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-   -   CHICAGO | 130 N Franklin | 751 FT | 51 FLOORS (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=199537)

marothisu Nov 28, 2022 8:53 AM

Nm

rivernorthlurker Nov 28, 2022 1:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ahoi (Post 9800675)
Per Mackensen (YIMBY)

"I think if JPMC were to stay in Chicago then I don’t think they are looking for a location near their current HQ. I rather suspect they are going to West Loop or River District (near the casino) or Lincoln Yards or Moodys."

https://forum.newyorkyimby.com/t/chi...t-floors/19856

Thanks, adding the last line of the post:

Quote:

According to insider information, Gate Way Towers (The78) was also under discussion, but nothing came of it.
So they are looking.... Looking at the 78 also fits the aforementioned modus operandi of them looking outside the Loop.

Building a tower outside the Loop - even if not that tall, is extremely exciting to me. It has the potential to really supercharge a new neighborhood/development - much like Google did to Fulton Market many years ago as being one of the first movers there.

rivernorthlurker Nov 28, 2022 1:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UrbanDweller98 (Post 9800378)
Really wish JPMC would've went with John Buck Company's proposal for 655 W Madison, 971' with a nice design albeit on a podium. Even if they go with 130 N Franklin I doubt Tischman Speyer could do better than this

Tishman Speyer is the developer for JPMC's new HQ tower at 270 Park Ave in Manhattan. They can definitely do better.

thegoatman Nov 28, 2022 2:06 PM

imagine a 900 footer in the West Loop, would be crazy

marothisu Nov 28, 2022 2:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rivernorthlurker (Post 9800706)
Thanks, adding the last line of the post:



So they are looking.... Looking at the 78 also fits the aforementioned modus operandi of them looking outside the Loop.

Building a tower outside the Loop - even if not that tall, is extremely exciting to me. It has the potential to really supercharge a new neighborhood/development - much like Google did to Fulton Market many years ago as being one of the first movers there.

The person on that forum has no idea. The fact they said "if they leave"...JPMC was never considering leaving Chicago. And yes, they've been actively looking for sites for a new tower as 1 potential option of the future in Chicago.

Zapatan Nov 28, 2022 5:16 PM

If Chase doesn't anchor this then I guess we get two new office towers, provided they find someone to anchor this one.

Could be a blessing in disguise although if Chase builds out of the loop they may not build that high. You think they'd go for a complex / office park instead?

marothisu Nov 28, 2022 6:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zapatan (Post 9800901)
If Chase doesn't anchor this then I guess we get two new office towers, provided they find someone to anchor this one.

Could be a blessing in disguise although if Chase builds out of the loop they may not build that high. You think they'd go for a complex / office park instead?

JPMC is not abandoning the downtown area no matter what it decides as the future working arrangements of most of its office work force in Chicago (their site in the western burbs is very small). I'd say there's about a 0% chance of an "office park" and anywhere will be near ample public/commuter rail transit.

For all we know they could say screw it and just do literally nothing - not even large scale renovations of the existing tower.

ardecila Nov 28, 2022 6:55 PM

Chase is currently sinking money into their existing tower - replacing all the landscaping around Exelon Plaza, rebuilding the tunnel to 20 S Clark at huge expense, etc. Strange behavior if they're planning to leave.

But let's assume they do leave. Why would they go to an emerging area like Fulton Market or Lincoln Yards when the financial sector is still so concentrated in the Loop? If NYC is any guide, you could see a large back-office operation in those areas, like Citicorp in Long Island City or Goldman Sachs in Jersey City. But the upper levels will want to remain in the Loop for their proximity to the exchanges, law firms, government, etc.

marothisu Nov 28, 2022 6:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 9800998)
Chase is currently sinking money into their existing tower - replacing all the landscaping around Exelon Plaza, rebuilding the tunnel to 20 S Clark at huge expense, etc. Strange behavior if they're planning to leave.

But let's assume they do leave. Why would they go to an emerging area like Fulton Market or Lincoln Yards when the financial sector is still so concentrated in the Loop? If NYC is any guide, you could see a large back-office operation in those areas, like Citicorp in Long Island City or Goldman Sachs in Jersey City. But the upper levels will want to remain in the Loop for their proximity to the exchanges, law firms, government, etc.

My guess for Fulton Market would be for something like tech and tech product roles, which have expanded a lot for the company in Chicago. I would expect the prestige parts to stay in The Loop no matter what. There used to be many tech workers foerJPMC in another building closer to OPO for the record until they mostly moved to Chase Tower.

ardecila Nov 28, 2022 7:05 PM

That's possible but it's not clear to me what tech offices gain from agglomeration in places like Fulton Market. After all, the tech industry was born in the office parks of Silicon Valley and Rte 128.

The appeal of "tech hub" neighborhoods like Fulton, Mission Bay, Kendall Square, Chelsea seems to be purely about lifestyle amenities (bars, restaurants, general cool vibes). Not a lot of concrete business advantages. They justify it by saying that cool neighborhoods attract top talent, but that is less important post-Covid with all the remote work. At one time you could argue those areas offered cheaper rents too, but I'm not sure that's still true with the post-Covid collapse of traditional CBDs. Even Google decided the Loop was a stronger place for expansion than Fulton Market, once the cost of entry was lower.

marothisu Nov 28, 2022 7:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 9801011)
That's possible but it's not clear to me what tech offices gain from agglomeration in places like Fulton Market. After all, the tech industry was born in the office parks of Silicon Valley and Rte 128.

The appeal of "tech hub" neighborhoods like Fulton, Mission Bay, Kendall Square, Chelsea seems to be purely about lifestyle amenities (bars, restaurants, general cool vibes). Not a lot of concrete business advantages. They justify it by saying that cool neighborhoods attract top talent, but that is less important post-Covid with all the remote work. At one time you could argue those areas offered cheaper rents too, but I'm not sure that's still true with the post-Covid collapse of traditional CBDs. Even Google decided the Loop was a stronger place for expansion than Fulton Market, once the cost of entry was lower.

It is about marketing and gaining certain types of talent. There's a reason JPMC has a huge tech office near Hudson Yards as well as downtown Brooklyn, with a "cool" urban tech office feel instead of putting it on stuffy Park Ave (yes many tech ppl are there). A number of tech people from these types of companies have gone to work Google, Meta, Amazon, Apple, etc in the last small handful of years.

It's a huge talent grab right now in that section of the industry and now the typical FAANG etc are involved. Many of these companies are now vying for the same talent and the "we are a prestigious financial firm" alone doesn't cut it anymore for those roles ,especially as these roles have gained way more importance in the industry (JPMC's tech budget per year is nearly $15B now for example. Bank of America spends over $11B a year now).

Zapatan Nov 28, 2022 7:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marothisu (Post 9800971)

For all we know they could say screw it and just do literally nothing - not even large scale renovations of the existing tower.

Given the current state of things and economy this wouldn't be surprising.


Quote:

That's possible but it's not clear to me what tech offices gain from agglomeration in places like Fulton Market. After all, the tech industry was born in the office parks of Silicon Valley and Rte 128.
That's why I was partially suspecting they'd build an office park a bit out of the city instead of a tower, it'd probably be more economical too.

Although on the flip side JPMC isn't a tech company, so it would just be for the tech branch. Maybe they'd still put their financial executives in a tower.

marothisu Nov 28, 2022 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zapatan (Post 9801066)
That's why I was partially suspecting they'd build an office park a bit out of the city instead of a tower, it'd probably be more economical too.

There is literally a 0% chance this happens.


Quote:

Although on the flip side JPMC isn't a tech company, so it would just be for the tech branch. Maybe they'd still put their financial executives in a tower.
JPMC employs over 55K tech people with an annual budget for IT only of $14 BILLION. This is more money budgeted for IT than companies like eBay or Discover Financial make in revenue in an entire year and barely below companies like Uber and Adobe. It employs over 2X more tech people alone than Uber has total employees, period. Chicago has in the multiple of thousands of tech workers and could probably fill 15 floors of Chase Tower alone with just tech (not counting adjacent roles). JPMC engineering has completely rebranded itself as well and more and more big firms like this and WF compete with FAANG for talent now.

It's 2022,. Time to update how you think of a "tech company."


In short - who knows what the plans are for this site. But discounting *any* company to build some tower that would take 3+ years out to complete anyway is shortsighted. Recessions don't typically last that long.

bhawk66 Nov 28, 2022 11:02 PM

Please make it stop. For eff sakes.

ardecila Nov 29, 2022 4:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zapatan (Post 9801066)
That's why I was partially suspecting they'd build an office park a bit out of the city instead of a tower, it'd probably be more economical too.

Although on the flip side JPMC isn't a tech company, so it would just be for the tech branch. Maybe they'd still put their financial executives in a tower.

Yeah I don't see that happening. Even in dying downtowns like Cleveland or St Louis, the banks are the last companies to leave. They are too symbolically important to move out to some office park in the burbs. The fact that they have tech departments now doesn't change that.

I'm just interested in whether they would consider a downtown-adjacent neighborhood like Fulton, or if they are too tightly committed to being in the Loop. We've seen other old-economy companies move to Fulton (like Kimberly-Clark, John Deere, etc) so it's not just "cool" tech, advertising and design firms.

Zapatan Nov 30, 2022 4:04 AM

Makes sense, I'd also note Silicon Valley is unique geographically and has a lot of nice office-parky places between two major metros (SF and San Jose).

I don't actually want Chase to build an office park so if they build a tower instead, awesome.

Question is, who'd anchor this one / would it be converted into mixed use?

Chicagolover88 Nov 30, 2022 4:16 AM

Well this new tower is a huge letdown. Disappointing to say the least

gandalf612 Nov 30, 2022 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zapatan (Post 9801066)
That's why I was partially suspecting they'd build an office park a bit out of the city instead of a tower, it'd probably be more economical too.

Dozens of companies have moved into the city from the suburbs including Google in the last decade, including huge ones like McD's, I can't name a single one that's gone the opposite direction. Yet you seem to think Chase is going to? This is apparently somehow news to you but as a Gen Z I'll happily confirm that young people like to live places with amenities and don't want to spend hours commuting to the office. The suburbs don't have amenities, the CEO of Chase has blasted work from home and prefers people come to the office, follow the line to the OBVIOUS conclusion.

Klippenstein Dec 1, 2022 8:47 PM

Since I'm skeptical about the hypothetical height bump, I'm actually liking the tower. Any building shorter than a supertall is going to be pretty well hidden in this location, so as long as there's great street level activation I'm happy. And the street level looks pretty damn cool to me.

https://chicagoyimby.com/wp-content/...7-1024x657.png

Briguy Dec 1, 2022 11:30 PM

I’m hoping this is just to get the PD extended. The renderings still look sort of place-holdery like they’re only half designed. I’m hoping for a final, larger redesign if chase signs a lease. Otherwise this smaller design would financially work for a much smaller anchor tenant.


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