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-   -   CHICAGO: Transit Developments (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101657)

Jaroslaw Oct 24, 2007 9:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 3119541)
^ On top of Ardecila's point, I would add that the local leadership (Dorothy Tillman) was somewhat of a roadblock to development. The current Alderman is pretty supportive of new development in the area, but the problems that now remain are 1) crime 2) bad reputation & the legacy of public housing, and 3) a slower housing market. Nevertheless, plenty of recent initiatives have been taken to redevelop land directly around green line stops on the south side. The question is whether they will be successful.

Also, I can't fathom how Chicago will redevelop underutilized land if it cuts transit service to it. I understand your point, but Chicago's south and west sides have so much vacant land that by cutting bus/train service, you're basically giving up on it, which would only make it less desirable for future developers.

1. The renovated Green Line is not enough in itself to spur TOD on the south side. I think the same can be said about the blue line out west. Agreed?

2. "I can't fathom how Chicago will redevelop underutilized land if it cuts transit service to it." Think about this. Can Chicago afford to have transit service to "underutilized land"? Any good business goes after its best customers. These are the people on the brown, purple, and red line on the north side. I am NOT saying that the CTA should make money, I am saying that taking care of your best customers is a sound practice in the real world beyond government organizations. And especially when the CTA budget situation is so dire, you have to make tough choices. Of course, politics will prevent Chicago from doing what is best for itself, as so often in the past...

OhioGuy Oct 24, 2007 9:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VivaLFuego (Post 3124515)
Ditto the Blue Line; they'll be doing line cuts between Jeff Park and Harlem most but maybe not every weekend through the end of the year. I'd advise people going to/from O'hare any weekend the rest of the year to either allow alot of extra travel time or shell out for a taxi or shared van to save the headache.

Yikes. I'm glad I scheduled my upcoming trip to Houston next weekend for a Friday departure & a Tuesday arrival. I won't be stuck dealing with the blue line headaches. I had been wondering this week what all of the big equipment was for along the blue line between Jefferson Park & Harlem. Now I know.

I believe the CTA is supposed to be finished with their Red line track improvements by the end of the year, but how much longer will the Blue line improvements take?

OhioGuy Oct 24, 2007 9:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 3119541)
^ On top of Ardecila's point, I would add that the local leadership (Dorothy Tillman) was somewhat of a roadblock to development. The current Alderman is pretty supportive of new development in the area, but the problems that now remain are 1) crime 2) bad reputation & the legacy of public housing, and 3) a slower housing market. Nevertheless, plenty of recent initiatives have been taken to redevelop land directly around green line stops on the south side. The question is whether they will be successful.

I was quite :stunned: when I took the Green line down to the Garfield stop 2 weeks ago (on my way to Hyde Park). The rundown vacant lots along the track are just terrible. I sat there on the train imagining thousands & thousands of international visitors riding through the area on their way to the Olympic Stadium and thinking that this isn't a particularly good impression the city will be making on them, let alone the impression IOC voters will have if they opt to check out the public transit to the prospective Olympic Stadium site. Something needs to be done to spur TODs along the southside Green line.

VivaLFuego Oct 24, 2007 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaroslaw (Post 3124564)
And especially when the CTA budget situation is so dire, you have to make tough choices. Of course, politics will prevent Chicago from doing what is best for itself, as so often in the past...

Yep, CTA wanted to shut the green line down of course for this reason. But after you've saved the green line, you can't even talk about shutting down the cermak line. So you have to keep both. Oops.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ohioguy
I believe the CTA is supposed to be finished with their Red line track improvements by the end of the year, but how much longer will the Blue line improvements take?
[snip]
I was quite when I took the Green line down to the Garfield stop 2 weeks ago (on my way to Hyde Park). The rundown vacant lots along the track are just terrible. I sat there on the train imagining thousands & thousands of international visitors riding through the area on their way to the Olympic Stadium and thinking that this isn't a particularly good impression the city will be making on them, let alone the impression IOC voters will have if they opt to check out the public transit to the prospective Olympic Stadium site. Something needs to be done to spur TODs along the southside Green line.

How about immediately removing -any- density restrictions on any lot within 1/4 mile of a green line station? That would spur some development. Wishful thinking...

The tie work on the O'hare branch will last until November 2008, but the construction will be most painful in the places in the worst condition, like between Jeff Park and Harlem. I'd expect the first 6 months of construction to be worst and it to gradually get better and less intrusive, but there will be periodic line cuts for the next year.

Wright Concept Oct 25, 2007 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhioGuy (Post 3124611)
I was quite :stunned: when I took the Green line down to the Garfield stop 2 weeks ago (on my way to Hyde Park). The rundown vacant lots along the track are just terrible. I sat there on the train imagining thousands & thousands of international visitors riding through the area on their way to the Olympic Stadium and thinking that this isn't a particularly good impression the city will be making on them, let alone the impression IOC voters will have if they opt to check out the public transit to the prospective Olympic Stadium site. Something needs to be done to spur TODs along the southside Green line.

How about tearing down the steel L structure or rezone Lake Street into an alleyway rather than a boulevard? The only lots that seem to work for development are large parcels that will have to set back from the 'L' strucutre at least 50' and make Lake Avenue the side street rather than the main boulevard.

ArteVandelay Oct 25, 2007 1:55 AM

State street subway (Redline) will be closed the next 3 weekends, then they'll be a pause in the around Thanksgiving, followed by another long string of weekends breaking only around the holidays. At some point as next spring approaches all the half ties in the State st subway should be replaced.

Ohare branch line cuts between Jeff Park and Harlem will be every weekend between now and Xmas with a break only for Thanksgiving weekend. Then they'll be about 3 months off, followed by about 8-9 months of weekend line cuts every weekend until late 2008. At that point the Ohare branch will be entirely replaced.

Other blue line issues - single tracks will still be taking place in addition to the line cuts on most weekend nights in other locations. In another month or two half tie renewal should start up again in earnest in the Dearborn subway, with exact details TBD. Expect many line cuts again here as well.

Flip side of all this - in 18 months the track conditions system wide will be dramatically better then they are now, and even moreso then they were 6 months ago.

Chicago3rd Oct 25, 2007 2:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PracticalVisionary (Post 3124894)
How about tearing down the steel L structure or rezone Lake Street into an alleyway rather than a boulevard? The only lots that seem to work for development are large parcels that will have to set back from the 'L' strucutre at least 50' and make Lake Avenue the side street rather than the main boulevard.

Bet you never have been here. Don't go making me post all my photos of condos and apartments built right next to the EL on the north side...new ones. Some are even between the EL and the METRA line. So you idea seems sort of expensive and sensless.

OhioGuy Oct 25, 2007 4:33 PM

Ok, so the downstaters are having a fit in this article at the suggestion that the state of Illinois should help out the mass transit issues here in the Chicago area. I f&cking can't stand people from down there (as I imagine they can't stand people from up here).

Chicago3rd Oct 25, 2007 4:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhioGuy (Post 3126167)
Ok, so the downstaters are having a fit in this article at the suggestion that the state of Illinois should help out the mass transit issues here in the Chicago area. I f&cking can't stand people from down there (as I imagine they can't stand people from up here).

Why doesn't someone have enough balls in the political world to say look downstaters...you get this much more money per tax money you put in than the chicagoland area so shut up or loose it!

Marcu Oct 26, 2007 5:28 AM

Why should they care? They have absolutely nothing to gain (at least directly) and a lot to lose (having to tell their constituents that they have to pay into Chicago's mass transit). It's not that irrational. And every half-wttied politician knows there's no such thing as a tax for a particular program. It all goes to the general state budget so they're always running the risk of having to pay for the cta.

Chicago3rd Oct 26, 2007 2:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcu (Post 3127741)
Why should they care? They have absolutely nothing to gain (at least directly) and a lot to lose (having to tell their constituents that they have to pay into Chicago's mass transit). It's not that irrational. And every half-wttied politician knows there's no such thing as a tax for a particular program. It all goes to the general state budget so they're always running the risk of having to pay for the cta.

Then it is time for Chicago to take the extra money they are getting away...and let them live of the federal government...oops they do...the red part of the state has more federal and state money coming back to them than they give....the true welfare citizens of this state. Chicago area needs to correct once and for all and let the rest of Illinois sink or swim.

No more state funds (only the part they pay for) for their "FREEWAYS".
No more subsidizing AMTRACK and that way people in Chicago can go to St. Louis and other places without stopping at those nasty little welfare run counties/cities.
Hope they are paying for their little scrawny ass airports.....

Grego43 Oct 26, 2007 3:04 PM

I've said it before...Chicagoland should secede from the rubes in the red parts of the state and create North Illinois...let the rest of them sink or swim on their own. The economic engine that is Northeastern Illinois funds all those ignorant hayseeds.

Marcu Oct 26, 2007 3:50 PM

How ironic. The people on this board calling downstaters ignorant impoverished hicks are able to so effectively stereotype so many people over such a large area of land. Of course, most of these people have never actually been 'downstate' except for the gas station off I-57/55.

Not accounting for Chicago, downstate Illinois is actually right in line with the national average as far as income goes. It also has some of the world's biggest companies (State Farm, ADM, John Deere, Caterpillar). Amtrak is more beneficial for Chicago than any other part of the state. It mostly serves college students and faculty going to Champaign, Normal, Carbondale, etc from Chicago, business people going to Peoria, Decatur, Champaign, Bloomington, and Quad Cities, and downstaters going to Chicago to spend their money. The "freeways" were built under the interstate highway program. I-57 and I-55 happen to be free in Chicago too.

Oh yeah and the secede from the "red part of the state" line of thinking is how civil wars start (eg secede from those politically different than you because you can'tr get your way). Very thought out.

Well I'll be sure to see you all on the city discussion threads making fun of New Yorkers for not being able to see outside their own city.

OhioGuy Oct 26, 2007 4:00 PM

Yawn.

Wright Concept Oct 26, 2007 4:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicago3rd (Post 3125976)
Bet you never have been here. Don't go making me post all my photos of condos and apartments built right next to the EL on the north side...new ones. Some are even between the EL and the METRA line. So you idea seems sort of expensive and sensless.


Hey dude, I lived here for 6 years and rode the Green Line often to visit my family in Oak Park and graduated from IIT in Architecture where I had a design studio with a project sited on this Lake Street Green Line. Sorry if I wasn't clear as to where I refering to.

Sure there are apartments/condos next to the L but how are they positioned? Are they directly fronting the L, like buildings would be on Lake Street or will their backs/porces/fire stairs face the 'L'? Are they on the side next to the 'L' with a slightly thicker CMU/brick wall?

There's also a design factor involved as to where the steel structure on the 'L' is placed and how it affects the surroundings. In the Northside it's near a main street but not directly ON the main street so there are buildings that act as a buffer to the steel structure and their backsides are facing the 'L' to serve as a noise buffer rather than the direct front. On the Brown/Red Line is near Sheffield but not on it. The Ravenswood its near Ashland or Lawrence but not on it. The steel structure in those areas create virtual alleyways in the areas it serve, that is not a bad thing in a dense environment, these can function depending on the design and span of the structure as additional neighborhood parking in the Wrigleyville area or right-of-way for a partial alley. In addition on the Northside, the stations are closer together so that slows down and reduces the noise impacts that may occur so that buildings can be placed closer to the 'L'.

In the Loop, the sidewalks that operate under the streets are wider and have more stations within close proximity limiting the overall speed of the Loop which makes a steel elevated structure livable.

The Green Line on the Lake STREET segment is literally under Lake STREET (street being the operative word) so based upon those conditions and how the current projects that are being built are designed near the 'L' between Ashland and Western on the old public housing sites, how are they designing this? With wide setbacks away from the 'L' to counter direct noise in segments where the trains speed up to the 55 mph zone that can hinder building any kind of ground floor retail elements or any positive TOD's next to this 'L' which is the whole point of this discussion. On the Southside Ashland Green Line Branch there are a few developments and buildings that are planned and under construction right now (at least on my recent visit last week), why? Maybe placement of this steel structure may give you a clue.

Now this can be counteracted by adding more stops along the Lake Street line to slow the speed and allows for more opportunities for this. That is all I was saying. Right now with the L in it's current arrangement, the designs will treat Lake STREET like an alley rather than a boulevard which effects the TOD potential for this section of the Green Line.

Chicago2020 Oct 27, 2007 7:19 PM

dp

Chicago2020 Oct 27, 2007 7:22 PM

THE DAN RYAN IS OFFICIALLY COMPLETE!!!!

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/1...3382d2bld2.jpg

here's a pic from flickr courtesy of Jiachun GUO's

Marcu Oct 28, 2007 1:31 AM

Success. And only 400 million over budget.

ardecila Oct 28, 2007 5:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcu (Post 3130830)
Success. And only 400 million over budget.

How long until we have to do the damn thing again?

I am grateful that the CTA decided to coordinate Red Line renovations with the Dan Ryan project. That way, there won't be much inconvenience on either for several years.

VivaLFuego Oct 28, 2007 6:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 3131090)
How long until we have to do the damn thing again?

I am grateful that the CTA decided to coordinate Red Line renovations with the Dan Ryan project. That way, there won't be much inconvenience on either for several years.

Ideally, CTA's rehab would have been complete before the roadwork started (strike 1) and have included a Park n Ride facility (strike 2) to lure drivers onto transit.

Also, minor semantical point, the Dan Ryan isn't complete yet, they've just finally re-opened all the lanes. They've still got a few months of some assorted landscaping and concrete, then punchlist items. I don't think completion is until sometime around March or April.


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