The ESA is a project from a time where LIRR was crush loaded into Penn and the hot office market had moved to the east side of Midtown. Peak commuter demand has now been decimated by COVID (perhaps never to fully return) and the high end office market is more diffuse and subdued. Politicians like opening stations though so you can still get those funded as well as some extensions (SAS). Utica would be a relatively easy sell and directly benefit a ton of people.

Hudson Yards, within walking distance of Penn, has no doubt attracted more new office construction than has East Side Access. East Side Access can be easily accessed by the LIRR or NJ Transit (plus PATH) but not Metro North. For the the area around Grand Central to attract more office, it would need direct commuter service from New Jersey, either NJ Transit or PATH.

can we quit with this old utica train diblasio era nonsense and get back to the interborough express and get that done? sheesh! :haha:

you know what else is crazy? that you did not tell us how you scored this east side access tour -- whats the deets on that? :shrug:

A Utica subway has been a planning "priority" for 100 years. First with the original IRT Brooklyn Line provision then with the city's Independent plans of '29 and '39 then again after the war withthe BoT/TA transition then with the MTA Program for Action in '68... Then the city went bankrupt and only 63 St and Jamaica got actually built. DeBlasio just picked up the cause of the self evident need for a Utica subway.

I know a guy who works for the LIRR. The work elevator was out of service so we had to walk down/up 17 flights of steps (about 8 floors) to the concourse level. There weren't many guys working after hours, just a few guys working on the escalators. The escalators appear to be almost ready but we weren't able to walk down/up them, we had to use the concrete steps.

We were told that they are already testing trains but we didn't see anything happening on the tracks. They are planning to get some new electric work locomotives but don't have them yet. The ventilation system is so powerful that they'll be able to use diesel work locomotives if they need to.

I forgot to mention that there are four circular vent intakes in each station box, aligned with the cross-paths which are aligned with the escalators down from the same concourse. It's all built to be able to keep people safe in the event of a major fire, but it's pretty clever how they were able to use them as an architectural feature.

I also forgot to mention that he doesn't believe that they'll use all four elevator banks when they open. He thinks that they won't turn on the one nearest to the new JP Morgan tower until that tower is occupied. That tower is going to have 12,000+ workers.

Midtown East will continue to attract some high end office activity, the rezoning was consequential. The challenge especially now post-COVID is the comparatively (to other submarkets) high vacancy rates in the area outside the newer Class A builds. A lot of the rationale for building it in the first place is just no longer operative and options in the Hudson Yards area, as you note, are probably more attractive now.

Related my confidence that all the looooong escalators needed access the platform level can be kept in good service is um rather limited.

^ If I remember correctly MTA is contracting all escalator oversight and maintenence to Schindler and taking the responsibilty out of their hands. Best idea yet.

Yes and they did the install so conceivably they should be able to have minimal down time. Some of that will depend how well MTA rides the vendor too.

There are four banks of four escalators, so sixteen total. I think there's some danger in creating anxious crowd situations if an entire bank breaks down. They'll be able to shift to one that works, but as I believe I mentioned, the cross-passages at track level are relatively narrow.

There's also this issue - if there is a breakdown of either of the "inner" banks, exiting passengers will split their escape route between two options whereas if either the northernmost or southernmost bank breaks down, all passengers will head in by one.

i know that, but diblaz brought it back from the dead and anyway interborough is more important, as are several other projects like 2nd ave, so its down the list of cap projects.

i know a guy? wait wat? wat kind of cryptic response is that?

are you saying you got a private tour? or was this an organized group tour anyone can try to join?

i mean if you cant say because someone will get in trouble fine, but otherwise come on — some of us would like to try to get in on that if its a regular thing.

Yeah I imagine that you could call it a "private" tour. He told me to hit him up whenever I was in NYC so I emailed him a few weeks ago and we made it happen. I brought one of my friends from high school who lives in NYC. Unfortunately his kids weren't able to go as they aren't allowing anyone under age 18 to tour.





No I don't think it's a good idea to post his contact information here as I'd worry that a bunch of you would hit him up and start badgering him.

^ lol no one is asking for that kind of info, just wondering how you did this.

so ok if i got this right it sounds like a friend gave you a private tour -- it wasnt like a regular tour or political or contractor tour of the sites.

oh well -- cool you got in there.

MTA taps architects for Hochul’s $7 billion Penn Station renovation

By Kevin Duggan
Posted on September 21, 2022


The Metropolitan Transportation Authority has picked a group of architecture and engineering companies to design Governor Kathy Hochul’s $7 billion Penn Station renovation.

The MTA Board on Wednesday voted to approve hiring WSP, FXCollaborative, and British firm John McAslan and Partners for the job at a base contract of $58 million.

The latter firm is behind the overhaul of the King’s Cross Station in London, which would be a promising model for what New York is trying to do with the dark and cavernous Penn Station, said MTA Chairperson and CEO Janno Lieber at the agency’s Sept. 21 board meeting.


more:
https://www.amny.com/transit/mta-pen...design-hochul/

news about speeding up sir and delays on the kawasaki r211 replacements:



MTA looking for ways to speed up Staten Island Railway

Published: Sep. 21, 2022, 4:13 p.m.


more:
https://www.silive.com/news/2022/09/...d-railway.html

Just because it was in planning for 100 years, doesn't mean it should be a top priority.
Even assuming you decided to extend subway in that area of Brooklyn, I think extending the Nostrand Ave line from Brooklyn college to Kings Plaza along Flatbush ave would be more of a priority considering it would probably cost at least only half as much as the Utica line extension AND you can build out a facility at Kings Plaza for the 2/5 trains to have proper turn arounds, increasing frequency of service on the whole line.

^ Conceptual alignment for a Nostrand extension many years ago changed from a turn down Flatbush to Ave U (Kings Plaza) to extending it along Nostrand to Ave W. The current Flatbush terminal actually extends into the Nostrand/Flatbush intersection with a short tail track tunnel almost to the Bay Ridge cut so a veering off along Flatbush would likely require a complete reconstruction of the current station. Of course having both a Nostrand Ave extension AND a leg down Flatbush to Kings Plaza would be nice. One for 2 trains and one for 5 (or 3 depending on future service configurations).

These Kawasaki R211 delays are bonkers.

On a side note did anyone read that absurd story about south shore Staten Islanders complaining about these radio poles? They talk about them like they are highrise buildings. People are so stupid.

yep — the news is mta backed down a bit with shorter posts — although nobody knows why they insist on that system instead of what lirr and mnrr use, which doesn’t require those kinds of poles:

https://www.silive.com/news/2022/09/...hborhoods.html

Staten Island Railroad isn't heavy rail, its just a subway line.

It looks like a subway line at first glance, but it is regulated by the FRA like freight and commuter railroads (and PATH).

I don't know why they don't bring it over to FTA jurisdiction like the subway - I assume there is some backwards logic to keeping it in the weird limbo, but nobody's ever explained why except <historical reasons>.

^ I think it has something to do with the fact that up until relatively recently some freight was moved on the SIR. It also used to have multiple grade crossings. The FRA jurisdiction may also be a lingering leftover from when the line was part of the B&O. In any case it's obviously time to transfer reg authority to FTA.

^ yes afaik that is the reason -- its just legacy.

as for the new sir communication system, obviously somebody sold that to them and they arent backing out of it to use the system the others use and which works just fine. that would be smarter and more consistent. of course mta and sir would say well they won the bid, but sorry to be cynical its probably corruption.

the resident complaints are overblown though. its not like staten doesnt have antenna towers and monopoles:


westerleigh
https://www.silive.com/resizer/HnJ8Z...3829-large.jpg

lol i saw this on eaterny -- and no surprize its via big alice my fav local brewery (along w/carton brewing in nj) -- :cheers:


https://assets.untappd.com/photos/20...8f_640x640.jpg

The possibilities for Shore Line East

CT Mirror
By Jim Cameron
Oct. 2, 2022

https://i0.wp.com/ctmirror-images.s3...g?w=1000&ssl=1
One of the new M8 trains at the Old Saybrook station. (Photo via the CT Mirror)

"Imagine taking a train… a one-seat ride… all the way from Grand Central Terminal to the sandy shores of Mystic. Or connecting there for a quick run up to the casinos.

Such a thing should be possible and may yet happen… if Shore Line East gets its act together.

Shore Line East is the state-owned commuter line from New Haven to Old Saybrook that opened in 1990 in anticipation of heavy traffic delays on I-95 during reconstruction of the Q Bridge. Initially it was only rush-hour service… west to New Haven in the morning and back east in the evening..."

https://ctmirror.org/2022/10/02/the-...horeline-east/

^ i would love better rail service along the route to providence. since we got rid of our wheels as it is we usually ride to stamford and rent a car when we weekend out that way.

lirr gets all the gravy —


Third’ time’s the charm: MTA finishes $2.5 billion LIRR Third Track project

By Kevin Duggan
Posted on October 3, 2022


The MTA finished its $2.5 billion Third Track project to add another set of rails along nearly 10 miles of the Long Island Rail Road, Governor Kathy Hochul announced Monday.

The nearly four-year scheme will free up congestion along the LIRR’s busy Main Line between Floral Park and Hicksville on Long Island and cut delays and disruptions on the railroad, according to officials.

The added capacity also allows for more so-called reverse peak trips east from the city in the morning and west in the evening, once the MTA opens a new LIRR terminal below Grand Central on the East Side of Manhattan at the end of the year.


more:
https://www.amny.com/transit/mta-fin...r-third-track/

^ Modest real estate acquisition dialed way back from initial planned scope... Rebuilt stations/platforms... Replaced bridges... Upgraded traction power infrastructure...

That said, I cannot be the only one that thinks 250 million + per mile seems extraordinarily high for an above ground main line expansion/modernization project... Are they including some ESA expenses in there like M9 rolling stock or other things?

$250 million a mile for an at grade, single mainline rail track? That's nuts. Toronto is just finishing up double tracking 9 miles of track on one of it's commuter rail lines, including basically three new stations with all new platforms, access tunnels, parking lot reconfigurations, etc. for $188 million USD, or about $21 million a mile.

I mean I know NYC is expensive to build in, but holy moly!

https://www.infrastructureontario.ca...ille-Corridor/

via the article:

The project came in $100 million below the original $2.6 billion budget, which Lieber attributed in part to combining the design and construction work under one contract, also known as design-build.

“This project is being delivered on time and $100 million under budget, thanks to design-build contracting and many other new and innovative project management strategies,” he said in a statement.

:haha:

I would imagine a design-build contract might "save" I don't know 10-15-20 million, but $100,000,000? Has anyone ever heard of 100 million spent on design/engineering services?

waaat? yo!


https://youtube.com/shorts/HYCZ-EGTbFc?feature=share

Those are 10 foot leaps on either side of the unused center platform at 59/Columbus Crcl. Nothing to sneeze at but a superhuman this does not make. Also seems like some guerilla promo for something.

MTA faces $4.6 billion budget gap in just 4 years: state comptroller

By Stephen Nessen
Published Oct 6, 2022 at 3:47 p.m


The MTA’s internal projections forecasting a $2.5 billion deficit in 2025 may actually underestimate the agency's dire financial future, according to a new analysis by the state comptroller.

With ridership levels still far below pre-pandemic levels and inflation on the rise, the MTA could have an operating deficit of $4.6 billion by 2026 unless the agency finds a new way to bring in money, state Comptroller Thomas DiNapoli wrote.


more:
https://gothamist.com/news/mta-faces...te-comptroller

https://cms.prod.nypr.digital/images...jpegquality-60

interesting —-



Car, air traffic in NYC almost at pre-pandemic levels, but transit continues to lag: report

By Ben Brachfeld
Posted on October 12, 2022


Transit ridership in the Big Apple continues to languish at around 60% of pre-pandemic levels, even as car and air travel have rebounded almost completely to Before Times rates, according to a new report from City Comptroller Brad Lander.


more:
https://www.amny.com/transit/car-air...to-lag-report/

somebody bought maybe the last available vintage redbird subway car —


https://www.amny.com/transit/redbird...-for-new-home/

One of the most frustrating things with any transit agency is their reluctance to offer for sale retired railcars to the public. Even if they couldn't sell them all to people to convert to cabins, offices, interesting architectural additions like those tube cars in London on top of the building, I would imagine they would make a lot more money than just signing some scrap contract or dumping them in the ocean for reefs. Not only that the Redbirds worked as artificial reefs because they're carbon steel. They found out the stainless steel cars don't work so well. It's extremely unfortunate they didn't offer any R-32 cars, an extremely well designed and iconic design, for sale instead seeing nearly the entire fleet hauled to Ohio to be shredded. What a shame. On a side note i always thought it would be really cool to have a retired and restored B division subway car(s) for a seating area flush with the floor inside a new JFK terminal.

they want rail not a queensway highline park:



Rockaway pols, advocates call for rail ‘link’ instead of mayor’s proposed QueensWay park

By Ben Brachfeld
Posted on October 10, 2022


Residents of the Rockaway peninsula are incensed at the Adams administration’s decision to fund a linear park along a long-disused rail spur in Queens, and say the right-of-way should be used as a new subway connection for some of the city’s most aggrieved straphangers.


more:
https://www.amny.com/transit/rockawa...ueensway-park/

https://www.amny.com/wp-content/uplo...-1200x1121.png

Construction of the subway junction beneath Queens Blvd, plus a short subway section to the abandoned ROW, appears to be the main expense. The MTA probably estimated the replacement of every single existing overpass and abutment as a way of inflating the cost.

I've been hesitant to even talk about this Queenslink/Queensway issue since I think Adams' announcement a few weeks ago was mostly just pandering and I'd be amazed if anything resembling a linear park materializes anytime soon...

But needless to say I'm for utilizing the ROW for rail transit and against squandering it on a stupid novelty bike bath that will be extremely difficult to co-utilize with any other use like transit and next to impossible to convert back to transit once it's a park. I'm not saying it should necessarily be subway, as some sort of rapid regional in the same form and vain as IBX as part of a larger system that I enjoy ruminating over is just as appealing to me. We do know that the IND built in a provision for a branch down the Rockaway Branch right after the 63/Rego Park station so they thought about it then and a Queens Blvd link is just as tempting as an LIRR mainline one. I am a bit confused by the advocates graphic there though. I'm unsure were the capacity would come from the allow a Sixth Av service (currently the M, hopefully someday the H) to use QB to the branch off but also returning G local service to 71 Av. That would be five services west of Rego Park, and I'm not sure how that would be done as it breaks the two services per track max capacity standard, unless the Broadway service becomes rush hour only or something with the G extended to 71 Av at all other times.

It would be pretty much insane to squander an intact transit ROW in a dense, congested, transit-starved, immigrant-rich corridor. Of course, never underestimate the stupidity of politicians.

It seems "shovel-ready", in the sense that its alignment is obvious and non-controversial. What ought to be controversial is how that inexplicably high construction cost estimate was arrived at.

I live next to the proposed Queenslink, and frankly the IBX is the far far more important project. The area around Queensway is not a transit desert in the same way Eastern Queens or SI is as there is the QB Line, (J) train and (A) train all intersecting it. The QB Line is already oversaturated and more and more commuters need to go to places other than Manhattan. I think the IBX needs to get built pronto then and only then should the idea of reactivating the RRB branch even be considered. For the cost of running a subway down the branch we could:

Run light rail down Woodhaven Blvd from Queens Center Mall to the Rockaways.

Run Light Rail lines out along The LIE, Union Tpke, Merrick Blvd, Hillside Ave, Lefferts Blvd, etc connecting to the subway.

Build a LIRR station at 63rd Drive Rego Park.

^ yeah, there is no question the ibx is top priority, especially over this.

just maintain it a bit and otherwise leave the queensway alone, like the highline was for so many years, until the city gets a pot of gold to reuse it as transit again.

its built to last and its not hurting anything.

making it a park would be a huge investment and one that people would not want to go back on in the future to turn it into rail vs the current fallow row as it is.

i mean, come on, no one is going to say hey lets turn the current manhattan highline park investment back into rail transit.

once its a park thats it for it.

what's a few bil for 640 new R211s? :shrug:



MTA considering $1.78 billion additional spending to buy hundreds of brand-new subway cars

By Ben Brachfeld
Posted on October 23, 2022


The shiny new carriages could be expected for delivery to New York between February 2025 and December 2026, per MTA procurement documents, and would replace the 1970s-era R46 cars on the A and C lines.


more:
https://www.amny.com/transit/mta-spe...w-subway-cars/

https://www.amny.com/wp-content/uplo...536x1024-1.jpg
The MTA board will vote this week whether to expand its order for brand-new R211 subway cars by $1.78 billion. File Photo by Kevin Duggan

hopefully this will stop the fare evasion which is freakkn totally out of control — but they need to flood busses too:


Fare evasion summonses have nearly doubled as cops flood subway system

By Ben Brachfeld
Posted on October 31, 2022

more:
https://www.amny.com/police-fire/far...-flood-subway/

New York must be one of the few world cities building new rolling stock that lacks open gangways as standard.

MTA suffers from Butitsthewaywevealwaysdoneitosis. This we know. Painfully. Though I do suspect the R211 contract will be amended to include a larger percentage of open gangway cars but yes it should have been 100% open gangway for the entire order. This agency removes seats at the ends of cars to increase capacity, it's nuts to me they would give away the extra capacity with open gangway by resisting their adoption.