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Busy Bee Aug 13, 2022 6:19 PM

Just a little trivial factoid but 33rd wasn't supposed to be the terminal as the Hudson & Manhattan under McAdoo was planning to take the line to Grand Central Terminal.

mrnyc Aug 13, 2022 9:14 PM

congestion pricing is on the way :tup:



CONGESTION PRICING

How Does Congestion Pricing Work? What to Know About the Toll System Taking Manhattan


The idea’s been kicked around by politicians and transit advocates for years but never tried in the U.S. Here’s a guide on what it all means, whom it will affect — and when we may actually see it in New York.

BY RACHEL HOLLIDAY SMITH AND JOSE MARTINEZ
ADDITIONAL REPORTING BY JOSE MARTINEZ


For decades, New York leaders have played with the idea of tolling car traffic in the city’s central core.

Now, as people and traffic slowly return to Manhattan’s center and climate change keeps punching the city in the gut, the push for so-called congestion pricing — to help reduce traffic-related emissions and raise money for mass transit — is gathering steam in earnest.

The idea was born in New York, then adopted in several overseas cities, but has never been tried anywhere in the United States. A bill from Albany gave New York’s plan the green light in 2019, but a lack of action by the Federal Highway Administration under then-President Donald Trump delayed the program.

As traffic surges again, a critical player for the concept, Gov. Kathy Hochul, has signaled her full support for the idea — despite waffling on the idea earlier on the campaign trail — and so has Mayor Eric Adams. The Biden administration is behind the plan, too.


more:
https://www.thecity.nyc/2021/9/15/22...m-in-manhattan



CONGESTION PRICING

MTA Eyes Congestion Pricing Toll of Up to $23 Per Vehicle Trip into Manhattan
Transit officials say more pros than cons lie ahead as they cruise toward launching fees for drivers entering the city’s traffic-clogged core.

BY JOSE MARTINEZ AND RACHEL HOLLIDAY SMITH
ADDITIONAL REPORTING BY SHANTEL DESTRA


The years-long effort to toll vehicles in the most congested parts of Manhattan as a way to bankroll billions of dollars in mass-transit improvements and reduce traffic is no longer stuck in neutral.

New York’s system would be the first time tolls would be used in the United States to reduce traffic-related emissions.

Today officials released the long-delayed “environmental assessment” of the proposed Central Business District Tolling Program — touting how it could potentially cut congestion coming into the core of Manhattan by nearly 20%, improve air quality, boost bus service reliability and increase mass transit usage.

The document also outlined what the program may cost drivers entering the toll zone: between $5 and $23 per trip, depending on the time of day and the type of vehicle.

... the program that aims to fund $15 billion of subway, bus and commuter rail improvements as part of the MTA’s 2020 to 2024 Capital Plan now appears to be on track, with virtual public hearings set for later this month.

“Bottom line: this is good for the environment, good for public transit and good for New York and the region,” Janno Lieber, MTA chairperson and CEO, said in a statement.


more:
https://www.thecity.nyc/2022/8/10/23...g-toll-details

TowerDude Aug 13, 2022 9:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k1052 (Post 9701751)
Why are people suggesting PATH be extended from 33rd (which physically cannot be done) to connect to Penn when we could just wait a few years for Penn 15 to be complete and people can easily walk the connection once again?

You can't have a westward spur from the 33td Street PATH station at 30th Street that would go past Penn Station, under or next to to the 7 and L train stops I proposed and proceed into its own Hudson Tunnel to s station in Secaucus/Union City? http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-naAcIEMTIB...0/path-map.jpg

The North PATH Hudson Tunnel (lets call it that) could be dug UNDER the Gateway Tunnel to avoid conflicts.

Busy Bee Aug 13, 2022 10:23 PM

I think an incredibly strong argument could be made that the new Gateway tunnel should be 2 tubes for Amtrak/Heavy NJT commuter rail and another 2 tubes for some future PATH, NYCT or bi-agency rapid transit service to Hudson and Bergen counties, much in the same way the 63rd St tunnel was planned. Of course, a southern Manhattan and northern Manhattan entry/exit tubes rather than a pair of Midtown tubes could also be a solution.

mrnyc Aug 14, 2022 5:37 AM

^ yeah it seems very short sighted not to go for more tunnels while the gateway work is happening.


***


your shocking factoid of the day :eek:


The MTA has identified an elite club of 166 bridge-and-tunnel toll evaders who owe an average of $30,120 each.

ardecila Aug 14, 2022 1:56 PM

^ All city employees, no doubt...

k1052 Aug 14, 2022 4:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TowerDude (Post 9701933)
You can't have a westward spur from the 33td Street PATH station at 30th Street that would go past Penn Station, under or next to to the 7 and L train stops I proposed and proceed into its own Hudson Tunnel to s station in Secaucus/Union City? http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-naAcIEMTIB...0/path-map.jpg

The North PATH Hudson Tunnel (lets call it that) could be dug UNDER the Gateway Tunnel to avoid conflicts.

I doubt it if Penn South does get built. I don't see the utility anyway as PATH will again be reconnected to the Penn complex by foot relatively soon anyway.

The best opportunity for a PATH expansion was when they were rebuilding WTC but they decided to not bother. They could have gone into Brooklyn or run up the east side to GCT.

Busy Bee Aug 14, 2022 4:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k1052 (Post 9702275)

The best opportunity for a PATH expansion was when they were rebuilding WTC but they decided to not bother. They could have gone into Brooklyn or run up the east side to GCT.

Save that for a future rapid regional that I've been drawing in my head. Not only that but PATH could always head eastward and theoretically into Bklyn using the 9th St provision built into the original system. This would also do a good job of connecting the underserved LES.

TowerDude Aug 14, 2022 6:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k1052 (Post 9702275)
I doubt it if Penn South does get built. I don't see the utility anyway as PATH will again be reconnected to the Penn complex by foot relatively soon anyway.

The best opportunity for a PATH expansion was when they were rebuilding WTC but they decided to not bother. They could have gone into Brooklyn or run up the east side to GCT.

Its a big difference between being in walking distance of the 33rd Street PATH station and being within walking distance of Secaucus and/or Union City New Jersey.

TowerDude Aug 14, 2022 6:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busy Bee (Post 9702290)
Save that for a future rapid regional that I've been drawing in my head. Not only that but PATH could always head eastward and theoretically into Bklyn using the 9th St provision built into the original system. This would also do a good job of connecting the underserved LES.

There should be an LGA/JFK/WTC/EWR Airport express train.

UrbanImpact Aug 15, 2022 1:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TowerDude (Post 9702324)
There should be an LGA/JFK/WTC/EWR Airport express train.

In our dreams! Do you know how much that would cost!

k1052 Aug 15, 2022 2:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TowerDude (Post 9702323)
Its a big difference between being in walking distance of the 33rd Street PATH station and being within walking distance of Secaucus and/or Union City New Jersey.

If the goal is to provide attractive rail service to more people in Hudson County I'd say the 7 and L are much better bets. Not for the least of which reasons that you pay one fare and have a multitude of in-system transfer options to reach your destination.


Quote:

Originally Posted by TowerDude (Post 9702324)
There should be an LGA/JFK/WTC/EWR Airport express train.

I can't think why. What's needed is a frequent regional rail network that puts people within a relatively short AirTrain ride from the airports or in the case of LGA a short ride on NYCT subway extension to LGA. There isn't anything physically wrong with say the JFK AirTrain but PA and MTA have effectively conspired to make it an expensive miserable pain in the ass.

Busy Bee Aug 15, 2022 6:02 PM

Airtrain shmairtrain. Whats really needed is for the connection between EWR, JFK and LGA to be journeys along a rapid metro orbital.

mrnyc Aug 17, 2022 2:49 PM

it should probably stay an airtrain for security purposes.

let the pa keep responsibility instead of mta.

that said, if they want to build an astoria subway extension to lga fine by me -- just pick a plan already and git'r done.

Busy Bee Aug 17, 2022 2:59 PM

Security purposes?

mrnyc Aug 17, 2022 3:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busy Bee (Post 9704646)
Security purposes?

yeah, like mad bombers and general tracking of airport terrorists. that's one reason why we got the airtrain in the first place. from the pa point of view you don't want to leave any security to mta (or nj transit for that matter) if you are in charge of the airports, you would want to keep full control of all airport access points.

Busy Bee Aug 17, 2022 3:44 PM

"Security" is not why the half-assed Airtrain was planned and built. The whole thing was essentially a compromise after the realization that a direct express link by the MTA that in the doldrums of the 1990s had no funding and insufficient political advocacy. I don't see how it would make a difference whether or not an PANYNJ Airtrain or a MTA operated train as part of a regional network pulled into the general locale of the current terminal outside of screening and boarding. How would that be different than, O'Hare, or Dulles or nearly every European and Asian airport?

k1052 Aug 17, 2022 4:16 PM

JFK (and now EWR) layout is also not really great for a direct regional rail connection and there isn't a good way to avoid an ATS. EWR in particular should make their new ATS go to Newark Penn with a stop or two in the Ironbound for local transit.

Busy Bee Aug 17, 2022 5:36 PM

I'm not suggesting some sort of rapid regional rail make stops at every terminal but instead stop at an airport transport hub. An ATS would still exist to distribute people to each terminal.

k1052 Aug 17, 2022 7:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busy Bee (Post 9704876)
I'm not suggesting some sort of rapid regional rail make stops at every terminal but instead stop at an airport transport hub. An ATS would still exist to distribute people to each terminal.

If the MTA were half as competent as agencies in Europe I'd agree. Working with what we've got bulling the Port Authority into making the AirTrains better is probably more viable.


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