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-   -   CHICAGO: Transit Developments (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101657)

Busy Bee May 10, 2016 12:25 AM

^Thought the same. The Detroit people mover as something to emulate? Geeeezus

Mr Downtown May 10, 2016 2:29 PM

^To be fair, the AGT used in Detroit is a very promising technology in my opinion. It's exactly the same as used for Vancouver's lines, and almost the same as Toronto's Scarborough Line. Detroit's suffers a bit from being a one-way loop, and even more from the nonexistent cityscape around several stations.

Over the last year, I've gone to look at a lot of similar AGTs (now marketed as Bombardier Innovia Metro) in East and Southeast Asia. Many of them, like Taipei's Line 1 or the Kelana Jaya Line in Kuala Lumpur, are impressive operations, carrying very large passenger loads on very short headways. I've also looked at many Asian installations of the rubber-tired variant, now Innovia APM. Operations seem very similar to me, but I can't help but think the steel-rail version will prove more robust for winter cities like Chicago.

Busy Bee May 10, 2016 4:03 PM

^Yeah my critique was of the horrible DPM itself, not really the specific tech.

mousquet May 10, 2016 8:32 PM

Was speaking for la Défense anyway, that's quite an odd district like none other, nothing much to do with a large traditional US downtown, except for the fact that highrises rule the district. The pedestrian deck may be the largest anywhere, and I truly think a people mover would work in this very particular context. Again, much more efficiently than this thing suggested above to let tourists enjoy the canyons of downtown Chicago. That kind of gadget is usually called "eggs" (Fr: des œufs) over here in the colloquial language related to ski resorts. And there are often long lines to get in those so called eggs...

emathias May 11, 2016 2:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UPChicago (Post 7406938)
That's certainly not Wilson, but other than that looks good! I wish they would give up the fabric though, I hate feeling afraid anytime I smell piss and my seat is abnormally cold.

It would be interesting to have 'L' service where pictured, though. Maybe not exactly how pictured, but along the main branch anyway.

----

I think that if the aerial trams were implemented well, they would not only be an interesting tourism feature but could actually become a useful part of transportation in Chicago, sort of like how Portland has their MAX lightrail system and their streetcar system, except not stuck in traffic like Portland's streetcars.

I agree that they do risk creating negative visual clutter, but I think it's worth exploring options for implementing a system like that. I think my biggest concern would be the impact of snow and ice on such a system - I mean, obviously things like that exist in very snowy areas like ski resorts, but they generally don't run over crowded, pedestrian- and infrastructure-rich areas. But, in theory, it could be an interesting way to solve the West Loop to Streeterville transportation conundrum for far less money than my preferred West Loop to Streeterville subway (a la 1968's transportation proposals). And while not part of this proposal, it might even be an interesting option to run a "line" from the base of Navy Pier or somewhere near the river and the Lake to near the Shedd. That would probably generate even more objections, though.

CTA Gray Line May 12, 2016 10:40 AM

Emanuel names Zopp deputy mayor, announces CTA South Side service expansion
 
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...511-story.html

Emanuel names Zopp deputy mayor, announces CTA South Side service expansion

Bill Ruthhart May 11, 2016 11:00pm

Mayor Rahm Emanuel will name former Democratic U.S. Senate candidate Andrea Zopp to a new City Hall position as a deputy mayor on Thursday, placing the businesswoman and former head of the Chicago Urban League in charge of neighborhood economic development....

the urban politician May 12, 2016 12:28 PM

^ Ahhh, ever the panderer.

Whatever, keep extending transit service to a bunch of weedy lots. Great idea!

CTA Gray Line May 12, 2016 2:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 7439061)
^ Ahhh, ever the panderer.

Whatever, keep extending transit service to a bunch of weedy lots. Great idea!

He's tossing the Black Community a couple of crumbs -- and all those other so-called "Black Officials" and "Leaders" are just as perfectly willing to throw the Black Community under the bus to maintain their positions; like all those Brazilian spiders in their giant communal web (ugggggh), every spider has it's place: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-9KPe3nwaQ

CTA Gray Line May 18, 2016 7:18 PM

Coalition for a Modern Metra Electric
 
http://www.modernmetraelectric.org/

Spring 2016 More Frequent MED Service would give Southland a Boost Active Transportation Alliance newsletter
3/16/16 What's the best way to provide "Great Airport Transit" to O'Hare? Streetsblog Chicago
2/29/16: Critics say the O'Hare Express train plan [leaves something to be desired]. CrossRail Chicago could improve it. Chicago Reader.....

jpIllInoIs May 19, 2016 1:57 PM

OHare express
 
Im concerned that the Ohare Express is going to come down to a turf war betwix Metra and CTA.

Modern Metra coalition is basically taking the MWHSR position on CrossRail added a heaping spoon of Grayline proposal and has cultivated some local econ dev groups. All good stuff. In fact Modern Metra adopting grayline is a huge step in itself.

While CrossRail does has some important backers including Cook County board..I dont see the seal of approval from CMAP. And dont ever expect to see the CTA back CrossRail over their own version (still waiting) of Ohare Express.

IMO OHare Express should proceed under Metra with Crossrail and Grayline plans and CTA should join in the big dig on Clinton St for a new subway. Everyone on the same page for the WLTC.

ardecila May 19, 2016 4:32 PM

^^^ I don't doubt there could be a turf war... pretty much par for the course in America and Chicago specifically.

A few things make me optimistic though:

a) Metra's chairman is Marty Oberman, a city guy through and through and a Rahm appointee. Not a suburban guy. He faces an uphill battle to change Metra's railroad culture but I believe he is starting from a good place and (should) have some loyalty to Rahm.

b) Aviation is leading the charge for the OHare Express, not CTA. That means the city isn't default starting from the position that CTA has to provide the service. Ginger Evans specifically has not made any statements that CTA will be providing the service, and articles about the ORD Express have implied (not sure whether this is sourced) that a mainline rail solution is being considered.

c) If the city turns to a PPP for ORD Express, that PPP will undoubtedly reach the conclusion that mainline rail is far cheaper assuming Metra's coordination on scheduling. One flyover at A-2 and some signals are cheaper than miles of viaduct or passing tracks on the Blue Line. Plus mainline rail carries a far lower risk of service disruption, which in the world of PPPs means a more stable revenue stream.

Mr Downtown May 19, 2016 6:10 PM

I'm hearing that Union Station Transit Center won't be ready until August. Not sure when CTA will actually move routes into it, because Adams Street bridge will still be out of service.

CTA Gray Line May 19, 2016 7:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown (Post 7447291)
I'm hearing that Union Station Transit Center won't be ready until August. Not sure when CTA will actually move routes into it, because Adams Street bridge will still be out of service.

When will the bridge be completed?

Mr Downtown May 19, 2016 9:29 PM

CDOT originally thought that Adams would reopen Feb 2017. Not sure if they're on schedule.

SolarWind May 23, 2016 3:53 AM

Washington/Wabash Elevated Station
 
May 16, 2016




chicagopcclcar1 May 23, 2016 9:51 PM

After Demolishing 63rd "L" The Salvaged Steel Lives
 
An agreement in 1997, between the CTA and the Feds, the salvaged steel from the 1000 ft of brand new construction was to be used by future projects....after 19 years, most of the steel is still unused, stacked on the ground next to the CTA 61st St. upper yard. My photo....msibnsf
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s...f/P1110757.jpg


http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s...f/P1110757.jpg

emathias May 25, 2016 3:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 7447129)
^^^ I don't doubt there could be a turf war... pretty much par for the course in America and Chicago specifically.
...
c) If the city turns to a PPP for ORD Express, that PPP will undoubtedly reach the conclusion that mainline rail is far cheaper assuming Metra's coordination on scheduling. One flyover at A-2 and some signals are cheaper than miles of viaduct or passing tracks on the Blue Line. Plus mainline rail carries a far lower risk of service disruption, which in the world of PPPs means a more stable revenue stream.

I don't doubt that mainline is less expensive, but probably only if it's allowed to also be the absolute worst rider experience on the airport end of things. If the solution is actually implemented in a way that riders might want to use it - as in it's actually accessible from the terminals instead of from the remote parking area like the current Metra station is - then it's going to be pretty damn expensive. I know of exactly zero business travelers who would consider it a smart choice to take the People Mover from the terminals to the end of the line to alight an express train that costs probably $20+ and drops them in the West Loop only, from which they'd likely need a $10 taxi ride. It just wouldn't make any sense at all, so who would be the customers? Suckers who've never been to Chicago and will ride it once until locals mock them for taking an over-priced, inconvenient solution?

I mean, seriously, to even pretend it offers value (high end value is what it would need to offer), it would need these:

1) Must be accessible to most travelers without using other airport transit (i.e. the People Mover can't be a required part of the trip). Maybe we can get away with making Terminal 5 people use the People Mover, but ideally there'd be two stops at O'Hare for any express - Main terminals, and Terminal 5, so that neither needs People Mover connections.
2) Must stop somewhere downtown with easy connections to the CTA (ideally a ticket on the express would also include 2 hours of free CTA use). Union Station simply doesn't have acceptable connections to the CTA rail system.
3) It must be faster than a taxi, including connection times, for anywhere in the greater Loop area. Otherwise, what's the point of calling it an express?

I don't see those three things being achieved cheaply. A good airport express really must have those three items and if it doesn't, I personally don't think it's worth spending a dime on because those transit dollars would add more value and get more use elsewhere. Spending a billion+ dollars on something we call an "express" just for marketing purposes would be so very foolish since a billion dollars spend just on marketing the city would achieve far, far more return than an unused train that continues to require subsidy to operate.

Kngkyle May 25, 2016 3:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emathias (Post 7452736)
I don't doubt that mainline is less expensive, but probably only if it's allowed to also be the absolute worst rider experience on the airport end of things. If the solution is actually implemented in a way that riders might want to use it - as in it's actually accessible from the terminals instead of from the remote parking area like the current Metra station is - then it's going to be pretty damn expensive. I know of exactly zero business travelers who would consider it a smart choice to take the People Mover from the terminals to the end of the line to alight an express train that costs probably $20+ and drops them in the West Loop only, from which they'd likely need a $10 taxi ride. It just wouldn't make any sense at all, so who would be the customers? Suckers who've never been to Chicago and will ride it once until locals mock them for taking an over-priced, inconvenient solution?

I mean, seriously, to even pretend it offers value (high end value is what it would need to offer), it would need these:

1) Must be accessible to most travelers without using other airport transit (i.e. the People Mover can't be a required part of the trip). Maybe we can get away with making Terminal 5 people use the People Mover, but ideally there'd be two stops at O'Hare for any express - Main terminals, and Terminal 5, so that neither needs People Mover connections.
2) Must stop somewhere downtown with easy connections to the CTA (ideally a ticket on the express would also include 2 hours of free CTA use). Union Station simply doesn't have acceptable connections to the CTA rail system.
3) It must be faster than a taxi, including connection times, for anywhere in the greater Loop area. Otherwise, what's the point of calling it an express?

I don't see those three things being achieved cheaply. A good airport express really must have those three items and if it doesn't, I personally don't think it's worth spending a dime on because those transit dollars would add more value and get more use elsewhere. Spending a billion+ dollars on something we call an "express" just for marketing purposes would be so very foolish since a billion dollars spend just on marketing the city would achieve far, far more return than an unused train that continues to require subsidy to operate.

Exactly. Any dollar spent on a new express train would be better spent further improving the existing Blue Line service.

jpIllInoIs May 25, 2016 4:02 PM

NICTD Double Track
 
Wow, this has been on the planning table for a long time. But progress is being made.

Tuesday, May 24, 2016
NICTD gains federal approval to develop double tracking project


The Northern Indiana Commuter Transportation District (NICTD) has received approval from the FTA to enter Project Development for its long anticipated project to double track the South Shore Line from Tennessee Street in Gary, Ind., to Michigan Blvd. in Michigan City, Ind., a distance of approximately 25 miles.

The estimated $210-million project is expected to add 5,000 - 8,000 daily riders to the South Shore Line, increase train frequency by 30 percent and improve on-time performance. In addition, double tracking the South Shore Line will allow the railroad to significantly reduce travel times along the line, especially at station locations farther away from Chicago.
.........
The next step in this process, in addition to completing the preliminary engineering and environmental studies, is locking up the all important local/state share of $105 million to qualify for federal funding.

harryc May 28, 2016 4:02 AM

McCormick place sta.
 






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