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-   -   California High Speed Rail Thread (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=180558)

Pedestrian Mar 1, 2020 1:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by urban_encounter (Post 8846283)
Stop using logic in determining where HSR should get built first.

Mostly these decisions can't be about logic. They have to be about money--how much they have and how they could get more. Both metro areas--LA and SF--are, at worst, muted in their opposition (it mainly comes from suburban homeowners who don't want high-speed trains zipping through their communities). The serious opposition to the project, and not unimportantly to both spending the bond money already passed and possibly appropriating more, comes from the CV. There's nothing to be gained by catering to people who are already sold on it.

202_Cyclist Mar 13, 2020 2:40 PM

Virgin Trains completes land purchase for Apple Valley station
 
Virgin Trains completes land purchase for Apple Valley station


By Martin Estacio
Victor Valley Daily Press
Mar 11, 2020

"APPLE VALLEY — A high-speed train from the High Desert to Las Vegas may be one step closer to fruition after Town Council members announced the close of escrow on 284 acres in north Apple Valley.

The land — the site of a proposed train station near Dale Evans Parkway and Interstate 15 — was purchased by Virgin Trains USA, Council member Kari Leon said during a meeting Tuesday.

“That’s a commitment. The money’s in the bank,” Leon said..."

https://www.vvdailypress.com/news/20...valley-station

202_Cyclist Mar 13, 2020 2:47 PM

240 for acres for the station seems like a lot of land. It sounds like Virgin is also going to develop the surrounding land into housing.

https://www.treasurer.ca.gov/comm-ex...trains-usa.pdf

LAsam Mar 13, 2020 3:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 8846848)
There's nothing to be gained by catering to people who are already sold on it.

I'm not so sure they're still sold on it.

sammyg Mar 13, 2020 9:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist (Post 8860651)
240 for acres for the station seems like a lot of land. It sounds like Virgin is also going to develop the surrounding land into housing.

https://www.treasurer.ca.gov/comm-ex...trains-usa.pdf

How much room would they need for train storage and maintenance facilities?

TWAK Mar 13, 2020 9:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 8846845)
Both ends require massive, expensive tunneling. I don't think they had enough money to do it.

I think they started in the CV for 2 reasons:

1. It's flat and they could build a lot of track miles for the least money;

2. They were hoping to tamp down the Republican opposition by giving their constituents the first service and a chance to see how nice it could be to be able to zip up and down the CV in minutes.

Wikipedia says it's a $12.4 billion cost for 171 miles in the central valley... how much would it cost in other parts of the state? 1 billion per mile? They had to do it this way

LAsam Mar 13, 2020 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TWAK (Post 8861180)
Wikipedia says it's a $12.4 billion cost for 171 miles in the central valley... how much would it cost in other parts of the state? 1 billion per mile? They had to do it this way

Sure, but will we ever get the remainder? If not, what was it all for?

craigs Mar 13, 2020 11:00 PM

This belongs in the other thread, as this is not CAHSR but rather a private project not part of the State of California's planned system.
Quote:

Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist (Post 8860643)
Virgin Trains completes land purchase for Apple Valley station


By Martin Estacio
Victor Valley Daily Press
Mar 11, 2020

"APPLE VALLEY — A high-speed train from the High Desert to Las Vegas may be one step closer to fruition after Town Council members announced the close of escrow on 284 acres in north Apple Valley.

The land — the site of a proposed train station near Dale Evans Parkway and Interstate 15 — was purchased by Virgin Trains USA, Council member Kari Leon said during a meeting Tuesday.

“That’s a commitment. The money’s in the bank,” Leon said..."

https://www.vvdailypress.com/news/20...valley-station


Busy Bee Mar 14, 2020 12:18 AM

Yeah it's probably time Virgin Xpresswest or whatever it is they're going to eventually call this (CHSRLV lol) has its own update thread now that they seem to be getting closer to breaking sand.

jmecklenborg Mar 18, 2020 6:45 AM

Luckily California applied much of its recent gigantic budget surpluses to its rainy day fund and to the state pension fund. The state currently has far more in its rainy day fund - roughly $20 billion - than it has spent so far on high speed rail:
https://www.gov.ca.gov/2019/08/16/ci...credit-rating/

aquablue Mar 21, 2020 7:29 AM

White elephant. Ancient tech will be superseded by Virgin One hyperloop tech anyway. This thing is going from one one=horse=town to another and is a colossal waste of money. Might as well scrap it now and plan for a better solution down the road. This thing will never reach LA. Hyperloop all the way boys, it's coming. sorry for breaking your heart Mecklenborg, but Musk wins this time.

Busy Bee Mar 21, 2020 1:27 PM

Hyperloop foamers should remind themselves that most covers of Popular Mechanics have never come to be. I fully expect Hyperloop to be in that category. Too costly investment for too little utility. Simple as that. Steel wheel steel rail high speed rail is the way to go with maglev justified in a scattered few heavily travelled nonstop corridors. There's a reason we all aren't flying around like George Jetson - it's preposterous, impractical and just plain stupid. I feel the same way about Hyperloop.

jmecklenborg Mar 26, 2020 2:13 AM

Construction continues throughout the Central Valley despite the virus-related work disruptions in other types of work:
https://sf.streetsblog.org/2020/03/2...nder-covid-19/

aquablue Apr 2, 2020 4:20 AM

This thing has little chance of being more than a stub track for lumbering diesels, plodding from one no-name-town to another, and hardly used too. The sight of beautiful high speed tracks and an Amtrak on it would be like a sumo wrestler on figure skates.

aquablue Apr 8, 2020 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg (Post 8874156)
Construction continues throughout the Central Valley despite the virus-related work disruptions in other types of work:
https://sf.streetsblog.org/2020/03/2...nder-covid-19/

The only thing they are constructing is a track that will serve only as an Amtrak shuttle for a few folks moving between two depressed cities. Until TRUMP signs off on the whole deal, there will be no HSR in California and no HSR trainsets will be rolling down those pretty new tracks. Sad, btu tTrue

Busy Bee Apr 8, 2020 1:35 PM

Man, where to begin...

Car(e)-Free LA Apr 10, 2020 2:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aquablue (Post 8887689)
The only thing they are constructing is a track that will serve only as an Amtrak shuttle for a few folks moving between two depressed cities. Until TRUMP signs off on the whole deal, there will be no HSR in California and no HSR trainsets will be rolling down those pretty new tracks. Sad, btu tTrue

Well, we only need wait 9 months for Amtrak Joe.

ardecila Apr 10, 2020 1:39 PM

Yeah I'm hoping Biden can bring some serious resources to rail if elected. He's the only candidate who talked about rail on the campaign trail without it being just a small part of some pipe-dream Green New Deal...

Unfortunately, to the extent he is an establishment guy I don't see him pushing any real reforms in American railroading, just throwing more money at it.

Busy Bee Apr 10, 2020 3:40 PM

I don't know about that. Biden is well aware of how behind we are in this arena and what is needed to transform the intercity rail system, so not to traffic in inane trumpian vagueness who knows... I guess we'll see what happens.

TWAK Apr 10, 2020 7:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aquablue (Post 8881960)
This thing has little chance of being more than a stub track for lumbering diesels, plodding from one no-name-town to another, and hardly used too. The sight of beautiful high speed tracks and an Amtrak on it would be like a sumo wrestler on figure skates.

It's gonna be a pretty long stub though from Merced to Bakersfield and really slow at 220 mph.

electricron Apr 11, 2020 5:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TWAK (Post 8890149)
It's gonna be a pretty long stub though from Merced to Bakersfield and really slow at 220 mph.

Before CHSR can have trains going maximum speeds of 200+ mph on the brand new railroad tracks between Merced and Bakersfield, they first must order new HSR train sets. It is going to take Alstom 5 years to compete 28 train sets for Amtrak for the NEC. CHSR has yet to order one. They have not even released a RFP to purchase or lease any. The tracks might be ready next year or a year later, but there will be no 200+ mph maximum speed trains for at least 5 years, possibly 10, 20, 30, 40, or 50 more years. Will CHSR ever order any?

TWAK Apr 11, 2020 6:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by electricron (Post 8890559)
Before CHSR can have trains going maximum speeds of 200+ mph on the brand new railroad tracks between Merced and Bakersfield, they first must order new HSR train sets. It is going to take Alstom 5 years to compete 28 train sets for Amtrak for the NEC. CHSR has yet to order one. They have not even released a RFP to purchase or lease any. The tracks might be ready next year or a year later, but there will be no 200+ mph maximum speed trains for at least 5 years, possibly 10, 20, 30, 40, or 50 more years. Will CHSR ever order any?

If there keeps on being interference from entities outside or within the state then no, it will just be a nice new long rail spur that cost 12 billion.
At first this thing was never going to pass the vote, then it was never gonna get built, and I guess now it will never have HSR trains? There are easier ways to say you just don't like the project...

Busy Bee Apr 11, 2020 12:50 PM

I still think the Authority should buy those newly retired Eurostar trainsets as initial operating equipment. I'm sure they could be gotten for a song and the cost of some refurbished locos and trailers would be exponentially less than ordering brand new proprietary sets before the system is even finished. Plus there would be an extra novelty in the public knowing the trains used to operate between London and Paris.

ardecila Apr 11, 2020 8:36 PM

^ Even post-reform, I'm not sure the FRA regs would allow a European trainset to operate on US tracks without significant alterations - beyond just a mere rehab/overhaul. Any savings over new might be eliminated.

Texas Central is finding that it can't just run Shinkansen equipment in the US without modifications, even if the biggest roadblocks (buff strength, etc) have been eliminated.

That's not to mention that CAHSR is subject to Buy America, whereas Texas Central (and Brightline/Virgin) are not.

jmecklenborg Apr 12, 2020 2:51 PM

With the undeniable air quality improvements experienced around the country from significantly reduced airline travel and intercity vehicular travel, the argument that flying or driving a car from LA to SF is the same thing as riding an electric train has been completely debunked.

I live in the industrial midwest and I'm seeing vivid colors and smelling sweet air in the city that I always previously associated with camping in a national park.

I read elsewhere that someone who has lives in Redondo Beach saw the Hollywood sign this past week for the first time since she bought the house in the 1990s.

All the jet-loving, car-loving LA people, and obviously most Americans across the country, need to wake up and realize that there's a better way to do things. There are very real physical health (asthma, other respiratory issues including the current covid-19) and mental health cost savings to be gained by reducing air pollution.

SFBruin Apr 28, 2020 9:23 PM

A lot of attention has been given to the idea that high speed rail will serve as a commuter system between exurban cities and the metropolitan areas at the ends.

Has there been investment in areas like Bakersfield / Madera etc. since high speed rail construction has begun?

jamesinclair Apr 29, 2020 3:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SFBruin (Post 8906771)
A lot of attention has been given to the idea that high speed rail will serve as a commuter system between exurban cities and the metropolitan areas at the ends.

Has there been investment in areas like Bakersfield / Madera etc. since high speed rail construction has begun?

No

urbanflight May 1, 2020 6:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg (Post 8891348)
With the undeniable air quality improvements experienced around the country from significantly reduced airline travel and intercity vehicular travel, the argument that flying or driving a car from LA to SF is the same thing as riding an electric train has been completely debunked.

I live in the industrial midwest and I'm seeing vivid colors and smelling sweet air in the city that I always previously associated with camping in a national park.

I read elsewhere that someone who has lives in Redondo Beach saw the Hollywood sign this past week for the first time since she bought the house in the 1990s.

All the jet-loving, car-loving LA people, and obviously most Americans across the country, need to wake up and realize that there's a better way to do things. There are very real physical health (asthma, other respiratory issues including the current covid-19) and mental health cost savings to be gained by reducing air pollution.

I completely agree.

N830MH May 11, 2020 11:48 PM

https://www.vvdailypress.com/news/20...QqRa0JVuZFNlD4

Tax credit for Virgin Trains project to bring maintenance facility to Apple Valley

jmecklenborg May 29, 2020 11:40 PM

The LA Times takes a bunch of cheap shots at CAHSR:
https://www.latimes.com/california/s...les-to-Burbank

In the first sentence, we are warned that the trains will "hit people".

Busy Bee May 30, 2020 2:01 AM

It's a par for the course naysayer piece from the LAT but I think the author meant hit in the sense of affect.

That stretch should ideally be in a trench shared with Metrolink, and the numerous arterials that were sunk under the current right of way over the years reconfigured to reconnect the neighborhoods and foster urban develop along the route. I think its a mistake to pursue the conservative approach they seem to be. Putting all that in a trench would be such a smart investment in the future. Four tracks, 2 for passing HSR and 2 for local electrified Metrolink with a modern mezzanine Glendale station spanning the trackway complete with escalators - you know like the 21st century.

electricron May 30, 2020 8:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busy Bee (Post 8936708)
It's a par for the course naysayer piece from the LAT but I think the author meant hit in the sense of affect.

That stretch should ideally be in a trench shared with Metrolink, and the numerous arterials that were sunk under the current right of way over the years reconfigured to reconnect the neighborhoods and foster urban develop along the route. I think its a mistake to pursue the conservative approach they seem to be. Putting all that in a trench would be such a smart investment in the future. Four tracks, 2 for passing HSR and 2 for local electrified Metrolink with a modern mezzanine Glendale station spanning the trackway complete with escalators - you know like the 21st century.

I understand why so many prefer electric locomotives on commuter trains, which Southern California lacks and Northern California will have. But let's look at why it is different within the same state.
Caltrain will run under electric catenaries for 47 miles between San Francisco and San Jose. Caltrain owns this portion of the rail corridor in which the entire length is 78 miles, extending around another 30 miles south of San Jose to Gilroy. Caltrain budget for electrifying just 47 miles is around $1.7 Billion.
Per Wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caltrain
"Cost, excluding electric rolling stock, for the first phase was estimated at $471 million (2006 dollars). By 2016, costs had increased to $1.7 billion."

Some math = 1700 million / 471 million = 3.609. So the costs has increase 360% in 10 years time. That is what has happen in Northern California.

Metolink in Southern California runs on 534 miles with 52 locomotives and 260 railcars with 7 designated rail corridors. I have no idea how much of the 534 miles is owned by them or by freight railroad companies.

if it costs $1.7 billion to electrify 47 miles rail corridor, how much would it cost to electrify another 30 miles in Northern California, and likewise how much would it cost to electrify all 534 miles in Southern California?
Keeping the math simple and assuming the same costs per mile,
1.7 billion / 47 miles = $36 million per mile
Therefore 30 miles x $36 million per mile = $1.08 billion.
Therefore 534 miles x $36 million per mile = $19.22 billion.
Remember, the average $36 million per mile figure does not include the costs of the trains.

In 2016, the latest Wiki reports numbers for, California DOT budget was $17 billion. That's every penny the state government spent of highways, trains, buses, airways, and seaways. That includes any grants received from the US DOT.
Metrolink's budget set in 2019 was $330 million.
https://metrolinktrains.com/news/met...ear2020budget/
Caltrain's budget was $148 million (o&m) and $65 million (capital)
https://www.caltrain.com/Page5010.aspx

Where are you going to find an additional $20 billion?
If California can not find $20 billion in funding for intercity very fast CHSR, why do you think they can find $20 billion for slow commuter rail trains?

Let's not limit the argument to just funding. In San Francisco, one commuter rail line and one HSR line - both being electrified because both are using the same tracks, means 100% of these trains are electrified. But that would not be true in Los Angeles, unless all 7 commuter rail lines were electrified with the HSR line. I suppose Metrolink could electrify one line at a time, make the air cleaner one line at a time - but that would take decades to do all of them. It's harder to justify a non 100% electrification argument wise.

202_Cyclist Jul 2, 2020 12:42 PM

Southern California - Las Vegas rail
 
I don't recall which thread we should post these updates in.

Rancho Cucamonga route could be added to $5 billion train to Las Vegas
Transportation officials have entered into an agreement to expand the Apple Valley-to-Vegas train

By STEVE SCAUZILLO
San Gabriel Valley Tribune
July 1, 2020

"A San Bernardino County transportation agency on Wednesday, July 1, entered into an agreement with a private company building a high-speed train from Apple Valley to Las Vegas for a 50-mile spur through the Cajon Pass into Rancho Cucamonga.

Calling it Phase 2 of the project, the San Bernardino County Transportation Authority board voted unanimously for the 90-day agreement with a Miami-based company to work out where the southern line would run, including design, station locations and access.

Preliminary plans call for the southern spur to travel along the median of the 15 Freeway and when reaching Foothill Boulevard, jog west to connect with the Metrolink station located just west of Milliken Avenue..."

https://www.dailybulletin.com/2020/0...-to-las-vegas/

202_Cyclist Jul 2, 2020 12:50 PM

This could also serve as commuter rail for the people who live in the high-desert communities and commute into the LA basin for work, especially with a station at the Rancho Cucamonga Metrolink station.

"Vegas train an “outside the box” solution to car traffic, gridlock and air pollution. Wolfe said he is eager to work with XpressWest and its privately built and managed high-speed passenger rail to Vegas by getting a second phase built through the Cajon Pass.

Not only would it be the first such ground, non-driving option to Las Vegas from Southern California, but the southern spur would be the first rail option for moving commuters to and from the High Desert and employment centers in the San Bernardino and West valleys."

electricron Jul 2, 2020 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist (Post 8969190)
I don't recall which thread we should post these updates in.

Rancho Cucamonga route could be added to $5 billion train to Las Vegas
Transportation officials have entered into an agreement to expand the Apple Valley-to-Vegas train

By STEVE SCAUZILLO
San Gabriel Valley Tribune
July 1, 2020

"A San Bernardino County transportation agency on Wednesday, July 1, entered into an agreement with a private company building a high-speed train from Apple Valley to Las Vegas for a 50-mile spur through the Cajon Pass into Rancho Cucamonga.

Calling it Phase 2 of the project, the San Bernardino County Transportation Authority board voted unanimously for the 90-day agreement with a Miami-based company to work out where the southern line would run, including design, station locations and access.

Preliminary plans call for the southern spur to travel along the median of the 15 Freeway and when reaching Foothill Boulevard, jog west to connect with the Metrolink station located just west of Milliken Avenue..."

https://www.dailybulletin.com/2020/0...-to-las-vegas/

Excellent idea. But who is going to pay for the extension? XpressWest did not agree to fund it exclusively, so the San Bernardino County Transportation Authority probably will.

Good luck!

mattropolis Jul 2, 2020 5:38 PM

California High Speed Rail has posted a construction update for July 2020.

https://buildhsr.com/construction_update/

It looks like a few overpasses will open this summer, Avenue 7, 10 and 15 in Madera County.

Great to see this progressing!

ardecila Jul 2, 2020 6:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist (Post 8969190)
Rancho Cucamonga route could be added to $5 billion train to Las Vegas
Transportation officials have entered into an agreement to expand the Apple Valley-to-Vegas train

Damn, that's a game-changer. With dual mode locomotives, they could probably run a few trains each day into Union Station. Probably not every train can do this, since Metrolink's San Bernardino Line is single-tracked.

Of course, I don't know any locomotives that can run 150mph on an electrified line and then switch to diesel territory... XpressWest might need to couple on an auxiliary diesel at Rancho Cucamonga to bring it into LA.

Also worth noting there is a huge empty parcel (former Empire Lakes golf course) next to the Rancho Cucamonga station, so Virgin could potentially put in a large TOD development there, especially if SB35 or some of the other TOD bills pass the legislature.

Busy Bee Jul 2, 2020 8:33 PM

Good news indeed. I feel like the next big announcement will be to double-track and electrify the San Bernardino line.

k1052 Jul 3, 2020 2:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 8969536)
Damn, that's a game-changer. With dual mode locomotives, they could probably run a few trains each day into Union Station. Probably not every train can do this, since Metrolink's San Bernardino Line is single-tracked.

Of course, I don't know any locomotives that can run 150mph on an electrified line and then switch to diesel territory... XpressWest might need to couple on an auxiliary diesel at Rancho Cucamonga to bring it into LA.

Also worth noting there is a huge empty parcel (former Empire Lakes golf course) next to the Rancho Cucamonga station, so Virgin could potentially put in a large TOD development there, especially if SB35 or some of the other TOD bills pass the legislature.

Talgo 250s?

ardecila Jul 3, 2020 2:59 PM

^ Maybe, but Virgin would have to get a waiver to run them on San Bernardino Line mixed with Metrolink's heavyweight rolling stock.

Most of the exceptions granted for lightweight equipment have assumed a sealed or closed system not connected to the national rail network, or time-separated.

I guess they might be more lenient with the waivers if PTC is already reducing the risk of collisions.

M II A II R II K Jul 13, 2020 7:08 PM

Study: High-speed rail could slow down emergency responders on Peninsula

https://paloaltoonline.com/news/2020...s-on-peninsula

Quote:

.....

- The rail authority's plan for preventing collisions between cars and trains is not grade separation but the installation of four-quadrant gates that would extend against all lanes of travel, blocking cars from entering the tracks. — "These gates would prevent drivers from traveling in opposing lanes to avoid the lowered gate arms," the document states. "Pedestrian crossing gates would be built parallel to the tracks and aligned with the vehicle gates on either side of the roadway."

- While these gates would discourage cars from getting on the tracks, they also will result in greater delays at rail crossings. The document states that the increase in "gate-down time" from the added high-speed rail trains would "result in potential delays in emergency vehicle response times for fire stations/first responders in San Francisco, Millbrae, Burlingame, Redwood City, Menlo Park, Palo Alto, and Mountain View.

.....

roddyricchthagod Jul 14, 2020 8:37 AM

For every one person killed by crossing gates, 100 will be spared by having an alternative to driving.

202_Cyclist Jul 14, 2020 3:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roddyricchthagod (Post 8980465)
For every one person killed by crossing gates, 100 will be spared by having an alternative to driving.

Absolutely correct, not to mention the lives saved from reducing auto emissions and all of the health problems burning oil causes.

Also, Palo Alto has been against this investment in high-speed rail since the beginning of the project, so I would treat the article with some skepticism.

Busy Bee Jul 14, 2020 3:27 PM

I genuinely don't want to poop on progress but the Peninsula investment as currently being pursued has the potential to be a colossally shortsighted endeavor. The CHSRA should have insisted on a 4-track Caltrain/HSR row with full grade separation top to bottom. For the life of me I don't know how they are going to accommodate 12 HSR trains/hour through 2-track stations at any reasonable speed. It just seems like all these millions will likely be wasted when they realize that you can't pull off proper operation of Caltrain and HSR without a row to facilitate it which includes dedicated tracks bypassing stations and zero potential interaction w/ people or vehicles.

ardecila Jul 14, 2020 3:45 PM

I think the idea is that the HSR trains will crawl up the Peninsula, facilitated by warp speed on other parts of the line like the Central Valley and even the mountain crossings. If you reduce the speed differential between HSR and Caltrain on the shared segment, you can run a pretty dense schedule with only one or two overtakes needed.

Busy Bee Jul 14, 2020 5:43 PM

Running that many trains past platforms full of passengers inches away at intermediate stations is a piss poor way of operating a railroad.

SIGSEGV Jul 14, 2020 10:20 PM

:haha: surely the first responders are smart enough to take a road without grade crossings.

SFBruin Jul 17, 2020 7:26 PM

This is off-topic, but the more that I think about it, the more I think that the station in Tulare doesn't make sense.

Imagine an HSR line with stations in San Francisco, Millbrae, San Jose, Fresno, Bakersfield, Burbank, Los Angeles and Anaheim. I think that that would be pretty cool.

Pedestrian Jul 18, 2020 2:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busy Bee (Post 8980708)
I genuinely don't want to poop on progress but the Peninsula investment as currently being pursued has the potential to be a colossally shortsighted endeavor. The CHSRA should have insisted on a 4-track Caltrain/HSR row with full grade separation top to bottom. For the life of me I don't know how they are going to accommodate 12 HSR trains/hour through 2-track stations at any reasonable speed. It just seems like all these millions will likely be wasted when they realize that you can't pull off proper operation of Caltrain and HSR without a row to facilitate it which includes dedicated tracks bypassing stations and zero potential interaction w/ people or vehicles.

Would have tied the whole thing up in lawsuits for years. Once it gets running, if it's a success, the two tracks can be turned into 4 when/if there's the political support.

Meanwhile, CalTrain itself is on life support:

Quote:

Caltrain might have to shut down after supervisors scuttle sales tax measure
Rachel Swan
July 14, 2020 Updated: July 15, 2020 6:49 p.m.

Caltrain, faced with financial ruin as it runs a near-empty commuter rail line along the Peninsula, may have to shut down altogether.

Officials made the grim prediction Tuesday after the San Francisco Board of Supervisors declined to introduce a 1/8-cent sales tax measure for the November ballot — a vital lifeline that would have generated $100 million a year. It needed approval from four transit boards and Boards of Supervisors in San Francisco, San Mateo and Santa Clara counties. By opting not to support the measure, the San Francisco supervisors effectively scuttled it.

Supervisors Aaron Peskin and Shamann Walton had previously voiced opposition to Caltrain’s governance structure, saying they want to separate the rail line from the San Mateo County Transit District, which manages and operates the rail system for a three-county Joint Powers Board. They say the two other counties served by Caltrain, San Francisco and Santa Clara, should have more control of its leadership and operations.

“It’s taxation without representation,” Peskin said Tuesday, adding that he disagrees with regressive sales taxes. He and Walton committed to “find a policy or legislative solution by next year,” possibly in the form of a state bill . . . .
https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/...s-15408435.php

One assumes they'll resolve this. The carmagedden apocalypse that would occur if all peninsula commuters had to drive into the city is unthinkable and these 2 liberal Democrats surely can't want that. But even if the politics gets ironed out, the damage being done by COVID is severe.

SFBruin Jul 18, 2020 2:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 8984802)
Meanwhile, CalTrain itself is on life support

Crazy how Caltrain was having record ridership just a few months ago.

The impact of Covid is insane.


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