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-   -   CHICAGO | City Casino (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=239761)

ardecila Mar 29, 2022 1:35 AM

The hesitation is that Lincoln Yards is massively unpopular with voters after CTU and other progressive orgs decided to demonize it. Any transit money spent there (even if it covers the whole North Branch) will be seen as robbing from more important needs. That said, it's kind of stupid to try reading the tea leaves. This is Chicago, the mayor controls everything and our current mayor does not remotely understand the value of good public transit to economic development. Pretty much what you'd expect for somebody from Ohio.

Lincoln Yards is already getting $1.3B in TIF money - this won't do much for transit other than rebuilding the Clybourn stop, but at least the bike and pedestrian situation will massively improve in that area and will connect to other highly walkable areas in Bucktown and Lincoln Park. If LY can get built out as a truly mixed-use area and not just an office park or a vertical subdivision, then there's still hope that it won't completely devolve into a snarling traffic mess.

thegoatman Mar 29, 2022 1:43 AM

Lightfoot really gives zero fucks about public transit, so dissapointing coming from Rahm who was so stringent on improving public transit and making the city more sustainable. Has there even been a major CTA expansion (not counting red/purple line fix) during her tenure?

But you're right, very excited for the 606 expansion.

ardecila Mar 29, 2022 1:50 AM

^ No, there hasn't been a big CTA project completed during her tenure, but the timeline for all CTA projects is much longer than a mayoral term. It takes years to plan a project, do the environmental work, do the engineering, get funding lined up etc before a shovel even hits the ground. Rahm took credit for the Morgan station but that was launched while Daley was still mayor.

Even now, most of the CTA projects in planning stages were around before MLL took office. Her problem is that she has not introduced any transit priorities of her own - she just doesn't care. Even her signature urban development project - Invest South/West - is just a rebranded version of a program that Rahm started. Now she came out this week calling Chicago a "car city" and promising gas tax relief to drivers, literally starving CTA of revenue for drivers' benefit.

I do give her some credit for hiring Maurice Cox, who has brought very high standards of design into the DPD review process. The archirecture on large proposals now is significantly better than 10 years ago - just look at how the Bally's casino got reshaped from the initial renderings to the latest ones.

TR Devlin Mar 29, 2022 4:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 9581866)
The archirecture on large proposals now is significantly better than 10 years ago - just look at how the Bally's casino got reshaped from the initial renderings to the latest ones.

IMO, Bally's and the 78 are kind of meh and Hard Rock is clown shoes. What I'd really like to see is what Morris Adjmi would do if someone gave him a chance - especially at the Bally site.

Here's a link to his website.

Toasty Joe Mar 29, 2022 3:55 PM

The 78 is still my favorite location for this casino, but if it means no dedicated red line stop that could be a dealbreaker, because a 10+ min walk to the closest red line stop will likely mean more on-site parking and less overall height from the residential buildings. If Related is serious about making this a lively neighborhood, walkability should be priority #1. I'd hope that with the blank slate they have and expensive planners on budget, they can seamlessly integrate the casino's inevitable car traffic and reach sufficient density to warrant the train stop.

Hard Rock and Bally's could be better with redesigns (and more height), but IMO these more prominent locations will eventually get developed with better looking and higher use buildings than what's being proposed here. I'm hopeful something special will happen instead... moreso at the Tribune site than One Central

ardecila Mar 29, 2022 5:49 PM

Unfortunately I'm not sure Related will snap back to the previous scheme at The 78 even if they lose the casino bid.

I hope they do, but there's a good chance they just look for another huge anchor like a Chicago Fire stadium or something. Hell, at this point I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to build a Topgolf (wouldn't be the first time a Chicago megadevelopment started with golf).

thegoatman Mar 29, 2022 6:01 PM

Chicago does need an Ikea and Topgolf

twister244 Mar 29, 2022 7:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thegoatman (Post 9582549)
Gurnee does need an Ikea and Topgolf

Fixed it for you.

Mr Downtown Mar 31, 2022 8:12 PM

I think it's worth remembering that a casino at The 78 will actually be closer to the existing Roosevelt CTA station (1800 ft) than to a new Red Line station at 15th & Clark (2000 ft). Realistically, any casino will have to run a shuttle van.

An aerial tramway that would link McCormick Place, Chinatown Red Line station, The 78, Post Office/Union Station Blue Line is actually not the worst idea I've ever heard—but it's not one I've heard anyone propose, either.

gebs Mar 31, 2022 8:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown (Post 9585399)

An aerial tramway that would link McCormick Place, Chinatown Red Line station, The 78, Post Office/Union Station Blue Line is actually not the worst idea I've ever heard—but it's not one I've heard anyone propose, either.

There was an aerial tram proposal back in 2015-2016 that would link Wolf Point with Navy Pier. It wasn't a terrible idea then and I still like it now, whether it's downtown or the connector route you suggested. Lord knows there would be a huge line on weekends to ride it.

west-town-brad Mar 31, 2022 9:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 9582532)
Unfortunately I'm not sure Related will snap back to the previous scheme at The 78 even if they lose the casino bid.

I hope they do, but there's a good chance they just look for another huge anchor like a Chicago Fire stadium or something. Hell, at this point I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to build a Topgolf (wouldn't be the first time a Chicago megadevelopment started with golf).

Amazing that related and the bears can’t figure something out for a new stadium and all kind of associated development.

ardecila Apr 1, 2022 1:28 PM

I don't see how they make that work; a stadium will have 10x the traffic that a casino does. Not just on Sundays in the fall, but weekends year-round. They'd have to build the Red Line stop in that case, but they'd also need to accommodate the hordes of tailgaters. Soldier Field has an expressway (I-55 to LSD) feeding right into the parking garages. The 78 certainly will not have that, ever.

And a stadium deal risks blowing up the other deal with DPI; I'm sure they don't want their crown jewel of tech innovation overlooking a stadium parking lot.

west-town-brad Apr 1, 2022 2:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 9585955)
I don't see how they make that work; a stadium will have 10x the traffic that a casino does. Not just on Sundays in the fall, but weekends year-round. They'd have to build the Red Line stop in that case, but they'd also need to accommodate the hordes of tailgaters. Soldier Field has an expressway (I-55 to LSD) feeding right into the parking garages. The 78 certainly will not have that, ever.

And a stadium deal risks blowing up the other deal with DPI; I'm sure they don't want their crown jewel of tech innovation overlooking a stadium parking lot.

When have developers ever cared about traffic or “overlooking parking lots” to hold back a plan… if it keeps the Bears in Chicago and if this plan is a good investment none of these issues will matter, especially if it nets a sofi stadium against the backdrop of the Chicago skyline.

twister244 Apr 1, 2022 3:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by west-town-brad (Post 9586003)
When have developers ever cared about traffic or “overlooking parking lots” to hold back a plan… if it keeps the Bears in Chicago and if this plan is a good investment none of these issues will matter, especially if it nets a sofi stadium against the backdrop of the Chicago skyline.

I'm all for keeping the Bears in the city, but not at the cost of hijacking any one of these developments into an urban atrocity. That's my worry with the Hard Rock proposal - The Bears will talk to the Hard Rock / OC folks to combine their interests and go to the city with one big "bow tie" deal to keep the Bears in the city, get massive tax incentives from the city/state, while putting in a shiny new casino. Under that scenario, Tribune/78 proposals die a quick death.

Then again, maybe the Bears are dead serious about Arlington Heights, the city gives them a big FU, Hard Rock dies a quick death, and we get Tribune/78.

CaptainJilliams Apr 1, 2022 5:25 PM

Yeah, while I believe the Bears will ultimately make the move to Arlington Heights, I also think they'll take their time and see what the city and Hardrock's ultimate plan looks like for the lakefront and Soldier Field. After all, I thought I had read somewhere that the Bears won't officially close/confirm sale of the property until late 2022/early 2023.

ardecila Apr 1, 2022 7:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twister244 (Post 9586100)
I'm all for keeping the Bears in the city, but not at the cost of hijacking any one of these developments into an urban atrocity. That's my worry with the Hard Rock proposal - The Bears will talk to the Hard Rock / OC folks to combine their interests and go to the city with one big "bow tie" deal to keep the Bears in the city, get massive tax incentives from the city/state, while putting in a shiny new casino. Under that scenario, Tribune/78 proposals die a quick death.

Then again, maybe the Bears are dead serious about Arlington Heights, the city gives them a big FU, Hard Rock dies a quick death, and we get Tribune/78.

Honestly I think putting a dome on Soldier Field with taxpayer help in the low 9 figures is probably the best deal we're gonna get.

A new stadium, whether in Chicago or the suburbs, will cost in the billions and no way are the Bears gonna foot that bill. If the Bears commit to Arlington Heights, they will likely enter a deal with ISFA to provide a huge direct subsidy or property tax break.

r18tdi Apr 4, 2022 3:54 PM

Alderman Says He ‘Cannot Support’ A Casino At 78 Mega-Development Amid Neighborhood Opposition
https://blockclubchicago.org/2022/04...od-opposition/

Sounds about right for Sigcho-Lopez, and definitely improves the odds for the casino ending up in Walter "Build-It" Burnett's ward.... Though I still suspect the city is working on some shitty backroom deal with the Bears and One Central.

thegoatman Apr 4, 2022 4:20 PM

Lmao Sigcho-Lopez hates development. 18th street could be the mexican Randolph/Fulton Market st., but he keeps swaying away restaurants and other development in the neighborhood to "preserve the culture"

twister244 Apr 4, 2022 4:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by r18tdi (Post 9588460)
Alderman Says He ‘Cannot Support’ A Casino At 78 Mega-Development Amid Neighborhood Opposition
https://blockclubchicago.org/2022/04...od-opposition/

Sounds about right for Sigcho-Lopez, and definitely improves the odds for the casino ending up in Walter "Build-It" Burnett's ward.... Though I still suspect the city is working on some shitty backroom deal with the Bears and One Central.

What a load of crap...... If the 78 casino goes down in flames, then my chips are all in on the Tribune site. I really don't want to see the city cave and give a ton of tax incentives to keep the Bears in and help subsidize a casino.

jpIllInoIs Apr 4, 2022 6:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twister244 (Post 9588521)
What a load of crap...... If the 78 casino goes down in flames, then my chips are all in on the Tribune site. I really don't want to see the city cave and give a ton of tax incentives to keep the Bears in and help subsidize a casino.

Agreed!


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