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Mr Downtown Sep 25, 2010 6:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baronvonellis (Post 4993626)
Are they rebuilding or changing all the viaducts as well?

I'm not sure what you mean by "viaducts." Every place where the railroad crosses above a street is getting a new through-girder bridge to span the street.

I'm unclear on the rationale for the wider track centers, but I suspect it's a UP systemwide standard. So they're insisting on it here even though there are no curves where freight trains might meet and tilt due to speed, and even though it's unlikely they'll ever carry enormous windmills or pressure vessels through here on flatcars.

denizen467 Sep 25, 2010 7:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busy Bee (Post 4993670)
^Wishful thinking, but maybe they're making room in between the tracks for future catenary;)?

Does catenary require more spacing?

Mr Downtown, as far as carrying wide-load cargo, presumably they could just do it at nighttime and have all the clearance they want without worrying about passing trains?

The $64k question here is, spreading the tracks is largely meaningless unless ... they're going to do it all the way to Zion or Kenosha or wherever. So, are there plans, beyond the theoretical, to rebuild further dozens of miles?

Mr Downtown Sep 25, 2010 10:10 PM

Catenary would only require more spacing if you put the line poles between the tracks.

Day or night, it's absurd to ever again expect any freight operations along the Shore Line, at least south of Highland Park. The line into Ogilvie is a cul-de-sac. Any freight to or from Proviso moves via the New Line. That's what makes me think the UP is just saying "oh, there's no reason for it; it's just our rule." Same as they're doing with the C&EI down in Roseland.

Baronvonellis Sep 25, 2010 10:33 PM

"Viaducts" I mean the elevated hilly embankment that the tracks sit on. I don't know what that's called. Are they changing that part or just the tracks? I still don't quite understand why they are doing this for an 8 year inconvenience. It's hardly a temporary thing. I think they should wait for more money if they can't do it quicker with the resources they have. At that rate it would take 100 years for them to redo all the track to Milwaukee. I kind of like the old bridges. They look really cool with the old rivets, just need a paint job or something.

Are the bridges really in that bad a shape? What's really going on with this project? There's thousands of these bridges all over Chicago that look the same. If so why aren't they replacing more of them if it's a safety hazard. I still don't get it.

VivaLFuego Sep 25, 2010 11:11 PM

Of course there are capacity constraints elsewhere as well, but it's a shame the new viaducts aren't being built to allow for future (re-)installation of a third track.

ardecila Sep 25, 2010 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baronvonellis (Post 4993826)
"Viaducts" I mean the elevated hilly embankment that the tracks sit on. I don't know what that's called. Are they changing that part or just the tracks? I still don't quite understand why they are doing this for an 8 year inconvenience. It's hardly a temporary thing. I think they should wait for more money if they can't do it quicker with the resources they have. At that rate it would take 100 years for them to redo all the track to Milwaukee. I kind of like the old bridges. They look really cool with the old rivets, just need a paint job or something.

Are the bridges really in that bad a shape? What's really going on with this project? There's thousands of these bridges all over Chicago that look the same. If so why aren't they replacing more of them if it's a safety hazard. I still don't get it.

The embankments are just fine. They're not retained like the Red/Purple Line is, and the weeds and trees prevent most erosion. They really don't need a whole lot of maintenance, and they're good pretty much forever, unless they begin to subside.

It's the bridges that need replacement, because they're decaying and because replacing the bridges en masse is the easiest way to add clearance to the roadways below.

Since Metra is switching to a through-deck girder design, the plate girder between the two tracks will stick up 5-6 feet, and it will be fairly wide. This may require an increase in the track spacing to make sure the girder doesn't intrude on the train's clearance envelope.

denizen467 Sep 26, 2010 3:59 AM

^ I think I understand what you mean though I'm not sure what a "plate" girder is. But more relevantly, is the upshot that they will build no viaducts having supporting columns between roadway lanes or between roadway and sidewalk?

Also, how do you know all this stuff ?

Mr Downtown Sep 26, 2010 3:30 PM

^I don't think there are currently any viaducts on this line with center columns (except the special situation at Lincoln/Addison). Can you think of one? As far as I can tell, the current bridges all are through-deck girders, so the track centers wouldn't need to change on that account. I would imagine that the new bridges will have slightly deeper girders on the sides and will span from abutment to abutment without the piers next to the sidewalk as you currently have at Leland.

OhioGuy Sep 26, 2010 3:41 PM

Would love to see them do something to the Addison/Lincoln bridge to make it less overbearing. It's a hulking unattractive behemoth.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3403/...0a186d85_o.jpg

Busy Bee Sep 26, 2010 4:15 PM

Paint would be a start, but that must be WAY tooo hard and expensive.http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/images/smilies/koko.gif

Baronvonellis Sep 26, 2010 5:33 PM

It looks like the bridges south of Montose already have girders that stick up higher and don't have column supports on the side walk. Perhaps, they are newer.

Irving Park and Clybourn have column supports in the middle of the street.

denizen467 Sep 26, 2010 8:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busy Bee (Post 4994265)
Paint would be a start, but that must be WAY tooo hard and expensive.http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/images/smilies/koko.gif

There is an interesting solution to this situation in Evanston at the 5-way intersection of Ridge, Green Bay, and Emerson: After trouble with graffiti, the sides of the giant viaduct were covered with fabric. Presumably it's a quasi-temporary solution, but it really was carried out rather well.

the urban politician Sep 27, 2010 2:53 PM

Quote:

CTA Red Line sets sights on South Side extension

Some excerpts:

Mixed-use retail and affordable-housing complexes, grocery stores and pharmacies, banks, bookstores, ice cream shops, parks, local activity centers and many other ideas were offered during a "visioning session" for the Red Line extension held this month at St. John Missionary Baptist Church, which is several blocks from the proposed 116th Street station. During the meeting, participants worked with architects and other experts.

"The community is looking for a good store, a bakery, a shoe shop, a place to buy fruits and vegetables and a neighborhood bank — all things that people in other parts of the city take for granted," said Phyllis E. Palmer, who lives near 130th Street and attended the session at St. John.

../..

The CTA has moved up the proposed Red Line extension to 130th Street to its No. 1 priority among major capital improvement projects.

../..

The Red Line extension represents precisely the kind of project Congress prefers to fund. It fits the bill as a true "new start" project, not simply a rebuilding of an existing line. It provides much-needed transportation options to low-income, minority communities that historically have been bypassed when it comes to investment in infrastructure.

Plus, the economic possibilities of transit-oriented development offer the chance to turn around blighted neighborhoods, while attracting middle-income workers from the suburbs to spend money at businesses likely to sprout up near planned park-and-ride facilities along the extended Red Line, officials said.

The project is considered a strong contender for major funding in the next multiyear federal transportation spending bill that Congress will begin working on after the November elections.

Visit link for full article
^ Good news here. However, after seeing what is planned near the 55th street stop (Food4Less, gas station) I am becoming less and less hopeful of any "transit oriented development" despite what these architectural planners are presenting at these "visioning sessions", as described in the article.

tintinex Sep 27, 2010 5:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhioGuy (Post 4994242)
Would love to see them do something to the Addison/Lincoln bridge to make it less overbearing. It's a hulking unattractive behemoth.

I would love something like this in Chicago

http://home.rebstech.com/wp-content/...do--renfro.jpg

bnk Sep 27, 2010 5:40 PM

http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/...-downtown.html

September 27, 2010

Daley hopes Asian investors will bet on high-speed rail to downtown

Share | Posted by Hal Dardick at 12:11 p.m.

Mayor Richard Daley returned from his trip to Asia convinced foreign investors might put up the money to pay for fast, high-end rail service from O’Hare International Airport to downtown.

“I think they are very interested — China, Korea, Japan, the Middle East — yes,” Daley said today when asked if business people he met in China and South Korea might fund the effort. “There are many, many interests. You have to have a high-speed train from the international airport downtown. What that would do is that would rebuild our commercial market and our hospitality industry.”

Before leaving on the trip, Daley said looking for rail financing for the effort was one reason he was headed overseas

....

Daley repeatedly noted that it took him seven minutes to get from the airport to near downtown in Shanghai. “Just think, it’s seven minutes, they can get almost to downtown,” he said. “Seven minutes. That is unbelievable.”

...




Quote:

http://www.suntimes.com/news/cityhal...092710.article

Daley: Chicago needs high-speed train from downtown to O'Hare


September 27, 2010

BY FRAN SPIELMAN City Hall Reporter

Mayor Daley is back from his week-long trade mission to China and Korea more convinced than ever that Chicago needs a high-speed train from downtown to O’Hare Airport and that there’s enough interest from foreign investors to make it happen.

“They’re all interested. … Everybody’s interested. ... They want to design it. They want to build it, operate and maintain it … with people working here,” Daley said Monday ...


...

In 2008, the CTA mothballed plans for express trains to O’Hare and Midway amid more than $100 million in cost overruns on the super-station that was supposed to be built downtown beneath Block 37.

At the time, Daley said he would search for a private partner to complete the station.

His latest plan — announced just weeks before he chose political retirement over the quest for a seventh term — is far more ambitious.

It calls for private investors to complete the station, lay the separate track down the Kennedy Expy. needed to make the trains express and to run the system in exchange for premium fares.

On Monday, Daley noted that his entourage hopped on a high-speed train at the Shanghai airport and arrived at a stop just outside downtown seven minutes later.

“You have to have a high-speed train from your international airport to downtown. ... That will rebuild our commercial market and our hospitality industry,” he said.

“Great cities have [a] high-speed train from the airport downtown. ... Once you make that contact from the airport downtown, it keeps building your downtown businesses, jobs and taxes, and that’s what you have to have.”

Busy Bee Sep 27, 2010 5:41 PM

And how is NY's High Line like the active commuter railroad bridge at Addison & Lincoln?

Busy Bee Sep 27, 2010 5:47 PM

Sounds like Daley has seen the light and will realize there is no way you can accomplish rapid high speed operations by a ridiculous passing system on the Blue Line. The airport train requires non-CTA ROW and Stansted Express style operations.

the urban politician Sep 27, 2010 5:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnk (Post 4995344)
Daley repeatedly noted that it took him seven minutes to get from the airport to near downtown in Shanghai. “Just think, it’s seven minutes, they can get almost to downtown,” he said. “Seven minutes. That is unbelievable.”

^ :multibow :thrasher:

That would be so incredible if Chicago were to achieve anything close to this

Marcu Sep 27, 2010 6:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busy Bee (Post 4994265)
Paint would be a start, but that must be WAY tooo hard and expensive.http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/images/smilies/koko.gif

I believe that this bridge is slated to be replaced in the next 5 years. It's part of the ongoing UP-N bridge replacement project being discussed. In other words you won't see any paint.

Marcu Sep 27, 2010 6:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 4995100)
^ Good news here. However, after seeing what is planned near the 55th street stop (Food4Less, gas station) I am becoming less and less hopeful of any "transit oriented development" despite what these architectural planners are presenting at these "visioning sessions", as described in the article.

The best we can hope for is proper zoning so that eventually something transit oriented can be built. At this point, there is not enough spending power in those communities to be able to dictate any kind of building form or land use standards.


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