SkyscraperPage Forum

SkyscraperPage Forum (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/index.php)
-   General Development (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=86)
-   -   CHICAGO | City Casino (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=239761)

ardecila Feb 14, 2022 8:33 PM

Lightfoot spoke about Soldier Field today - she mentioned a few pain points, including difficulty of access.

Makes me wonder if she is preparing something like the "CHI Line" as part of a package to keep the Bears in the city. There's no way to expand parking or roadways around the stadium, so the only way to improve access is with transit. We have needed a downtown circulator for decades now, so this would be a good idea. And if we're gonna spend taxpayer money on sports teams, I prefer when that investment can also benefit Chicagoans outside of game days.

Lightfoot also mentioned a roof on the stadium. I have no idea how you could do that without making the stadium look even more comical than it already is. And it does nothing for the seating capacity which is among the smallest in the NFL.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 9526907)
The red line is actually the "CHI Line", which should be yellow per the legend. It is a sort of vague circulator proposal that Bob Dunn has included in all the One Central plans. They have not specified what kind of transit it would be, or who would pay to build/operate it. Given the routing I assume it would be some kind of bus route, requiring an extension of the McCormick busway to 31st, and a busway onramp at McFetridge


Randomguy34 Feb 14, 2022 8:59 PM

Greg Hinz mentioned a few months ago that Landmark Development was exploring doming Soldier Field as a part of One Central. With Lightfoot speaking about improving access and the recent Hard Rock website, I'm worried the city will choose One Central's casino to keep the Bears in the city

marothisu Feb 14, 2022 9:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 9536440)
We have needed a downtown circulator for decades now, so this would be a good idea. And if we're gonna spend taxpayer money on sports teams, I prefer when that investment can also benefit Chicagoans outside of game days.


Loop Connector has been a thing for awhile, and there was a resurgence in studying it a handful of years ago. It could work well for that depending on how it's executed.

Klippenstein Feb 14, 2022 9:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randomguy34 (Post 9536463)
Greg Hinz mentioned a few months ago that Landmark Development was exploring doming Soldier Field as a part of One Central. With Lightfoot speaking about improving access and the recent Hard Rock website, I'm worried the city will choose One Central's casino to keep the Bears in the city

Nothing is definite yet. Even after the committee and mayor or whoever is in charge of the process make their decision it will still need to be approved by city council. If it relies on a huge payout to ONE Central that would certainly be a hard sell as many have voiced opposition to the legislation passed at the state level.

ardecila Feb 15, 2022 3:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marothisu (Post 9536502)
Loop Connector has been a thing for awhile, and there was a resurgence in studying it a handful of years ago. It could work well for that depending on how it's executed.

Yeah this would be essentially the same. Bus service on the McCormick Busway, with a few access ramps added at McFetridge, Lower Randolph, and maybe Balbo. Probably one new station "in the trench" at Monroe, with the rest of the stops being at street level near Navy Pier, Field Museum, Soldier Field, etc.

Handro Feb 15, 2022 3:52 PM

That would really be a shame to place a huge garish casino at the forefront of one of the most beautiful urban landscapes in the world. The Chicago skyline as viewed from the lake would definitely suffer from having both a giant Hard Rock casino and putrid alien Soldier Field with a tacked on roof.

Theoretically it's exciting to imagine so much new transit connectivity in Chicaog where it feels like our legacy system is barely holding on by a thread, but in practice all the stuff it would take to make it become a reality would be a little disappointing.

thegoatman Feb 15, 2022 4:22 PM

78 casino or bust...

r18tdi Feb 15, 2022 4:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randomguy34 (Post 9536389)
Lol Crain's is basically letting anyone submit an op-ed at this point.

A McCormick Place casino would be yet another mistake
Do Chicago and its people really want a black box blinking lurid, colored lighting to blemish its signature postcard-perfect lakefront and skyline?
https://www.chicagobusiness.com/opin...nother-mistake

Written by some guy who works for SOM (designer of the 78)... but of course that's not disclosed in the op-ed. :haha:

chris08876 Feb 15, 2022 4:47 PM

This is out of scale with the city, doesn't reflect the historical aspects of the present site and what is currently present at the site should stay as to not be out of touch with the surroundings! .... nah, just kidding.

Hopefully Rivers at The 78 rises. Best bid out of them all. Has the potential to be an instant icon and that is good for the city and business (tax revenue!). Hopefully it can muster through the city's convoluted process.


:fingerscrossed:

On a side note, your going to want parking. Because this has to look to a market in the sense of the metro and not just the city limits.

marothisu Feb 15, 2022 4:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by r18tdi (Post 9537313)
Written by some guy who works for SOM (designer of the 78)... but of course that's not disclosed in the op-ed. :haha:

JGMA designed the casino for The 78... and the casino going in there or not isn't going to magically cancel The 78 so I'm not sure what your point is?

r18tdi Feb 15, 2022 5:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marothisu (Post 9537340)
JGMA designed the casino for The 78... and the casino going in there or not isn't going to magically cancel The 78 so I'm not sure what your point is?

So you believe the firm masterplanning the 78 (which is still looking for its anchor tenant to commence vertical construction) is 100 percent impartial when it comes to site selection for the casino?

Randomguy34 Feb 15, 2022 7:28 PM

McPier, which ones Lakeside Center and the marshalling yards, doesn't want either site to be used for a casino. They're not as concerned about Hard Rock using McCormick Place's north building for a temporary casino, but said state law would still have to be changed to legally allow McPier to host a casino.

A casino at McCormick Place? Its oversight agency raises some serious red flags.
Article: https://www.chicagobusiness.com/greg...-report-argues

Report: https://www.scribd.com/document/5591...roposals-Final

r18tdi Feb 15, 2022 7:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randomguy34 (Post 9537565)
McPier, which ones Lakeside Center and the marshalling yards, doesn't want either site to be used for a casino. They're not as concerned about Hard Rock using McCormick Place's north building for a temporary casino, but said state law would still have to be changed to legally allow McPier to host a casino.

A casino at McCormick Place? Its oversight agency raises some serious red flags.
Article: https://www.chicagobusiness.com/greg...-report-argues

Report: https://www.scribd.com/document/5591...roposals-Final

That's surprising, wouldn't McPier stand to gain the most out of antyone from having the casino adjacent to all the conventions and hotels nearby that they own?

lakeshoredrive Feb 15, 2022 7:56 PM

When will the decision of the casino location be announced?

CrazyCres Feb 15, 2022 8:28 PM

McCormick Place CEO warns of casino impact

Any plan to convert parts of the convention campus for gambling could hurt operations and push some shows out of town, Larita Clark told the board of the Metropolitan Pier and Exposition Authority.

Link: https://chicago.suntimes.com/2022/2/...-casino-impact

Kngkyle Feb 16, 2022 1:45 AM

Pretty damning stuff for Lakeside Center from McPier. Dealbreaker?

Rivers Chicago At McCormick
•Lakeside Center is well utilized and all parts of the building, including exhibit halls, meeting spaces, and convocation space need to be replaced. A ballpark cost for replacement would be at least $900M and potentially over $1B.
•Lakeside Center houses critical mechanical and telecommunications infrastructure for the entire campus. The campus cannot operate without this, or without a replacement.
•To prevent loss of customers, the lost space of Lakeside Center will require that replacement space be fully operational before Lakeside is turned over to a developer. The estimated time would be approximately 72 months based on the West Building plan.
•There are several key customers (IMTS, Pack Expo) that use Lakeside Center and cannot be relocated. As customers expand beyond North and South, Lakeside is typically preferred over the West Building.
•Future business mix makes the need for replacement of meeting, ballroom, and convocation space critical.
•Stand alone Arie Crown Theater customers (small concerts, graduations, etc.)may be ‘lost’ to MPEA completely (due to concerns being near in a casino and size of Wintrust). Additionally, customers are concerned about direct connection to the casino.
•Construction could be disruptive, and many customers have a construction clause in their contract.
•Room blocks could be impacted for citywide events such as RSNA or IMTS, if there is decreased availability of campus hotels
•The change in use may require an amendment to the MPEA Act, the Park District Exposition Authority Lease Act, and the Lease Indenture between MPEA and the Chicago Park District.
•Due to its location, the Lakeside Center must be used for the public good. The Public Trust Doctrine has been successfully used to block lakefront development in the past.
•The change in use would require MPEA to address the impact of the new private use on the tax-exempt status of outstanding bonds

Ballys
•The letter of intent with the GRIT team will likely result in a legal battle with significant costs associated with it.
•The MPEA Act may need to be amended to allow for an agreement on the lease of the marshaling yards.
•Where and how to relocate the marshaling yards is the most significant issue.
o Maintaining access to the rest of the campus via Moe Drive (or an alternative) is imperative.
o There may need to be changes from CDOT to divert truck traffic.
• A structured marshaling facility will also carry with it increased operating and maintenance costs.
•Community engagement will be critical to address concerns and replacement plans.
•The current location, size, and functionality (scale, etc.) are a competitive advantage for the campus.
•New marshaling yards could increase customer costs depending on replacement plan and location.
•The new amenities could add synergies and provide position marketing opportunities.

Hard Rock
• A temporary casino in the North Building is not feasible due to schedule and disruption to daily business.
• A direct connection from the North Building to the casino, and proposed transit connections, may require reconfiguration of space.
•The proposed direct connection to the North Building presents concerns for customers related to security and distraction. Additionally, the transit connections could present concerns for clients in other buildings.
•This plan appears to require approval of the One Central development, which includes a lease for MPEA property and air rights.

west-town-brad Feb 16, 2022 1:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyCres (Post 9537701)
McCormick Place CEO warns of casino impact

Any plan to convert parts of the convention campus for gambling could hurt operations and push some shows out of town, Larita Clark told the board of the Metropolitan Pier and Exposition Authority.

Link: https://chicago.suntimes.com/2022/2/...-casino-impact

most importantly, my cushy job could be impacted

Kngkyle Feb 19, 2022 12:40 AM

Looks like the Tribune agrees with the majority here.

Quote:

Editorial: The best choice for the Chicago casino is The 78
By THE EDITORIAL BOARD
CHICAGO TRIBUNE |
FEB 18, 2022 AT 2:18 PM

....

We’ve read all the proposals, listened to arguments. We think Rivers is the most qualified and suitable operator, and the area known as The 78 is the most viable site.

Rush Street Gaming is a proven operator of arguably the most successful of the current Illinois casinos, Rivers in Des Plaines. The major investor, Neil Bluhm, has deep roots in this city and a vested interest in doing right by everyone.

Rivers has shown an ability to showcase Chicago businesses, such as Hugo’s Frog Bar, which has an outpost in Des Plaines. And we think it is the easiest of these three entities for Chicago to hold accountable in the long term.

The 78 (the name is a riff on Chicago’s existing 77 neighborhoods) is located south of the Loop and north of Chinatown. It’s bordered by Roosevelt Road to the north, Clark Street to the east, 16th Street to the south, and the South Branch of the Chicago River to the west. An important caveat is that the casino does not interfere with plans for the Discovery Partners Institute, the important research center to be operated by the University of Illinois. But there’s plenty of room on this 62-acre parcel of former railroad property now owned by Related Midwest.

The 78 site long has been a missing developmental link between downtown and the South Side. It’s an easy reach from the hotels in the Chicago Loop, especially once the planned new CTA station is built at 15th Street. And it does not displace anyone. Plus the planned infrastructure already is well along, which you cannot say about one of the more up-in-the-air competing sites, One Central.

Most important, there already are plans for an entertainment district of which this casino could (and should) just be a part.

The 78 comes, crucially, with river frontage. That would allow architects to throw away the usual shed approaches to casinos and build one open to the river, with riverside bars and dining and boat docking (both private vessels and water taxis) alongside. If done right, this could be a tourist-friendly expansion of former Mayor Rahm Emanuel’s inarguably successful Riverwalk project. And if that sounds elitist to you, remember that you want casinos to target those with disposable income for the benefit of the less well off. The site is also not far from McCormick Place, but not too close.

....
read more...https://www.chicagotribune.com/opini...awy-story.html

ardecila Feb 21, 2022 8:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kngkyle (Post 9542237)
Looks like the Tribune agrees with the majority here.



read more...https://www.chicagotribune.com/opini...awy-story.html

Sure, and the Tribune is also making an impartial judgment here when one of the other casino sites would tear down the Tribune printing plant. :rolleyes:

Conveniently, the editorial doesn't mention that site at all, and most of the arguments in favor of The 78 also apply at the Tribune site.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HVAC_Zach (Post 9544098)
^ One critique I must make- While Rahm executed the Riverwalk project, the original vision was that of Old Mayre R.J. Daley. He should be credited with it. There's an excellent sound bite floating around of Da Mayre sharing that vision at an event in the 1960s. "Imagine your lunch break with a fishing pole and a 'bottle a beer'..." :yes:

This is a great story, but it goes back even further than that. Ed Bennett designed Wacker Drive to look like the quays along the Seine in Paris, and he also intended the river level to become a pedestrian space just like Paris. It just took another century to happen.

west-town-brad Feb 21, 2022 9:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HVAC_Zach (Post 9544098)
^ One critique I must make- While Rahm executed the Riverwalk project, the original vision was that of Old Mayre R.J. Daley. He should be credited with it. There's an excellent sound bite floating around of Da Mayre sharing that vision at an event in the 1960s. "Imagine your lunch break with a fishing pole and a 'bottle a beer'..." :yes:

maybe but lots of people (especially politicians) have vision

few can execute


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:02 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.