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-   -   CHICAGO: Transit Developments (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101657)

Jibba Oct 21, 2014 3:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detroit1995 (Post 6776707)
I mean it is the last remaining house of the original Wabash stations. About a month ago, I went down to photograph the entire stop and while it was in bad shape, I've heard from a few different sources that it's structurally fine. That's the last of it's kind and honestly it has some unique personality.

I get the historical value of it, but architecturally, even fully restored (and I don't know what that photo from chicago-L.org is even based off of), it's still an ersatz Classical house (and a not-so-good one, at that).

BVictor1 Oct 21, 2014 4:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jibba (Post 6776750)
I get the historical value of it, but architecturally, even fully restored (and I don't know what that photo from chicago-L.org is even based off of), it's still an ersatz Classical house (and a not-so-good one, at that).

It's the Quincy/Wells stop on the west side of the loop.

Jibba Oct 21, 2014 5:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BVictor1 (Post 6776843)
It's the Quincy/Wells stop on the west side of the loop.

Crazy, I didn't even recognize that! Love the interior of the Quincy (even if it's a bit kitschy), but the outside is just OK.

Mr Downtown Oct 21, 2014 6:00 PM

To be allowed to modernize the rest of the Loop L, CTA agreed in the 1980s to restore and preserve the Quincy station (it actually turned out to be pretty much a complete reconstruction). The preservation ship has sailed on the other station houses.

Now if I could just get someone interested in preserving the PWA Moderne subway stations before it's too late . . .

nomarandlee Oct 21, 2014 7:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown (Post 6776295)
It is. Cost estimated at $1.8 billion, possible savings of as much as $18 million per year. That's a 100 year payback period, even if you assume the money is free, with no opportunity or borrowing cost.

The time savings? For the longest lines . . . .
"between 5 and 10 minutes per trip."

Maybe there would be less expensive ways to save 3-7% of running time
.

What do you have in mind?

5-10 minutes is significant savings depending on where you start your trip. From any commuting distance it is sizable savings.

wierdaaron Oct 21, 2014 8:56 PM

If anybody goes between Chicago and Detroit as often as I do, this might be interesting:

http://greatlakesrail.org/~grtlakes/...ublic-hearings

Quote:

The Federal Railroad Administration (FRA), in coordination with the Michigan, Indiana and Illinois departments of transportation, has prepared a Tier 1 Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) to evaluate passenger rail improvements for the Chicago-Detroit/Pontiac corridor.
There will be a presentation and public testimony at Union Station's Union Gallery Room (off the great hall) on Wednesday 10/29 at 5:30 (doors open at 4, presentation starts 5:30).

You can review the proposal documentation online now at the above url

untitledreality Oct 22, 2014 2:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown (Post 6776295)
Maybe there would be less expensive ways to save 3-7% of running time.

I see 3-7% time savings per trip, system wide, for decades, as a pretty big deal. For comparison, the $425m Circle Interchange rebuild is projected (by CDOT) to save regional drivers 1.2 seconds per trip. The $1.3b+ Illiana is projected (by MPC) to ease regional congestion by 1%.

To bring METRA into the 21st century we have got to start somewhere. And if other tactics to save running time are discovered, those should be implemented as well.

denizen467 Oct 22, 2014 3:19 AM

^ Those reductions in time come with intrinsically reduced energy consumption, which can be thought of as offsetting costs of the investment. Reductions in railcar running times do not have a corresponding reduced energy consumption.

-------------------------

There is some kind of construction or refurbishment going with the Brown Line viaduct at Division - is this just something minor, or are they possibly enabling a wider Division right of way here? Or maybe a foundation for a future station?

Mr Downtown Oct 22, 2014 3:35 AM

Electrification would be bringing Metra into the 20th century, when it was necessary to eliminate steam locomotives. At this point it would be a very expensive grace note. It's not the first improvement you'd make, it's about the 38th, something you'd do if you had unlimited money or free electric power.

The first thing to speed up Metra would be to halve headways, as GO is doing. That's not huge for everyday commuters who always catch the same run, but for casual users in the region it effective cuts their trip time by half or two-thirds. Shorter signal blocks, cab signals or PTC, third tracks for express trains, high platforms, eliminating grade crossings, higher-speed turnouts, custom gearing ratios, multiple-unit powered cars, step-on crews . . . there's a lot of things any expert would look to do before electrification even came up.

denizen467 Oct 22, 2014 3:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 6774543)
Kind of obscure, but good news from CREATE - the massive 75th Street project just completed all environmental reviews and was approved by the Feds. The project includes demolishing almost 30 homes for a new Metra flyover, so approval is great news. It also includes two additional flyovers, track reconfigurations, signal upgrades, and viaduct replacement.

Even more obscure, and not part of CREATE, but one of the big railroads proposed a while back the doubling in size of a railyard not far from the 75th St corridor - I believe just west of the Dan Ryan and south of Garfield Blvd. This also involved demolition of houses and was less than welcome by the neighborhood. Has this plan moved forward at all?

pilsenarch Oct 22, 2014 1:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown (Post 6776971)
To be allowed to modernize the rest of the Loop L, CTA agreed in the 1980s to restore and preserve the Quincy station (it actually turned out to be pretty much a complete reconstruction). The preservation ship has sailed on the other station houses.

Now if I could just get someone interested in preserving the PWA Moderne subway stations before it's too late . . .

I'm with you on the Moderne stations.... anything to slow the progression of Daniel Coffey's hideous 'skyline' tile...

BVictor1 Oct 22, 2014 3:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by denizen467 (Post 6777850)
Even more obscure, and not part of CREATE, but one of the big railroads proposed a while back the doubling in size of a railyard not far from the 75th St corridor - I believe just west of the Dan Ryan and south of Garfield Blvd. This also involved demolition of houses and was less than welcome by the neighborhood. Has this plan moved forward at all?

That plan has been approved.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/2...l#.VEfIMSi8Y10

oshkeoto Oct 22, 2014 7:47 PM

Mr. D, why is GO electrifying at great expense as part of the headway reduction that you're talking about?

ardecila Oct 23, 2014 1:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by denizen467 (Post 6777850)
Even more obscure, and not part of CREATE, but one of the big railroads proposed a while back the doubling in size of a railyard not far from the 75th St corridor - I believe just west of the Dan Ryan and south of Garfield Blvd. This also involved demolition of houses and was less than welcome by the neighborhood. Has this plan moved forward at all?

Yes, in a limited fashion. It may take a long time for NS to negotiate individually with the many property owners in the area, but they are rebuilding all the viaducts along 51st St and constructing a connection ("Echo") at 58th St between their two lines as a precursor to the eventual yard expansion.

http://www.nscorp.com/content/dam/in...day-slides.pdf (p. 54)

Also worth noting that Norfolk Southern's abandoned line along 58th St will be donated to the city in exchange for some city-owned parcels near 61st and State. Community organizers want to turn this into a trail like the Bloomingdale, although I'm guessing it will be more basic like the Weber Spur on the far North Side.

Mr Downtown Oct 23, 2014 3:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oshkeoto (Post 6778804)
Mr. D, why is GO electrifying at great expense as part of the headway reduction that you're talking about?

All they say in the executive summary is
  • There are important journey time savings that come from electrification. Over the longest trips, journey time savings would be between 5 and 10 minutes per trip. This reduction in journey time will benefit existing riders and attract new ones.
  • There are significant operating savings associated with electrification, up to $18 million per year for the recommended option.
  • Electrification will be a significant step towards achieving the long term goals and objectives of The Big Move for a GO Express Rail service. Express Rail is a vision for even faster and more frequent service, with trains operating in the peak period as frequently as every five minutes.

Besides having their eye on headways that are unimaginable for the Chicago region, I suspect that Toronto has the advantage of hydroelectric resources that make electric power much cheaper than here.

CTA Gray Line Oct 23, 2014 4:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown (Post 6779504)
All they say in the executive summary is
  • There are important journey time savings that come from electrification. Over the longest trips, journey time savings would be between 5 and 10 minutes per trip. This reduction in journey time will benefit existing riders and attract new ones.
  • There are significant operating savings associated with electrification, up to $18 million per year for the recommended option.
  • Electrification will be a significant step towards achieving the long term goals and objectives of The Big Move for a GO Express Rail service. Express Rail is a vision for even faster and more frequent service, with trains operating in the peak period as frequently as every five minutes.

Besides having their eye on headways that are unimaginable for the Chicago region, I suspect that Toronto has the advantage of hydroelectric resources that make electric power much cheaper than here.

Also, I believe Toronto and Ontario have Governments that are more oriented towards serving their public -- rather than the S I L L Y, Sibling-Rivalry, Feifdom oriented, Nepotism driven so-called "Transit Agencies" that we are cursed with here in NE Illinois!!

LouisVanDerWright Oct 23, 2014 2:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 6779300)
Also worth noting that Norfolk Southern's abandoned line along 58th St will be donated to the city in exchange for some city-owned parcels near 61st and State. Community organizers want to turn this into a trail like the Bloomingdale, although I'm guessing it will be more basic like the Weber Spur on the far North Side.

This is the first I've heard of this path. I always wondered what the point of that tiny little path that crosses over peterson was. It makes much more sense connected to a much larger bike path. We have got to keep tying all these paths together because we could really make something special out of it given all the surplus rail infrastructure we have in this city.

http://justyna.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8...7566970c-800wi

From here: http://justyna.typepad.com/bike_chic...ike-trail.html

Mr Downtown Oct 23, 2014 2:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CTA Gray Line (Post 6779555)
Also, I believe Toronto and Ontario have Governments that are more oriented towards serving their public -- rather than the S I L L Y, Sibling-Rivalry, Feifdom oriented, Nepotism driven so-called "Transit Agencies" that we are cursed with here in NE Illinois!!

I doubt that anyone who's watched the GTA's "subway wars" over the last 20 years would share your opinion.

Nor does your name-calling suggest how Illinois's agencies should be structured differently. "Throw the bums out" is not a philosophy of governance.

sammyg Oct 23, 2014 3:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CTA Gray Line (Post 6779555)
Also, I believe Toronto and Ontario have Governments that are more oriented towards serving their public -- rather than the S I L L Y, Sibling-Rivalry, Feifdom oriented, Nepotism driven so-called "Transit Agencies" that we are cursed with here in NE Illinois!!

People from Chicago always assume problems are unique to them. I used to live in Northern California, and the transit agencies there make ours look absolutely impeccable. Google the Diridon family, for starters.

schwerve Oct 23, 2014 4:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 6779300)
Yes, in a limited fashion. It may take a long time for NS to negotiate individually with the many property owners in the area, but they are rebuilding all the viaducts along 51st St and constructing a connection ("Echo") at 58th St between their two lines as a precursor to the eventual yard expansion.

http://www.nscorp.com/content/dam/in...day-slides.pdf

I believe there's only ~10 properties left, maybe less. They've already started doing some utility work.


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