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-   -   California High Speed Rail Thread (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=180558)

ardecila Apr 14, 2023 5:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 9917932)
There's one Amtrak line that has real ridership. So "one of the busiest Amtrak routes" is a meaningless statement. It's saying there's more than one train a day. Also, Phase I isn't serving Oakland, so who cares? If it did, it would make sense.

I agree that the ridership is objectively not great, but the San Joaquins actually doesn't get much of its ridership from the Bay Area or Sacramento. You could cut off both of the branches after Stockton and it wouldn't lose much. The top city pairs along the route mostly start and end in the same Central Valley cities you're doubting. Sort of counter-intuitive.

https://web.archive.org/web/20201112...es/3477/39.pdf
This is the 2019 data, so no Covid effects...

hughfb3 Apr 14, 2023 5:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craigs (Post 9917966)
You greatly overstate what California's nascent high speed rail system means to the U.S. as a whole. The vast majority of the nation was never going to have high speed rail regardless of California's experience. And if there was a viable high speed rail system in some other state that was certain to get built but for California's laggardly construction timetable and budget overruns, then name it. California is the only state trying to build high speed rail today only because other states are not trying at all.

To add to this, I would also argue that the only reason Brightline West is going to be a true High Speed Electrified Rail is BECAUSE California is already building a High speed rail to tie into... unlike the stand-alone Florida High-er speed diesel Brightline rail

jmecklenborg Apr 14, 2023 6:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hughfb3 (Post 9918449)
To add to this, I would also argue that the only reason Brightline West is going to be a true High Speed Electrified Rail is BECAUSE California is already building a High speed rail to tie into... unlike the stand-alone Florida High-er speed diesel Brightline rail

It needs to be electric to travel through the planned Burbank-Palmdale tunnel or tunnels, aside from the fact that electric passenger trains have much better performance characteristics aside from a higher potential maximum speed.

The Brightline Florida tracks can't be Class 9 (like CAHSR and Las Vegas) without full grade separation. That's not possible without building an almost continuous 70-mile viaduct from Miami north to Palm Beach.

Innsertnamehere Apr 14, 2023 7:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg (Post 9918512)
It needs to be electric to travel through the planned Burbank-Palmdale tunnel or tunnels, aside from the fact that electric passenger trains have much better performance characteristics aside from a higher potential maximum speed.

The Brightline Florida tracks can't be Class 9 (like CAHSR and Las Vegas) without full grade separation. That's not possible without building an almost continuous 70-mile viaduct from Miami north to Palm Beach.

yes, but the part along 528 out to Orlando could have been pretty easily.

As it is, isn't most of the streetch between Miami and Palm Beach limited to 79mph anyway? It's not even a particularly fast train along there at all. It's big speeds are heading east to Orlando and even those are relatively limited.

mattropolis Apr 14, 2023 11:04 PM

Build HSR website
 
The High Speed Rail construction website has been recently updated .
https://buildhsr.com/

The interactive map now shows which sites have been completed, and which are still under construction.

Overall it seems to be an improvement. Hope they can keep it updated!

TWAK Apr 15, 2023 7:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg (Post 9918512)
It needs to be electric to travel through the planned Burbank-Palmdale tunnel or tunnels, aside from the fact that electric passenger trains have much better performance characteristics aside from a higher potential maximum speed.

The Brightline Florida tracks can't be Class 9 (like CAHSR and Las Vegas) without full grade separation. That's not possible without building an almost continuous 70-mile viaduct from Miami north to Palm Beach.

Speaking about that, CalTrain electrification can also count for CAHSR construction since the trains will be using the line.
Not just in the CV...
Quote:

Originally Posted by mattropolis (Post 9918822)
The High Speed Rail construction website has been recently updated .
https://buildhsr.com/

The interactive map now shows which sites have been completed, and which are still under construction.

Overall it seems to be an improvement. Hope they can keep it updated!

What's up with phase 2 out in So Cal? They haven't decided on a route yet?

markb1 Apr 15, 2023 7:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TWAK (Post 9919242)
What's up with phase 2 out in So Cal? They haven't decided on a route yet?

Correct. They are expending zero effort phase 2 at this point. Their hands are full with phase 1, which is Anaheim to SF.

MAC123 Apr 15, 2023 9:04 PM

I mean why would they? I don't wanna be pessimistic as I love this project, but they don't even have the money for phase 1.

markb1 Apr 15, 2023 9:22 PM

Yeah, it will absolutely be a Big F-ing Deal when phase 1 is complete! They don't need any phase 2 burdens to slow it down.

AndrewK Apr 16, 2023 8:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattropolis (Post 9918822)
The High Speed Rail construction website has been recently updated .
https://buildhsr.com/

The interactive map now shows which sites have been completed, and which are still under construction.

Overall it seems to be an improvement. Hope they can keep it updated!

And not all of those look to be up to date either. For example, the Avenue 12 Grade Separation (which is listed as “active”) was described as “almost complete” as of December 2020, and the uploaded photos from April 2022 show it finished.

markb1 Apr 16, 2023 11:17 PM

This is the best information I can find about status of CaHSR's various grade separations and such:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constr...ackage_details

And, in fact, it shows Ave 12 complete and open to traffic.

jmecklenborg Apr 17, 2023 1:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markb1 (Post 9919255)
Correct. They are expending zero effort phase 2 at this point. Their hands are full with phase 1, which is Anaheim to SF.

If I remember correctly, they can't start on Phase 2 and until Phase 1 is physically complete (and possibly operating), per the language of the 2008 ballot issue.

I also seem to recall that 4th & King counts as "San Francisco", so they don't necessary need to have the tunnel to the Transbay Terminal complete and in operation.

markb1 Apr 19, 2023 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg (Post 9919990)
If I remember correctly, they can't start on Phase 2 and until Phase 1 is physically complete (and possibly operating), per the language of the 2008 ballot issue.

I also seem to recall that 4th & King counts as "San Francisco", so they don't necessary need to have the tunnel to the Transbay Terminal complete and operation.

On the second point, I think the downtown extension is actually responsibility of the Transbay Joint Powers Authority. So makes sense.

MAC123 Apr 19, 2023 1:39 AM

Yeah I don't think CAHSR cares all that much whether they stop at 4th and King or STC. Sure it would be nice, but as long as they stop in SF they're fine.

hughfb3 Apr 21, 2023 2:20 AM

**Somewhat off topic and not an update**
Brightline just revealed their Orlando station which is a partnership between the airport authority that built the station and Brightline who outfitted it with their aesthetic and services. Check out their forum. It looks amazing and the services offered are what most impressed me about this recent reveal. I’ve visited the Miami Central Brightline Station a few times and it is fantastic.

I think it will be great to have Brightline West open in California by 2028 to be a friendly competitor that might help to give officials an immersive experience of what quality service and amenities in high speed rail stations and aboard trains can be like. Maybe Metro’s Union Stations amenities and quality of service will improve. Looking forward to seeing the Rancho C Station in person in less than 5 years.

craigs Apr 21, 2023 2:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hughfb3 (Post 9924537)
**Somewhat off topic and not an update**
Brightline just revealed their Orlando station which is a partnership between the airport authority that built the station and Brightline who outfitted it with their aesthetic and services. Check out their forum. It looks amazing and the services offered are what most impressed me about this recent reveal. I’ve visited the Miami Central Brightline Station a few times and it is fantastic.

I think it will be great to have Brightline West open in California by 2028 to be a friendly competitor that might help to give officials an immersive experience of what quality service and amenities in high speed rail stations and aboard trains can be like. Maybe Metro’s Union Stations amenities and quality of service will improve. Looking forward to seeing the Rancho C Station in person in less than 5 years.

Wait, is Brightline in Florida real HSR? I thought it ran at-grade and wasn't electrified.

MAC123 Apr 21, 2023 2:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craigs (Post 9924544)
Wait, is Brightline in Florida real HSR? I thought it ran at-grade and wasn't electrified.

Neither of those things make a train system HSR or non HSR (though they may be prerequisite infrastructure for a good HSR system)

All that matters is the speed, and no Brightline in Florida is not fast enough to be HSR.

hughfb3 Apr 21, 2023 3:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craigs (Post 9924544)
Wait, is Brightline in Florida real HSR? I thought it ran at-grade and wasn't electrified.

Florida is not High speed rail, but the California Brightline will be high speed electrified rail that will share track with CAHSR whenever it gets completed. Brightline west will have the same level of amenities and services as Florida. It will be completed several years before CAHSR reaches LA

tech12 Apr 21, 2023 4:09 AM

The Drone Zone Flyovers youtube account, which had by far the most extensive documentation of the project, was hacked and deleted. That youtube channel must have contained like 90% of the internet's video documentation of the project. It would be nice if the CA HSR authority could get their own PR in order, which would mean that something like this wouldn't matter.

Things get hacked for various reasons, but I wouldn't be surprised if HSR opponents were behind this. It must be frustrating for some people, for there to be constant evidence that the project is alive and well.

craigs Apr 21, 2023 4:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAC123 (Post 9924546)
Neither of those things make a train system HSR or non HSR (though they may be prerequisite infrastructure for a good HSR system)

All that matters is the speed, and no Brightline in Florida is not fast enough to be HSR.

Sorry, I meant to refer to at-grade crossings specifically, which definitely impact how fast trains are allowed to run. According to Wikipedia, FRA regulations set speed limits for tracks with grade crossings as follows:
  • For 110 mph or less: Grade crossings are permitted. States and railroads cooperate to determine the needed warning devices, including passive crossbucks, flashing lights, two quadrant gates (close only 'entering' lanes of road), long gate arms, median barriers, and various combinations. Lights and/or gates are activated by circuits wired to the track (track circuits).
  • For 110 to 125 mph: The FRA permits crossings only if an "impenetrable barrier" blocks highway traffic when a train approaches.
  • Above 125 mph: No crossings will be permitted.

TWAK Apr 21, 2023 5:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tech12 (Post 9924594)
The Drone Zone Flyovers youtube account, which had by far the most extensive documentation of the project, was hacked and deleted. That youtube channel must have contained like 90% of the internet's video documentation of the project. It would be nice if the CA HSR authority could get their own PR in order, which would mean that something like this wouldn't matter.

Things get hacked for various reasons, but I wouldn't be surprised if HSR opponents were behind this. It must be frustrating for some people, for there to be constant evidence that the project is alive and well.

Probably from out of state too...
:rolleyes:
Quote:

Originally Posted by hughfb3 (Post 9924588)
Florida is not High speed rail, but the California Brightline will be high speed electrified rail that will share track with CAHSR whenever it gets completed. Brightline west will have the same level of amenities and services as Florida. It will be completed several years before CAHSR reaches LA

Having true HSR at grade would be absolutely dangerous.

Busy Bee Apr 21, 2023 12:54 PM

Do we actually know it was hacked? I wouldn't let your imagination get too wild. I hate to say it but it could be just as likely that some sort of legal conflict with the CHSRA themselves led to a cease and desist so the author(s) just closed the channel and it will be relaunched with all the content back up soon. Something similar happened not long ago to a subway channel that I like where it just disappeared for a day or two and then was back up...so who knows?

mattropolis Apr 21, 2023 3:08 PM

Very sad that the Drone Zone flyover account is gone. hopefully they can be back online too. I wonder if something similar happened to the Four Foot YouTube account, which is still on YouTube, but inactive.

Busy Bee Apr 21, 2023 5:28 PM

^ His videos are still up. I think he was just a hobbiest youtuber and has been too busy workin for the RR to make much new content. Regarding the Drone Zone channel I really can see a scenario where the Authority thought it was just a little too close to trespassing, and when comparitevly better the update coverage was than their own channel msy have threatened them with legal action of some kind. I really hope I'm wrong abpit that though xause thats a really discouraging thought that CHSRA would be so petty. Is "hacking" a YT account and deleting everything even a thing?

tech12 Apr 21, 2023 6:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busy Bee (Post 9924734)
Do we actually know it was hacked? I wouldn't let your imagination get too wild. I hate to say it but it could be just as likely that some sort of legal conflict with the CHSRA themselves led to a cease and desist so the author(s) just closed the channel and it will be relaunched with all the content back up soon. Something similar happened not long ago to a subway channel that I like where it just disappeared for a day or two and then was back up...so who knows?

I'm just going off what I read here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/cahsr/comme...nt_was_hacked/

Quote:

"Verified with them through Patreon. They are working with YT to reclaim their account."
Hopefully it gets resolved. There are some youtube channels that have had the same thing happen that are back up and running, but I know of others where they had to start a new channel instead.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busy Bee (Post 9925129)
Is "hacking" a YT account and deleting everything even a thing?

Yeah, accounts get hijacked relatively often. They delete stuff, put their own stuff there, etc. Take a look:

https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...account+hacked

Busy Bee Apr 21, 2023 9:30 PM

That's messed up. Why do people suck so bad?

hughfb3 Apr 22, 2023 5:21 AM

Brightline West has just released renderings of the Las Vegas station. More California Station renderings to come soon

https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/...d-2765817/amp/

Busy Bee Apr 22, 2023 12:26 PM

Strange renderings. The first two look like a really nice new zoo exhibit and the third one looks a little bit too much like the stripped down bare bones station architecture that they've produced in Florida.

CrazyCres Apr 22, 2023 3:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busy Bee (Post 9925708)
Strange renderings. The first two look like a really nice new zoo exhibit and the third one looks a little bit too much like the stripped down bare bones station architecture that they've produced in Florida.

I think the 3rd render is a old one

hughfb3 Apr 22, 2023 4:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busy Bee (Post 9925708)
Strange renderings. The first two look like a really nice new zoo exhibit and the third one looks a little bit too much like the stripped down bare bones station architecture that they've produced in Florida.

The 3rd one I saw a few weeks ago when they showed initial Rancho station concept. This is the view looking away from Rancho station to the parking garage. The publication may have incorrectly placed it in the picture thread. The other 3 renders are newly released.

In Florida, the Miami Central Station is a grand concept that looks the same as renderings in reality. I’ve been there a few times as I have friends that live in the apartments above the station and am still impressed every time I go. The Palm Beach, Ft Lauderdale and Boca stations are a scaled back bare bones version of the big station in Miami. I’m assuming same will happen in CA/NV, the grand stations on the bookends will be high concept and the middle ones will be scaled back from there.

**Side note… The above stations apartment’s amenities deck that runs the entire roof of the station is ridiculous, imagine having the entirety of Salesforce transit center’s rooftop park all to one apartment complex.**

JDRCRASH Apr 22, 2023 6:16 PM

According to that website, the site for the LV station is gonna have a bunch of room for transit-oriented development.

I have to wonder, though, if the height for said development would be somewhat limited because of the proximity to the airport.

ardecila Apr 22, 2023 10:15 PM

Yeah that Vegas station is interesting. Tons of what looks like park space…. As Busy Bee mentioned it seems like a zoo or theme park. Otherwise, park space doesn’t really generate much revenue and costs a ton to maintain (especially in the desert). I’m guessing some of that is a fiction just to pretty up future development sites that will stay empty dirt until filled with buildings.

I’m not opposed to the design though! Reminds me a bit of Patsaouras Plaza at LA Union Station on a bigger scale.

It’s also interesting they decided to sink the building underground rather than elevate the tracks or build the station mezzanine on Level 2. Maybe a climate thing to reduce the need for air conditioning?

markb1 Apr 22, 2023 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busy Bee (Post 9924734)
Do we actually know it was hacked? I wouldn't let your imagination get too wild. I hate to say it but it could be just as likely that some sort of legal conflict with the CHSRA themselves led to a cease and desist so the author(s) just closed the channel and it will be relaunched with all the content back up soon. Something similar happened not long ago to a subway channel that I like where it just disappeared for a day or two and then was back up...so who knows?

Before the channel was deleted, it was renamed to "crazy protest videos" or something like that, and posted a couple videos in line with the name. Then all the old videos got deleted, or at the least the ones I've checked.

My take it someone was trying to take over DZ's modest subscriber count to try to get some videos to go viral. Then YouTube got involved and took the channel down. But that's just conjecture.

markb1 Apr 22, 2023 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hughfb3 (Post 9924537)
**Somewhat off topic and not an update**
Brightline just revealed their Orlando station which is a partnership between the airport authority that built the station and Brightline who outfitted it with their aesthetic and services. Check out their forum. It looks amazing and the services offered are what most impressed me about this recent reveal. I’ve visited the Miami Central Brightline Station a few times and it is fantastic.

I think it will be great to have Brightline West open in California by 2028 to be a friendly competitor that might help to give officials an immersive experience of what quality service and amenities in high speed rail stations and aboard trains can be like. Maybe Metro’s Union Stations amenities and quality of service will improve. Looking forward to seeing the Rancho C Station in person in less than 5 years.

While I do wish Brightline West success, I'm skeptical that it will be open in 2028. Just like CaHSR, it will be dependent on funding.

tech12 Apr 23, 2023 8:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markb1 (Post 9926070)
Before the channel was deleted, it was renamed to "crazy protest videos" or something like that, and posted a couple videos in line with the name. Then all the old videos got deleted, or at the least the ones I've checked.

My take it someone was trying to take over DZ's modest subscriber count to try to get some videos to go viral. Then YouTube got involved and took the channel down. But that's just conjecture.

Hopefully he can get it back, and doesn't have to start a new channel and re-upload everything.

And as I mentioned... get your own PR in order, CA HSR authority! One random youtube account getting hacked shouldn't lead to a situation where half of the publicly available video documentation of the project is lost lol.

202_Cyclist Apr 25, 2023 11:21 AM

It's good to see that unlike the LA - San Francisco high-speed rail, this hasn't become another cultural war wedge issue yet.


Las Vegas-to-California bullet train gets bipartisan backing


By Ken Ritter
AP

"LAS VEGAS (AP) — A bipartisan congressional group from Nevada and California asked the Biden administration Monday to fast-track federal funds for a private company to build a high-speed rail line between Las Vegas and the Los Angeles area.

All six of Nevada’s elected federal lawmakers and four House members from California sent the letter to U.S. Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg. They said they’re on board with a proposal from Brightline West to spend more than $10 billion to lay tracks along the Interstate 15 corridor.

Traffic jams on the interstate often stretch for 15 miles (24 kilometers) near the Nevada-California line as motorists head home after weekend or holiday travel to Las Vegas..."

https://apnews.com/article/bullet-tr...ba49304cb4fe20

TowerDude Apr 28, 2023 7:15 AM

Amtrak's route to Las Vegas should take priority for federal funding over Brightline West.

TowerDude Apr 28, 2023 7:25 AM

Las Vegas should be as difficult to get to as possible anyway ... to discourage further growth of the city.

homebucket May 1, 2023 2:58 PM

Quote:

Design Revealed For Central Valley High Speed Rail Stations

https://sfyimby.com/wp-content/uploa...ph-777x439.jpg

BY: ANDREW NELSON 5:30 AM ON MAY 1, 2023

New illustrations have been revealed for the design template of four stations along California’s high speed rail in the Central Valley. Foster + Partners and ARUP are responsible for the project. The Central Valley line is part of the first phase of construction for the highly-anticipated infrastructure project to connect Los Angeles to San Francisco.

Stephan Behling, Head of Studio, Foster + Partners, shared in a press release about the new design that “after delivering our systemwide vision plan, we are now delighted to be working with Arup on detailed designs for the network’s first four stations.” Illustrations show each station will be shaded curved metal panels perforated with a webbing design and shaped with triangular patterns.

Groundbreaking occurred in early 2015, and construction is actively underway on the tracks, separations, viaducts, underpasses, and overpasses from Madera through Fresno to Bakersfield. The 171-mile Merced-Bakersfield line also called the Interim Initial Operating Segment is expected to start initial electrified rail line testing in 2028 and opening between 2030 and 2033.
https://sfyimby.com/2023/05/design-r...-stations.html

homebucket May 1, 2023 2:59 PM

And the renderings:

https://sfyimby.com/wp-content/uploa...-Kilograph.jpg

https://sfyimby.com/wp-content/uploa...-Kilograph.jpg

https://sfyimby.com/wp-content/uploa...-Kilograph.jpg

https://sfyimby.com/wp-content/uploa...-Kilograph.jpg

https://sfyimby.com/wp-content/uploa...-Kilograph.jpg

https://sfyimby.com/wp-content/uploa...-Kilograph.jpg

https://sfyimby.com/2023/05/design-r...-stations.html

SFBruin May 1, 2023 3:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TowerDude (Post 9930690)
Las Vegas should be as difficult to get to as possible anyway ... to discourage further growth of the city.

Lol.

Busy Bee May 1, 2023 4:48 PM

Those look great but weren't those images released a couple years ago?

jmecklenborg May 3, 2023 3:17 AM

I hadn't watched this guy's videos since the beginning of the pandemic. Somehow he now has over 4 million followers. He takes a cheap shot at California HSR at 7:01: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLr-Drxh8jk

Busy Bee May 3, 2023 4:30 AM

The opinion of anyone calling it "a high speed rail" means nothing to me.

Busy Bee May 6, 2023 2:06 PM

https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local...274970806.html

Busy Bee May 12, 2023 1:17 PM

Video Link

202_Cyclist May 12, 2023 2:08 PM

It is nice to see more progress and this investment in efficient, modern, infrastructure creating good jobs.

California High-Speed Rail Authority heralds competition of massive Cedar Viaduct

CBSNews.com
May 11, 2023

https://assets2.cbsnewsstatic.com/hu...-viaduct-2.jpg
Photo courtesy of CBSNews.com

"After years of artist renderings, the California High-Speed Rail Authority finally has a concrete symbol of the work being done building the line through the Central Valley.

It's called the Cedar Viaduct and the 3,700-foot viaduct will take trains travelling at 200-plus mph over State Route 99, Cedar and North avenues in Fresno..."

https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco...cedar-viaduct/

ardecila May 12, 2023 5:29 PM

LOL - "heralds competition"? Showing a low-quality rendering, instead of a photo?

The quality of news coverage continues to sink to new lows.

SFBruin May 12, 2023 8:27 PM

Nice viaduct.

TWAK May 12, 2023 8:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 9942652)
LOL - "heralds competition"? Showing a low-quality rendering, instead of a photo?

The quality of news coverage continues to sink to new lows.

That's a photo from the video, which is a drone shot.
Video Link

-the marketing could be better, but that would just piss off opponents as "wasting money".


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