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NYguy Aug 1, 2013 8:22 PM
NEW YORK | LaGuardia Airport Redevelopment
 
Finally, what is possibly the nation's worst major airport, is getting much needed upgrades. Named for one of the City's great mayors, the airport seems stuck in decades past, but big changes are coming.



http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article...TATE/130739965

Makeover for LaGuardia's main terminal advances
Four big groups are named as finalists in the $2.4 billion project to build and operate a bigger, better replacement for the airport's aging and much maligned central terminal. Goldman Sachs, Kohn Pedersen Fox and Skanska are among those in the running.


By Daniel Geiger
July 31, 2013


Quote:
The Port Authority of New York & New Jersey has named four finalists in the bid to build and operate a new $2.4 billion main terminal at LaGuardia Airport. The announcement comes more than a year after nearly a dozen companies came forward to compete for the mega-project.

The four groups consist of high-powered consortiums of financial, construction and airport operating partners. The Port Authority is bidding out the redevelopment project as a so-called public-private partnership in which the winning bidder will pay for the cost of the upgraded terminal in return for a cut of the revenue it nets from leases with the airlines that use it, as well as with stores and restaurant tenants.

The project will be done in phases, the first of which will begin this year when the Port Authority begins building a new $82.9 million parking garage that will rise on the east side of the terminal next to the Delta Air Lines terminal. That 1,100-car garage, and another that is slated to be built on the west side of the terminal, will allow the airport's main garage to be demolished to make way for the new terminal building, which will rise on that site. In all, the Port Authority has pledged to make $1.2 billion in upgrades to the airport that will lay the infrastructure for the new terminal building.


The new terminal will be 1.3 million square feet and boast 35 gates. The current terminal, also has 35 gates but at 835,000 square feet, it is nearly 40% smaller than its planned successor.

The new building would mark a vast improvement on the existing facilities, which bowed in 1964 and are universally considered to be antiquated with undersized security and baggage processing areas, as well as undersized food concession and retail areas, that in most airports are both big amenities and revenue generators.

The Port Authority has not yet set a firm timeline when the new building will begin, but is aiming to finish the project by 2021. The terminal's replacement has become increasingly urgent as the New York City region's airports perennially rank as some of the nation's most delay plagued. The amount of traffic that passes through the terminal has vastly exceeded its 8 million passengers a year it was designed to handle. In 2012, that figure swelled to 25.7 million travelers and by 2030, the Port Authority projects at least 34 million will pass through the terminal each year.


-The first of the finalists in alphabetical order is Aerostar New York Holdings, a group that includes Highstar Capital, Aeropuerto de Cancun, Hunt Architects, Fentress Architects,VRH Construction and RBC Capital Markets.

-The second is LGAlliance, pairing Macquarie, Lend Lease, Turner, Hochtief, Parsons and Gensler.

-The third is LaGuardia Gateway Partners, a partnership of Vantage Airport Group, Skanska, Meridiam Infrastrucure, Tishman Construction, Parsons Brinckerhoff, Morgan Stanley, Citigroup and Wells Fargo.

-And lastly, there is LGC Central Terminal Consortium, a joint venture of Aéroports de Paris, TAV Construction, Tutor Perini, Goldman Sachs, Suffolk Construction, STV, Arup and Kohn Pedersen Fox.

The new terminal will be constructed as the existing facility continues to operate. The new building will be situated closer to the Grand Central Parkway, allowing more space to be created for aircraft parking at the airport and help facilitate its operational efficiency.

"We're thrilled that the Port Authority is making real progress advancing an innovative public-private partnership to bring LaGuardia Airport into the 21st Century," said Joseph Sitt, a large Manhattan landlord who this year started an airport advocacy group called the Global Gateway Alliance to advocate for improvement to the region's air infrastructure. "The project should ultimately serve as a model for bringing private sector resources into modernizing airport infrastructure."

Busy Bee Aug 1, 2013 8:32 PM
Rail link? Hello!?!?

NYguy Aug 1, 2013 10:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busy Bee (Post 6218395)
Rail link? Hello!?!?
They don't have money to pay for that right now, especially with all of the money being spent on the PATH terminal. Anyway, easier access to the airport won't change the inefficiencies of the airport itself. Let's get it rebuilt, and get better access when we can.


http://www.newsday.com/news/new-york...jobs-1.5813842

LaGuardia Airport construction to create 1,500 jobs


August 1, 2013
By MARIA ALVAREZ


Quote:
A new phase in the construction of LaGuardia Airport's new terminal building is expected to create 1,500 jobs as work begins on a six-level parking garage and an electrical substation. The $255-million project will create a garage for 1,100 cars and replace one of the airport's antiquated electrical substations to support the new terminal, which is slated to be completed in 2019, according to the Port Authority.

The $3.6 billion LaGuardia Airport redevelopment project includes a $2.4 billion terminal and $1.2 billion for infrastructure and airport roadways, said Ron Marsico, Port Authority spokesman. The new Central Terminal Building will accommodate larger aircraft to meet the demand of additional passengers, whose numbers are estimated to increase over the next two decades, according to the Port Authority, which operates the airport.

"These infrastructure projects will help ready LaGuardia Airport for aviation's next generation as it modernizes one of New York City's premier gateways," Scott Rechler, Port Authority vice chairman, said in a statement.

Other work being completed includes upgrades to Terminals C and D for Delta Air Lines, the airport's largest carrier. Delta opened a new 630-foot-long pedestrian bridge in December, and in June installed a moving walkway.

The bridge connects the two terminals so passengers do not have to go through security twice, said Leslie Scott, Delta spokeswoman. Both terminals will have full service restaurants, bars and cafes -- a total of 29. Also 2,000 iPads are being installed in both terminal waiting areas, allowing passengers to order meals that are delivered to them.

"It's a totally different airport," Scott said. Terminal C is expected to be completed next year. Other work will redesign Terminal D to offer an easier traffic flow for travelers, she said.

chris08876 Aug 1, 2013 11:38 PM
Great news. A modern touch to LaGuardia is always good and can help ease the crowds.

Crawford Aug 2, 2013 12:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busy Bee (Post 6218395)
Rail link? Hello!?!?
Rail link should not be a high priority, IMO. They're already putting in two BRT lanes, one from LGA to Manhattan and the other to the 74th/Roosevelt subway hub in Queens.

And, dear God, this rebuilding of LGA is so way past overdue. I can't wait for the new main terminal.

202_Cyclist Aug 2, 2013 1:13 AM
Of possible interest, the FAA's New York Area Program Integration Office shows the planned airport improvements for LaGuardia (as well as JFK, Newark, Teterboro, and as well as airspace improvements for the New York region and Northeast).

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/...s&facility=LGA

202_Cyclist Aug 2, 2013 1:19 AM
Not to be difficult, shouldn't this entire thread be under the transportation section?

NYguy Aug 2, 2013 4:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist (Post 6218782)
Not to be difficult, shouldn't this entire thread be under the transportation section?
The is about the redevelopment of the terminal (a building ) along with the other improvements to the airport.



Here's more information on the redevelopment of the central terminal...
http://www.panynj.gov/business-oppor...efing-book.pdf


And we see at least some planning for the feasibility of some rail in the future...

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/151625917/original.jpg



http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/151625916/original.jpg




http://www.nycaviation.com/2012/02/l.../#.Ufs3ynXD_Dd

LaGuardia Airport’s Central Terminal Dilemma


Quote:
LaGuardia Airport’s Central Terminal Building is overcrowded and outmoded, said Robert Aaronson, then aviation director of the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey (PANYNJ), in an interview with Newsday. That was in 1986. It has not gotten much better. The authority, which manages LaGuardia and four other New York area airports, and airlines have invested more than $1 billion in various redevelopment and improvement projects at the airport with little discernable improvement since Aaronson’s comment.

Travelers and airlines still hold disdain for the airport. They face crowded security checkpoints, narrow concourses, limited concession options and cramped gate holding areas inside the terminal. Aircraft operations on the ramp are limited by the narrow spaces between the concourses and gates designed for the 1960s-era McDonnell Douglas DC-9 (the -10 series was in development when the CTB opened). Numerous surveys and rankings confirm these opinions. JD Power and Associates and Zagat Survey have repeatedly called the airport the worst in terms of passenger satisfaction in America. Frommer’s recently said that it would be far better suited for somewhere like Kansas City – a far cry from the global metropolis of New York. And outspoken real estate mogul Donald Trump has called it a “third world airport,” though he still keeps his own private jet there after many years.

The CTB was designed for about eight million passengers per year when it opened in April 1964. Renovations and expansion projects over the years expanded that capacity to about 15 million per year, according to PANYNJ estimates in 1990. It handled 13 million passengers in 2006 but peaked at nearly 19 million in the late 1970s and early 1980s.

“[LaGuardia] should fundamentally be town down and rebuilt again,” said Chris Ward, then executive director of the PANYNJ, at a Crain’s New York Business Forum in April 2010. That is exactly what the authority hopes to do.

The PANYNJ released a request for information (RFI) for a new CTB to private firms last month. The building was described as functionally deficient and inadequate for the level of service expected by airlines and passengers today. Interested companies are asked to submit recommendations on how to finance the estimated $3.6 billion project and speed up the proposed seven-year construction timeline. The RFI is the first step of what will undoubtedly be a long process. The proposal outlines plans to demolish the CTB and hangar two in phases and replace it with a new, three-pier terminal. The new facility would have 1.3 million square feet, up to 38 gates and include space for a future rail station at the airport. It would also connect to the US Airways terminal. The existing CTB has 750,000 square feet and 36 gates located on four concourses. Construction is currently slated to begin in July 2014 and be complete at the end of 2021.

Few are likely to miss the CTB. For all of the convenience to Manhattan that LaGuardia offers, a flight delay when departing from the building could be equal to a sentence to hours of often hunger-filled boredom. The wi-fi can be spotty, the majority of food and shopping concessions are located outside security as are most of the airline clubs. This is not to say that the Delta, Marine Air Terminal and US Airways terminals offer significantly better amenities – they simply do not face the same capacity and design deficiencies that the CTB does. But the now derided CTB was not always seen this way. “This building is simply beautiful,” said Marie LaGuardia, the widow of former New York City mayor Fiorello LaGuardia, to reporters at the opening celebrations of the CTB in 1964. The six-block long terminal then represented the epitome of the dawning jet age – steel, glass and a soaring, if international style, future. What a difference 48 years makes.

Perklol Aug 2, 2013 9:02 AM
They want to extend the subway/commuter rail here?

antinimby Aug 2, 2013 1:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 6218728)
Rail link should not be a high priority, IMO.
I very much disagree. A large, modern airport today in a major metro area without some kind rail access is very disappointing and not first rate no matter how shiny or new the facilities are. BRT is not the same and should only be considered a stopgap.

After upgrading the central terminal building, rail should be the next highest priority.

Busy Bee Aug 2, 2013 2:19 PM
Agreed. As for the prelim schematic showing a possible heavy rail allignment, I must say I wish they would plan and build ahead of time a subterranean station in the lowest level,of the terminal and a future connection could tunnel under the GC and be completely climate controlled. Who wants to arrive at LGA in the winter with their fine luggage and stand at a windswept elevated platform? All that should be inside the terminal itself and that has to be planned for NOW.

Crawford Aug 3, 2013 2:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antinimby (Post 6219255)
I very much disagree. A large, modern airport today in a major metro area without some kind rail access is very disappointing and not first rate no matter how shiny or new the facilities are. BRT is not the same and should only be considered a stopgap.
I don't really disagree with this, except that there are a ton of more important rail expansion projects in the region, so I don't think this should be a priority. You would get crazy high ridership, for example, if you built a new line through central Queens, or expanded Brooklyn's Nostrand Ave. line southward, or rebuilt rail along the Webster Ave. corridor in the Bronx.

Airport rail doesn't generate particularly high ridership, and LGA is only the #3 regional airport. And if you expand, you will have to go underground which will cost mega billions. Giuliani tried expanding the subway to LGA and there was massive opposition to an elevated alignment.

And LGA has a very unique usage. It's extremely corporate and Manhattan-centric. Its only international flights are to the Carribean, Central America, Mexico and Canada. You aren't getting the international tourists and the like; you're getting executives on corporate travel, who have black cars waiting.

chris08876 Aug 3, 2013 2:28 AM
Some of the current work going on. Terminal 4 at JFK also mentioned.

Delta Puts $160 Million Into NYC Expansion

Mayor Michael Bloomberg is helping Delta Air Lines celebrate the start of a $160 million terminal expansion at LaGuardia Airport. The mayor and Lt. Gov. Robert Duffy were on hand for the ceremonial groundbreaking Wednesday.

• Video Link
==========
AssociatedPress, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQwZzpiIajA

mrnyc Aug 3, 2013 1:15 PM
any terminal reconstruction should include more than just identifying and saving right of way for rail transit, it should also include at least some preconstruction. if there is going to be this level of construction disruption lets get more out of it.

NYguy Aug 3, 2013 9:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eveningsong (Post 6219109)
They want to extend the subway/commuter rail here?
There's been talk for years of extending subway service to LaGaurdia, there was even a plan for it at one point. But as noted earlier, there are more pressing concerns for additional subway service that are not being met either. Adding subway or any type of rail service to the airport seems vital to improving service there, but it would be just a small percentage of the overall service in the city. The airport itself really needs to be brought into the modern world. They could build a teleportation service that would get you from Manhattan to the airport in a split second, and it wouldn't change the level of amazement from seeing a gateway to one of the world's great cities in the condition that it is.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mrnyc (Post 6220370)
any terminal reconstruction should include more than just identifying and saving right of way for rail transit, it should also include at least some preconstruction. if there is going to be this level of construction disruption lets get more out of it.
If they can do that, they can just build the whole thing. There's a whole wish list of things we can have, but the reality is different.




http://secondavenuesagas.com/2010/01...-to-laguardia/

Quote:
Over the last few decades, city officials have become quite intimate with the problems plaguing LaGuardia, and many have tried to fix it. The N train, whose northern terminus is less than three miles away from the LaGuardia terminals, is so tantalizing close to the airport and yet so far away.

...Last week, in his “Why Train” segment, NBC 4′s Andrew Siff posted just this question. “What about the train to LGA?” asks Siff. In a one-minute piece, he mentioned how, 12 years ago, city and MTA officials were heavily invested in a plan to extend the N to LaGuardia, but in the face of other pressing transit needs and widespread community opposition, the agency eventually shelved this much needed link to LaGuardia. So what then were the plans that engendered widespread community outrage and still cause politicians to chime in now and then, nearly a decade after the MTA discarded the idea? Let’s hop in the Wayback Machine and explore some Giuliani-Era transit developments.

The plans to extend the N to LaGuardia first came to light in 1998 as city officials recognized the need to build better access to the airports. As part of a $1.2 billion package with funding coming from the MTA, the Port Authority and the city, Giuiliani put forth a plan to build an airtrain to JFK and extend the subway to LaGuardia. The JFK line — built over preexisting rights-of-way — survived. The LaGuardia plans, obviously, did not....

In the end, despite opposition, political support for the plan from City Hall continued well into the 21st Century. With the backing of Mayor Guiliani and Queens Borough President Clare Shulman, the MTA’s 2000-2004 Five-Year Capital Plan included $645 million for the LaGuardia subway link, and even though a $17 million planning study was the project’s only expense, in late 2002, Mayor Bloomberg threw his weight behind the LaGuardia extension as a key post-9/11 revitalization plan.

Finally, in mid-2003, the Queens communities won the battle as the MTA announced plans to shelve the airport extension. With money tight after 9/11 and Lower Manhattan on the radar, then-MTA Chair Peter Kalikow said that the agency’s attention had turned to the JFK Raillink from Lower Manhattan, another plan that never materialized, and that the agency was prioritizing the 7 Line Extension, the East Side Access Plan and the Second Ave. Subway over the LaGuardia N train extension. “LaGuardia is a good project, but you have to prioritize,” Elliot Sander, then at NYU, said. “In terms of political support from City Hall, Albany and Washington, it’s moved back in the queue.”
You can read more of that there, but that's that for now. The focus remains on rebuilding at the airport itself, until some extra funding and support comes to build rail.

sbarn Aug 3, 2013 11:25 PM
I had a 6pm flight out of La Guardia recently and it took over an hour and a half to get there from Chelsea by cab. Any rail or bus options would have taken nearly the same amount of time. Bringing rail to the airport should be a top priority IMO.

chris08876 Aug 4, 2013 1:20 AM
Proposed M60 SBS Stations

http://web.mta.info/mta/planning/sbs...S-Stations.jpg

Proposed 125th Street Bus Stops
http://web.mta.info/mta/planning/sbs...-Bus-Stops.jpg
===============
NYCDOT, http://web.mta.info/mta/planning/sbs/lga_analysis.html

Roadcruiser1 Aug 4, 2013 6:46 AM
Me and plenty of New Yorkers would love to see a subway extension to LaGuardia Airport, but there is one big problem. The neighborhood of Astoria is full of NIMBY's. They don't want the Astoria Elevated tracks to continue running down their neighborhood and ruining their property values. This is a proven fact as the (MTA) proposed this back in 2000.

An N or Q line extension would do wonders for LaGuardia Airport and it won't have to go far, but the neighborhood will throw a sissy fit..........



Quote:
Originally Posted by chris08876 (Post 6220872)
This idea failed. The NIMBY's in Harlem doesn't want this running through their neighborhood. Some Newspapers highlighted that this was due to racism as they feared that white people would use it, but I don't know if this is true..........

NYguy Aug 4, 2013 11:28 AM
I think we're dwelling too much on transportation issues, which is not really what this thread is about. It wouldn't surprise me if the winning team had some sort of plan for implementing rail in the future, but the focus for now is on rebuilding at the airport itself.

A look at some improvements over the past year from Delta...


http://www.airlinereporter.com/2013/...er-experience/

Not Your Grandpa’s LaGuardia Airport: Delta Improves the Passenger Experience


http://www.airlinereporter.com/wp-co...HcWFATSD73.jpg


By Jason Rabinowitz
February 12th, 2013


Quote:
While attending school in Michigan from 2008 to 2012, I flew home to New York City on Delta Air Lines quite often. The schedule from Detroit Metro (DTW) to John F. Kennedy (JFK) was quite lite, with only a small handful of flights per day, while most flights went to LaGuardia (LGA). I did everything within my power to avoid flying into LGA. Even if it meant paying slightly more, I did not want anything to do with LGA. Deltas terminal at LGA was cramped, overcrowded, and lacked any food options of a higher quality than Burger King. LGA was a downright unpleasant experience. Flash forward to 2012 and Delta began their “Win New York” program, involving expanded flight schedules and spending massive amounts of money to revamp the passenger experience.

In the summer of 2012, Delta purchased a majority of US Airways landing slots at LGA, becoming the dominant carrier at the airport and expanding into terminal C. While construction in terminal C is still on-going and not expected to be complete for quite some time, the transformation of terminal D is astounding. I was invited by Delta recently to check out the new improvements. For the time being, the check in and security areas remain unchanged. Once you move beyond the entry way, however, changes are immediately visible. The first thing passengers will see after moving through security is a brand new food court and shopping area. I am happy to report that Burger King is gone, replaced by Taste of Custom Burgers by Pat La Frieda.

Feel like having a glass of wine and a full service meal? Take a seat at Taste of Prime Tavern. Maybe you just want a cup of coffee, or a bag of chips? It’s all available in the new food court. These restaurants are referred to as a “taste of” because once the check in area is expanded, these restaurants will be expanding as well.

Flyers of competing New York airline jetBlue may find this food court familiar, and they should. The company behind the redevelopment of terminal D at LGA is OTG, the same company that operates the food shops at JFK terminal 5. Many design elements of the food court are similar to that at JFK. Adjacent to the food court are a few small shops, but they aren’t your typical magazine and soda shops. One store features high end products from Brooklyn Industries, a bit different that the usual “I <3 NY” shirts you typically find.

Beyond the food court, terminal D has had every detail upgraded. Expanding on a pilot program at JFK, Delta and OTG has placed iPads everywhere. Nearly every seat and table has an iPad propped up, waiting for passengers to interact. When first touched, the iPad prompts the passenger to select their flight, so that any status updates about their can be sent to them. After that, highly visual menus appear, inviting the passenger to order up some food, or even purchase some souvenirs before their flight. After paying with the attached credit card reader, orders are delivered to the passenger’s seat in about 10 minutes.

I came across a passenger using an iPad while waiting for her flight, and asked her what she was using it for. She explained that she was actually accessing her bank account, and that she much preferred using the iPads rather than her own phone. Access to the internet is free with the iPads, but wifi for personal devices is not, which may explain why some passengers would chose to use the iPad. Whatever the motivation for use, this amenity seems to be a hit.

The real highlight of the renovated terminal are the restaurant options. Marcelo Surerus, Manager of OTG at Delta’s Terminal D at LGA, showed off the wonderful restaurant options his team has worked to bring passengers. I was able to taste generous portions of pizza, sushi, seafood, steak and fries, even chocolate and vanilla gelato for dessert. All of the food was seriously tasty and competition for some of the best restaurants in New York City.

After Delta took over terminal C from US Airways, they quickly built a connecting bridge to terminal D. Terminal C is not up to the same level as D quite yet; there is still quite a bit of work left to be done. Some restaurants are still under construction; however, the SkyClub is open for business. If you find yourself with enough time before your flight, it is worth the walk over to terminal D for a better food selection.

It is clear that Delta is taking its “Win New York” program seriously. The airline’s LGA terminals have seen a complete overhaul and expansion, while a brand new terminal is being built at JFK. After a short period of time, I no longer avoid LGA- I prefer it. The experience at JFK for Delta is currently far below that of LGA, a change I am sure most people did not see coming. Next time you find yourself at LGA with a few hours before your flight, try the steak- medium rare.

http://www.airlinereporter.com/wp-co...ZkY5wycbGs.jpg
Taste Of Prime Tavern at LGA Terminal D


http://www.airlinereporter.com/wp-co...X5sa33DIoM.jpg
Keep an eye on your flight status while at the sushi bar


http://www.airlinereporter.com/wp-co...DuSgYdghoM.jpg
iPads everywhere!


http://www.airlinereporter.com/wp-co...RfOuXbZAqT.jpg
Steak and fries at LGA terminal D. So good, I had to ask how it was prepared.


http://www.airlinereporter.com/wp-co...tQDG2GtbBr.jpg__http://www.airlinereporter.com/wp-co...eY5amODSMK.jpg



http://www.airlinereporter.com/wp-co...YpLpnBqnoC.jpg__http://www.airlinereporter.com/wp-co...obPGHMwAbs.jpg



http://www.airlinereporter.com/wp-co...Cr-Kor2P5Z.jpg__http://www.airlinereporter.com/wp-co...DYvxkNL0Eu.jpg



http://www.airlinereporter.com/wp-co...LpbCuZBL5h.jpg__http://www.airlinereporter.com/wp-co...1JHc5Iuut2.jpg

NYguy Jan 12, 2014 1:56 PM
http://nypost.com/2014/01/08/gov-cuo...wark-airports/

Gov. Cuomo to call for state control of JFK, LaGuardia airports


By Tara Palmeri
January 8, 2014


Quote:
Gov. Cuomo on Wednesday will call for the Port Authority to give up control of stalled renovation projects at Kennedy and LaGuardia and place them under the command of the state, sources told The Post.

Cuomo will make the announcement during his State of the State address in the Capitol.

Cuomo hinted Tuesday during a press conference in Albany with Vice President Joe Biden that he was going to intercede to speed up upgrades at the city’s airports. Biden complained that the nation’s transit hubs are falling apart.

“The most modern airports and ports are in other parts of the world,” the veep said, and Cuomo agreed.

“You’re exactly right about the airports. Even here in New York, LaGuardia and JFK are inexcusable, frankly, that they haven’t been redeveloped to keep pace with the best international airports. That’s something we’re going to attend to,” Cuomo told Biden.



http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/...07101948275962

New La Guardia Terminal Poses Stress Test
Many Have Long Wanted a Replacement for La Guardia Airport's Central Terminal Building and Now May Get It


By Ted Mann
Jan. 7, 2014


Quote:
Travelers, commentators and politicians have long clamored for a replacement for La Guardia Airport's Central Terminal Building, and the multibillion project is slated to move forward this spring with the selection of a winning team of bidders to rebuild and operate the facility.

But while work on the terminal should help travelers at one of the country's busiest airports, the complexity and difficulty of the project will pose a challenge for the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, according to individuals familiar with the behind-the-scenes discussions on the project's design and financing.

It will be, one individual familiar with the effort said, "the most complicated construction project in the country" when primary work begins, sometime after a winning bidder is selected in April or May.

An airline industry official put it differently. For airlines that operate in the terminal during a construction project that could take seven years or longer—not to mention travelers who will see airport roads and parking disrupted—it will be "a nightmare," this person said.

Gov. Andrew Cuomo hinted Tuesday that he would address improvements to La Guardia and Kennedy International Airport in his state of the state address on Wednesday, calling conditions at the two airports "inexcusable."

While Mr. Cuomo's remark suggested a desire to take political ownership of the long-planned project to improve the facilities, work at La Guardia has long been under way. The Port Authority's board has already committed more than $600 million in construction funds and begun some site work critical to the terminal project, including a power substation that Mr. Cuomo toured on the anniversary of superstorm Sandy.

The work that remains, however, will test the ability of construction, airline operations and finance partners alike, people on all sides of the discussions said this week.

The authority is in negotiations with four teams of bidders on the design and financing of the terminal, which the authority hopes to remake as a 35-gate expanse that can handle 17.5 million passengers a year by 2030, roughly half of the airport's expected traffic that year. But to do so, the winning bidder will have to demolish the existing 1964 terminal building and build a replacement in a tightly constrained footprint, while continuing to operate a functioning terminal for millions of annual customers at the city's primary airport for business travel.

The authority has said the project could cost around $3.6 billion. People familiar with the discussions on the scope and financing predicted the final price tag could grow larger, although the total cost figure and schedule are unclear.

The new terminal will be built on the area of roadways, ramps and parking facilities that sits between the existing terminal and the Grand Central Parkway.

La Guardia's Central Terminal Building "is widely acknowledged to be one of the worst terminals in the country, and the pictures of overcrowding there we saw this week were just the latest example of the problem," said Joseph Sitt, chairman of the Global Gateway Alliance, which advocates improvements to the region's airports. "Turning the CTB into a 21st century terminal will be a huge step in changing both the perception and the reality of New York area airports."

fleonzo Jan 12, 2014 3:17 PM
I HATE flying out of and into La Guardia...it's perhaps one of the worst airports I've ever been to including the ones in Guatemala and El Salvador! The main complaint I have with JFK is the DAMN Van Wick Expy which is always a mess!!!:hell:

NYguy Jan 12, 2014 10:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fleonzo (Post 6403596)
I HATE flying out of and into La Guardia...it's perhaps one of the worst airports I've ever been to including the ones in Guatemala and El Salvador! The main complaint I have with JFK is the DAMN Van Wick Expy which is always a mess!!!:hell:
Take the Airtrain out of JFK, and no headache.

A clip I took in November.


• Video Link

vkristof Jan 12, 2014 10:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYguy (Post 6403565)
http://nypost.com/2014/01/08/gov-cuo...wark-airports/

Gov. Cuomo to call for state control of JFK, LaGuardia airports


By Tara Palmeri
January 8, 2014







http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/...07101948275962

New La Guardia Terminal Poses Stress Test
Many Have Long Wanted a Replacement for La Guardia Airport's Central Terminal Building and Now May Get It


By Ted Mann
Jan. 7, 2014
Thanks for the links.

Personally, I see this as an above-ground version of the MTA/LIRR Eeast Side Access.
Namely a complicated project in a dense area that is run by a state agency/authority/whatever that comes in years late and over budget. Hopefully not as overbudget as LIRR ESA, since LGA is NOT going underground significantly.

PS: the concept (I don't any facts) of an underground heavy rail/subway terminal at LGA under the new terminal gives me the willies from the standpoint of groundwater control

k1052 Jan 12, 2014 11:23 PM
Just extend AirTrain from Jamaica to LGA and call it a day for rail access. Astoria is never going to let the N get extended.

Nobody is going to complain about the expenditure since it would be mostly PA money and everyone likes JFK AirTrain already.

drumz0rz Jan 14, 2014 2:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busy Bee (Post 6219282)
Agreed. As for the prelim schematic showing a possible heavy rail allignment, I must say I wish they would plan and build ahead of time a subterranean station in the lowest level,of the terminal and a future connection could tunnel under the GC and be completely climate controlled. Who wants to arrive at LGA in the winter with their fine luggage and stand at a windswept elevated platform? All that should be inside the terminal itself and that has to be planned for NOW.
Building a subway would be extremely expensive and would come with many technical challenges including the fact that LGA sits on the water with a very shallow water table. During Sandy there was a foot of standing water covering the airport. Imagine what that would do to a subway.

An elevated light rail like the AirTrain is the ideal solution. I'd imagine even if the platform was disconnected from the terminal building, they would employ platform screen doors - glass walls - to keep the platform insulated and climate controlled.

BBMW Jan 21, 2014 10:39 PM
I don't know why they aren't looking at major air side changes. This would make things much more efficient both at LGA and JFK.

They should get rid of the 4-22 runway, and add another 13-31. This way they can use both runways at full capacity simultaneously. Also the runway 4 approach can interfere with the use of the 13 runways a JFK.

Getting rid of 4-22 would also free up a lot of land at it's 22 end (near the Grand Central Parkway.) This would be a good place to move the terminal complex. Demoing the old terminals would free up the land to build the new 13-31 runway (what would be 13L-31R.) They should also add some landfill or build platforms to extend the runways a few thousand feet. As they are they're too short.

BTW, shouldn't this thread be in the transportation forum?

Submariner Jan 22, 2014 12:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYguy (Post 6403913)
Take the Airtrain out of JFK, and no headache.

A clip I took in November.


• Video Link
The only problem is, the Jamaica subway platform is a s**thole.

It would be interesting if they could have Air Train cars that ran on existing subway lines from GCT or Penn to Jamaica Station and from there, continue service along the elevate portion as normal. There should be a quick, no-transfer way to get from JFK to Manhattan. Many cities (especially in Asia) are doing this and it's quite a nice experience. Naturally, there are logistics I am not considering (or don't even understand) but it would probably be much cheaper than say, building a dedicated link from Manhattan to JFK.

The other thing to consider is that many foreign travelers are accustomed to (or might desire) a better link between JFK and Manhattan. It would be a selling point for some companies to advertise "quick, simple, direct" transportation from JFK to Manhattan, especially on a dedicate train that is a bit nicer than a typical subway car.

k1052 Jan 22, 2014 1:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner (Post 6416510)
The only problem is, the Jamaica subway platform is a s**thole.

It would be interesting if they could have Air Train cars that ran on existing subway lines from GCT or Penn to Jamaica Station and from there, continue service along the elevate portion as normal. There should be a quick, no-transfer way to get from JFK to Manhattan. Many cities (especially in Asia) are doing this and it's quite a nice experience. Naturally, there are logistics I am not considering (or don't even understand) but it would probably be much cheaper than say, building a dedicated link from Manhattan to JFK.

The other thing to consider is that many foreign travelers are accustomed to (or might desire) a better link between JFK and Manhattan. It would be a selling point for some companies to advertise "quick, simple, direct" transportation from JFK to Manhattan, especially on a dedicate train that is a bit nicer than a typical subway car.
The AirTrain ROW was designed to be compatible with a to be built hybrid car that would be compatible with LIRR. Designing such a car and doing the ROW work to connect both airports to the LIRR would cost a pretty penny that neither the MTA or the PA remotely wants to part with.

Given the demands already upon NYCT, dedicated subway trains (of questionable practicality) are pretty much a non-starter. LIRR will have lots of frequency out of both sides of midtown when the ESA opens. I'd prefer the PA generally focus on rebuilding it's dilapidated airports and doing so quickly.

drumz0rz Jan 22, 2014 6:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBMW (Post 6416378)
I don't know why they aren't looking at major air side changes. This would make things much more efficient both at LGA and JFK.

They should get rid of the 4-22 runway, and add another 13-31. This way they can use both runways at full capacity simultaneously. Also the runway 4 approach can interfere with the use of the 13 runways a JFK.

Getting rid of 4-22 would also free up a lot of land at it's 22 end (near the Grand Central Parkway.) This would be a good place to move the terminal complex. Demoing the old terminals would free up the land to build the new 13-31 runway (what would be 13L-31R.) They should also add some landfill or build platforms to extend the runways a few thousand feet. As they are they're too short.
It's an interesting proposal, however short of the existing runway 13-31, you're pretty much razing and rebuilding the entire LaGuardia Airport which would cost a fortune and just isn't feasible.

Going with your idea though, you could move the Marine Air Terminal into the corner currently occupied by Delta, and build a sort of checkmark shaped set of terminals with parking structure filling in the current end of runway 4-22.

Like you said, you could easily extend both the existing 13-31 and new 13-31 to accommodate larger aircraft.

It would be interesting trying to squeeze in parallel approaches though considering the current approach to 31 is already very tight to appease NIMBYs.

BBMW Jan 28, 2014 9:29 PM
They're already planning to build a new terminal. I'm just making it bigger (to replace all the terminals (not just the main terminal.) My main addition is removing and replacing a runway. The airport could be kept open while all this is happening. For some time, it may have to go down to one runway. The length of this period could be kept fairly short.

Doing this not only untangles LGA (the crossing runways limiting their simultaneous use), but also untangles JFK from LGA. The increase operating rates would generate significant revenue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drumz0rz (Post 6417703)
It's an interesting proposal, however short of the existing runway 13-31, you're pretty much razing and rebuilding the entire LaGuardia Airport which would cost a fortune and just isn't feasible.

Going with your idea though, you could move the Marine Air Terminal into the corner currently occupied by Delta, and build a sort of checkmark shaped set of terminals with parking structure filling in the current end of runway 4-22.

Like you said, you could easily extend both the existing 13-31 and new 13-31 to accommodate larger aircraft.

It would be interesting trying to squeeze in parallel approaches though considering the current approach to 31 is already very tight to appease NIMBYs.

mrnyc Jan 29, 2014 3:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by k1052 (Post 6403993)
Just extend AirTrain from Jamaica to LGA and call it a day for rail access. Astoria is never going to let the N get extended.

Nobody is going to complain about the expenditure since it would be mostly PA money and everyone likes JFK AirTrain already.
not everybody likes the airtrain -- the shuttlebusses were free and now you have to pay for the airtrain. also, its more expensive than a subway ride, so it doesnt accept monthly metrocards. boo and hiss!

k1052 Jan 29, 2014 5:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrnyc (Post 6427396)
not everybody likes the airtrain -- the shuttlebusses were free and now you have to pay for the airtrain. also, its more expensive than a subway ride, so it doesnt accept monthly metrocards. boo and hiss!
You seriously want to go back to shuttle busses?

mrnyc Jan 30, 2014 12:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by k1052 (Post 6428038)
You seriously want to go back to shuttle busses?
i seriously want to go back to free. or at least match the cost of a subway ride. not to mention, the airtrain doesn't make much better time than the busses did.

antinimby Jan 30, 2014 1:50 AM
Dude, it costs billions to build and millions to operate and maintain. They can't let people ride for free.

Even subway fares are/will be going up, too.

k1052 Jan 30, 2014 1:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrnyc (Post 6428890)
i seriously want to go back to free. or at least match the cost of a subway ride. not to mention, the airtrain doesn't make much better time than the busses did.
AirTrain is faster and FAR more pleasant than the shuttle buses. Hell, Chicago recently instituted double pricing for entering the CTA system at the airport and we didn't even get anything new for it.

I wold be overjoyed to see AirTrain extended to LGA. I book into JFK because of the transport options, often at a hefty premium to going into LGA.

M. Incandenza Jan 30, 2014 3:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrnyc (Post 6428890)
i seriously want to go back to free. or at least match the cost of a subway ride. not to mention, the airtrain doesn't make much better time than the busses did.
It wouldn't be free; the cost would just be borne as taxes. And since it would be a eservice used mainly be a segment of the population (airline passengers) that skews wealthy, it would amount to a subsidy for better-off folks.

BBMW Feb 7, 2014 3:56 PM
They should just make a spur off the N line at at Astoria Blvd, that runs over the Grand Central Parkway into LGA. I'd run another train on that line that goes to LGA and not Ditmars.

I thought of this years ago, but just recently saw something about this on Curbed.

BBMW Feb 7, 2014 4:02 PM
Apparently our beloved vice president is not a fan of LGA

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/poli...icle-1.1604900

k1052 Feb 7, 2014 4:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBMW (Post 6441395)
They should just make a spur off the N line at at Astoria Blvd, that runs over the Grand Central Parkway into LGA. I'd run another train on that line that goes to LGA and not Ditmars.

I thought of this years ago, but just recently saw something about this on Curbed.
Substantial flyover infrastructure would need to be created and the Astoria Blvd station probably relocated. Ideas that would go over like a lead balloon.

BBMW Feb 7, 2014 9:33 PM
No. The El would have to be widened a bit south the station, and it would have to be double decked over the station. It could then be split out over the station and Astoria and Hoyt Aves (there a little triangle there that would give right of way), and taken out over the Grand Central. The LGA trains would not stop at the Astoria Blvd station.

It would be the normal construction nightmare for a project of this magnitude. But being someone who's living through the Second Ave Subway construction, there are some thing you just have to put up with.

It could be done, and it would impact few enough people that it could get passed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by k1052 (Post 6441417)
Substantial flyover infrastructure would need to be created and the Astoria Blvd station probably relocated. Ideas that would go over like a lead balloon.

mrnyc Feb 7, 2014 10:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by M. Incandenza (Post 6429630)
It wouldn't be free; the cost would just be borne as taxes. And since it would be a eservice used mainly be a segment of the population (airline passengers) that skews wealthy, it would amount to a subsidy for better-off folks.
obvs i meant free to riders, as it was in the case of the pre-airtrain busses. thats part of an airport tax. so not a tax on everybody, only flyers. but since the bus era has passed and the airtrain is here, it would be nice if monthly, ie. regular local riders, could use it with their metrocards instead of the high fee.

Crawford Feb 8, 2014 12:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by k1052 (Post 6429473)
I wold be overjoyed to see AirTrain extended to LGA. I book into JFK because of the transport options, often at a hefty premium to going into LGA.
If your destination is Manhattan, JFK has the worst transit options.

LGA is the closest to Manhattan by transit, then Newark, then JFK. Probably once the PATH is fully extended to Newark, it will be even more convenient than LGA, but, until then LGA is a quicker route, even if it's by bus or by bus/rail. The new bus line is nonstop to the train.

k1052 Feb 8, 2014 1:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBMW (Post 6442055)
No. The El would have to be widened a bit south the station, and it would have to be double decked over the station. It could then be split out over the station and Astoria and Hoyt Aves (there a little triangle there that would give right of way), and taken out over the Grand Central. The LGA trains would not stop at the Astoria Blvd station.

It would be the normal construction nightmare for a project of this magnitude. But being someone who's living through the Second Ave Subway construction, there are some thing you just have to put up with.

It could be done, and it would impact few enough people that it could get passed.
Messing AT ALL with the elevated will bring people out of the woodwork in Astoria. You are vastly underestimating the political opposition this would run into.

k1052 Feb 8, 2014 1:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 6442305)
If your destination is Manhattan, JFK has the worst transit options.

LGA is the closest to Manhattan by transit, then Newark, then JFK. Probably once the PATH is fully extended to Newark, it will be even more convenient than LGA, but, until then LGA is a quicker route, even if it's by bus or by bus/rail. The new bus line is nonstop to the train.
I don't want to risk traffic if flying close to rush, which I often have to do. My destination is generally midtown or downtown Brooklyn on about a 50-50 basis.

Newark would become a more attractive option when PATH is extended.

antinimby Feb 8, 2014 6:56 AM
The PA just announced a few days ago that they are going to extend the PATH to EWR.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/...icle-1.1601857

Submariner Feb 8, 2014 1:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antinimby (Post 6442645)
The PA just announced a few days ago that they are going to extend the PATH to EWR.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/...icle-1.1601857
It's going to cost them 1.5 billion dollars and take them 10 years to build two miles of above ground track?

Are you kidding me?

BBMW Feb 8, 2014 7:01 PM
Doing this way would make the disruption so localized that it could get through, especially as the deficiencies of the NY airports are becoming a bigger issue. How many city council, state assembly, state senate, and congressional districts would be disrupted? Likely one of each. That wouldn't be enough to stop it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by k1052 (Post 6442374)
Messing AT ALL with the elevated will bring people out of the woodwork in Astoria. You are vastly underestimating the political opposition this would run into.

BBMW Feb 8, 2014 7:15 PM
Whenever I go to JFK now (from the UES of Manhattan), I use the Airtrain. This works pretty well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 6442305)
If your destination is Manhattan, JFK has the worst transit options.

LGA is the closest to Manhattan by transit, then Newark, then JFK. Probably once the PATH is fully extended to Newark, it will be even more convenient than LGA, but, until then LGA is a quicker route, even if it's by bus or by bus/rail. The new bus line is nonstop to the train.

Submariner Feb 8, 2014 8:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBMW (Post 6443026)
Whenever I go to JFK now (from the UES of Manhattan), I use the Airtrain. This works pretty well.
The Airtrain is fine, I just wish there was a non-stop option from one of Manhattans major transit hubs.

k1052 Feb 8, 2014 11:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBMW (Post 6442991)
Doing this way would make the disruption so localized that it could get through, especially as the deficiencies of the NY airports are becoming a bigger issue. How many city council, state assembly, state senate, and congressional districts would be disrupted? Likely one of each. That wouldn't be enough to stop it.
The logic doesn't matter. If any proposal includes additional elevated structure (no matter how minimal) in Astoria it is DOA. NIMBYs will use the original N extension plan to whip up opposition....the same kind that successfully killed the earlier proposal.


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