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twister244 May 2, 2021 8:59 PM

I posted this in the CE virus thread, but it's somewhat applicable here:


So, I got my second Moderna shot yesterday afternoon.... and I'm here to tell you it SUCKS........

Hard time sleeping, fever of 101-102 (which is high for me when I am usually 97-98), massive headache, chills.... It basically feels like the flu.

With that said, we need to start opening things up for folks who are fully vaccinated. If you are asking people to endure this heavy of a reaction to a vaccine, you need to give them an incentive. Telling people they need to basically take at least 36 hours of their life to be sick (even though you aren't sick) is a heavy ask.

If the government continues to keep these restrictions in place, even after people are vaccinated, I can see why people are skipping out on their second shot, or not in a rush to get their first shot.

Pedestrian May 2, 2021 9:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twister244 (Post 9267536)
I posted this in the CE virus thread, but it's somewhat applicable here:


So, I got my second Moderna shot yesterday afternoon.... and I'm here to tell you it SUCKS........

Hard time sleeping, fever of 101-102 (which is high for me when I am usually 97-98), massive headache, chills.... It basically feels like the flu.

With that said, we need to start opening things up for folks who are fully vaccinated. If you are asking people to endure this heavy of a reaction to a vaccine, you need to give them an incentive. Telling people they need to basically take at least 36 hours of their life to be sick (even though you aren't sick) is a heavy ask.

If the government continues to keep these restrictions in place, even after people are vaccinated, I can see why people are skipping out on their second shot, or not in a rush to get their first shot.

I despair for the people of America. They can't even handle 36 hours of achiness and mild fever in order to avoid weeks of hospitalization and possible death. Did you try taking some aspirin or Tylenol? 2 full-strength aspirin at bedtime the night of the shot pretty much did the job for me.

The first and second shots are not so you can go to a bar or the gym (although, having had them, you should be able to). They are to keep you alive and out of the ICU. There's a certain incentive there. And if you are young and feeling invulnerable, there's the knowledge you are doing what it will ultimately take to render the virus to history, even if the pay-off isn't immediate (we will need to get most of the under-16 set also vaccinated before the virus can be deprived of a breeding ground entirely).

IluvATX May 2, 2021 9:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twister244 (Post 9267536)
I posted this in the CE virus thread, but it's somewhat applicable here:


So, I got my second Moderna shot yesterday afternoon.... and I'm here to tell you it SUCKS........

Hard time sleeping, fever of 101-102 (which is high for me when I am usually 97-98), massive headache, chills.... It basically feels like the flu.

With that said, we need to start opening things up for folks who are fully vaccinated. If you are asking people to endure this heavy of a reaction to a vaccine, you need to give them an incentive. Telling people they need to basically take at least 36 hours of their life to be sick (even though you aren't sick) is a heavy ask.

If the government continues to keep these restrictions in place, even after people are vaccinated, I can see why people are skipping out on their second shot, or not in a rush to get their first shot.

I got my second Pfizer shot last week and no side effects. I hear the side effects are worse with Moderna and J@J.

SIGSEGV May 2, 2021 9:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twister244 (Post 9267536)
I posted this in the CE virus thread, but it's somewhat applicable here:


So, I got my second Moderna shot yesterday afternoon.... and I'm here to tell you it SUCKS........

Hard time sleeping, fever of 101-102 (which is high for me when I am usually 97-98), massive headache, chills.... It basically feels like the flu.

With that said, we need to start opening things up for folks who are fully vaccinated. If you are asking people to endure this heavy of a reaction to a vaccine, you need to give them an incentive. Telling people they need to basically take at least 36 hours of their life to be sick (even though you aren't sick) is a heavy ask.

If the government continues to keep these restrictions in place, even after people are vaccinated, I can see why people are skipping out on their second shot, or not in a rush to get their first shot.

restrictions are related to case rates /hospitalizations. Vaccines reduce those, so indirectly will indeed reduce restrictions (albeit indirectly, which doesn't help with free riders). Alo, right now many places exempt vaccinated people from various restrictions (e.g. vaccinated people do not count towards capacity limits in Illinois, although in practice this is difficult for people to take advantage of other than special occasions like weddings and such).

Pedestrian May 2, 2021 9:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV (Post 9267574)
right now many places exempt vaccinated people from various restrictions (e.g. vaccinated people do not count towards capacity limits in Illinois, although in practice this is difficult for people to take advantage of other than special occasions like weddings and such).

Not going to wash in the very blue regions. Vaccinations rates are lower in minority communities. Ergo, any special privileges for the vaccinated are discriminatory and will not be tolerated (in spite of the fact that we are very near the point where the vaccine supply makes the shots readily available and free to anyone willing to take them).

SIGSEGV May 2, 2021 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 9267583)
Not going to wash in the very blue regions. Vaccinations rates are lower in minority communities. Ergo, any special privileges for the vaccinated are discriminatory and will not be tolerated (in spite of the fact that we are very near the point where the vaccine supply makes the shots readily available and free to anyone willing to take them).

That might explain some of this special phrasing in
https://www.chicagotribune.com/coron...~3~4~art%20yes
Quote:

Nevertheless, Lightfoot and Chicago public health Commissioner Dr. Allison Arwady sought to clarify their remarks from earlier in the week regarding the city’s consideration of trying to entice vaccine stragglers to get inoculated. On Tuesday and Wednesday they previewed a so-called Vax Pass incentive, expected to roll out in May, that would provide vaccinated people with access and preferred seating at concerts and other events. “There is no passport,” Lightfoot said Thursday.

Arwady, meanwhile Thursday, said she doesn’t consider the Vax Pass a “vaccine passport” but rather an incentive to get the shot. She gave an example of someone getting vaccinated and having an “opportunity” to get tickets to concerts that are “open to people who are vaccinated with not all the requirements in place related to masking and social distancing.”
although it could also be an acknowledgement that some people presumably have medical conditions that might prevent vaccination.

Steely Dan May 2, 2021 11:21 PM

Got up to 83 degrees today in chicago.

So we beached it up for 6 hours this afternoon.

Foster beach was not only open (unlike last summer), it was pleasantly (but not onerously) crowded and very, very few people were bothering with masks.

One of the most normal feeling days I've had in chicago since this whole shit-show started.

the urban politician May 3, 2021 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 9266548)
https://www.sfchronicle.com/local/ar...s-16142794.php

The situation now is completely reversed from what it was last spring. When you read about outbreaks and "waves" now, you are reading about sick 20, 30 and 40 year-olds who either weren't eligible for vaccination in time or who were so convinced of their invulnerability that they didn't bother to get vaccinated. The 90% of Oregon's hospital beds that are full are not full of seniors. And the idea that this disease does not make younger people sick enough to need hospitalization is wrong and always has been. But now it is making very few seniors sick at all and is aiming itself straight at the young. Quite a few of them thought that couldn't happen I'm sure.

Still scared and hiding in your basement, I see?

Sorry, but you just aren’t going to get most people to become as irrational as you are. Even in Oregon, it’s the same factor at play that you willfully ignore. Death rates per capita for younger people is far lower than with older people.

So the stupidity of younger people shirking vaccines just means that the virus spreads like wildfire among the young and, with such high numbers of infected, death rates are climbing.

But that doesn’t mean that the virus is becoming more deadly to young people, or the idiotic notion that the vaccine is failing.

You’ve just become Howard Hughes

Camelback May 3, 2021 12:16 AM

What else is there possibly to talk about on this topic after 1 year and 5 months? Everything is or has opened up, there's nothing to be afraid of like has always been the case, unless you're at risk and over 50. And we have a glut of vaccines out there and therapeutic treatments. If you're at risk and have not gotten vaccinated, then that's on you.

SIGSEGV May 3, 2021 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steely Dan (Post 9267637)
Got up to 83 degrees today in chicago.

So we beached it up for 6 hours this afternoon.

Foster beach was not only open (unlike last summer), it was pleasantly (but not onerously) crowded and very, very few people were bothering with masks.

One of the most normal feeling days I've had in chicago since this whole shit-show started.

I was just on the riverwalk which was popping. Fortunately the gelato place opened yesterday, just in time!

the urban politician May 3, 2021 1:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camelback (Post 9267666)
What else is there possibly to talk about on this topic after 1 year and 5 months? Everything is or has opened up, there's nothing to be afraid of like has always been the case, unless you're at risk and over 50. And we have a glut of vaccines out there and therapeutic treatments. If you're at risk and have not gotten vaccinated, then that's on you.

The only thing really that remains an issue is vaccine hesitancy among the young. The virus will simmer as long as that’s an issue.

We aren’t getting rid of Covid, ever. That’s for sure.

twister244 May 3, 2021 2:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steely Dan (Post 9267637)
Got up to 83 degrees today in chicago.

So we beached it up for 6 hours this afternoon.

Foster beach was not only open (unlike last summer), it was pleasantly (but not onerously) crowded and very, very few people were bothering with masks.

One of the most normal feeling days I've had in chicago since this whole shit-show started.

Great to hear! I arrive in town next weekend, and cannot wait to job down the lake on beautiful summer evenings.

dktshb May 3, 2021 3:32 AM

Skied Mammoth this weekend and had drinks and ate out indoors both nights. So nice to be vaccinated and back to a normal life. Appears most all the spikes in cases we see in the US are for younger folks. Wonder why more younger people are now ending up in the hospital with severe disease???

https://abc7.com/covid-in-younger-pe...rus-us/10566368/

Why younger patients are becoming severely ill with COVID-19

By Arielle Mitropoulos


Quote:

"Hospitals are seeing more and more younger adults, those in their 30s and 40s, admitted with severe disease," Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky reported during a press briefing earlier this month.


Experts say the exact reason behind this trend is unclear, but could include the rise of variants, relaxed attitudes towards distancing and other mitigation measures, a younger population that is not yet fully vaccinated and vaccine hesitancy. It could also be merely more younger people getting the disease.

Even though not all hospitalizations are the result of severe illness, state officials say the trend is worrying.

"There is a very sharp increase, it appears, in younger adults... these are largely people who think that their age is protecting them from getting very sick from COVID-19, that is not happening," Cassie Sauer, CEO and president of the Washington State Hospital Association, said during a press conference on Monday.

Camelback May 3, 2021 1:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 9267718)
The only thing really that remains an issue is vaccine hesitancy among the young. The virus will simmer as long as that’s an issue.

We aren’t getting rid of Covid, ever. That’s for sure.

Yeah I think it's going to be an easily managed endemic disease until the virus mutates out into other forms. There's not a chance that we vaccinate everybody everywhere and it seems like even if we vaccinate, we will have to get boosters shots.

The Spanish Flu which was an avian flu, never went away, the variants are still active and with us today. The H1N1 Swine Flu pandemic of 2009 was a 4th generation descendent of the 1918 Spanish Flu.

the urban politician May 3, 2021 1:18 PM

^ Yes, any basic use of common sense will tell us that younger people becoming the major reservoir of disease (and thus hospitalizations) is the obvious next step to a pandemic in which the majority of vaccine recipients are elderly people. This is exactly what one would expect to happen, as opposed to the notion that suddenly the virus has done an about face and decided to become MORE deadly to the young while sparing the elderly. Completely wrong interpretation. The correct interpretation is that young people need to be goaded into vaccination in order to stop this, not that we need to hide in our basements and be scared because Covid has evolved into a new strain that kills more young people, which is basically Sci-Fi nonsense.

Check out where I bolded below:

Quote:

COVID 'Doesn't Discriminate By Age': Serious Cases On The Rise In Younger Adults
May 1, 20217:00 AM ET
WILL STONE

After spending much of the past year tending to elderly patients, doctors are seeing a clear demographic shift: young and middle-aged adults make up a growing share of the patients in COVID-19 hospital wards.

It's both a sign of the country's success in protecting the elderly through vaccination and an urgent reminder that younger generations will pay a heavy price if the outbreak is allowed to simmer in communities across the country.

"We're now seeing people in their 30s, 40s and 50s — young people who are really sick," says Dr. Vishnu Chundi, an infectious disease physician and chair of the Chicago Medical Society's COVID-19 task force. "Most of them make it, but some do not. ... I just lost a 32-year-old with two children, so it's heartbreaking."

Nationally, adults under 50 now account for the most hospitalized COVID-19 patients in the country — about 35% of all hospital admissions. Those age 50 to 64 account for the second-highest number of hospitalizations, or about 31%. Meanwhile, hospitalizations among adults over 65 have fallen significantly.

More than 30% of the U.S. population is now fully vaccinated, but the vast majority are people older than 65 – a group that was prioritized in the initial phase of the vaccine rollout.

While new infections are gradually declining nationwide, some regions have contended with a resurgence of the virus in recent months — what some have called a "fourth wave" — propelled by the B.1.1.7 variant, first identified in the U.K., which is estimated to be somewhere between 40% and 70% more contagious.

As many states ditch pandemic precautions, this more virulent strain still has ample room to spread among the younger population, which remains broadly susceptible to the disease.

The emergence of more dangerous strains of the virus in the U.S. — the B.1.1.7, as well as other variants first discovered in South Africa and Brazil — has made the vaccination effort all the more urgent.

"We are in a whole different ballgame," says Judith Malmgren, an epidemiologist at the University of Washington.

Rising infections among young adults create a "reservoir of disease" that eventually "spills over into the rest of society" — one that has yet to reach herd immunity — and portends a broader surge in cases, she says.

Fortunately, the chance of dying from COVID-19 remains very small for people under the age of 50, but this age group can become seriously ill or suffer from long-term symptoms after the initial infection. People with underlying conditions such as obesity and heart disease are also more likely to become seriously ill.

"B.1.1.7 doesn't discriminate by age, and when it comes to young people, our messaging on this is still too soft," says Malmgren.

Hospitals filled with younger, sicker people

Across the country, the influx of younger patients with COVID-19 has startled clinicians who describe hospital beds filled with patients, many of whom appear sicker than what was seen during previous waves of the pandemic.

"A lot of them are requiring ICU care," says Dr. Michelle Barron, head of infection prevention and control at UCHealth, one of Colorado's large hospital systems, as compared with earlier in the pandemic.

The median age of COVID-19 patients at UCHealth hospitals has dropped by more than a decade in the past few weeks, from 59 down to about 48 years old, says Barron.

"I think we will continue to see that, especially if there's not a lot of vaccine uptake in these groups," she says.

While most hospitals are far from the onslaught of illness seen during the winter, the explosion of cases in Michigan underscores the potential fallout of loosening restrictions when a large share of adults are not yet vaccinated.

There's strong evidence that all three vaccines being used in the U.S. provide good protection against the U.K. variant.

One recent study suggests that the B.1.1.7 variant doesn't lead to more severe illness, which was previously thought. However, patients infected with the variant appear to be more likely to have more of the virus in their bodies than those with the previously dominant strain, which may help explain why it spreads more easily.

"We think that this may be causing more of these hospitalizations in younger people," says Dr. Rachael Lee at the University of Alabama-Birmingham hospital.


Lee's hospital also has observed an uptick in younger patients. Like in other Southern states, Alabama has a low rate of vaccine uptake.

But even in Washington state, where much of the population is opting to get the vaccine, hospitalizations have been rising steadily since early March, especially among young people.

In the Seattle area, more people in their 20s are now being hospitalized for COVID-19 than people in their 70s, according to Seattle King County Public Health Chief Health Officer Dr. Jeff Duchin.

"We don't yet have enough younger adults vaccinated to counteract the increased ease with which the variants spread," said Duchin at a recent press briefing.

Nationwide, about 32% of people in their 40s are fully vaccinated, compared with 27% of people in their 30s. That share drops to about 18% for 18- to 29-year-olds.


"I'm hopeful that the death curve is not going to rise as fast, but it is putting a strain on the health system," says Dr. Nathaniel Schlicher, an emergency physician and president of the Washington State Medical Association.

Schlicher, also in his late 30s, recalls with horror two of his recent patients — close to his age and previously healthy — who were admitted with new onset heart failure caused by COVID-19.

"I've seen that up close and that's what scares the hell out of me," he says.

"I understand young people feeling invincible, but what I would just tell them is — don't be afraid of dying, be afraid of heart failure, lung damage and not being able to do the things that you love to do."

Will younger adults get vaccinated?

Doctors and public health experts hope that the troubling spike in hospitalizations among the younger demographic will only be temporary — one that vaccines will soon counteract.

It was only April 19 that all adults became eligible for a COVID-19 vaccine, although they were available in some states much sooner.

But there are some concerning national polls that indicate a sizable portion of teens and adults in their 20s and 30s don't necessarily have plans to get vaccinated.

"We just need to make it supereasy — not inconvenient in any way," says Malmgren, the Washington epidemiologist. "We have to put our minds to it and think a little differently."

She recommends more outreach through social media platforms or even at bars and other places where younger people hang out. Two bars in New Orleans tried this tactic earlier this month — one even offered a free shot to customers who got vaccinated.

When Chicago physician Vishnu Chundi talks to the families of his COVID-19 patients, he generally doesn't hear resistance to getting the vaccine so much as a sense of complacency about getting it done quickly.

"You have to be motivated to go to these places, you have to get two vaccines now — it's a process," he says. "If it's available for them, they're going to go pick up coffee somewhere and it's there — yes, they'll get vaccinated."
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...younger-adults

iheartthed May 3, 2021 3:05 PM

Quote:

Reaching ‘Herd Immunity’ Is Unlikely in the U.S., Experts Now Believe

Widely circulating coronavirus variants and persistent hesitancy about vaccines will keep the goal out of reach. The virus is here to stay, but vaccinating the most vulnerable may be enough to restore normalcy.

Early in the pandemic, when vaccines for the coronavirus were still just a glimmer on the horizon, the term “herd immunity” came to signify the endgame: the point when enough Americans would be protected from the virus so we could be rid of the pathogen and reclaim our lives.

Now, more than half of adults in the United States have been inoculated with at least one dose of a vaccine. But daily vaccination rates are slipping, and there is widespread consensus among scientists and public health experts that the herd immunity threshold is not attainable — at least not in the foreseeable future, and perhaps not ever.

Instead, they are coming to the conclusion that rather than making a long-promised exit, the virus will most likely become a manageable threat that will continue to circulate in the United States for years to come, still causing hospitalizations and deaths but in much smaller numbers.

How much smaller is uncertain and depends in part on how much of the nation, and the world, becomes vaccinated and how the coronavirus evolves. It is already clear, however, that the virus is changing too quickly, new variants are spreading too easily and vaccination is proceeding too slowly for herd immunity to be within reach anytime soon.

Continued immunizations, especially for people at highest risk because of age, exposure or health status, will be crucial to limiting the severity of outbreaks, if not their frequency, experts believe.

“The virus is unlikely to go away,” said Rustom Antia, an evolutionary biologist at Emory University in Atlanta. “But we want to do all we can to check that it’s likely to become a mild infection.”

The shift in outlook presents a new challenge for public health authorities. The drive for herd immunity — by the summer, some experts once thought possible — captured the imagination of large segments of the public. To say the goal will not be attained adds another “why bother” to the list of reasons that vaccine skeptics use to avoid being inoculated.

Yet vaccinations remain the key to transforming the virus into a controllable threat, experts said.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/03/h...y-vaccine.html
If this is true then we're probably somewhere around halftime in the global pandemic, rather than late in the fourth quarter as we all hoped.

hauntedheadnc May 3, 2021 3:18 PM

It appears that I suddenly have reason to care about how opened up Chicago is going to be by the end of this month...

Travel is one of my husband's passions, and having been denied it, except for one quick jaunt to Florida, for over a year, he's to the point that if he doesn't get to get on a plane and go somewhere he's going to cut a bitch. To that end he looked and found a good deal on flights to Chicago and hotel downtown.

So, looks like that's where I'll be over the Memorial Day weekend. How's it looking up there?

woodrow May 3, 2021 4:02 PM

^^ For Cook County, 32% of all residents, 40% of those over 18, and 61% of those over 65 are fully vaccinated. Illinois is at 31.3 % fully vaccinated and 47.2% for at least one shot. By the time you are here we should be well over 50% one shot and hopefully over 40% fully vaccinated. Cases had ticked up, but last week started to subside again.

Restaurants and stores are really beginning to re-open/expand hours. Fireworks at Navy Pier every Saturday night. The Cubs and White Soxs are playing before crowds.
The traffic is getting worse. All good things!

the urban politician May 3, 2021 4:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iheartthed (Post 9268102)
If this is true then we're probably somewhere around halftime in the global pandemic, rather than late in the fourth quarter as we all hoped.

Yeah, I've been thinking this for a long time.

I don't see COVID going away, ever. Like the Flu, you get your yearly shot.

And for the people who don't want to get their shots, take the chance if you wish.

But there is no reason to keep our economy shut down, even partially, because of COVID. I mean, there's really nothing we can do at this point if you can't force younger people to get vaccinated.

sopas ej May 3, 2021 4:15 PM

I don't know how variants evolve, but would fewer variants of the COVID virus emerge if more/most/all people were vaccinated? I was thinking yeah, I SUPPOSE we can let the people who don't wanna be vaccinated just not be vaccinated, but isn't this also why people get annual flu shots, because there are many more people who just don't get flu shots, so flu strains are also evolving, so flu shots have to be an annual thing for people who want it, instead of just being a one-off thing?


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