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-   -   CHICAGO: Transit Developments (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101657)

Taft Jul 28, 2006 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VivaLFuego
like 4 stations have these signs, though many (all of the orange, green, pink line) have announcements for when a train is 1 minute away.

This is an interesting issue, because everyone says they want it, but studies have shown only a very minor impact on overall customer satisfaction and almost zero impact on ridership, so its not currently a priority investment for CTA.

I can buy that the average customer probably wouldn't benefit much from this. But there are areas where it would be REALY helpful for riders. For instance, brown/purple line riders heading north from the loop from stations without the ability to go from one side of the platform to the other. Not knowing which train is coming next is really a pain.

It probably wouldn't increase ridership, but it might just increase customer satisfaction, which, in the long term, could net more riders.

Taft

Wright Concept Jul 28, 2006 10:16 PM

The next train monitors usually works with rail corridors with multiple lines sharing the tracks so that folks won't get on the wrong train. Like that would work for the Loop or the shared track stretches of the Orange-Green south of the loop to Roosevelt or Brown/Purple between Belmont and Merch Mart. But come to think of it that already exists at some of those linking stations

oshkeoto Jul 29, 2006 2:38 AM

"Some here have said that the no frills, utilitarian CTA L car is perfect for Chicago. I disagree completly. I'm not saying that we should have gotten some crazy bubbly shaped thing more suited for Thailand or anything, just some INNOVATION and CREATIVITY, or just a little bit of aesthetic consideration. Let's face it, it would not have taken much to snazzy up this design."

Innovation or snazz rumbling along on rusting, 110-year-old utilitarian elevated tracks would look ridiculous.

I would be for some sort of colors, though.

whyhuhwhy Jul 29, 2006 4:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oshkeoto
Innovation or snazz rumbling along on rusting, 110-year-old utilitarian elevated tracks would look ridiculous.

LOL, that's totally true. Never thought about it like that. I can't imagine how ridiculous an innovative train might look creeking along at 30 mph.

VivaLFuego Jul 29, 2006 5:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oshkeoto
"Some here have said that the no frills, utilitarian CTA L car is perfect for Chicago. I disagree completly. I'm not saying that we should have gotten some crazy bubbly shaped thing more suited for Thailand or anything, just some INNOVATION and CREATIVITY, or just a little bit of aesthetic consideration. Let's face it, it would not have taken much to snazzy up this design."

Innovation or snazz rumbling along on rusting, 110-year-old utilitarian elevated tracks would look ridiculous.

I would be for some sort of colors, though.

Something worth noting is that a big part of the desire for the ribbed stainless steel of the 2200s, 3200s, and the new cars is that they are much less prone to graffiti

Steely Dan Jul 29, 2006 5:08 PM

^ and it's not just that they're less prone to graffiti, but graffiti is also approximately 1 billion times easier to remove from a stainless steel surface than from a painted surface. the stainless steel isn't there just for looks (although it does look extremely hot), it's also there because it's one of the most durable and anti-graffiti products known to man. stainless steel is one of the world's wonder products. if i was master of the universe, i would replace all of the matter in the cosmos with stainless steel.............. it would be a pretty kick-ass universe.

oshkeoto Jul 29, 2006 5:16 PM

I think I would only be for a newfangled design if it was just completely bizarre--like, if every car had an animal theme, so you'd get a train with elephant ears and a trunk, or a turtle shell, or something like that. We wouldn't have to replace all of our goold old cars, but I wouldn't mind hearing a ruckus and looking up and seeing a (stainless steel) elephant trunk.

All those other "forward-looking" designs in other cities just end up looking silly.

VivaLFuego Jul 29, 2006 6:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oshkeoto
I think I would only be for a newfangled design if it was just completely bizarre--like, if every car had an animal theme, so you'd get a train with elephant ears and a trunk, or a turtle shell, or something like that. We wouldn't have to replace all of our goold old cars, but I wouldn't mind hearing a ruckus and looking up and seeing a (stainless steel) elephant trunk.

All those other "forward-looking" designs in other cities just end up looking silly.

Right....ribbed stainless steel = functional, timeless elegance.

For the interior, the rendering does seem to show that a little fake wood paneling survived up by the operator's booth.....argh!

Busy Bee Jul 29, 2006 7:07 PM

http://www.berliner-verkehr.de/ubbilder/utw1001_4.jpg

http://www.berliner-verkehr.de/ubbilder/utw1001_1.jpg

http://www.berliner-verkehr.de/ubbilder/utw1003.jpg

http://www.berliner-verkehr.de/ubbilder/skizze_hk.jpg

http://funini.com/train/sweden/imgs/c20.jpg

http://www.galen-frysinger.ws/sweden/elderhostel20.jpg

Yeah you're right, forward looking design is weird. We don't need any of that silly cutting edge stuff.http://images.skyscraperpage.com/ima...ilies/koko.gif

Even if the outside didn't change, I can't think of a reason on earth that the interiors were not updated(besides the seating config.)

New York sure has made strides though:

http://tr.eltiempo.com/blogs/imagene...ycsubway80.jpg

http://mishappa.image.pbase.com/u47/...47552.IRT3.jpg

MTA contacted a NY based industrial design firm named Antenna Design to do work for the exteriors/interiors of the R142/143 cars. The cars are still stainless but look great because the designers added flourishes that look like someone cared. The interiors are black, white, silver and a lavinder/perriwinkle color. Leaps better than what it looks like the CTA is going to get.

Busy Bee Jul 29, 2006 7:27 PM

Here is another NY in case the other doesn't load:

http://www.subwaywebnews.com/Photo%2...20Interior.jpg

oshkeoto Jul 29, 2006 10:12 PM

"Yeah you're right, forward looking design is weird. We don't need any of that silly cutting edge stuff."

I don't think any of those cars are impressive. They look like brightly colored, flimsier versions of what we have.

The new NYC cars look sterile.

Busy Bee Jul 30, 2006 2:39 AM

I kind of like the idea of a sterile interior. I'd rather look at pure white walls, a speckled black floor and silver than grungy yellow/tan that looks like an old computer monitor. It's kind of like comparing a PC to a Mac in terms of aesthetics. Where as a PC has a long history of being a dud in the design department, the design of the Apple computer and brand is one of its' strongest selling points.

Steely Dan Jul 30, 2006 4:13 PM

busy bee, you're not going to win me over by posting pics of those garish european trains. those ridiculous things look like they belong at disneyland. what we're getting in chicago is a thousand times better and more appropriate for a real city.

stainless steel forever!

Busy Bee Jul 30, 2006 5:55 PM

GRRRR! Can't win em all I guess.

brian_b Jul 30, 2006 9:14 PM

Who cares what they look like, they just need quieter cars. And automatic air fresheners under each seat.

spyguy Jul 30, 2006 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oshkeoto
Innovation or snazz rumbling along on rusting, 110-year-old utilitarian elevated tracks would look ridiculous.

I thought Chicago was a city of contrasts? I guess not...

What is kind of funny is how we don't lament the loss of countless historic buildings each year and institutions like Field's, but we are ready to defend the look of cars.

Which is sad. Modernizing the cars and stations would greatly enhance the CTA's image and provide new amenities, which in turn will drive ridership growth.

As we see with everything else, you either get with the times or become obsolete. I guess in 2040 we'll see if visitors and businesses enjoy our system which many already laugh at in 2006.

Busy Bee Jul 31, 2006 12:57 AM

Ditto. Thank you spyguy.

Busy Bee Jul 31, 2006 1:00 AM

I guess the root problem of all of this is not enough funding to make it a world class system. When the stations look as despicable as ours, I guess for many its hard to imagine its important to have rolling stock that is reflective of the times.

VivaLFuego Jul 31, 2006 2:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busy Bee
I guess the root problem of all of this is not enough funding to make it a world class system. When the stations look as despicable as ours, I guess for many its hard to imagine its important to have rolling stock that is reflective of the times.

Not enough funding, and I think the operations could be made much more efficient, though that would be very politically unpopular (it would involve cutting the plethora of service that CTA provides that no one rides, lke 30+ bus routes and reducing frequency of off-peak services). If operations recovered more at the farebox, then more public money could to capital improvements like station renovations. (of course, at 53% recovery ratio, we're still better than many major systems, Boston is 35%).

Another thing worth mentioning is that most of the system actually is in decent shape: The Orange Line, Green Line, Pink Line are all excellent. The south end of the red line and the brown line will soon be excellent. parts of the blue line are in decent shape. It just so happens that the most heavily used portions, i.e. the north branch of the red line and the downtown subways, are in the worst shape.

Busy Bee Jul 31, 2006 3:36 AM

Quote:

Another thing worth mentioning is that most of the system actually is in decent shape: The Orange Line, Green Line, Pink Line are all excellent. The south end of the red line and the brown line will soon be excellent. parts of the blue line are in decent shape. It just so happens that the most heavily used portions, i.e. the north branch of the red line and the downtown subways, are in the worst shape.
That is a good point. I guess I was thinking more about the North Side Main, Brown(will soon be better), and the Loop because they get so much exposure and heavy ridership.


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