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-   -   CHICAGO: Transit Developments (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101657)

Downtown Bolivar Feb 28, 2007 6:05 PM

That's a pretty ugly plan...sounds like it would create a huge scar on a recovering neighborhood. It would be much better to focus renovating and expaning the CTA.

Chicago Shawn Feb 28, 2007 6:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roseville (Post 2657299)
I don't think even a two lane truck road could run along much of that route without displacing homes...you'd have to anchor the platform to something (what, straddling and hovering over the Belt way since the freight lines don’t want to give it up?), and that would logically be the property on either side which is mostly residential from Jefferson Park through Grand Ave on the North side. And where would the entry and exit ramps go?

Yeah, no demolition would be impossible, the ROW is just too narrow in Old Irving, hell there is not even an embankment left where the railways cuts through the new Old Irving Village development phases. There could be a viaduct over the railway, but it would also be hovering over backyards and perhaps even rooftops if they really try to avoid all demolition, which could cost an enormous amount of money and additional engineering work, making it unfeasable. If it was placed on a platform over the embankment, then essentially this will be a minimum of three or four stories tall, and will look hideous.

roseville Feb 28, 2007 8:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicago Shawn (Post 2657472)
If it was placed on a platform over the embankment, then essentially this will be a minimum of three or four stories tall, and will look hideous.

Yep. And as the Belt Way crosses the Metra tracks just South of Irving Park Road, I would assume a flyover of a great height would be needed anyway...unless they plan on moving those tracks too. Sounds pretty stupid, doesn't it?

...and Lukecuj, please note that I did use the word 'despise' in reference to Mr. Roeder. I actually have a couple of other ways I refer to him also, but they are a bit on the crude side...and in Italian. You are totally right in what you say about his writing. I couldn't agree more.

Taft Feb 28, 2007 10:39 PM

More election related news. From crains...


Kruesi headed for exit at CTA?


(Crain’s) — City Hall sent a strong signal Wednesday that embattled Chicago Transit Authority (CTA) President Frank Kruesi may be leaving that post soon.

“In any administration, there are periods in which there is change. It’s no different with this administration,” Jacquelyn Heard, Mayor Richard M. Daley’s spokeswoman, replied when asked if Mr. Daley has someone else in mind to lead the CTA.

“The mayor’s attention has been focused on a lot of things including the election,” Ms. Heard added. “The election now is over.”

Political insiders for years have speculated on the future of Mr. Kruesi, who is one of Mr. Daley’s closest and oldest associates. But rumors have peaked in recent weeks as the CTA has struggled with a seemingly unending host of operational woes.
Advertisement
Related Article Topics | Related Industry News

In addition, the CTA is preparing to head to Springfield to seek more subsidies, but Mr. Kruesi has a rocky relationship with a key player there, Illinois House Speaker Michael Madigan.

Ms. Heard said no final decision had been made about the CTA job, but flatly denied a Chicago Sun-Times report that Mr. Kruesi will get a new post as head of the city’s huge O’Hare Modernization Program (OMP). The runway expansion project has suffered from cost overruns and delays, but Ms. Heard said Mr. Kruesi is not going there to replace current OMP chief Rosemarie Andolino.

Insiders reported that the mayor has begun talking to a variety of transportation experts about the CTA job. Ms. Heard said she has no idea who might be considered for the post but denied it would be Aviation Commissioner Nuria Fernandez, who “is doing a good job where she is.”

Mr. Kruesi and his spokeswoman were not available for comment.

MayorOfChicago Mar 1, 2007 12:21 AM

^

The news at 6 just announced that Kruesi is OUT. Holla!!

It was released via Crains

ardecila Mar 1, 2007 12:56 AM

One point about the Crosstown - from about Kinzie up to Montrose (Mayfair Junction) the Crosstown has an unused rail right-of-way. The Belt Ry. does not own this (Union Pacific does). However, Belt Ry. tracks do run parallel to the abandoned tracks for some portion.

This segment goes through Old Irving, Portage Park, etc. The space concerns in these neighborhoods will be resolved if the Crosstown can completely replace this rail line.

The dotted line represents this abandoned track.
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/4...wnnorthmh4.jpg

Altauria Mar 1, 2007 5:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Via Chicago (Post 2652316)
^^
ugh, i thought we had learned from our mistakes...guess not. hopefully its just a bunch of political hot air. heres a better idea, lets take all that money and put it towards expanding and improving our public transportation.

Although I think the crosstown would be a good idea, I definitely like your idea much better. (MUCH better)

j korzeniowski Mar 1, 2007 5:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MayorOfChicago (Post 2658133)
^

The news at 6 just announced that Kruesi is OUT. Holla!!

It was released via Crains

were only that true. daley vehemently denied reports of this.

roseville Mar 1, 2007 5:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 2658237)
One point about the Crosstown - from about Kinzie up to Montrose (Mayfair Junction) the Crosstown has an unused rail right-of-way. The Belt Ry. does not own this (Union Pacific does). However, Belt Ry. tracks do run parallel to the abandoned tracks for some portion.

This segment goes through Old Irving, Portage Park, etc. The space concerns in these neighborhoods will be resolved if the Crosstown can completely replace this rail line.

The dotted line represents this abandoned track.
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/4...wnnorthmh4.jpg

I can't figure out where the dotted-line tracks are from your map. When you say Mayfair and Cragin, do you mean the Mayfair and Cragin Metra stops? If so, I can't find any track passage which connects them.

If I'm looking at a map, are these the tracks which run West of Kolmar Ave. between Montrose and Irving, crossing the Metra tracks South of Irving and continuing along Kenton Ave. to Fullerton?

roseville Mar 1, 2007 5:53 PM

Double post - sorry.

MayorOfChicago Mar 1, 2007 7:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j korzeniowski (Post 2658790)
were only that true. daley vehemently denied reports of this.

thanks for shitting all over my dreams

trvlr70 Mar 1, 2007 8:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taft (Post 2657921)
More election related news. From crains...


Kruesi headed for exit at CTA?


(Crain’s) — City Hall sent a strong signal Wednesday that embattled Chicago Transit Authority (CTA) President Frank Kruesi may be leaving that post soon.

“In any administration, there are periods in which there is change. It’s no different with this administration,” Jacquelyn Heard, Mayor Richard M. Daley’s spokeswoman, replied when asked if Mr. Daley has someone else in mind to lead the CTA.

“The mayor’s attention has been focused on a lot of things including the election,” Ms. Heard added. “The election now is over.”

Political insiders for years have speculated on the future of Mr. Kruesi, who is one of Mr. Daley’s closest and oldest associates. But rumors have peaked in recent weeks as the CTA has struggled with a seemingly unending host of operational woes.
Advertisement
Related Article Topics | Related Industry News

In addition, the CTA is preparing to head to Springfield to seek more subsidies, but Mr. Kruesi has a rocky relationship with a key player there, Illinois House Speaker Michael Madigan.

Ms. Heard said no final decision had been made about the CTA job, but flatly denied a Chicago Sun-Times report that Mr. Kruesi will get a new post as head of the city’s huge O’Hare Modernization Program (OMP). The runway expansion project has suffered from cost overruns and delays, but Ms. Heard said Mr. Kruesi is not going there to replace current OMP chief Rosemarie Andolino.

Insiders reported that the mayor has begun talking to a variety of transportation experts about the CTA job. Ms. Heard said she has no idea who might be considered for the post but denied it would be Aviation Commissioner Nuria Fernandez, who “is doing a good job where she is.”

Mr. Kruesi and his spokeswoman were not available for comment.

I only pray the OMP position is a complete fabrication. Like we need to fuck that up anymore?

ardecila Mar 2, 2007 1:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roseville (Post 2659537)
I can't figure out where the dotted-line tracks are from your map. When you say Mayfair and Cragin, do you mean the Mayfair and Cragin Metra stops? If so, I can't find any track passage which connects them.

Mayfair and Cragin are the names of rail crossings. Nearly every rail crossing in Chicago has a name. Sometimes they are named after neighborhoods, other times they have random names. Metra named these two stations after the major crossings they were near. The dots on the map refer to the crossings, not the stations.

The railroad map I based that diagram off of was made in 1915. It's almost completely accurate for today's rail network, except it shows some lines that have been abandoned. I removed those lines in Photoshop to update the map.

Quote:

If I'm looking at a map, are these the tracks which run West of Kolmar Ave. between Montrose and Irving, crossing the Metra tracks South of Irving and continuing along Kenton Ave. to Fullerton?
Yes.

Attrill Mar 2, 2007 6:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 2658237)
One point about the Crosstown - from about Kinzie up to Montrose (Mayfair Junction) the Crosstown has an unused rail right-of-way. The Belt Ry. does not own this (Union Pacific does). However, Belt Ry. tracks do run parallel to the abandoned tracks for some portion.

This segment goes through Old Irving, Portage Park, etc. The space concerns in these neighborhoods will be resolved if the Crosstown can completely replace this rail line.

The dotted line represents this abandoned track.
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/4...wnnorthmh4.jpg

That section is a wider ROW than most of the Belt ROW through the northside, but I don't think it does anything to resolve space concerns. The northern terminus will need to incorporate the merge with the Kennedy (and possibly the Edens as well), and if you look at the space taken up by any merge of expressways in the city that space is a speck compared to what will be needed (and don't forget that the plan also needs tollbooths). A massive area will need to be razed to accomodate the merge and tollbooths. I would suspect that it would even extend to south of this additional ROW.

Attrill Mar 2, 2007 6:07 AM

Kruesi will not be fired until Daley has negotiated a good price for his head with the state. The firing of Kruesi is probably the best bargaining chip Daley has in getting more state money for the CTA, I hope he uses it wisely.

roseville Mar 2, 2007 7:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 2660425)

The railroad map I based that diagram off of was made in 1915.

Have you been to this part of town lately? It's changed a tad since 1915. Hell, it’s changed more-than-a-tad since 1995.

Using a map from almost a century ago as a basis for an arguement, for some reason, reminds me of when the US military accidentally bombed the Chinese embassy in Belgrade… because they were using outdated maps. God knows that situation turned out well.

This is going to be a fight. Can't say that we'll win -- but expect a full-throttle war. We will not go gentle into that good night.

orulz Mar 2, 2007 6:32 PM

The point that the original poster of that map is making is this:

There are two railroad companies that have rights-of-way in the "crosstown corridor."

The Belt Railway owns tracks that extend from Midway (Marquette actually) to Grand. This is a heavily used railway, and is a very important regional transportation asset.

Union Pacific (former Chicago & Northwestern) owns track from Lake all the way to the Kennedy (Mayfair).These tracks are very lightly used (if at all). Google Maps shows us that the corridor is continuous, but the tracks are disconnected where there used to be an at-grade crossing across Metra's Milwaukee District West line. This crossing is marked as "Cragin" on the map. North of the Kennedy, it seems that Union Pacific's right-of-way curves northwest and heads to Evanston, but I don't know what's become of this stretch of the corridor, or if it's even being considered for the Crosstown line.

The two companies (UP and Belt) have corridors that are parallel and adjacent between Lake and Grand. Since Union Pacific doesn't seem to be using theirs very much, they might be convinced to sell it for a reasonable cost.

North of Lake, by using the U-P corridor, and leaving the Belt Ry. alone, Chicago could do the transitway with no further property acquisition. The truckway, who knows.

South of Lake, the options would be:
1. Negotiate to buy the corridor from Belt Ry. (Extremely expensive)
2. Pry the corridor from Belt Ry's hands through eminent domain (Not likely, and also extremely expensive)
3. Come to an agreement to Share the corridor with Belt Ry. The freight rails and a transit line might fit together with a reasonable amount of acquisition. This has been done in many places across the country. Throw in a truck freeway, and it gets uglier.
4. Use a different right-of-way.

ardecila Mar 2, 2007 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roseville (Post 2661027)
Have you been to this part of town lately? It's changed a tad since 1915. Hell, it’s changed more-than-a-tad since 1995.

Yes.... except that this map only shows railroads, and all of those railroads are STILL THERE, 92 years later.

As for the merge with the Kennedy/Edens - remember that this highway will not require very much in the way of merge ramps, since it will be one way each direction. Also, since it's a crosstown route, it probably won't have any ramps going to the Kennedy back towards downtown.

honte Mar 3, 2007 3:41 AM

You know, the thought of mile after mile of backed-up semis up in the sky is not appealing whatsoever. The one lane each direction thing seems to be asking for trouble.

Altauria Mar 3, 2007 4:50 AM

Sounds like current I-55.


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