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JManc Jul 12, 2021 8:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BG918 (Post 9337459)
Because these are people, your fellow Americans. Yeah I’m frustrated that people aren’t getting vaccinated for whatever reason especially those that openly refuse to because of wild conspiracy theories. But to not feel sympathy for people getting sick and dying and being “ok with it”? What kind of heartless asshole are you?

I think we as humans should be sympathetic for any pain and suffering but those who forgo getting vaccinated are rolling the dice on their own health and shouldn't hold the rest of us hostage for wanting to get back to some normalcy.

10023 Jul 12, 2021 9:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BG918 (Post 9337459)
Because these are people, your fellow Americans. Yeah I’m frustrated that people aren’t getting vaccinated for whatever reason especially those that openly refuse to because of wild conspiracy theories. But to not feel sympathy for people getting sick and dying and being “ok with it”? What kind of heartless asshole are you?

Saying we don’t care doesn’t mean we’re hoping that people die, or even not feeling sympathy (in a way, it’s not their fault they are stupid). But we aren’t going to tolerate restrictions, or even inconveniences, in our own lives because these people refuse to have the vaccines they are offered.

kool maudit Jul 12, 2021 9:57 AM

It has literally been a few months since the first COVID-19 vaccines were made available to most people. It will all shake out in due time given the safety and efficacy of the shots.

This moment has a bit of that post-9/11 panic feeling to it. It's understandable, but the big ships are turning, and that will continue. Many people who are reluctant to take action in such a climate will come on board as life resumes.

kool maudit Jul 12, 2021 9:59 AM

The demand for large polities to act in unison in very short timeframes is a potential vector for repressive measures. They just came out, it's the seasonal low cycle for respiratory illness, just....hold your horses!

kool maudit Jul 12, 2021 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twister244 (Post 9337439)
Why should any of us feel sympathy for communities that reject science and have to deal with the consequences?



Whether or not you feel sympathy is beside the point, as public policy doesn't reach that level of personal emotion.

The point is to factor all variables into your equation, including reluctance.

Modelling based on near-total compliance within 6-12 months seems potentially unscientific in and of itself given the access we have to data from past campaigns and drug roll-outs; hesitancy is always a factor.

Pre-scientific approaches, of course, have the advantage of rolling on a much more emotional level where datasets are further broken down into their supposed internal motivations, such that heresy can just be "stamped out" or similar. But of course we are much more tied to data and the experimental process now.

Camelback Jul 12, 2021 1:15 PM

There are a lot of people that have not gotten the jab because they have already had and recovered from covid. Estimates are that 100 million Americans have had Covid. In time, these people will probably get vaccinated. Your doctor will tell you not to get a shot for a few months after a Covid infection. Again, the US is closing in on 70% with at least one shot.

Blacks and Hispanics have been lagging behind Whites and Asians. Rural areas lagging behind urban areas. And the combination of the two.

eschaton Jul 12, 2021 2:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camelback (Post 9337551)
There are a lot of people that have not gotten the jab because they have already had and recovered from covid. Estimates are that 100 million Americans have had Covid. In time, these people will probably get vaccinated. Your doctor will tell you not to get a shot for a few months after a Covid infection. Again, the US is closing in on 70% with at least one shot.

Blacks and Hispanics have been lagging behind Whites and Asians. Rural areas lagging behind urban areas. And the combination of the two.

I have to say I'm really not liking how many people have concluded that any adult who hasn't gotten vaccinated yet is an antivax Trumpist moron, and deserves whatever they get.

Large numbers of blacks and Latinos, along with younger people, still haven't gotten the shot. They will presumably be more persuadable than the Qanon folks.

the urban politician Jul 12, 2021 3:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eschaton (Post 9337649)
I have to say I'm really not liking how many people have concluded that any adult who hasn't gotten vaccinated yet is an antivax Trumpist moron, and deserves whatever they get.

Large numbers of blacks and Latinos, along with younger people, still haven't gotten the shot. They will presumably be more persuadable than the Qanon folks.

^ Yep

But characterizing large and disparate numbers of people with one dismissive label is pretty much what to expect these days

the urban politician Jul 12, 2021 3:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camelback (Post 9337551)
Your doctor will tell you not to get a shot for a few months after a Covid infection.

^ Not me.

I tell my patients who've had COVID (and recovered) to get the shot without delay.

The reason for the recommended delay was a response to a scenario, months ago, when enough vaccine wasn't available. The idea was to allow more vulnerable people to get the shot, which was hard to find at the time. People who'd had COVID were relatively immune so their getting vaccinated was less of a priority.

Now, however, with there being more vaccine than we know what to do with, everybody who's had COVID should get the shot, no delay necessary.

dktshb Jul 12, 2021 3:55 PM

I flew for the first time from SFO to Logan (2 areas with high vaccination rates) and all I can say is the plane sounded like a covid ward. So many (mostly young people) caughing and hacking the entire flight. It was really annoying. They dont check temperatures. So many sick looking and sounding people on that flight.������

BG918 Jul 12, 2021 4:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 9337660)
^ Yep

But characterizing large and disparate numbers of people with one dismissive label is pretty much what to expect these days

Yeah I don't get openly saying "f these people, I hope they die" just because they haven't gotten a vaccine. Disagree with them, fine, I do as well. But these are still people with families that love them.

TWAK Jul 12, 2021 4:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twister244 (Post 9337439)
Am I ok with it? Yes, because they CHOSE not to get vaccinated. You keep missing this point, and it's getting annoying.

Well obviously they chose to not get vaccinated....that's what this whole thing is about, and it's annoying to have to tell you that. Thankfully I saw THE SCIENCE (Fauci) suggest mandatory LOCAL shots :tup:. Follow the science....
Quote:

Why should any of us feel sympathy for communities that reject science and have to deal with the consequences?
What if we live in one of those areas?
Nobody said you have to feel sympathy, and if you don't, then it should be easier for you to treat them as "the other". If they don't matter you shouldn't care so much about their choice, and I have been saying we take that choice away from them. That would hurt their feelings the most.
Quote:

Originally Posted by BG918 (Post 9337746)
Yeah I don't get openly saying "f these people, I hope they die" just because they haven't gotten a vaccine. Disagree with them, fine, I do as well. But these are still people with families that love them.

Yes, I disagree with them but they obviously don't need to die; especially if we can prevent it with one or two shots. What I don't mind doing is stripping their freedom and forcing them to vaccinate, since that's better for them than death.

Vlajos Jul 12, 2021 7:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TWAK (Post 9337812)
Well obviously they chose to not get vaccinated....that's what this whole thing is about, and it's annoying to have to tell you that. Thankfully I saw THE SCIENCE (Fauci) suggest mandatory LOCAL shots :tup:. Follow the science....

What if we live in one of those areas?
Nobody said you have to feel sympathy, and if you don't, then it should be easier for you to treat them as "the other". If they don't matter you shouldn't care so much about their choice, and I have been saying we take that choice away from them. That would hurt their feelings the most.

Yes, I disagree with them but they obviously don't need to die; especially if we can prevent it with one or two shots. What I don't mind doing is stripping their freedom and forcing them to vaccinate, since that's better for them than death.

Wow, you want to force people to get medical treatments they don't want? That is scary shit.

Crawford Jul 12, 2021 7:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlajos (Post 9337996)
Wow, you want to force people to get medical treatments they don't want? That is scary shit.

We do this all the time, right now. Hardly "scary shit".

You want your kids enrolled in school, or participating in many activities? They better have all required vaccinations, a recent physical, etc.

In a civilized society, when you choose to interact with others, society can request things of you if you want the privileges of said interactions. Of course you can reject such privileges, but the alternative is living like a hobo.

TWAK Jul 12, 2021 8:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlajos (Post 9337996)
Wow, you want to force people to get medical treatments they don't want? That is scary shit.

...calling it a "medical treatment" :worship:. Clever.
However, it's just a "simple prick of the skin" and people are gonna have to do it if they want to go to school, travel, see their favorite band, ect. I never claimed to not say scary things too, so idk.

JManc Jul 12, 2021 9:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 9338016)
We do this all the time, right now. Hardly "scary shit".

You want your kids enrolled in school, or participating in many activities? They better have all required vaccinations, a recent physical, etc.

In a civilized society, when you choose to interact with others, society can request things of you if you want the privileges of said interactions. Of course you can reject such privileges, but the alternative is living like a hobo.

That's not forcing people to do anything but placing conditions in order take part in certain activities. Forcing would be unilaterally mandating vaccinations against personal will. No such case exists right now with childhood vaccines.

TWAK Jul 12, 2021 9:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JManc (Post 9338133)
That's not forcing people to do anything but placing conditions in order take part in certain activities. Forcing would be unilaterally mandating vaccinations against personal will. No such case exists right now with childhood vaccines.

Well if you care about the deaths and not forcing people that's ok. It's when people are ok with death but not ok with....hurting the feelings of the unvaccinated.
Like I said though we can get to a point where they are "the other"...and I think that would be with another lockdown. Don't worry though, I'm not saying there will be another lockdown, I just know the threat of it can turn all of you against the unvaccinated.

JManc Jul 12, 2021 9:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TWAK (Post 9338135)
Well if you care about the deaths and not forcing people that's ok. It's when people are ok with death but not ok with....hurting the feelings of the unvaccinated.
Like I said though we can get to a point where they are "the other"...and I think that would be with another lockdown.
Don't worry though, I'm not saying there will be another lockdown, just I feel the threat of it can turn all of you against the unvaccinated.

People smoke, drink, eat fast food and consume copious amounts of sugar and wind up dying from resulting conditions but we still 'allow' free will as we will with those who refuse to get covid vaccines. I'm all for carrot and stick to get more people vaccinated but forcing it is not the solution and would be met with pushback.

TWAK Jul 12, 2021 9:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JManc (Post 9338137)
People smoke, drink, eat fast food and consume copious amounts of sugar and wind up dying from resulting conditions but we still 'allow' free will as we will with those who refuse to get covid vaccines. I'm all for carrot and stick to get more people vaccinated but forcing it is not the solution and would be met with pushback.

Locally there are rules against those, and Fauci did say that he sees a possibility in localized mandates (but not federally). So while not official, the science is pointing to localized mandates. I find it cheesy, but everybody says "follow the science" and Fauci is the science.

Pedestrian Jul 12, 2021 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TWAK (Post 9338144)
Locally there are rules against those, and Fauci did say that he sees a possibility in localized mandates (but not federally). So while not official, the science is pointing to localized mandates. I find it cheesy, but everybody says "follow the science" and Fauci is the science.

There aren't rules "against those". There are rules making those more expensive and regulating WHERE they can be done. But nobody says you can't smoke period or you can't eat sugar or drink sugary drinks or whatever.

The only consumable we still ban totally are mind-altering drugs and those prohibitions appear on the way out.

In this case, since being unvaccinated and therefore potentially a covid "Typhoid Mary" is a danger to everyone with whom you are in contact, I am for severely restricting the activities where the unvaccinated are allowed to participate including workplaces and most indoor group venues. It was one thing when there was nothing anyone could do except wear a mask to limit their potential as a coronavirus spreader but now there is and I have no sympathy for those who won't take advantage. Let them stay home or go outside and that's about it.


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