

#1 can apply to the governorship, as well.

Not an impossibility, but there is no heir apparent to Hizzoner, of course.

It's kind of hard to have a mayor who cares about transit when he NEVER USES IT.

Having said that, I'll also mention that LaGuardia traveled around the city by car. That's why I said "hard" instead of "impossible"

Yellow Line new stations
 

click on link for rest of story

I may be off in my estimates, but the cost of constructing 4 brand new train lines in Chicago (assuming they would be some form of subway) depending on the length, would cost somewhere in the ballpark of 20-30 billion. Remember this is the United States not China.

Picking 4 lines that have been mentioned and their estimated cost:

brown line to jefferson park, would be relatively affordable, yet expensive despite the short length needed to connect the brown and blue, since it would have to be a subway, 1-2 billion

circle line in its current incarnation, would could 5 billion or so? (I think that's what I remember hearing)

mid city transit line, although not a subway, because of its length would be another 5 billion (I remember hearing that it would be roughly the same amount as the circle line)

north shore subway from millenium park through gold coast, lincoln park, ending in lakeview / uptown, probably close to 10 billion

maybe i'm off on some of these estimates, but doing anything close to what Beijing did or is doing, would be a very pricey ordeal.

:previous:

I think those cost estimates are too high as these are not full built out subway lines.

The Brown line extension would be roughly 2.5 miles. Not sure if building elevated over Lawrence would be a realistic option or not.

Depending on the routes and track used the circle line would need is between 2-2.5 miles between Green Line/Ashland and Red/North Ave. The rest is mostly utilization already built infrastructure.

Mid-City transit line is very long but considering its adjacent to a railroad embankment not overly expensive on a per mile basis. A lot would depend on what kind of transit is implemented and if a truckway would be part of it.

northshore subway - cost prohibitive

Wow! A northshore subway! That would be awesome! Finally I'd be able to get to some places in streeterville using the train. It's such a pain waiting for the bus up there. But are people still building subways in this country? I mean, I know NY is, but that's NY. Haven't people in this country decided that subways were too expensive?

The Circle Line would also need an elevated connection running south from the Pink Line to the Orange Line, and possibly from Orange to Red although I don't think there's much reason to do that.

If those cost estimates are in the right ballpark, it sure shows the high cost of subway construction--similar costs between two or three miles of subway + a mile of elevated for the Circle Line and something like 20 miles along an existing embankment for Mid-City!

A reminder of what we are talking about. While I'm leaning towards something that looks more like b. they could have gone a lot further in my opinion. The forward looking face of the car looks grafted onto a 15 year old 3200 series ribbed body style, lending it a confused split personality. Also, while I know that these designs are preliminary, I don't care for the blue. A much smarter scheme would be a platinum/charcoal palette ala the 2000 series.–––––––––––––––––––>


a. http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q...0080123td7.jpg b. http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q...1231440sk8.jpg



Honestly with a few cosmetic modifications, this looks like a car that could be delivered tomorrow, sans the articulated doors of course. Too bad Pullman isn't around anymore. Can we get a multi-millionaire to restart this once great American railcar manufacturer? ––––––––––––––––––––>

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q...o/cta2054b.jpg

I suppose a lot depends on your opinion of fluted stainless, but I always thought the 2000s aged the most rapidly of any series, mostly because of the endcap design. Of course, if they had been able to treat the traindoors differently, it could have been fairly timeless.

http://www.southtownstar.com/news/11...orange.article

I can not think of a singles LESS important project that this one. Talk about bridges to nowhere..

^ I have no clue where Ford City even is. Is it the Old Orchard of the SW side? If so, it can at least serve as a connector to an employment center. Also, Mike Madigan (IL House Speaker) is from the Midway area and since all pork goes through the House Speaker, he gets the first take.

ford city was the original planned terminus of the orange line, its a large commercial center on the southwest side. its a good and needed extension, while you could make arguments that there are more important needs, this is far from a bridge to nowhere. I still think they need to use this extension add a further leg to toyota park and the new retail/entertainment node that is developing around the park, but that's a different discussion.