SkyscraperPage Forum

SkyscraperPage Forum (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/index.php)
-   Transportation (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=25)
-   -   The Brightline Thread (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=198371)

electricron Sep 13, 2014 9:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatman (Post 6728523)
Thanks for the info.

I still wonder about the economics. If 125 mph speeds are the main reason for the two locomotives (and don't get me wrong, I am all for 125 mph!), then the second locomotive is really only needed for the 40 miles where 125 mph is allowed. The rest - if I understand it all correctly - is either 79 or 110 mph. 40 miles at 125 mph can be covered in just over 19 min., while at 110 it takes just over 21 min., both not counting time to accelerate to top speed.
2 minutes doesn't really make a big difference - not enough to justify a second locomotive.

There are several other advantages using two locomotives besides higher maximum sustained speeds.
(1) Higher reliability, in case one locomotive encounters a failure.
(2) Two cabs, one in each locomotive on opposite ends of the train means not having to build return loops or wyes to turn the train around.
Of course, having a cab in a coach would provide this (2) advantage as well, but not advantage (1).
(3) with FRA compliant locomotives on either end, the possibility FRA will allow lighter built coaches increases. (3a) Lighter coaches means lower operating costs due to lower weight. (3b) Lighter coaches means faster accelerating and decelerating, achieving faster average speeds.
(4) Two locomotives means more horsepower, allowing faster accelerating - and due to twice the counter EMF in the twice as many electric motors, faster decelerating too.
(5)Don't forget, the last 40 miles into Orlando will be single track - even a gain or loss of just two minutes (four minutes roundtrip) can affect train scheduling.

lrt's friend Sep 14, 2014 1:00 AM

40 miles at 125mph is more like 20 minutes not 2 minutes.

electricron Sep 14, 2014 5:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lrt's friend (Post 6728742)
40 miles at 125mph is more like 20 minutes not 2 minutes.

Actually, 40 miles at 125 mph is 19 minutes and 12 seconds. And 40 miles at 110 mph is 21 minutes and 49 seconds. The difference between the two train speeds is 2 minutes and 37 seconds....

That's the two minutes being discussed earlier. Is basic mathematics too difficult to discuss around here?

eleven=11 Sep 14, 2014 7:49 AM

I am no expert on trains more interested in this story
about the Miami/Ft Laud/WPH stations and development.
I don't think you need two trains because you cant turn around
that sounds stupid, pretty sure trains can go forward and reverse
I think tri-Rail has 2 train engines.
Anybody know about the new WPB station re-design ???

that 40 miles of single track, very important for the extra speed
so the next train can arrive in the other direction.....
also the single track ? if they expand to Jacksonville
will this cause a problem for more trains?
actually the Jacksonville trains maybe less then the 16/16 trains
more like 8 north to daytona 8 south to the airport

Eightball Sep 14, 2014 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by electricron (Post 6728914)
Actually, 40 miles at 125 mph is 19 minutes and 12 seconds. And 40 miles at 110 mph is 21 minutes and 49 seconds. The difference between the two train speeds is 2 minutes and 37 seconds....

That's the two minutes being discussed earlier. Is basic mathematics too difficult to discuss around here?

He was saying how long 40 miles approximately takes at 125mph, not the differences between 110 and 125.

BTW more info on the trainsets here (as 202 mentioned great opportunity to create American jobs!):
http://www.cnbc.com/id/101992801
Quote:

The trains will be made in Siemens' solar-powered rail manufacturing hub in Sacramento, California, with traction motors and gearboxes coming from Norwood, Ohio; propulsion containers from Alpharetta, Georgia; and diesel engines manufactured by Cummins in Seymour, Indiana...
We are very excited about Florida," Cahill said, noting that it's privately owned. "It could be the beginning of something much bigger. There is a rail resurgence we see across the nation because other modes of transportation are quite congested."

Cahill said Siemens is also very interested in bidding on the California high-speed rail project (It's right in our backyard") but declined to say whether the company was bidding on a contract to build Amtrak's replacement Acela trains.

Amtrak is currently seeking request for proposals to build new high-speed passenger trains for its Northeast Corridor. Bids are due Oct. 1 for up to 28 new Acela Express train sets, with a requirement that they can reach 160 miles per hour when delivered and have the ability to be modified to achieve faster speeds, said Amtrak spokesman Craig Schulz.

electricron Sep 14, 2014 3:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eightball (Post 6728998)
He was saying how long 40 miles approximately takes at 125mph, not the differences between 110 and 125.

Really? What Hatman wrote initially, as I quote;
"40 miles at 125 mph can be covered in just over 19 min., while at 110 it takes just over 21 min., both not counting time to accelerate to top speed.
2 minutes doesn't really make a big difference - not enough to justify a second locomotive."

Eightball Sep 14, 2014 3:31 PM

I don't really care either way but I was talking about what lrt's friend said.

N830MH Sep 15, 2014 4:36 AM

Wave streetcar loop proposed for Flagler Village
 
http://touch.sun-sentinel.com/#secti.../p2p-81316808/

Quote:

The first set of tracks hasn't been laid yet for the city's planned $142.6 million Wave electric streetcar project, but officials are already considering a $7.2 million upgrade.

Proponents say creating a loop at the project's northern end along Northeast Sixth Street in Flagler Village would promote redevelopment of more properties and would be an asset to the city's efforts to attract businesses to Sistrunk Boulevard to the west.

"The Sistrunk investment was huge. It was about a $15 million investment and it showed commitment and it showed the right direction to take that street into the future," said developer Alan Hooper, who owns properties in Flagler Village where the loop would be. "This is as big an investment, as big of a decision for Flagler Village as [that] was for Sistrunk."

eleven=11 Sep 17, 2014 7:27 AM

the AAF tv commercial is great seen it tons of times very good
Now there is a new Siemens tv commercial
not about florida , but about trains
very patriotic makes you feel good about made in the USA
This AAF project is a slam dunk

eleven=11 Sep 22, 2014 2:29 AM

if anybody wants good quality info on AAF
check out reasonrail.blogspot.com

Hatman Sep 23, 2014 7:22 AM

Great link.
The horse-power per ton for two locomotives and seven coaches makes sense to me. Also, everything Electricron said before. I'm on board with this idea now.
Also, I like how everything is being designed for future 9-coach trains. And how the tickets have a boarding door for 1-minute long station dwells. The more I learn about this project the more I love it.
But there is one question I have that hasn't been answered... In building the line from Cocoa to Orlando, are they designing for an eventual second track, or do they think it will always be single-track? I don't see how there could be any higher frequency than 1 hour headways without a second track.

Busy Bee Sep 24, 2014 3:30 PM

Glimpse of Siemens Charger and Viaggio coach model at Innotrans 2014 in Berlin:


https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2944/...29e93433_b.jpg
><><

Jasonhouse Sep 24, 2014 9:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatman (Post 6739914)
Great link.
The horse-power per ton for two locomotives and seven coaches makes sense to me. Also, everything Electricron said before. I'm on board with this idea now.
Also, I like how everything is being designed for future 9-coach trains. And how the tickets have a boarding door for 1-minute long station dwells. The more I learn about this project the more I love it.
But there is one question I have that hasn't been answered... In building the line from Cocoa to Orlando, are they designing for an eventual second track, or do they think it will always be single-track? I don't see how there could be any higher frequency than 1 hour headways without a second track.

If it takes roughly 20 minutes for a train to traverse the distance, doesn't that mean that it's more like 5 trains every two hours that can come or go on that segment?

And wouldn't they be able to do like a passing zone in the middle to boost frequencies?

electricron Sep 25, 2014 2:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jasonhouse (Post 6742035)
If it takes roughly 20 minutes for a train to traverse the distance, doesn't that mean that it's more like 5 trains every two hours that can come or go on that segment?

And wouldn't they be able to do like a passing zone in the middle to boost frequencies?

It could be three trains every hour with 20 minutes elapse times over the single track.

Yes, a passing siding midway in the single track milage potentially allows doubling the number of trains per hour.

In either case, only if every train was absolutely on time. Which only happens in Japan systematically.

Yet, they only require two trains per hour, one in each direction, as stated in their EIS. For initial operations, a passing siding isn't needed on the single track milage. But that doesn't mean they will not build one - or two.

Hatman Sep 25, 2014 6:18 AM

The 20 minutes we're talking about was arrived at assuming a constant speed of 125 miles per hour - so if we were to count time to accelerate up to speed and then decelerate, we may arrive at a figure closer to half an hour.
I'm not sure a passing siding would be the best solution, because it means one train has to slow down to switching speeds. I don't know what the speed limit is for high-speed switching tracks internationally, but here in the (western) USA I haven't heard of one that diverges at a speed greater than 45 miles per hour. That's about one third of the 125 mile per hour speed limit. The point being that a passing siding would make the journey even slower. That may be a price AFF is willing to take to increase capacity, but making a 3 hour trip even longer is rarely a good marketing strategy.
I hope something is done eventually to allow an increased frequency during peak hours. It's no good turning customers away at peak hours and having empty seats during non-peak hours.

Also, AWESOME picture Busy Bee. I like the look of that train. It looks like the Locomotive is as long as the passenger car? I like long locomotives (I'm a fan of the old E units of the streamliner age). It's just so much cooler when the locomotives match the cars in all dimensions, including length - it really makes the train look like a complete set rather than a hodge-podge of the cheapest available equipment.

Nexis4Jersey Sep 25, 2014 6:48 AM

Any recent construction pictures?

N830MH Sep 26, 2014 4:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey (Post 6742641)
Any recent construction pictures?

Please be patient. Give it some time. They will working on it.

llamaorama Sep 26, 2014 6:05 AM

It looks like the railjet in Austria.

Hatman Sep 27, 2014 3:09 AM

Railjet is very cool-looking. It's got nice matching lines down the whole train, and the cars are probably the same ones AAF is getting. But I hope the ends are more streamlined than the Railjet, because the 'shovel-nose' look of the railjet consist doesn't exactly scream 'speed!!!' to me.
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/i...NkWMm-djU3BR9g

I hope the design from that video AAF released makes it through to final production. It almost looks like the ICE 3/Velaro, but a diesel locomotive:
http://mediaassets.tcpalm.com/photo/....0_640_480.jpg
Video Link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhG5ImwYBYg

chris08876 Oct 8, 2014 12:34 PM

Second Phase Of Miami-Orlando Rail Line Could Also Be Privately Financed

http://i.imgur.com/P3Ct8XC.jpg

Quote:

All Aboard Florida is considering a return to the private bond market for a second time, after completing a bond sale successfuly earlier this year.

In June, the company successfully sold $405 million in bonds in a deal that ‘wowed’ the bond markets. Those funds were only intended to cover construction of the first phase between Miami and West Palm Beach, which is already underway.

Instead of using a Railroad Rehabilitation & Improvement Financing loan from the Federal Railroad Administration for the second phase, the company now says that they determined to pursue Private Activity Bonds, which are tax-free and privately financed. Since they are sold to private investors, the company says that taxpayers won’t be taking on any risk of a default. The PABs would either replace or reduce a potential RRIF loan, which was originally expected to be $1.6 billion.

Despite the change in financing, opposition groups north of Palm Beach are continuing to fight the project over traffic, safety and noise concerns that they say would disrupt their way of life way while bringing no benefits.
From the All Aboard Florida website:

Quote:

All Aboard Florida successfully secured private financing for the first phase of the project earlier this year. We have therefore determined to pursue private debt financing for the remaining capital needed.

All Aboard Florida hopes to utilize an existing program, Private Activity Bonds (PAB), which are designed to encourage private companies to invest in public infrastructure. A PAB allocation would represent an alternative plan to finance the project and would replace or substantially reduce the current Railroad Rehabilitation and Improvement Financing (RRIF) request. Investors in PABs are private entities, therefore, this financing mechanism poses zero risk to the local, county, state or federal governments.
====================================
October 7, 2014
http://www.exmiami.org/index.php/sec...tely-financed/


All times are GMT. The time now is 9:33 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.