A picture is worth a thousand words. Thanks for that. So in essence this Red Line Extension should really be paired with RTA/Metra Coordination rather than the typical operating silos.

With eye on CTA’s next big thing, Red Line South extension, Lightfoot breaks ground on next phase of North Side overhaul
Chicago Sun-Times | By Fran Spielman Jun 2, 2021, 4:33pm CDT

CTA’s Massive Reconstruction Project For Red And Purple Lines Includes New Stations, Tracks
By CBS 2 Chicago StaffJune 2, 2021 at 6:33 pm
• Video Link

Does anyone know how the track replacement is going to work? Will they tear down the embankment on the east and completely rebuild it? And how do you do that without damaging the west side? Sheet pile wall?

It’s going to be really impressive to watch. Here is a good Instagram I found with a view of the Bryn Mawr site:
https://instagram.com/brynmawrcta_st...dium=copy_link

Here is a diagram of Phase 1. Looks like they will only shave off the crown of the existing embankment, and they will need to chip out full-height sections at each pier of the new structure. The girder spans are around 100' so around 6-7 piers per block. They will also chip out full height sections where required for station entrances.

I don't think there will be much need for a retaining wall/sheet piling along the centerline except at stations and a little bit at each street crossing since they are replacing the old abutments along each sidewalk. Outside of those areas, there isn't much height difference, they can probably just slope the soil.

https://i.imgur.com/VDS00XP.png

Phase 2 is simpler since the piers will be offset from the existing west retaining wall - for this stage they will just park a caisson drill on top of the embankment and drill from there, no removal needed.

https://i.imgur.com/zeDRAUX.png

Man those things are gonna be graffiti central. I hope Cta thought of that.

Yeah probably. The remains of the embankment will form a bunch of block-long "islands". CTA is supposed to secure them with fencing but that's never kept graffiti artists out before. It might be easier to just plant a bunch of bushes so the graffiti artists don't get big unbroken canvases.

*snort*

I'm pretty sure it was meant in the sense of "con artists".

From someone who used to participate in my earlier years...trust me... If there's a will, there's a way.

Nice video update of the Belmont flyover.

• Video Link

Question:

Would you vote for a significant city tax increase ($500 million per year or more) if the money was dedicated to transportation projects? Yes or no.

No, city government is already too costly and we have massive pension debt to get under control. Any tax increase should be solely dedicated to reducing debt.

^ Absolutely I would vote for new revenues. It would depend on the details though. I think the sales tax is already overburdened, any higher and it will continue to suck business activity out of outlying neighborhoods. It is just one more reason why the South and West Sides are food and retail deserts, we should not make this problem any worse.

On the other hand I think congestion pricing is much needed especially on the expressways (incl. LSD) and the central area. Use the revenue to fund 20-minute service on all Metra lines; this is the cheapest and fastest way to extend high quality transit to areas that don't have it, at least in Cook County. Also roll out speed cameras on a much wider basis, including expressways. Put 3/4 of the camera revenue into a lockbox for transportation purposes, and the other 1/4 into a lottery for drivers that don't have any violations. In order to sell this to voters you'd probably need a specific list of projects like Measure R in LA.

More transit TIFs tied to specific projects might be a better way to scare up revenue in the city without raising already high taxes (which is likely to be unpopular).

The irony is that it must be easier to get things built in areas with fewer riders. Start trying to weave rail through more densely populated areas and deal with more land acquistiion, nimbyism and engineering challenges. Instead, we end up taking the path of least resistance.

^ And least utilty

I agree that the city and state should both raise taxes to get the pension debt under control and I was sorry when the graduated income tax was voted down last fall. But I don’t think either voters or aldermen would approve a tax increase for the pension debt. Unfortunately, I think it will take some kind of crisis to get Springfield and City Hall to deal with this.

On the other hand, people will vote to raise taxes for transportation. Voters in LA have approved a series of tax increases, the last of which was in Nov 2016 and approved by 71% of the voters. The LA tax increases are funding an $80 billion, 30-year transportation infrastructure plan. And last fall voter in Austin voted to raise taxes to pay the city’s share of a $7.1 billion transit plan, including a subway through downtown. The difference between transportation municipal pensions is that people see tangible benefits to a transit plan; they see benefits that will make both the city and their own lives better. With pensions, however, people don’t see payments to fund pensions as making their lives or the city any better. A lot of people fell like the teachers (for example) can go to hell.

Now LA ran a very good promotional/marketing campaign to convince people vote for the tax increases. And if Chicago did the same, I think people would probably approve it.

Secondly, I’m assuming that the feds would pay for half of a transportation plan. A plan to spend $60 billion over thirty years would require $1 billion a year from the state/city. My argument for allocating more of the state’s transportation budget to Chicago is this: Areas of the state that are growing need to spend more money on infrastructure than areas that aren’t growing. And downtown Chicago is the only large area of the state that’s growing.

We’re not going to get any money from the feds or the state to pay for city’s municipal pensions

Thirdly, if the city raised its share of $60 billion over 30 years with no borrowing and if that supported a 300,000 increase in downtown jobs, the city would be in a much improved financial position.

I agree with you regarding both the sales tax and new revenues. In addition to what you mention, I’d add an increase in the city ride sharing tax. But even with these new revenues, we’d still need a large tax increase.

The best would be a city income tax; say 1% on incomes between $50,000 and $150,000 and 2% above that. But that would require approval from Springfield and maybe even an amendment to the state constitution. So that leaves real estate taxes. It’s hard to imagine Chicago aldermen passing a large real estate tax increase, but if voters approved it in a referendum, then I think they’d do it.

I also agree with you regarding the revenue going into a dedicated lockbox, so that could only be spent on approved transportation projects. The lockbox would be required to have an annual audit.

deleted

I’m not opposed to TIFs in all cases but when a city’s credit rating is junk, I think the responsible thing to do is to raise taxes rather than continue to borrow more and more money. And Chicago is probably the most irresponsible city in the country when it comes to its finances.

TIFs have been called an “innovative method of financing”. But selling the parking meters and the skyway were called innovative when those deals were done and look at them now.

And if TIFs are such a good way to finance infrastructure, then why does Chicago use them far more than other cities. Do LA and Austin like raising taxes? No. They want major upgrades to their transit system and they want to be responsible in how they fund it. LA and Austin are investing in the future. Through its use of TIFs, Chicago is mortgaging its future.

Finally, I think that a $60 billion, 30-year plan funded by tax increases would make Chicago more, rather than less, attractive as a place to do business.

I'm not sure what your point is. Any form of financing for capex will involve some form of borrowing, but you need it to be tied to a dedicated revenue source to access the best interest rates. That revenue source can be anything, whether it is TIF, sales tax, etc.

LA and Austin are both far more desperate for transportation improvements than Chicago. We have congestion problems and crumbling infrastructure, but our population is stagnant and our existing rail system is vast. LA would love to have the rail system we do, and they are set to get it, joining only DC and SF as the only cities to successfully build a comprehensive regional transit system post-WW2.

Chicago politicians can't necessarily count on support for taxes no matter how noble the goal. Voters are fed up and have zero trust in government. This is why TIFs became so popular - they are a backdoor property tax increase, not just in the TIF district but citywide. Politicians make it seem like only the users pay - the people living in the TIF district - but really everyone's taxes need to go up to make up for the shortfall, since the overall tax levy remains the same before and after the creation of a TIF.

You obviously don't understand the problem.

I googled "what US city has the worst traffic" and the first thing that came up was a US News article titled "The 10 Most Congested Cities in the US". Chicago was ranked #2. LA, #6.

I think the reason for Chicago' congestion has to do with the downtown job growth. In 2010, there were 479,000 jobs in downtown Chicago. In 2020, there were 631,000 - an increase of 152,000 jobs in ten years.

How many downtown jobs will be created over the next 20 years? Conservatively, let's say 200,000. Is our transportation system adequate to handle another 200,000 people commuting downtown every day? No. It's nowhere close. And nobody has anywhere near a realistic plan to deal with this.

OK, if we've added 150,000 jobs downtown in the last 10 years, why have CTA and Metra ridership fallen over that same period?

CTA: https://www.civicfed.org/sites/defau...railtrends.png
Metra: https://metrarail.com/sites/default/...standalone.pdf (Page 2)

It the jobs numbers are true (I don't doubt there was growth, but seems suspect to me that the country's 2nd largest CBD grew by 33% in just one decade) then it suggests people are finding ways to get to work that don't involve transit. That doesn't mean they're driving, either - plenty of people use rideshare, bike, Divvy, walk to work, etc.

We have also not seen a large expansion in parking supply downtown that would enable people to drive. If anything, the parking supply's been going down due to redevelopment.

The region has a lot of challenges, and improving commutes for rich downtown workers isn't near the top of anyone's list. To the extent that regional leaders care about transportation, it is focused on solving other problems. CTA's president wants to build flashy projects on the South Side to bring jobs and investment. Toni Preckwinkle wants to make the existing transit system more equitable and usable on the South Side. Lori Lightfoot doesn't seem to care about transportation issues. Suburban leaders want road widenings or extensions of Metra into the cornfields. The governor does not have a strong vision for transportation beyond shoveling more money into roads. Etc etc. Who will champion this?

Actually Toni Preckwinkle did support Transit Future a few years back which was exactly this kind of proposal, even if it kind of withered... as much as I find her a deeply weird person (unsettling even) she might be the person who could champion a big transit initiative. BUT no way that happens while her mortal enemy Lightfoot is mayor. Maybe we should recruit Phil Washington to move back to Chicago and run for mayor...

Ardecila:

First, I apologize for being snippy in my previous post.

The source for my job numbers is an annual report titled “Where Workers Work”, prepared by the Illinois Department of Employment Security. Here are the reports for 2010, 2015 and 2020. Comparing 2015 to 2020, downtown jobs grew by 68,000 or 13,600 per year - a little lower than my previous ten-year number of 152,000 or 15,200 per year, but still very strong. Based on these numbers, I’ll stick with a conservative estimate of 200,000 new downtown jobs over the next 20 years.

To check my numbers, go to page 30 of each report and add the numbers for CBD and Outer Business Ring. For example 210,014 plus 421,743 equals 631,757 total downtown jobs in 2020. And please post whatever thoughts you have.

I think uber/lyft are responsible for a huge share of traffic problems in downtown. I guess I should check to see if the city has posted new data and update some of the charts I made a while ago, in the nebulous future where I have time to do that...

I imagine a lot of people now live and work downtown so walking is likely up.

Thankfully, there will eventually come a time when the pension debt finally starts declining. For better or for worse, that will happen when the elderly pensioners start dying off.

Given the ridiculous engrainment of the pension system into the Illinois Constitution, there's not much that can be done with this massive albatross around our financial neck, short of a municipal bankruptcy. Hopefully we can somehow keep things afloat until the situation I just described starts occurring.

Aaron (Glowrock)

^ Something very much can be done. The Constitution can be amended.

The albatross is not the pension debt, it's the political special interests who prevent the leaders that they control from doing the right thing for the public.

The pension debt is being treated by some as if it's an absolute thing--sort of like a star, a planet, or an asteroid. It's not: it's a human abstraction. We created it through a bunch of documents and made a monumental miscalculation--all we need is to modify those same documents to correct the blunder. That's all that is needed to fix this problem.

Yes, this has been part of the trend of declining transit use, but is it the primary cause or just a sideshow? Uber and Lyft are now charging close to the real cost for trips now that they aren't being subsidized by investors, so their usage should fall quite a bit and maybe transit ticks back up. But it will be impossible to separate out that effect from the long-term effects of Covid and rise of working remotely.

Yep, this is surely part of the answer also. But with transit usage falling even before Covid and downtown growth chugging along regardless, maybe further investments in a downtown-centric transit network aren't the best use of scarce funds. Or at least, that seems to be the reason why our leaders do not have the same urgency about transit systems that LA, SF, NYC, etc have.

Personally I do not have much optimism about the potential for new transit service to decongest highways. First, that line of thinking centers drivers instead of transit users. Second, transit is most appealing when there is severe congestion to discourage driving. Third, a lot of the people on the road simply can't use transit. Semi trucks, contractors, people that need to visit multiple sites for their job, etc. Strong transit ridership comes from growing the kinds of jobs that are compatible with transit - basically any job with a fixed place of employment, concentrated at high densities.

Finally some movement on the long-promised State/Lake project... yet they still don't include a direct connection to the Red Line. :facepalm:

• Video Link

^ Still confused how this is costing $180 million dollars. That's almost the same price as the new 15th St Red Line subway station, which has to deal with more infrastructure complications.

In other great news, Metra is piloting all-day hourly frequencies on ME, RID, & BNSF! 30 min frequencies for UP-N between downtown and Evanston! Some of these routes will have 15 min or better frequencies during rush hours!
https://metrarail.com/about-metra/ne...turns-pandemic

For that kind of money we shouldn't have to exit the paid area to transfer. SMH.

They should park a couple of these bad boys out front:

https://chuckmanchicagonostalgia.fil...-sign-1958.jpg
_

Ugh that's infuriating.

Imagine something absurd and ridiculous as one continuous escalator from the platform, traveling down the center of state street median directly into the depths of the red line platform. Like a 60' travel depth. There's your instagram shot right there. Chicago's most important and visible escalator, right out front of the marquee.

I'm very glad they added an outbound frequency that works perfectly for people who want to get to UChicago at 9 am. Now if they just filled in that inbound gap at 57th street between 6:01 pm and 6:43 pm I'd have nothing to ever complain about :).

60' is about right. That's basically what Boston is planning for their Red-Blue Connector. It's not that crazy of an idea.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...?1623422416372

Do a pair of escalators (and elevator) from the Inner Loop (south elevated) platform down to the Red Line. Then put in a transfer bridge right next to it for people coming from the Outer Loop.

Our very own archguy has an article on ChicagoYimby with lots of great pictures of the new State and Lake Station, and a great breakdown of funding sources:

https://chicagoyimby.com/wp-content/...M--777x782.jpg

https://chicagoyimby.com/wp-content/...ng-by-SOM-.jpg

https://chicagoyimby.com/wp-content/...ng-by-SOM-.jpg

https://chicagoyimby.com/wp-content/...ng-by-SOM-.jpg

https://chicagoyimby.com/wp-content/...ng-by-SOM-.jpg
(All images from SOM via ChicagoYimby)

https://chicagoyimby.com/2021/06/ren...-the-loop.html

I think it looks fantastic.

Looks awesome! Can't wait to get some photos through the canopy of the skyline and birdshit!

Okay I have to honestly say their plan to re-use that section of the historic canopy inside the new glass canopy like that looks killer.

I'm guessing SHPO is requiring something like that. Usually when you see a historic nod like that it has been required by some preservationist bureaucrat.

It's a creative idea to add some visual interest to the fare controls. But the whole point of this design is the openness, the preserved canopy compromises that. It makes the overall design weaker, not stronger. I honestly think it would be nicer to delete it and just have unobstructed sight lines through the platform area and up/down State St.

I can see your argument, but I think it will be fine.

Any reason why posts were deleted here?

I merely said if Chicago insists on keeping its Metro elevated in the cities central buisness district then all stations and the tracks themselves should look as sleek and nice as what is rendered there. As opposed to what it looks like now

I’ve long wanted the downtown portions of the L to be painted similarly to how Wabash was painted several years back.

That is the plan... not all of downtown, but the Loop itself and up to/including the river bridges which are already the "bordeaux" color. The Wabash section was funded as a beautification project, meaning CTA did not pay for it. I'm guessing they will get around to the other sides of the Loop whenever the current paint job starts to fail.

It looks like the State/Lake project will include repainting of the structure along Lake St, at least from Wabash to Dearborn.

CTA has been repainting the section of Brown Line thru River North. It was a light gray-green but they have been painting with a new coat of tan paint so they are not committed to doing bordeaux outside of the Loop:
https://goo.gl/maps/VggCCnvm2H6AZ6YQA

Regarding the tan color and to a lesser extent the Bordeaux red color being used on the L structure, I've never understood why the resistance to going really dark much in the same way that so many exposed joist/rafter ceilings in commercial/retail spaces or even residential basements are painted dark to "make all the mess go away" by obscuring the assortment of conduit, plumbing and additional bracing structure just sort of disappear into shadow, especially in a low light/down lit environment.

As someone who has actually set down and read the entire NYCT elevated structure repainting RFP guidelines .pdf for potential contractors, I know there is actually a lot of science behind the choice of paint for structures, not just a color coatings fade resistance but a slew of very specific prep and application requirements to assure, ultimately the taxpayer, that the applied point will last as long as possible. The MTA in NY had a high profile fail several years ago when the red paint job on the Hell Gate Bridge started to fade terribly within a couple years I believe and it still looks like crap. I'm sure they learned a few things about that choice and are doing everything they can to prevent it, though I understand there was some claim by the company that supplied the paint that it was the contractors fault of something, I dunno.

Anyways, this gets me back to just a general desire to see some elevated structure in Chicago painted out in a really snazzy sophisticated dark shade of something. A really dark evergreen green, a charcoal or this years "color of the year" "Urbane Bronze"... the kind of shades that would go a long way in obscuring the quite unattractive utility underbelly of the structure. And after saying all that, I'd give it all up to see the L structure painted Swamp Holly Orange:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/47/5b...027867c983.jpg
_

What if the CTA painted their lines the actual color of the rail line?

So the Red line is red, Green line is painted green, etc. And lines that run multiple colors are painted a mix of colors by section (Red for 100 feet, then Brown for 100 feet, etc). Too tacky?

Probably about as much community resistance as painting it Swamp Holly Orange:haha:


Strong yes.

I'm sure you already know, most of the stations are already done this way. Interestingly, this has led to the now-Pink Line stops being accented in blue.

^ Not just the stops, I mean the actual structures that carry the tracks