It’s not even a question of “who cares?” but rather “what can we do about it?”

Vaccines are the best tool we have, and they’re here. I have yet to hear a credible answer from anyone in favor of continued restrictions to the question of when these end (“when Covid has disappeared from the face of the earth”, or any answer that essentially means this, is not credible).

It was obvious from February 2020 that there would need to be a level of “acceptable deaths” and acceptable risk. Any residual risk that remains after vaccines are widely available must be deemed acceptable (and possibly more - as you all know I favored the Florida approach of individual responsibility and de facto self-isolation of the vulnerable).

When was the last time you were carded? That’s something that college kids and maybe some early 20-somethings have to deal with.

And places that need to card for entry have bouncers to do that job. Do you expect every retail or restaurant business to hire a full-time doorman to handle this?

You are arguing for indefinite restrictions and this is unacceptable.

I'm carded all the time and I'm in my 40's.

Me too, and I'm 51! More so when I wore masks everywhere.

Admittedly, though, many places here have a policy of "If you look under 35, we will ask for ID." Probably in my case they're just being patronizing. :P Or they can't tell what a 51 year-old Asian looks like. :haha:

In most places, a private business can require proof of vaccination as a terms of service for the customer and as a condition of employment for an employee. Schools systems can also require it as well for students, and almost all of us reading this would have had to get vaccinated to attend school. I know some states are trying to make that illegal now to score cheap political points, but those laws probably won't hold up in a federal challenge... And some might even violate their own state laws.

I got carded last weekend.

Neither of us are lawyers but I believe you are wrong. Most jurisdictions grant considerable leeway to the Alcohol Beverage Control Board or whatever they call it to make reasonable rules about the businesses they regulate and I also believe most courts would find it reasonable to require vaccinations in establishments serving alcohol as a public health measure.

The law doesn't set strict rules as to what constitutes a "public nuisance" either but any bar or club generating frequent police calls over noise or rowdy behavior would soon find itself declared one and shut down in most places.

Exactly. Just like "no shoes, no shirt, no service", another rule based in public health issues.

Tell me what laws there are requiring showing proof vaccination to enter an establishment? You're right, none of us are lawyers but I suspect for this to be actual law and enforceable, the state government would actually have to formalize it so at the very least grant alcohol agencies that authority. Then that really only applies to bars and some restaurants with high enough volume of alcohol sales. For example here in Texas, no one can carry any weapon into any establishment (bar or club) that makes 51% or more of their sales in alcohol...per the TABC but I can pack heat in a Applebee's.

Maybe that’s a Texas thing. I’ve also been living in a country where the drinking age is 18 for the last 8+ years.

This is pretty murky when you get into the details. Many places in North America don't require vaccination for children attending public school. Of the ones that do some have non-medical exemptions. And the vaccines they require are generally older (chickenpox being one of the newer ones, rolled out from the late 80's to mid 90's) and not only approved under the lower bar of an emergency use authorization.

It sounds like full FDA approval for Pfizer isn't expected until early 2022.

The thread of mainstream opinion on this has been pretty strange. There were a lot of conservative voices back in the fall of 2020 that were arguing against say human challenge trials or larger scale trials and defending bureaucratic delays when the death rate was far higher and people weren't even allowed to choose to be vaccinated. But then once the EUA was granted a lot of people lurched to the other extreme and argued that coercing people into getting vaccinated was a good idea.

It's an American thing. I was carded in New York last week. If you look youngish, they have to card you and I do not look like I'm in my 40's...or so people around me say.

I can play younger too, but there’s a big difference between not looking like you’re in your 40s and looking like you’re 20 or a teenager. ;)

It’s probably a bit like how they occasionally pull an elderly white woman aside for additional screening at the airport so it doesn’t look like they’re racially profiling.

I'm sure there are places that don't require it, but the ones that DO require it are the precedent for whether they can require proof of vaccination.

It has more to do with liability than flattering us 40-somethings. I might look 30-ish but an under 21 can also look 30-ish so they card everyone they think are in that age rage.

Not LAWS . . . yet. Administrative rules made by executive branch agencies under authority granted by the legislature.

https://www.healthline.com/health-ne...s-and-concerts

Note that if a state such as California can make rules about attendance at indoor events relating to vaccination status, they can make rules prohibiting the unvaccinated from attending entirely (as Erie County officials in New York evidently did). Probably based on Public Health law, which allows measures that might surprise a lot of people including confinement to your home or an institution, these measures would likely just have to pass a "reasonableness" test in relation to their stated purpose (preventing spread of covid).

Things are getting a little spicy in Florida:

Florida reports 231 COVID deaths, 45K more cases in last week

"Hospitalizations
Across the state, hospitalizations are rising with 3,652 people were hospitalized with COVID-19 for the seven-day period from July 7-13, according to the latest White House report. In comparison, 2,369 were hospitalized the previous week. The week before that, it was 1,868."

well at least the governor has his priorities straight

Gov. Ron DeSantis sells ‘Don’t Fauci My Florida’ merch as his state’s COVID-19 cases spike

https://d35ligi1n5bgzc.cloudfront.ne...VY_1000USA.png

This i think perfectly illustrates my point that provincial leaders are force to be responsible because they actually manage the health systems in each province.
If part of Desantis job was trying to manage health resources across the state we would have to be more responsible.

There are no laws requiring men to wear shirts in 7-11, for example, but the clerks can legally deny you service and ask you to leave their establishment if you are bare chested. Private businesses are allowed to set and enforce rules for prospective customers on their premises as long as the rules do not violate any specific law.

That said, red states will continue to pass laws specifically barring proof of vaccination by private businesses, because the RepubliQAns have abandoned their 'small government' principles and are now the official anti-vaxx party.

But I am not sure the dust has settled to where proof of vaccination falls under the same scope as requiring shoes and shirt legally. I hope it does so we can go out and have peace of mind while we're out eating that Kovid "I have an immune system" Karen won't sitting behind us spreading her funk all over the place.