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-   -   How Is Covid-19 Impacting Life in Your City? (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=242036)

someone123 Dec 16, 2021 9:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by homebucket (Post 9478763)
What was his point then? That positive patients should be able to go back to work or school regardless of symptoms or when they tested positive?

In the long run, it will eventually be endemic and so many people will have so much immunity that it just won't matter much anymore. Many parts of the globe are well on their way there. It's not even clear how much tracking is working in a lot of places. Many people who have covid might never know it.

The 14 day rule was always probabilistic. Some people transmit for more than 14 days, and there was a question of balancing transmission against the costs of imposing isolation. As the cost of transmitting goes down, that balance shifts. Maybe the right answer eventually will be the same as it was before with flu. Stay home while you feel sick, go back to work after you feel better. Maybe another point of compromise is simply to test negative after your positive test. In some places you still have to do 14 full days even if you test negative the whole time which seems excessive in populations that mostly have some immunity (such as where I live; I don't actually know any unvaccinated people, and many around here got boosters).

the urban politician Dec 16, 2021 9:44 PM

^ That sounds too reasonable. I'm sure that you will be publicly shamed for suggesting that.

SAN Man Dec 16, 2021 9:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by homebucket (Post 9477094)

When news of this spreads to other Californians they'll be upset and will be less likely to voluntarily participate. I just heard that the cities of SDC Coronado and El Cajon will not enforce or use any local resources to enforce California's mask mandate, I'm sure there are others in the state and more cities will follow.

I've had 2 Pfizer shots, 1 Moderna booster and at least one Covid infection that I know of.

10023 Dec 16, 2021 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LA21st (Post 9478821)
You'd have a different tune if it was a loved one

My dad is in his 70s and like 80lbs overweight. It’s unfortunate, but frankly I’ve been expecting him to die any minute for some time now, and I don’t expect anyone to sacrifice normal life just so that it isn’t this particular virus that does it.

I had a colleague whose father died of Covid (older than me, so his father was in his 80s). I expressed my condolences, he shrugged his shoulders and said “he was very old”. That’s a much more realistic outlook on life.

JManc Dec 16, 2021 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 9478948)
My dad is in his 70s and like 80lbs overweight. It’s unfortunate, but frankly I’ve been expecting him to die any minute for some time now, and I don’t expect anyone to sacrifice normal life just so that it isn’t this particular virus that does it.

I had a colleague whose father died of Covid (older than me, so his father was in his 80s). I expressed my condolences, he shrugged his shoulders and said “he was very old”. That’s a much more realistic outlook on life.

Because he's 70+ or that he's overweight? 70's really isn't that old. If you're in you 80's and otherwise fairly healthy, don't think I could shrug it off and chalk it up to old age.

homebucket Dec 16, 2021 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by someone123 (Post 9478886)
In the long run, it will eventually be endemic and so many people will have so much immunity that it just won't matter much anymore. Many parts of the globe are well on their way there. It's not even clear how much tracking is working in a lot of places. Many people who have covid might never know it.

The 14 day rule was always probabilistic. Some people transmit for more than 14 days, and there was a question of balancing transmission against the costs of imposing isolation. As the cost of transmitting goes down, that balance shifts. Maybe the right answer eventually will be the same as it was before with flu. Stay home while you feel sick, go back to work after you feel better. Maybe another point of compromise is simply to test negative after your positive test. In some places you still have to do 14 full days even if you test negative the whole time which seems excessive in populations that mostly have some immunity (such as where I live; I don't actually know any unvaccinated people, and many around here got boosters).

Just so we're clear, you are saying you're comfortable if a coworker/student stays at work/school after testing positive for COVID as long as he/she is asymptomatic.

Pedestrian Dec 16, 2021 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by someone123 (Post 9478886)
In the long run, it will eventually be endemic and so many people will have so much immunity that it just won't matter much anymore. Many parts of the globe are well on their way there. It's not even clear how much tracking is working in a lot of places. Many people who have covid might never know it.

The 14 day rule was always probabilistic. Some people transmit for more than 14 days, and there was a question of balancing transmission against the costs of imposing isolation. As the cost of transmitting goes down, that balance shifts. Maybe the right answer eventually will be the same as it was before with flu. Stay home while you feel sick, go back to work after you feel better. Maybe another point of compromise is simply to test negative after your positive test. In some places you still have to do 14 full days even if you test negative the whole time which seems excessive in populations that mostly have some immunity (such as where I live; I don't actually know any unvaccinated people, and many around here got boosters).

The CDC is lately recommending self-isolation for 10 days and/or 7 days if a repeat PCR test is negative. Do you have objections to that?

If Canada is doing something different, that's their problem I guess.

When I was exposed, I waited 7 days and got a PCR test which was negative and at that point I assumed I was fine and behaved accordingly.

Quote:

You may be able to shorten your quarantine
Your local public health authorities make the final decisions about how long quarantine should last, based on local conditions and needs. Follow the recommendations of your local public health department if you need to quarantine. Options they will consider include stopping quarantine

- After day 10 without testing
- After day 7 after receiving a negative test result (test must occur on day 5 or later)

In areas using options to reduce quarantine times, people who are asymptomatic can use a negative test result collected on day five (5) after exposure to exit quarantine on day seven (7), with additional self-monitoring. The day of exposure is considered day zero (0).
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...isolation.html

10023 Dec 16, 2021 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JManc (Post 9479002)
Because he's 70+ or that he's overweight? 70's really isn't that old. If you're in you 80's and otherwise fairly healthy, don't think I could shrug it off and chalk it up to old age.

It’s the combination, really. And someone in their 80s is quite old (spare me the 80 is the new 60 nonsense).

someone123 Dec 16, 2021 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 9479039)
If Canada is doing something different, that's their problem I guess.

It was actually possible to get 2 back-to-back quarantine periods without ever testing positive. A and B live together. A tests positive. B tests negative. On day 14 A is done. Public health says maybe B got infected on day 14, so the clock starts over. The isolation period was only 10 days for somebody who never tests positive, so this case was 24 days total for somebody who never had covid.

I am doubtful that such a protocol would look good from a cost-benefit perspective if you value the cost of isolation at much more than 0. Part of what's going on is probably that the costs of isolation are mostly borne by the person who is isolating, not the government. It is the same with excessive PCR testing demands for travel (Canada was at one point asking for *3* PCR tests for some returning travelers, because if you had a layover somewhere you had to retest).

Pedestrian Dec 16, 2021 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 9478948)
My dad is in his 70s and like 80lbs overweight. It’s unfortunate, but frankly I’ve been expecting him to die any minute for some time now, and I don’t expect anyone to sacrifice normal life just so that it isn’t this particular virus that does it.

Nice estate coming your way? :happybirthday:

10023 Dec 16, 2021 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 9479073)
Nice estate coming your way? :happybirthday:

Not exactly. I bought my father’s house for him.

chris08876 Dec 17, 2021 1:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by homebucket (Post 9478745)
The reason for this is to prevent spreading it to other people. Once you test positive, even if fully vaccinated and boosted, you can still infect others.

The interesting part is that the big issue is the asymptomatic folks. I mean one could have it, feel perfectly fine, go to the gym, run several miles, smoke, do whatever, and never ever know they have it. Could be perfectly fine.

Hence why everyone will eventually get it. There's too many outliers, to many things or folks out of our control.

If this was something where the minute one starts having symptoms, they are contagious... sure... but the asymptomatic aspect makes it almost impossible to get rid of.

That 50 million U.S. case number is probally double or triple.

I myself have never tested positive but I find it hard to believe I went this long without getting it when folks around me in the past have gotten it. Went for two tests when I had sniffles, and negative. Triple shot vaccine, and IDK... no idea. I suppose a anti-body test could do wonders but who knows how far those go back. Might never know until some actual real symptoms are shown.

For the asymptomatic they may never know unless they go for a random test or maybe are compelled to go after being near someone who was positive.

chris08876 Dec 17, 2021 2:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by someone123 (Post 9478886)
In the long run, it will eventually be endemic and so many people will have so much immunity that it just won't matter much anymore. Many parts of the globe are well on their way there. It's not even clear how much tracking is working in a lot of places. Many people who have covid might never know it.

Makes me wonder how this is spreading in say places like Lagos or those Nigerian cities. Some of the slums for example where there's like a million people in a square mile.

Speaking of long run, places like China are going to eventually have to give up a Covid-zero mentality. Can't keep this out forever. Which might if we think about it mess them up because while the West is getting itself herd immunity, the lack of constant exposure might make some folks more vulnerable.

Kind of like someone living in Africa getting Malaria 2-5 times a year versus some traveler who never got it. The natives that are use to the pathogen will be much stronger!

Maybe not showering and not washing hands breeds a stronger immune system in the long run. More exposure! Food for thought.

It's why visitors drink the water and get sick. Folks be drinking the water that isn't filtered, playing in it too, young kids... and they don't get sick. But Francis from California going to Lagos will puke her vegan meal right out a day later after she drinks the water.

the urban politician Dec 17, 2021 2:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by homebucket (Post 9479010)
Just so we're clear, you are saying you're comfortable if a coworker/student stays at work/school after testing positive for COVID as long as he/she is asymptomatic.

Yes

I am. I saw a Covid positive patient (a Sheriff) a few days ago. Come on, man.

You.

Are.

Vaccinated. (And boosted, I presume?)

This isn’t smallpox. Do you have any idea what your chance of getting seriously ill and dying is? I mean, this is starting to get dystopian. Look at the statistics

homebucket Dec 17, 2021 3:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 9479451)
Yes

I am. I saw a Covid positive patient (a Sheriff) a few days ago. Come on, man.

You.

Are.

Vaccinated. (And boosted, I presume?)

This isn’t smallpox. Do you have any idea what your chance of getting seriously ill and dying is? I mean, this is starting to get dystopian. Look at the statistics

Yes, if we look at our individualized cases in a silo, the risk of severe Covid complications with vaccination and boosting in a younger, healthy person is extremely small.

But we have to keep in mind that the original discussion is in the context of widespread public health policy. Our risk is not the same as others, and I don't think there's a simple "yes should have mitigation measures" or "no we should stop all mitigation measures" answer here. The implications of a potential Covid outbreak among the wait staff at a restaurant where patrons are choosing to eat at a restaurant are different from say a Covid outbreak at an oncology infusion clinic or a transplant PACU or an L&D unit. I think we'd have to take a look at a lot of different scenarios and allow for certain exceptions before deciding we can lift all mitigation measures.

Even in scenarios where the risk of complications are low, I doubt restaurant patrons would be pleased to hear that half the kitchen staff are carrying Covid even if they are asymptomatic. Of course, I think we'll probably get to the point where no one would even know if someone is positive or not because testing is no longer prompted due to lack of symptoms. In which case, then it would functionally be like a cold or flu.

the urban politician Dec 17, 2021 4:32 PM

^ I mostly agree, but hospitals can go ahead (and already do) have their own mitigation measures. Oncology units as just one of many examples.

The idea that a bunch of elected talking heads with law degrees wearing suits and ties need to impose overbearing rules beyond that is……it just makes no sense to me. And it doesn’t accomplish much except infuriate half the population, which then goes on to flout the rules.

TWAK Dec 17, 2021 6:56 PM

Rural Nor Cal is sorta following the mandate. Some shops are and some aren't, so it's probably based on how the owners voted :haha:.

JManc Dec 17, 2021 7:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 9479068)
It’s the combination, really. And someone in their 80s is quite old (spare me the 80 is the new 60 nonsense).

Yes, 80's are old but that doesn't mean everyone that age is one heartbeat away from croaking. My grandmothers were active and healthy at well into their late 80's and only started declining in their 90's.

SAN Man Dec 17, 2021 8:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TWAK (Post 9479936)
Rural Nor Cal is sorta following the mandate. Some shops are and some aren't, so it's probably based on how the owners voted :haha:.

Urban SoCal is sorta not following the state mandate. Oceanside has now joined Coronado and El Cajon in not using any resources to enforce the CA mask mandate. They said if you want to report a violation call the County.

I've gone into a few businesses since 12/15, most are not enforcing masks. My barber, no masks. My local convenient store, no masks. In N Out, mask required sign on the door, but people ordering without masks and obviously you can't eat with a mask. My local Vons, masks, but numerous people not wearing masks. Mailed Christmas gifts at the local USPS and the mailmen had noses hanging out. When I got my booster shot pre mandate at Kaiser some of the nurses weren't wearing their masks correctly. Again, noses exposed.

iheartthed Dec 17, 2021 11:07 PM

New York sets new record for positive cases in a single day:

Quote:

‘This Is a Whole New Animal:' NY Reports Highest Single-Day Case Total of Pandemic

The previous record, set 11 months ago on Jan. 14, crumbled when Gov. Kathy Hochul announced 21,027 new positive cases statewide Friday. The old record for most reported cases in a single day was 19,942, when reported hospitalizations were on the brink of 9,000. Now, the number of people admitted is down by more than half.

New York reported close to the same number of tests taken last Friday, but of that batch (over 260,000), there were 10,000 less positive cases one week ago. Also, when you compare hospitalizations to one week ago, the number of people in hospitals for COVID-19 has risen by about 300, reflecting an increase of 8%.

And in New York City, where testing lines have wrapped around blocks and people report wait times well over an hour, 10,286 positive cases were reported Friday. That total is up 20% from the previous day, and 100% from two days earlier. It's also the highest reported testing day for the city since the beginning of the pandemic, and the first time the city saw more than 10,000 cases in a single day.

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/coro...surge/3456543/


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