Who cares about walking a block between two trains? That seems like a red herring to me. The problem is that there will be two trains to transfer between in the first place. That, and much longer headways on the express vs the Blue Line, resulting in the full trip downtown taking a similar amount of time.

This whole idea of another train to O'Hare seems really outlandish to me.
We already have good transit form the CBD to our airports; much better than other large american cities. Why are we about to spend a ton of money building a third train line from The Loop to O'Hare that can't be much faster than the other two (unless we spend even crazier amounts of money on new ROW)?
Are we really competing with Singapore for this kind of thing? Who would go there rather than here due to a faster train downtown?
Are enough people to matter really so prissy that they can't stand sharing a CTA train with the residents of the city they're visiting? And if they are, would they really ride this express, or take a cab/limo directly to their destination anyway?

And imagine how much nicer the Blue Line could be made if they spent the money for this there instead. Think of how many more Chicagoans would benefit from that spending every day.

^ not a red herring at all. One block of walking takes a significant amount of time when traveling with bags or small children.

If this could be done on the NCS as a private operation, I'd be all for it. But it can't, because a proper airport express needs at least 20 minute frequency all day, and you can't do that without major flyovers at every junction from O'Hare to CUS. Cities like London and Paris built those flyovers a century ago and now they can run airport express trains using just their excess capacity.

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I would like to welcome Ellen Hughes of the Stop the Flyover Coalition to our Forum, please play nice!

She'll be treated here like anyone else. If she says something stupid, she'll be called out on it:shrug:.

"I am not losing my house," Hughes said, referring to the 16 commercial and residential buildings on 21 properties that the CTA must acquire to accommodate the flyover structure. "But Chicago is going to lose Lakeview," she said.


Lakeview isn't going anywhere and the neighborhood/community is larger than 16 properties and the project would serve ALL who use said rail lines.

A hearing for the public to comment on the bypass environmental assessment will be held from 6:30 to 8 p.m. June 3 at the Center on Halsted, 3656 N. Halsted St., Chicago.

It really does and it makes me pissed that the planning is so short sighted that it isn't.

Even if there are no plans to run O'Hare express in that vicinity it could still eventually be useful to integrate with potential Metra or Amtrak operations in the future as well. Even if the idea is not have O'hare express at all, run it to a West terminal, build a spur more direct towards the terminals, or run it on the Blue Line eventually it would STILL be advisable to build it so that it wasn't 400 feet away away and through layers of parking decks in order to get to it. As someone who has used the Metra station at O'Hare after a flight I would RATHER deal with the current set up then have to walk through a parking garage or walk around the building in order to get to a train.

If the idea is to kick the can down the road and extend the ATS again in the future by 100's of yards sweeping around the building and needlessly adding another station (and time) to the whole track in order to serve Metra/Amtrak trains when the time calls for it then it is extremely shortsighted. Again, because of time, station, and cost factors. The time to make those tracks and the ATS interconnected is NOW with this project. Unfortunately I don't see it happening.

My speculation is that rental companies or some powers that be insisted that they wanted the fact of the complex facing west towards Besty Coleman Drive. Given that it is primary built for the rental companies in mind they get largest say in the layout and format of the complex.

It is true that some situation exists that needs to be addressed, and plans must be made to provide for more capacity in the future; but CTA's plan is NOT the only possible alternative, as they try to make it seem. And they HAVE to say what they say, because it's their job; like me selling BP Gas -- I can't send people to Shell or Mobil, or I'll be fired.

Do you think CTA Staff can say "Well, maybe we should consider some other alternatives" -- "Sure Chuck, nice knowing you"

We got $400M (and still paying) Block 37 because of Transit Propaganda ("our Central Core would die from our lack of an Airport Express to compete with other cities"). Now Ming has decided to look into an Airport Express again, and YOU ALL are already pulling it apart.

Many Chicago Area transit Projects (Circle Line, Star Line, etc.) have failed, and this thing needs to be one of them.

""But Chicago is going to lose Lakeview," she said."

One of the stupidest comments I've read.

All your other examples were pet projects of politicians and died because they didn't solve immediate needs and/or their cost/benefit ratio was completely out of range.

The Red/Brown Flyover solves an immediate problem, isn't a pet project of anyone I can identify, has been proposed previously (for the same reasons) and was shot down then only because the immediately surrounding area protested too much. The CTA has a history of both proposing pet projects that can and should go nowhere, but also of very worthwhile plans that get dumped for problems outside the domain of the CTA or transit. For example the 1968 plan had many components that were worthy and have been proved worthy over the past almost 50 years (who can say that a subway from the West Loop to Streeterville, the South Loop and McCormick Place wouldn't be very useful today?), but didn't happen essentially because of the late 1970s stag-flation and changes to the way the Feds funded transit.

The flyover is, in my opinion, something that should have been done when it was first proposed and definitely needs to be done today.

You forgot one other pet projects..."Obsessed Activist..Gray Project". "doesn't solve immediate needs and/or their cost/benefit ratio was completely out of range."

DH

..

The Stop the Flyover people are cast as being selfish, "standing in the way of progress", and inhibiting thousands. Blocking whole the Future of the North Side -- BULL!

ONE thing all that money could be used for instead would be to restore the XBus system on Major Streets throughout the City of Chicago. That system significantly improved Public Transit ALL OVER the Entire City (or am I wrong?)

And I am sure it could be re-implemented at FAR LESS cost than the Flyover, which selfishly improves Public Transit ONLY on the North Side, Claypool's "Golden Corridor" (much more about that statement later). They said that system was eliminated for "financial reasons"....

Who was that CPS Lady who just resigned? You know I really trust the "honesty" factor in Chicago Government.

And them eliminating the #11 section, and blocking the #31 was just PETTY; ANY Organization the size of CTA could have found that money somewhere!

It's like they didn't bring a small animal to their Royal Audience for sacrifice, and so they were sent away.

For better or worse, capital projects and those requiring operating funds are often judged by very different criteria at US transit agencies, and draw on different sources. We can't easily use TIF funds to add Lincoln bus hours, for instance.

The X buses were paid for by CMAQ demonstration project grants, as I recall, so eventually had to show some results or come to an end. The problem was that, without signal preemption or dedicated lanes, they didn't run end-to-end much faster than the locals. Since we didn't yet have BusTracker, the patron on the street quickly learned that he was better off just taking whichever bus came first.

The Red Line no longer runs to 95th St ?

Yes it certainly does, but not along Stony Island, Cottage Grove, King Drive, Ashland, Western, Pulaski, and Cicero.

It Is VERY convenient to ride from North & Pulaski 40 blocks down to the Red Line at Clark, then to 95th, then 40 blocks back to Pulaski on Pace (instead of a one-seat express ride) Oh yeah, you can hop the Blue Line at Damen to get downtown and transfer to the Red Line (BIG time savings); 4 seat ride versus 1 seat ride.

Also the Express bus routes ran through from the South Side to the North Side as well. And the X55 made a fast run to Midway for Hyde Park/UoC people, and the X80 made a fast trip for North Siders from the Lakefront areas to the Irving & Pulaski Blue Line connection to O'Hare; and I love the implication that I am only working for the South Side instead of the entire city.

So do you think the Flyover is better than serving the E N T I R E City? Why?

Why is the Flyover better, than an Express on Cicero from Jeff Park to 95th (and A L L the other streets?) And why does just the North Side deserve it better, than A L L the other parts of the City COMBINED? ONE Bridge versus 9 to 10 Regional Express Bus Routes covering many, many economically and ethnically diverse neighborhoods. Why?

Yes it does run to 95th St. And the city and the CTA along with thousands of daily riders await building the Red line south to E. 130th St.

DH

If the Red Line is going to 130th, why are they building the Giant Star Wars Hive at 95th St. (I mean, if it is only going to end up being an intermediate station along the Line). All the incoming feeder buses would end up rerouted to/through closer stations like 103rd, 111th, 116th & Michigan, and the 130th St. Terminal, wouldn't they? With only 95E & 95W remaining. Why would Pace bypass other closer Red Line stations to get to 95th?

Read the Tea Leaves David! They said it might be 16yrs. before Funding efforts kick into gear.

You are right, and that was my experience (at that time), I serviced all the Copiers, Printers, and Faxes at Rush St. Luke's Medical Center for about 3 years, while living at 87th and Cottage Grove. The Blue Line to the Red Line to 87th was crowded, slow, and a drag. If I didn't see an X9, I would get on a local (you could still watch out the back window for a catching-up Express, and I had a Pass) If the Express came first, it was a WAAAAAAY better ride than screwing with the "L", faster and less crowded; and they all took a few passengers away FROM the already crowded "L" system. With the GPS Bus Tracking Technology that we have now, and Flat Screen Displays at Express stops and on-board; you could show the real-time relative locations of the buses on each route (X's in Red, Locals in Green), so you could decide how to route your trip.

Our new Pres. Carter should be able to look into this, with his Washington DC Funding connections. Even in addition to a Flyover.

And you know the Gray Line is going to end up in this somewhere, so get ready.

And you do know that any Funding from the Feds. must have Local Matching Funds; I'm am not sure what the Funding Ratio would be for the Flyover (does anybody know?), but I wonder if Gov. Rauner would be willing to come up with $500 to $800M to match those Bridge Funds, if lots of folks said it was a HUGE WASTE; and that it been overwhelmingly voted against by Citizens in a Non-Binding Referendum. (which of course the past Springfield Administration would just ignore, but Bruce seems to be just Hell-on-Fire about eliminating waste --
I think he's OCDC)

You contended that the flyover would only improve transit for the north side, which isn't the case since the Dan Ryan branch would necessarily enjoy the increased schedule it would allow.

The goals of improved bus service and increased rail capacity aren't mutually exclusive. I'd like to see a lot more BRT (particularly on the south side and E-W streets of the north side).

Because the Feds are never going to give us funding to do the Red Line extension and CTA could never afford to do it out all out of pocket. RPM (and the now rolled in flyover) can go after more pots of money and thus stands a much better chance of getting funded.