Plus St Louis-Chicago and Madison-Milwaukee both have one thing in common: they involve connecting their State's capital with its largest city. Especially for Illinois, I'm sure a lot of legislators would love the idea of having an alternative to driving or flying when traveling to Chicago.

In the interest of keeping things tidy, can we move the HSR discussion over to the Midwest Regional Rail thread? Other than the Englewood Flyover, most of the money will be spent outside of Chicagoland. Currently, we have three redundant discussions here, in the national HSR thread, and the Midwest thread.

Could be a "General Developments" topic, but anyone got any idea how to transport several hundred thousand people to Montrose and 63rd Street beaches at the same time? By the time a remote parking and shuttle bus regime is set up, will there actually be any cost savings to ending the Grant Park fireworks?

Leave it to politicians who get driven everywhere to think that downtown crowds are even possible absent rail lines to get people there.

^Yeah, I don't think we've heard the real reason for cancelling the downtown fireworks.

This is also the reason I've been dubious of the plan to eventually move the fests further south in Grant Park. I think the further they get from transit—especially Union and Ogilvie—the more problematic for the city and the less attractive to suburbanites.

Union and Ogilvie yes, but CTA provides hundreds of thousands of additional (above baseline) roundtrip rides on July 3, too - only feasible with the capacity of a rail system and calling in tons of extra buses for overtime duty. I suppose there is -some- precedent for determining how people are accessing Montrose and 63rd Beaches by analyzing past summer utilization trends, but the magnitude of telling hundreds of thousands of people to go there means some major planning is required for bus service and directing people to parking (since many will drive anyway).

...agreed we haven't heard the real reason, I find it nearly impossible to believe that the additional marginal tax revenue created by these events (sales, hospitality, parking taxes in and near downtown) don't far and away overcome the costs of security. There's something else we don't know, and it's probably a horrible reason.

^ I was just going to say, I kind of wonder if, due to crime issues in the past, they're not trying to create a separate celebration for north and south siders?

If that's the reason, it's an unfortunate one, because continuing to create racial divisions is NOT the answer to Chicago's problems...

Another curious thing is that July 4 is a huge day for Mexican families to come to Montrose; in fact, many years the park vehicular entrances have to be closed off in early afternoon. So now they'll be told that the only people welcome in the park that day are young adults who can walk from the L or bicycle over.

Same thing in Jackson Park, where there's a longstanding holiday weekend tradition of big African-American extended families or groups holding barbecues complete with tents and (maybe) overnight camping. How much of that will be chased away because vehicles can't enter the park on the 4th?

I'm amazed this isn't talked about much. In just over a week bus service is going to be cut back 20% and train service 10%. The CTA will be a rush hour service essentailly and outside of rush hour the waits especially for bus service will be long and will be packed.

All this talk about rebuilding downtown and building urban neighborhoods will be moot soon.

Is Metra planning on Electrifying anymore Routes in the Chicago Metro?

^No. We'll be lucky if they don't unelectrify the Electric District the next time the catenary needs serious work. If it weren't for the downtown terminal being underground, this might already be under way in lieu of buying the ugly new Nippon Sharyo cars.

Metra only operates the suburban trains, not the metro.

Oh what I would do with Metra if I was in charge...

How could electrification expansion happen, though? All the commuter lines are shared (more specifically, owned) by freight companies.

Are you aware that BNSF is exploring the benefits of electrification?

I think BSNF plans to electrify at least 10 corridors and a total of 1000 + miles , i think they operate a few of Metra lines.

The fools in Springfield are too busy with their elections to worry about their constituents.

Not all. Metra actually owns the Metra Electric District, Rock Island District, and the two Milwaukee Districts.

CTA chief: We'll take union's furlough days offer
CUTS LOOM | But he says it hasn't come up during talks

January 31, 2010
BY MARY WISNIEWSKI Transportation Reporter

The head of the CTA said Saturday he would "gladly" accept a union offer of unpaid furlough days and deferred 2011 wage increases to help avoid service cuts but hasn't heard that offer yet at the negotiating table.

CTA President Richard Rodriguez was responding to comments made Friday by Darrell Jefferson, president of Amalgamated Transit Union Local 241, representing bus drivers. Jefferson had said the union's offer would cut $80 million from the CTA's budget, through furlough days and a pay deferment, but that the CTA walked away from the offer.

Not entirely, though? I thought that at some point along the line, ownership reverts to CN/CSX/CP, respectively.

in other words its a game right now to who is going to back down first. This is our annual scare then.

Except that 'management' (a.k.a. 'the taxpayer' and his representation) has nothing to offer other than adjusting the number of layoffs proportional to whatever wage/benefit concessions the union makes.

oh I know, its still a hell of a game though, and I think that the City/CTA are banking on union concessions otherwise 1000 layoffs is too huge for the union to accept.

Hilkevitch wrote a column in the Trib on the subject this morning:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/o...,880617.column

Interesting quotes:

Heck of a standoff we've got here. Observation: the CTA management seems to have won all of the talking points here, fairly or unfairly. The story, in just about any outlet you read it from, is pretty uniform in how it is presented.

"CTA management has made cuts and asked for cuts from the unions. Unions refuse to budge and claim the management is still bloated. Unions offer 'deals' (which don't necessarily make a lot of sense) to the CTA management through the media, not at the bargaining table. CTA cuts loom as standoff continues."

Whether or not it is 100% factually correct, that's the story that's out there and it doesn't make the unions look very good. Not only are they screwed no matter how this plays out (layoffs or less layoff plus concessions), they are likely bombing in terms of public support. Not sure if they realize how badly they are losing the PR war yet...

But unions don't have to be subjected to popular vote. What does it matter if the public views them as intransigent jerks? Their voting members—except for the 1000 newest ones—got the deal of the century.

In poker, it doesn't really matter how likeable you are.

It matters because people in the state or region could turn against unions for the CTA or other state agencies. For example VivaLFuego posted this (#6355) on January 21st.

That could come to a spectacular end. The popularity of unions is plummeting especially since the recession started and the automakers were bailed out. I could imagine a referendum on the 2010 (still time to do it I think) or 2012 ballot banning unions for transit organizations and other state agencies or at least repealing the above provisions. Then they would really be up a creek. You would have Chicagoans fed up. I have to imagine down state would be fine with an anti=union vote.

On amending the Illinois constitution by referendum:
Article IV of the Illinois consitution covers legislative matters.

^ Couldn't agree more. The existence of unions, still, is at the behest of the Government who supports their existence and the need for agencies such as CTA to deal with them.

And the citizens of Illinois elect their Government.

I think it might be wishful thinking to expect an anti-union vote in the city of the Haymarket Incident. Just last year, the public employee unions—worried about their pensions—managed to bury a constitutional convention.

^ I'm not talking about the city. I'm talking about the State.

Mobile Garden Rail Car To Be Tacked on To Chicago Transit System

http://themobilegarden.org/media/ima...-15%20copy.jpg

Oh boy... get ready for the empty Jay's bag and crushed beer bottle express...

Good thing it has all that greenery. The extra pollution from hauling around a couple extra tons for no reason will help kill off plants in other places.

Such a dumb idea. I hope they don't actually do it.

I didnt realize the train was diesel powered and a garden car would weigh several tons.

^ The bogeys alone (the steel wheels, the axles, the apparatus that the axles are attached to, etc.) probably reach a couple tons -- especially if they include braking equipment and the electrical equipment associated with that. Ditto for sod and its water content. Etcetera.

As for emissions, it sounds like you are suggesting that the electricity bought by CTA is mostly generated by wind, solar, or something else non-polluting. Sorry, but that is not the case.

Yeah, that garden car is the dumbest thing ever. Its like someone found a way how to make mass transit un-green...

Well, let's put it this way: the main reason the unions have so power in this town is that they boost the electability of elected officials. Elected officials are willing to bend over backwards for groups that ensure they will be re-elected.

Given that, a) the number of employed union employees is shrinking by the day and b) general public sentiment is starting to turn against the unions, I think there is a fair case to be made that union support isn't what it used to be for politicians. To me, it is simply a question of where the tipping point is. When the union armies get small enough and public support is sufficiently eroded, it will just make political sense to abandon policies supporting unions. Whether and when that happens is the question.

Wait, the garden car was serious?

I'm curious to know how plants will survive in speeds of 50-60 mph, constant gforce shifts and as someone else pointed out,a target for trash. I could see a few people that just missed the train make a jump for it as well.Just last week I was on the #9 bus in the morning when a kid busted out the back door while we were doing about 25mph. He missed his school stop and knocked the door open and jumped.

I refuse to believe that rendering is not from The Onion.

This cannot be real...if it is it is outrageous.

The train of course isn't diesel, but even an electric trains carbon foorprint is tracked back to the source of energy production, and that is overwhelmingly emission belching coal fired power plants. See how it works?

Beyond the environmental and cost concerns, have they thought about safety? As depicted, it would seem like someone could just jump on top of that garden car when the train is stopped. Can't stop people from doing idiotic things, I suppose, but it just seems like they'd be tempting idiocy...

Good point. I think they should add a cage around it, with barbed wire to prevent people from clinging to it. Matter of fact, better be safe than sorry, and add another car to it with attack dogs and security personnel toting assault rifles while guarding it. I might have to create a rendering for this.

Whether intended or not, the Green Car is a very effective parody. How about driving some green flatbed trucks around to bring some much needed plant life to the interstate? Sometimes folks get their head so far into an idea that the lines between clever and idiotic vanish to them.

I will go ahead and already give this thing a name:

'The trash car'. I can just imagine the sound of beer cans clinking together from a half a mile away, and people on the platform saying, "hey, I think the train's coming!"

I've never seen anyone do anything like that with Santa's open car on the Holiday Train.

Sure, but the santa car at least has one guard: santa. ;)

I'm just picturing this car rolling along the red line route at 11pm on a friday...oh the fun the bar crowd would have...

Good material, I'm stealing that.

I'm wondering if this garden car would be the 9th car in a train and rather than stopping at the platform, it would extend backwards beyond the platform? Though that still wouldn't stop people from being able to jump onto it once the train starts moving forward...

The safest place for it would probably be as the lead car, being pushed. That way the operator can see it at all times and slap around any hoodlums who get on it.

Past that, though, I think it's a really stupid idea to actually implement. It's a cute idea as long as it's ONLY an idea, but if implemented, it's pretty stupid.

It's funny because it's such a fantastic overthinking of a minor issue. Need more greenery for commuters? Put some freaking plants in the stations. Done. Having a train pull them around means than no one will be able to be near them. How much time do you spend standing next to trains? At best people might encounter this plant car for 15 seconds while waiting for another train at a loop station. Otherwise people just get on the train when it arrives. The riders on the train would have no perception of a car of plants at the end of the train.

The fact that the artist responsible had enough time to create a slick graphic before realizing any of this...

It's 5% cute, 95% waste of everyones time.