SkyscraperPage Forum

SkyscraperPage Forum (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/index.php)
-   Transportation (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=25)
-   -   CHICAGO: Transit Developments (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101657)

jjk1103 Jul 21, 2006 3:14 PM

........in reading the story in the Trib about the cost overruns on the Brown rehab........it looks like Krusei is in real trouble.

spyguy Jul 28, 2006 2:49 PM

Bombardier Finalizes Order Valued at $577 Million US for Rapid Transit Cars in Chicago
July 28, 2006

Bombardier Transportation announced today that it has finalized a major order for rapid transit cars from the Chicago Transit Authority (CTA), a contract valued at $577 million US (457 million euros). On May 10, the CTA Board had selected Bombardier as preferred bidder. The contract is for a base order of 206 rapid transit vehicles and CTA also exercised a first option for 200 additional vehicles for a total of 406 cars. The total number of cars involved could increase to 706 should CTA exercise all available options.

The new rapid transit cars will be the first in the CTA fleet to utilize alternating current (AC) propulsion, a technology that permits dynamic braking regeneration, lower energy and maintenance costs, and improved reliability. Bombardier was the first rail car builder to supply AC propulsion technology to transit authorities in the United States and Canada. The new fleet of cars also will be equipped with a special leveling system to ensure that access to the car floor is level with the station platform during boarding.

The contract calls for delivery of ten prototype cars 30 months after Notice to Proceed is given by the CTA. The prototypes will undergo nine months of revenue service testing before delivery of production series cars begins.

The CTA operates the second largest public transportation system in the United States, covering the city of Chicago and 40 surrounding suburbs. CTA trains provide about 500,000 customer trips each day via seven routes, 222 miles of track and 144 stations.

In North America, Bombardier Transportation is the leader in commuter rail, intercity, subway cars, automated rapid transit and automated guideway transit systems. It also maintains two of the largest multi-level commuter rail car fleets in Canada and the United States.

Bombardier Transportation has its global headquarters in Berlin, Germany and operations in over 60 countries. It has an installed base of approximately 97,000 cars and locomotives, primarily in Europe, the world's largest rail market. The company offers the broadest product portfolio and is recognized as the leader in the global rail sector.
-----------------------------------
Click for bigger images

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/6...sdd1fz1.th.jpg

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/3...ireslt5.th.jpg

Busy Bee Jul 28, 2006 4:33 PM

I'm sorry, but between this and the new Metra Electric MU's, which are essentially just like a stainless Metra pull coach with a pantograph on top, I am really getting irritated with transport design in Chicago. It seems the rest of the world(including 2nd world) have rail fleet's that are appealing, forward looking, stylish design. This new L car is IDENTICAL to the 3200 on the outside, a design drafted by some engineer nearly 15 years ago! Some here have said that the no frills, utilitarian CTA L car is perfect for Chicago. I disagree completly. I'm not saying that we should have gotten some crazy bubbly shaped thing more suited for Thailand or anything, just some INNOVATION and CREATIVITY, or just a little bit of aesthetic consideration. Let's face it, it would not have taken much to snazzy up this design. Slight modifications to the cab front could have resulted in something more reflective of the year 2008! Would you have a problem buying and enjoying a brand new automobile(if you drive) that was styled like a 1991 Olsmobile Cutless Siera whatever? These new railcars will be 18 years old when they are delivered new, and assuming they last at least 30 years, we will be seeing a 1990 design in the year 2040, wow! Imagine how this industrial design we'll look then. How would you feel about the CTA if they were still running the 6000's in the year 2006?

This may seem like an overreaction to many, but I don;t see it like that. I am probably as equally interested in industrial design as I am architecture and urbanism. I know that at one time the likes of Raymond Loewy and Henry Dreyfuss reshaped the way American rail trasnportation looked, and America was known worldwide for having the most fantastic trains. We have gone from a legacy of cutting edge industrial design with beautiful color spectrums to outsourcing the doggiest rapid transit car on the globe(maybe behind Toronto) to one its' finest cities.

I just think it's extremely unfortunate that the Chicago area's legacy of stylish beautiful transport has dimensioned so greatly. No more orange, brown, cream or green of the IC(hell soon no more orange on the Metra Highliners either, replaced with Metra's blah blue); No more green and yellow of the CNW, more silver streak; Very little emphasis of South Shore orange and marroon(we've probably all seen pics of orange South Shore MU's down by Central Station with the skyline in the back, alot more interesting than more corrugated stainless); No more green and red of the North Shore Electroliner; No more Rock Island red, black and silver; No more green, cream and orange of early CTA, hell no more mint green either; remember when the buses were that green, lime and white scheme, I liked that... it sure would be in style now, but what do we have?... this lame go USA paint scheme of red white and blue, UGGH! Look around the world, fantastic paint jobs in Europe of transit vehicles, we're lucky if we have a strip of color on white buses or LRV's in many US cities, look at New York, LA, the list goes on) And these examples were only of commuter services, think of the landscape we've lost since the collapse of passenger rail in this country. B&O, NYC, GM&O, PRR, IC, Milwaukee Road, it gets depressing.

This is a long spout, but what I'm getting at is that we are getting the short end of the stick in terms of transport aesthetics. Our long history of innovative style has been replaced with design being an afterthought, and that is BAD for image. More worrisome is that so many don't even seem to notice, or defend the local agencies for having cars that "fit" Chicago. Please! If anything, they make the transport in the area look underfunded(which it is), unimpressive(Metra in particular), dowdy, DRAB and stuck in the past. It just seems that NO ONE is asking, "does this look cool"?... because they should. I fear that many aspects of overlooked American design is suffering because no one is asking this question. Walk around and notice how many things, not just architecture, looks like it was designed with no regard for style. Now go to Holland or Denmark and see the difference in a society where very little design is overlooked.

Let's just hope the NY style seating is an improvement and that the fake wood paneling doesn't skip the 3200 and reappear again.

VivaLFuego Jul 28, 2006 4:40 PM

^ good riddance to fake wood panelling!

VivaLFuego Jul 28, 2006 4:46 PM

^ You can thank former CTA President Paaswell for killing our unique Mercury Green, Croyden Cream, and Swamp Holley Orange color scheme, favoring the blah red, white, and blue of every other transit agency. How awesome was all the old CTA signage, in Futura fonts with the green and cream color schemes?

I think the lack of creative industrial design is indicative of a wider societal problem, a loss of the confidence and pride that we had back in the "good old days". Hence we wind up with the insultingly wretched olde tyme infill all over the city's northside rather than trying anything forward-looking. It's just not transport, such ways of thinking are all over the place, and of course the current climate against funding government means transit agencies do need to be budget conscious, so flashy design is one of the first things thrown out to save costs. The only way they're getting away with the Calatrava train station in NY is because the federal taxpayers are paying for it as part of the rubber stamp "reconstruction" efforts we like to do after major disasters (Katrina, etc.)

Personally, I like the exterior aesthetic of the 3200s, and think the ribbed stainless steel has an almost timeless elegance to it (witness the 2200s on the blue/pink lines, now 35 years old), so I don't mind if these look pretty similar.

ChicagoBruce Jul 28, 2006 4:55 PM

I disagree completely. I love the look of the CTA cars and hope they never change, unless they maybe revert to even older looks. I want no part of the some modern and futuristic design, I think that would look dumb.

They really need the poles throughout the car, so the people standing don’t have to be surrounding the door areas, but I also dislike the new seating arrangement. Since the vast majority of the system is above ground, it’s nice to be able to look the window easier.

Steely Dan Jul 28, 2006 4:58 PM

i for one LOVE the aesthetic of chicago's L cars and i am overjoyed by the fact that we will still be seeing this classic look in 2040! hopefully it will last forever. i'm still not sold on the side aisle seating, but it will be what it'll be. one of the things i like about the current L car seating configuration is the fact that we don't face each other across an aisle, it's easier to look out the window as you ride.

Skurry Jul 28, 2006 5:08 PM

The new layout is fine with me, the more seats the better. Rush hour is too crowded! I know they are expanding some of the brown/red line stops to accomidate trains with more cars, they need to do that with all stops. I can not tell you how many times I have had to "wait for the next train" because no more can fit in. Even when it's not packed you can't get a seat, after working all day long I really don't want to stand on a moving train. After all the construction is done in the loop there is going to be much more rider traffic. CTA needs to be prepared.

As far as an update in design, I couldn't agree more with the fact that our pub-trans seems outdated. Sometimes I feel like I'm stepping into a portal to the 70s. Both Metra and CTA need to change their whole look. We are entering into a new age, let's look like it.

Busy Bee Jul 28, 2006 5:11 PM

^Thank You.

whyhuhwhy Jul 28, 2006 5:22 PM

I agree, but it seems there is nothing we can do about it.

Busy Bee Jul 28, 2006 5:23 PM

Think of it this way:

Like Sears, a business that neglects or questions the importance of style, whether true or not, is often regarded as second rate.

whyhuhwhy Jul 28, 2006 5:24 PM

At least we know these designs age well though. I think the design of the station is more important than the train when all is said and done. There needs to be more signs like in London that tell you when the next train is coming. How many stations in Chicago have that?

whyhuhwhy Jul 28, 2006 5:27 PM

I think more than anything a new design would spur ridership interest just because it could be used as a marketing tacting. "The New CTA" if you will.

Unfortunately no sense in talking about it. What's done is done. That is what the el's going to look like until we die probably.

the urban politician Jul 28, 2006 6:08 PM

^ I agree that newer, more modern looking trains would be the way to go. The current cars look so damn utilitarian. Some colors would be nice.

I love how they painted some cars pink for the Pink Line. Something along those lines would really add to the cityscape. Perhaps a neon green "glow in the dark train" would be in order

As long as they never get rid of that totally cool "ding dong" bell sound just before the doors open and close, I'll be happy.

nomarandlee Jul 28, 2006 6:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whyhuhwhy
At least we know these designs age well though. I think the design of the station is more important than the train when all is said and done. There needs to be more signs like in London that tell you when the next train is coming. How many stations in Chicago have that?


I agree. I go back and forth on if I prefer the stainless steal look or if I would like the CTA to go down the route of a Madrid or even a D.C. look. Both have their aethestic pros and cons. The one major con I have against the current look is that it reminds me too much of NYC. It seems to say if it is good enough for NYC then its good enough for us. But it does age well, doesn't get especially dirty, and can look sleak at times. Also I think the inside of the new cars are more important. Look insde Londons lines (only seen in photos) and they look very nice and sophisticated.

But as said before I think the stations are most important. And I hate to say it but many if not most of Chi's stations are just in abysmal shape. If you want to change perceptions that rapid tranist is not just for the poor then you need to change the atmosphere and conditions that it looks like it does.

alex1 Jul 28, 2006 6:52 PM

nothing special about the current cars. the flat fronts serve no purpose other then to cause drag and require more power to operate.

Personally, my favorite trains are the London Underground fleet. However, something like that is only viable if there's a train every 23 seconds. That's not gonna happen in chicago anytime in the next 20 years.

spyguy Jul 28, 2006 7:43 PM

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...ssouthwest-hed

South suburbs see promise, peril in Metra line proposal

By Carmen Greco Jr

Special to the Tribune
Published July 28, 2006

A new Metra commuter line that would give thousands of south suburban residents greater access to downtown Chicago could be a blessing and a curse, residents said during a planning meeting in Glenwood.

While the proposed Southeast Service Line could spur transit-oriented development and increase employment opportunities, residents said Wednesday night they worry about added traffic congestion and air and noise pollution.

"We have a small town, and the congestion is already terrible," said Mark Nordin of Thornton. "You add more Metra trains every 20 minutes, and people aren't even going to be able to get to work."

But Metra officials and south suburban leaders say the line could help municipalities revitalize their downtowns and take cars off local roads and expressways.

The line, which would cost about $500 million in its most expensive form, would begin south of Crete near Balmoral Park and make stops in Crete, Steger, South Chicago Heights, Chicago Heights, Glenwood, Thornton, South Holland and Dolton.

The line would run on existing Union Pacific/CSX freight tracks before switching to tracks on Metra's Rock Island line near Blue Island.

Metra is marshaling the local support needed to persuade the federal government to fund the project. After an initial planning phase, officials said, they would schedule meetings in October for public comment. If approved, the project would take 8 to 10 years to complete.

"There's a lot more growth expected in this area, and the transportation system is already stressed," said Mike Lambert, a consultant hired by Metra.

Metra also will study alternatives to rail transportation for the region, including express buses that would follow a corridor along Interstate Highways 394 and 94.

Glenwood Mayor Jeanne Maggio, like other local leaders, is pushing for a rail line. A stop in Glenwood, she said, would mean a new train station that could spur downtown redevelopment. A new condominium and retail development is already taking off, she said.

"If the train were here today, it would already be filled up," Maggio said of the space.

She and other local leaders say they fear unwanted side-effects, such as increased traffic congestion, but believe careful planning could address those concerns. Leaders and residents from the communities slated for stops, for instance, could opt out of building train stations if they believe they would not benefit their towns.

South Holland Mayor Don DeGraff said the prospect of rail service already is sparking developers' interest in his town.

"We've used this as a catalyst to help jumpstart our downtown area," he said.

-----
http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/232/sesmapck9.jpg

VivaLFuego Jul 28, 2006 8:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whyhuhwhy
At least we know these designs age well though. I think the design of the station is more important than the train when all is said and done. There needs to be more signs like in London that tell you when the next train is coming. How many stations in Chicago have that?

like 4 stations have these signs, though many (all of the orange, green, pink line) have announcements for when a train is 1 minute away.

This is an interesting issue, because everyone says they want it, but studies have shown only a very minor impact on overall customer satisfaction and almost zero impact on ridership, so its not currently a priority investment for CTA.

VivaLFuego Jul 28, 2006 9:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spyguy
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...ssouthwest-hed

South suburbs see promise, peril in Metra line proposal

By Carmen Greco Jr

Special to the Tribune
Published July 28, 2006

A new Metra commuter line that would give thousands of south suburban residents greater access to downtown Chicago could be a blessing and a curse, residents said during a planning meeting in Glenwood.

While the proposed Southeast Service Line could spur transit-oriented development and increase employment opportunities, residents said Wednesday night they worry about added traffic congestion and air and noise pollution.

"We have a small town, and the congestion is already terrible," said Mark Nordin of Thornton. "You add more Metra trains every 20 minutes, and people aren't even going to be able to get to work."

But Metra officials and south suburban leaders say the line could help municipalities revitalize their downtowns and take cars off local roads and expressways.

The line, which would cost about $500 million in its most expensive form, would begin south of Crete near Balmoral Park and make stops in Crete, Steger, South Chicago Heights, Chicago Heights, Glenwood, Thornton, South Holland and Dolton.

The line would run on existing Union Pacific/CSX freight tracks before switching to tracks on Metra's Rock Island line near Blue Island.

Metra is marshaling the local support needed to persuade the federal government to fund the project. After an initial planning phase, officials said, they would schedule meetings in October for public comment. If approved, the project would take 8 to 10 years to complete.

"There's a lot more growth expected in this area, and the transportation system is already stressed," said Mike Lambert, a consultant hired by Metra.

Metra also will study alternatives to rail transportation for the region, including express buses that would follow a corridor along Interstate Highways 394 and 94.

Glenwood Mayor Jeanne Maggio, like other local leaders, is pushing for a rail line. A stop in Glenwood, she said, would mean a new train station that could spur downtown redevelopment. A new condominium and retail development is already taking off, she said.

"If the train were here today, it would already be filled up," Maggio said of the space.

She and other local leaders say they fear unwanted side-effects, such as increased traffic congestion, but believe careful planning could address those concerns. Leaders and residents from the communities slated for stops, for instance, could opt out of building train stations if they believe they would not benefit their towns.

South Holland Mayor Don DeGraff said the prospect of rail service already is sparking developers' interest in his town.

"We've used this as a catalyst to help jumpstart our downtown area," he said.

-----
http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/232/sesmapck9.jpg

Given that suburbs are a fact of life, commuter rail will certainly help strengthen corridors and fill in the space along the corridors and in the suburban downtowns, while of course adding to the transportation capacity headed to chicago's main employment center. all this means it allows chicagoland to keep adding residents without claiming more farmland (though it inevitably will). Good luck to Metra on making it happen (though I wish Metra would also consider some actual cooperation with CTA on fare integration and better rapid transit connections to the downtown commuter terminals.

the urban politician Jul 28, 2006 9:30 PM

^ This is a great idea and I'm always in favor of more commuter rail access to downtown Chicago.

The south suburbs need the same access to downtown as the people in the north burbs, and it's better than having more cars on the expressways.


All times are GMT. The time now is 7:05 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.