SkyscraperPage Forum

SkyscraperPage Forum (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/index.php)
-   Transportation (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=25)
-   -   CHICAGO: Transit Developments (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101657)

Nexis4Jersey Oct 1, 2015 3:40 AM

Englewood Flyover, CREATE Project

Video Link


75th Street Corridor in Chicago

Video Link

wierdaaron Oct 1, 2015 4:05 AM

Woah, that would divert metra traffic away from Union Station and to Lasalle station? Awesome! That would lessen the clusterfuck at Union and pump a lot more people into downtown right into the South Loop, Chicago's latest up-n-comer.

Plus, continuing to speed up the Amtrak routes between St Louis and Michigan could make it more competitive with megabus.

ardecila Oct 2, 2015 11:36 PM

Well, we're only talking about 4500 riders on SouthWest Service. That's comparable to a moderately busy CTA L stop in the neighborhoods - like Armitage on the Brown Line. However, I don't think it's enough to "change the landscape" in the South Loop. The Rock Island has about 13,000 daily boardings at LaSalle, so it would be roughly a 33% increase at that station.

wierdaaron Oct 2, 2015 11:39 PM

I'll take it!

Busy Bee Oct 3, 2015 1:14 AM

Today, excellent blog GreaterGreaterWashington discusses cta infill stations here:

http://greatergreaterwashington.org/...fill-stations/

BVictor1 Oct 3, 2015 7:51 AM

http://www.transitchicago.com/news_i.../lawrmawr.aspx

Quote:

The Chicago Transit Authority (CTA), as project sponsor to the Federal Transit Administration (FTA), proposes to construct the Lawrence to Bryn Mawr Modernization Project. The project would expand capacity by reconstructing and modernizing approximately 1.3 miles of the existing rail line track from Leland Avenue on the south to near Ardmore Avenue on the north. Four stations, the Lawrence, Argyle, Berwyn, and Bryn Mawr stations, would be expanded, modernized, and made accessible according to the Americans with Disabilities Act. Learn more about the project.

In April, the CTA and the FTA published an Environmental Assessment (EA) which analyzed the effects of implementing the project on the physical, human, and natural environments. The CTA held a public hearing for the Lawrence to Bryn Mawr Modernization Project on May 14, 2015, and established a 30-day formal public comment period to take input from the public on the findings of the Lawrence to Bryn Mawr Modernization Project EA.

Based on a review of the EA and all public comments received, the FTA issued a Finding of No Significant Impact (FONSI) for this project and the CTA published notice of issuance on October 2, 2015. The FONSI documentation includes a summary of responses to comments received, as well as suggested mitigation measures to minimize environmental impacts of the project, including impacts to historic resources. Read a copy of the FONSI here.

The approval of the FONSI means that the CTA has identified all potential impacts and ways to minimize and mitigate those impacts, and that based on that information, the FTA finds there will be no significant impacts from implementation of the project. The CTA anticipates RPM construction could begin as early as 2017.

jpIllInoIs Oct 3, 2015 4:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busy Bee (Post 7185194)
Today, excellent blog GreaterGreaterWashington discusses cta infill stations here:

http://greatergreaterwashington.org/...fill-stations/

So which infill is next for Chicago? Division St Brown line or Madison/Monroe Pink line?

ardecila Oct 3, 2015 9:42 PM

There hasn't been much public discussion of either station. If I had to guess, it would be Division Brown Line. No doubt the developers of Atrium Village and the Cabrini area will throw their weight behind it. Walter Burnett is on record in support, hopefully he will step up his efforts. Ultimately Emanuel would have to directly support it to move it forward. CTA has plenty of other station improvements - Washington/Wabash right now, and State/Lake needs to be rebuilt next.

In contrast, nobody in positions of power seems to want a United Center stop on the Pink Line. The Pink Line only runs 4-car trains at a low frequency, and I don't think CTA wants to majorly increase operating costs on the Pink Line to accommodate UC events when the Blue Line already stops within walking distance of the stadium.

What is far more likely is a rebuilt and expanded station at Medical Center - CTA has already held a discreet design competition for this station. CDOT has also started planning a Damen streetscape project that will widen sidewalks between the UC and the Eisenhower, and the new Malcolm X college and Blackhawks training facility should liven up that dead stretch of Damen as well to improve the pedestrian experience.

denizen467 Oct 7, 2015 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orulz (Post 7179752)
A tunnel under the Brown and UP-NW at an elevation of about 614' would be low enough to cross under the brown/UP-NW which are about 626' and high enough to cross over southbound lanes of the Edens/Kennedy junction which are about 595' there,

Curious, but where are you finding these sea level elevations - are you eyeballing them from some generic public map source, or quoting something made for/by the railroads or the City? Technically there is no such thing as a single sea level even if you net out tides; the surface elevation of the sea varies around the Earth based on gravitational differences from the location's underlying crust, and based on the Earth being slightly wider than it is tall, not to mention ocean currents and long term changes in sea and air temperatures. The above might be of limited relevance if we were a coastal city, but Chicago is 600 miles from the Atlantic (at Baltimore, if counting the Chesapeake is valid) but only 740 miles from Hudson Bay, so is there any specific coastal location (or average from several) whose sea level is chosen? I can't imagine that infrastructure engineering documents needing to last centuries would be keying off of anything but a local datum, like the one used in the Loop. Or is there some new reference datum devised based on GPS satellites (even though it would be only a fictional sea level)?

Mr Downtown Oct 7, 2015 2:34 PM

US Geological Survey maps show elevations from a particular "mean sea level" benchmark (the National Geodetic Vertical Datum of 1929 or the North American Vertical Datum of 1988), and local surveyors and engineering firms generally tie in to that datum. For precise construction drawings, it's traditional in Chicago to instead express them in terms of "Chicago City Datum." That's a theoretical low-water lake level from the 19th century, but in practical terms has been measured from a downtown benchmark (mounted on the Northern Trust Building) for more than a century, and in really practical terms is these days merely derived by converting from the accepted mean sea level.

emathias Oct 7, 2015 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpIllInoIs (Post 7185550)
So which infill is next for Chicago? Division St Brown line or Madison/Monroe Pink line?

Personally, I'd also vote for an Orange Line stop at either 18th or at Cermak, or a Pink Line station at Roosevelt.

Longer-term, stations at Ashbury on the Yellow Line, Western and Damen on the Green Line Lake branch, Michigan or State, and Racine on the Green Line 63rd branch, 31st on the Green Line south trunk, and Laramie on the Blue Forest Park branch should be considered if those areas stop declining and show movement toward rejuvenation. Then we can talk about extending the Green Line back to Jackson Park and west to Western Ave.

Randomguy34 Oct 7, 2015 11:50 PM

^ If the Obama Library gets built in Washington park and brings a lot of development to the area, then I wouldn't be surprised to expect the CTA to bring back the 58th or State Street Station on the South Side Elevated/Englewood Branch

ChickeNES Oct 8, 2015 4:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randomguy34 (Post 7190202)
^ If the Obama Library gets built in Washington park and brings a lot of development to the area, then I wouldn't be surprised to expect the CTA to bring back the 58th or State Street Station on the South Side Elevated/Englewood Branch

I kind of doubt they'll rush to rebuild 58th since it was only demolished 3 years ago.

Randomguy34 Oct 8, 2015 5:00 PM

Of course they won't build those stations immediately, even if development comes quickly, because it will be a while before the population catches up in order to justify a new station. Again, this is IF it gets built in Washington Park. I don't think the CTA would be as interested in re-extending the Green Line to Jackson Park if the Obama library lands there, even after a population increase.

orulz Oct 9, 2015 1:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by denizen467 (Post 7189196)
Curious, but where are you finding these sea level elevations - are you eyeballing them from some generic public map source, or quoting something made for/by the railroads or the City? Technically there is no such thing as a single sea level even if you net out tides; the surface elevation of the sea varies around the Earth based on gravitational differences from the location's underlying crust, and based on the Earth being slightly wider than it is tall, not to mention ocean currents and long term changes in sea and air temperatures. The above might be of limited relevance if we were a coastal city, but Chicago is 600 miles from the Atlantic (at Baltimore, if counting the Chesapeake is valid) but only 740 miles from Hudson Bay, so is there any specific coastal location (or average from several) whose sea level is chosen? I can't imagine that infrastructure engineering documents needing to last centuries would be keying off of anything but a local datum, like the one used in the Loop. Or is there some new reference datum devised based on GPS satellites (even though it would be only a fictional sea level)?

Cook County Viewer: http://cookviewer1.cookcountyil.gov/...mapviewer.html

Click the basemap button, choose "Elevation Contour Map." It gives elevations with 1-foot granularity. Not sure regarding its precision nor what the elevations are in reference to.

Presumably these maps are sourced from some combination of USGS data and satellite/LIDAR readings, with a generous helping of hand-tweaking thrown in for good measure.

orulz Oct 9, 2015 2:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emathias (Post 7190096)
Personally, I'd also vote for an Orange Line stop at either 18th or at Cermak, or a Pink Line station at Roosevelt.

18th has been bandied about somewhat but I think 16th would be better since
(1) Both Orange and Green can stop
(2) Equidistant between Roosevelt and Cermak Green Line stations (18th skews south and the walkshed would overlap significantly with Cermak)
(3) Connection is possible to the St Charles Air Line

Peronally, I see the best use of the St Charles Air Line being the southward extension of the proposed Clinton-Larrabee subway, to McCormick Place, Hyde Park, and South Shore/South Chicago, but the latest proposal for this line that has bubbled to the surface is "Chicago Crossrail" which is a worthwhile proposal that would also benefit from a transfer at 16th.

Now, 16th is not as important of a street as 18th, and there is no bus on 16th, but then again there is no bus on this stretch of 18th either.

My admittedly unscientific measurements indicate that this is possible, with barely any property takings, but you would either have to close the 13th street incline (not desirable due to flexibility/resiliency) or rebuild the northbound Orange Line flyover of the Green Line a couple hundred feet south.

map.

There I go again wasting time thinking about fantasy projects that are completely divorced from reality.

ardecila Oct 9, 2015 6:15 AM

Rahm is in DC trying to convince USDOT to send some money for Union Station.

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/artic...oreUserAgent=1

It would probably be in the form of a loan, but the state has authorized a TIF overlay district for all property within 1/2 mile of Union Station... Presumably the city could pay back the Feds with the TIF money over time (the same legislation also authorizes long, strip-like TIFs for the Red/Purple project, Red Line to 130th, and Blue Line Forest Park).

Normally the city could just issue bonds based on the TIF money, but our credit rating is not exactly stellar right now and the interest paid would be phenomenal. The Feds are basically the only people willing to extend credit on decent terms, but even they seem to be demurring (for the moment).

It's premature to talk about what improvements would be included, it will depend on the amount of the loan. The Union Station Master Plan is the guiding document, which is a shame because nothing in the plan fundamentally changes the station from being a rathole.

-----

On a side note, after begging and pleading the Architecture Foundation, it looks like they have included
Union Station on the list of Open House sites for this year. The

emathias Oct 9, 2015 2:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orulz (Post 7191682)
18th has been bandied about somewhat but I think 16th would be better since
(1) Both Orange and Green can stop
(2) Equidistant between Roosevelt and Cermak Green Line stations (18th skews south and the walkshed would overlap significantly with Cermak)
(3) Connection is possible to the St Charles Air Line

Peronally, I see the best use of the St Charles Air Line being the southward extension of the proposed Clinton-Larrabee subway, to McCormick Place, Hyde Park, and South Shore/South Chicago, but the latest proposal for this line that has bubbled to the surface is "Chicago Crossrail" which is a worthwhile proposal that would also benefit from a transfer at 16th.

Now, 16th is not as important of a street as 18th, and there is no bus on 16th, but then again there is no bus on this stretch of 18th either.

My admittedly unscientific measurements indicate that this is possible, with barely any property takings, but you would either have to close the 13th street incline (not desirable due to flexibility/resiliency) or rebuild the northbound Orange Line flyover of the Green Line a couple hundred feet south.
...

I think there'd be more property impact than you think, but I agree that using the Air Line would be desirable. In a magical wonder world, this is what I think would happen in conjunction with that (I figure all those could be added for less than "The Big Dig" cost in today's dollars).

1) Clinton subway using the Air Line to get to McCormick
2) The 1968 subway plan from West Loop to Streetville and McCormick
3) Route the Pink Line along 16 and the Air Line to join the NS portion of item 2
4) Circle Line to serve the Polk and added Roosevelt and Madison stops on the current Pink Line route

As such:
http://www.mathiasen.com/lines_map.png

Randomguy34 Oct 9, 2015 2:17 PM

Wow, your proposed map for that area looks exactly like mine. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought of rerouting the Pink Line.

ardecila Oct 9, 2015 3:55 PM

I still think the best use of the St Charles Air Line is for mainline rail, because:

A) the south lakefront corridor is ideal for intercity and/or high speed rail, passing through neighborhoods of significant density, significant long-term growth potential, and major regional anchors like McCormick Place and U of Chicago.

B) the SCAL is the most economical way to connect the south lakefront corridor to Union Station

C) the South Loop is now built up enough that there isn't room for both mainline rail and CTA tracks in the SCAL corridor


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:29 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.