I thought the rider complaints mainly revolved around there being less seating overall.

If they were going to cut aisle-facing seating, it seems they would have cut it on the latest hybrid buses, too, which have mostly aisle-facing seating.

The low-floor buses have limitations about where transverse seating can be installed that the railcars do not.

Also, I have my doubts that numbered cars would have been delivered to the property with anything other than the front ends they expect to actually use for the full order. What's the source for the speculation that a redesigned front end will be on the other cars?

In the category of "pie-in-the-sky" ...

Has anyone ever proposed moving the Red Line west to share the ROW with the SouthWest Service, especially north of 40th when the Green Line jags east? It seems like it would put it within walking distance of a lot more ridership. It doesn't seem like it would be especially hard to do it - jog it west over the I-55 ramps and then jog it back east at 51st where the tracks are only a block away.

It would slightly lengthen south side commutes, although you could also just add express service for the far south side using the existing Dan Ryan tracks for non-stop service from 55th to Chinatown (granted, that would only skip two stops. Long-term, if you added service along the SouthWest Service tracks and built the Clinton Street subway, you could run State Street trains to Bridgeport, and Clinton Street trains through Dan Ryan express (or vice versa).

It could be a plus for Bridgeport, although even though Bridgeport is less insular than they used to be, they may still have resistence to the idea because of the "bad element" argument.

Indeed, they have the potential to be some very nice pedestrian spaces.

True, but it does still feel like a waste to just fill them up with concrete. Would it be totally unfeasible someday to refurbish/expand the tunnels and make them usable as a subway?

^The scale is all wrong for a train sized subway. Though I don't understand why they cant be used to route HVAC lines, COMM lines, Fiber Optics, etc...

They are being used throughout the Loop to do just that. The problem is that the tunnels that run under the expressway pose a real threat to the integrity of the roadway and the ones running under the river pose a threat to the whole system. Some of them need to be filled in to keep the entire system safe or to protect structures above them (i.e. 1992).

Well thats understandable I suppose.

Metra is doing a second study to extend commuter rail all the way to La Salle County.



http://mywebtimes.com/archives/ottaw...php?id=389799#

Chugging Along: Commuter rail still a possibility
10/16/2009,

Dan Churney

TOPIC:The possibility of a high-speed commuter rail line connecting several towns in La Salle County has been on the table for several years. However, a second study of the proposal is soon to begin.



WHAT HAPPENED?

More than six years ago, the Illinois Valley Commuter Rail Steering Committee proposed a commuter rail service, linking the Metra station in Joliet with La Salle-Peru, with stops at cities along the way, including Seneca, Marseilles, Ottawa and Utica. From Joliet, connections with Chicago can be made; from La Salle-Peru, the line would branch off into lines to the Quad Cities and Quincy. The committee, which is still in place, was made up of officials from communities along the proposed route. An initial study done in 2003 found the idea viable on its face. Ottawa officials have been in the lead for the project.

Three, three-car trains would travel in the morning and evening peak periods, between 90 and 110 mph on the 60-mile long Joliet-La Salle leg. The service would make use of existing tracks, but there would need to be some track and bridge upgrades, as well as construction of sidings. The likely spot for a station in Ottawa would be the former Rock Island depot in the 100 block of East Marquette Street, which CSX Transportation uses for storage. In Marseilles, the old Rock Island depot could be used; in Seneca, Utica and La Salle-Peru, new stations would be built.

WHY DOES IT MATTER?

Officials involved with the project have said the rail line likely would bring jobs to La Salle County, as well as encourage and facilitate travel between the county and the Chicago area. It also would allow travelers to bypass traffic congestion and at the same time reduce traffic congestion, which in turn would reduce harmful engine emissions. Also, travel by rail is largely impervious to bad weather.

The Joliet to La Salle line is one strand of a spider web of commuter lines proposed for the Midwest, which would put 25 million residents of the region within a three-hour train trip of Chicago. Last week, Gov. Pat Quinn said he considers high-speed rail service to be the most important transportation project since construction of the interstate road system in the 1950s and 1960s. The only high-speed rail in place in the United States links Washington, D.C. with New York and parts of New England.

WHAT'S NEXT?

Another study.

Ottawa City Planner Tami Huftel said the next, more detailed study is to begin shortly and last about one year. This study, paid for with $400,000 in federal tax money, will determine if there would be enough passengers along the proposed route. The study also will look at other modes of transportation available, such as bus service. The first study, completed in 2003, directed the next study to look more thoroughly at "red flags" uncovered in the first study, such as scheduling conflicts between the commuter trains and railroads using the same lines, principally CSX Transportation.

Further studies would follow, pending government money to pay for them. Key is obtaining support of local representatives in Washington, D.C., who in turn would work to earmark money for such studies. Huftel said U.S. Rep. Debbie Halvorson, D-Crete, and U.S. Sen. Richard Durbin, D-Ill., have been contacted for help in this regard.

If everything proceeds according to plan, the rail service would not operate for at least 10 years, Huftel pointed out.

IF YOU CARE:

Visit the Chicago-based Midwest High Speed Rail Association's Web site, www.midwesthsr.org.

^ Pie in the sky planning, which is fine.

But I'd rather see the Clinton subway get built.

Get dense Chicago neighborhoods better rail access to high-flying west loop jobs, I say..

http://www.nwherald.com/articles/200...sqw/index.xml#

Metra calls for increase in fares

By DAVID FITZGERALD - dfitzgerald@nwherald.com

CHICAGO – Come February, occasional Metra riders might be dipping their hands a little deeper into their change jars under a fare increase proposed Friday.

One-way rides would go up about 6 percent under the plan, increasing the ticket price by anywhere from 10 cents to 45 cents depending on the length of the trip. The price of a weekend pass also would rise, from $5 to $7.

The fare hikes, however, will not have an impact on the prices for 10-ride tickets and monthly passes.

“Most riders use our monthly and 10-ride passes,” spokesman Michael Gillis said. “So we don’t think it will impact our riders.”

Gillis said the fare changes were made to address budget shortfalls while encouraging people to start using the passes, which offer a discount over the one-way fares. Last month, Metra unveiled a $3.9 million Web site that allows riders to buy 10-ride and monthly passes online using a credit or debit card.

The fare increases are part of the agency’s $613 million operating budget released Friday. The budget does not include any service reductions but does include leaving about 150 positions unfilled, freezing management salaries, and increasing the health insurance premiums for nonunion employees.

“Any fare adjustment is difficult, particularly in today’s economy, but we believe we are taking a responsible, targeted approach that is sensitive to the needs of our passengers,” Metra Chairman Carole R. Doris said in a news release.

The Metra proposal also would raise from $2 to $5 the penalty for tickets bought on board trains for when passengers board at stations where tickets can be bought at a booth before boarding.

...

The fare increases must be approved by the Regional Transit Authority before they can take effect.

^ Eh, I'm cool with the LaSalle County line. It's a good medium-distance service. With only 3 trains a day, I doubt it will do much to encourage sprawl - and it goes far, far beyond the perimeter of Chicago sprawl anyway. Any growth it DOES encourage would be the renovation and revitalization of those historic towns, which have great old Victorian neighborhoods and sizable but blighted downtowns. European and Asian countries have had medium-distance trains for years, and the Illinois Valley towns were developed around just such a limited train service back when the Rock Island offered it.

The improvements would be made in conjunction with the improvements for Amtrak service (different pool of money than CTA or Metra improvements), so there's not much extra construction cost for transit funding sources to bear beside the 3 new and 2 renovated stations - offhand, probably about $100 million.

Hopefully, this would be branded as something different than standard Rock Island service; then the trains could run express between Joliet and LaSalle Street, either on Rock Island or SouthWest Service tracks.

^Any Illinois Valley train proposal needs to connect Peoria and Chicago.

I've never heard that proposed, but it is intriguing. There are a lot of possibilities with that. You could continue along that alignment to the Rock Island stops in Beverly Morgan Park to provide better service. I would have to have some sort of transfer stops with the red if it were to run such a distance parallel to the red line tracks, which would be difficult given the rail yards that already dice up that section of the city. The problem would most likely be building such a long unused subway south of congress to 55.

I've been slowly compiling a pie in the sky 2050+ CTA map, and hadn't even thought of that as an option.

This is pretty neat. Anyone have a similar copy of the PD application for Trump? Supposedly they designed that to accommodate the transitway and/or a station as well.

I guess by "curbed busway" they mean a guided busway. If not, then this will be painfully slow, like the tunnel segment of Boston's silver line. Also, I wonder how those grade crossings will work for buses. Does such a system exist anywhere?

In any case, nice find.

The grade crossings would probably have gates like any other grade crossing, although they would have to have a different design to suit their underground location (15+ feet of gate sticking up in the air isn't practical...) If not gates, then at least flashing lights.

With a stop every 1000 feet, I don't think buses moving at 25 mph will seem painfully slow. And unlike a rail line, the "grade crossing protection" for such a low-speed busway can be this thing called a traffic signal.

Even lightrail doesn't require gate crossings. And even if they wanted to put gates, anyone who'se used parking garages downtown has seen the crossing barriers that fold when they're in upright positions. That's the least of the issues.

Once construction has ceased along Carol, which should be sometime next year, do you think the City will get it into a working state for buses, at least as a test? As an interim test, they could even just use the regular Kinzie bridge and then join Carol under the Mart instead of reviving the rail bridge. Once the buildings being constructed are done, there will really be no good reason not to immediately proceed with constructing the transitway. The basics shouldn't cost much money to run buses there and build a few platforms. If it became popular (which I think it would) they could spend the extra money on timings and fare control and restoring the unused Kinzie Rail Bridge. And, maybe someday, they could install rails and run modern trams all the way to Navy Pier.

Pie-in-the-sky ideas would be to re-open the Lasalle Street tunnel and utilize that with some routes to the central Loop and/or the Lasalle Street Station north of the transitway.

But seriously, by next summer they city should really push to start some express service to Navy Pier from the West Loop commuter stations using Carol Street

Due to the confined nature of the underground spaces along Carroll Avenue, I don't think you could get away without some sort of gate or signal at the grade crossings. There's gonna be a forest of columns and dumpsters and such, so visibility will be low. A traffic signal with priority technology would work. Really, though, gates would be nicer just to reinforce the notion that the busway is not a regular roadway, and that its vehicles get priority at all times.

Given the city's $500 million operating deficit, I wouldn't mind if the city holds off on putting money into these improvements for a few years or until it comes via earmark (any formula-based capital improvement funds are probably best spent on other transit and road needs anyhow).

Besides, in the meantime, the 120 and 121 operate via Lower Wacker and connect Navy Pier and the Metra stations via a 15-18 minute trip.... more like 10-12 minutes to Michigan/Hubbard where much of the employment-related traffic is concentrated anyhow. No doubt the Carroll route offers certain benefits (serving north of the river, of course) but, a low-budget Carroll option would also would have to contend with very busy grade crossings at Canal and Clinton.

A decent signal priority and bus-only-lane system to bypass the few bottlenecks would place the 120/121 at pretty comparable travel times, so the Carroll proposal can only be justified if part of a much broader strategic vision of some sort.

Those only run weekdays at rush hour, and they're not found on any CTA maps as of September and the current online one(s). 125 is there, though, so the rush-hour only excuse can't be used for the 120 and 121 if it's not used for the 125.

what's that?

A streetcar tunnel under the river. There are three, all unused: La Salle, Washington, and Van Buren.

Those tunnels are interesting. Seems a waste to not use them for something. Usually when somebody mentions reuisng them on here, it's in the context of a pedway extension.

If demand for high service levels (across multiple routes serving similar O/D pairings via slightly different routings) only exists in rush hour, I think it speaks volumes to the near-term viability of a quasi-fixed-guideway service along Carroll.

Very loosely speaking, the West Loop<-> Navy Pier/Mag Mile routes include the 120, 121, 124, 125, and 157, of which only the 124 and 157 operate during off-peak hours and only the 124 operates on weekends.

But I suppose my broader point is that, given that Lower Wacker exists as a partially-grade separated higher-speed thoroughfare with near-zero pedestrian conflicts, how would the capital costs for making it a more efficient busway compare to the capital costs to make Carroll Ave operable, and are the latter costs worth it for the benefit?

The 120-series buses are not shown on the main CTA map because of the complications of showing lines on two different levels. Instead, they have their own individual route maps in the lower right corner of the folded sheet. We used to laughingly call them the cognoscenti routes. If you don't already know about them, it's hard to find out.

As for the LaSalle Street tunnel, the Lake Street subway cut through the south approach.

DESTROY THE SUBWAY! Oh ... wait ...

^ Isn't part of the reason for the lack of "demand" due to the fact that for many years the city has been running a FREE trolley between the west loop stations and Navy Pier?

Plus, wouldn't the existence of such a service generate more demand that may not have existed before? You're clearly the expert, but at some point it just seems to make sense that a faster way to get between Mag Mile/E Streeterville and the West Loop other than routine bus service would make sense.

The difference is that no one boards between Union Station and Lower Michigan, whereas a Caroll Street route would generate additional demand from stops along the way, while using the true grade separation to keep things moving.

I still think an underground route directly through the Loop would be better, but that would also cost 10 times as much.

^^ That's the idea of the Monroe Transitway... a low-level bus subway in the heart of the Loop.

It's interesting to compare the current plan of the 3 transitways with the original plan for the Central Area Circulator. Apparently, old ideas never die, but specific routings change. Blue is the current plan, pink is the former one.

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/5862/circulator.jpg

Well, the original plan for the Circulator was to use Carroll. Only near the end of the process did they decide it was geometrically problematic and abandon it for Kinzie.

Edit

Does anyone know where I can find KML files for Google Earth that overlays the CTA, Metra and South Shore rail lines and stations? I haven't found anything suitable and figured someone here probably has seen one. . .

. . .

I thought it already did that if you enabled transportation.

Google Earth already has this on the transportation layers under Places of Interest<Transportation<Rail (or Subway for CTA). Stations and lines have "fade-out" distances, zoom levels at which they disappear. This is to avoid visual clutter. Are you seeking something that eliminates this, so you can see the entire network and all stations in one view?

From CDOT:

"We anticipate issuing a Request for Proposals for a Carroll Avenue Transitway Alternatives Analysis by year end. This study is required by the Federal Transit Administration (FTA) for the project to be eligible for federal capital funding."

Apparently, the city is going to go for a New Starts/Small Starts funding source. Hopefully after the Circulator debacle, Daley has learned enough to use TIF funds for the local match instead of relying on the state.

The Alternatives Analysis will more than likely also examine routes on Lower Wacker and Kinzie. How fast the study progresses is entirely dependent on whether this thing has political backing - see the Circle Line, where "Alternatives Analysis" has gone on for years.

Mr. Downtown - the situation in the 90s on Carroll was different than today. Trump's buyout of the Sun-Times site has removed all freight traffic from UP's Carroll Avenue line. That leaves only corridor property owners and their loading docks to contend with. The city has moved to reserve right-of-way at K Station, 300 N. LaSalle, 353 N. Clark, and Trump, which should put a Carroll Avenue routing into the realm of financial feasibility, and the dense development (not there in the 90s) should ensure a good flow of users onto such a line.

Does anyone else remember the Ogden-Navy Pier Transitway Alternatives Analysis a few years ago? :jester:

http://www.transitchicago.com/news/d...ArticleId=1080

This town cracks me up. At least with Airport Express (Loop Transportation Center, completed 1985) and the Orange Line extension (EIS completed mid-1980s), a couple decades had passed ...

^^ A recent article claimed that intense downtown development would change the results of the original Alternatives Analysis. IIRC, ridership projections in the original survey were fairly lackluster. I guess CDOT is hoping to use the new towers along the corridor as an excuse to boost ridership projections and, by extension, the cost-effectiveness rating.

Also, I'm pretty sure the Ogden part of the survey is no longer needed, so a new analysis is required of just the Carroll/Clinton portion. I mean, the original AA extended all the way to North Riverside, for chrissake... Additional transit in the rough area of the Ogden corridor was provided when Pink Line service was started. I honestly have no idea why an Ogden light-rail line was ever even in consideration... :koko: Must have been the pet project of some politician.

Yes, the Ogden Streetcar was the brainchild of Congressman William Lipinski, whose father was a CSL motorman. Initially I was naturally dismissive, but came to think it might be worth further study. Ogden is a wide street with plenty of room for actual light rail, and is an important commercial corridor that needs attention and revival.

Anyone here know where I could find figures for the vertical clearances under the Loop "L" structure?

Yes. . . basically something that let's me see an overview from the entire Chicagoland area. . . haven't had any luck finding one. . .

. . .

Thanks!

I asked because I've always wondered if double-decker buses could be used for any useful routes. Looks like none of the Lake Street viaducts have sufficient clearance for it, and there are no west-bound streets on Wabash with sufficient clearance. So, you could do routes that used them, but they might require some non-intuitive routing once they got to the Loop. Still, it could be done.

I based these on the Enviro500 (14 feet high), which seems to be one of the most widely used double-decker buses in the world, optionally comes in a hybrid model, claims to increase ridership (presumably because of the novelty and good views factor), and depending on the exact configuration can carry almost 100 people (Seattle runs them with 73 seats and room for 20 standing passengers on the lower level) and with the hybrid model gets somewhere between 7 and 8.4 mpg.

According to ChicagoBus.com, the DE60LF (the new hybrid articulated buses), have 54 seats and the NABI 60-LFW articulated (the not-so-old ones that were pulled due to structural defects) had 61 seats.

The Loop L and the parts on structure are not much of a limitation, but a lot of the Metra Electric and the UP-North viaducts are pretty low, as is the North Side L north of Wilson. However, I think CTA will not show much interest in vehicles they have to route so carefully, that can't be interlined or even pull in to the garage except on very specific routes. Chicago has more than a thousand overpasses with clearance of less than 14 feet.

Chicago Motor Coach, of course, ran double-deckers along Lake Shore Drive and west on Addison.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3344/...a6c57df325.jpg
New York Public Library

Sorry I cursed your city!

Apparently I wasn't dreaming when I thought that Apple had agreed to help refurbish CTA's North/Clybourn Station... the latest City Council meeting contained details of an agreement between Apple and the city. Basically, Apple's leasing the bus turnaround from the city and turning it into an extension of their plaza. In exchange, Apple will spend roughly $4 million on a station renovation. Apple is using their own architects (Bohlin Cywinski Jackson, IIRC) for much of the renovations. If everything goes according to plan, construction will begin this December and wrap up by the end of March.

Note - I couldn't find a picture, so I had to write a thousand words instead....

The stationhouse will get a major rehabilitation. I couldn't find any drawings, but it sounds like the entire exterior will be replaced, including all brick, concrete, coping, doors, and windows. The new exterior will be similar to the old, but more in line with Apple's aesthetic (stainless steel used for windows, doors, etc). All exterior lighting and signage will be removed in favor of Apple-designed replacements. The roof will be replaced. Sidewalks and curbs will be replaced and landscaped, with plentiful bike parking and trees in grates.

On the inside, selected walls will be demolished, opening up the floorplan and connecting with the corner retail space. The remaining portions of Art Moderne tile will be retained and rehabbed. All floors, lighting, turnstiles, and other fittings will be replaced. The ceiling will be replaced with aluminum. At platform level, new benches and light boxes will be added, and a thorough scraping/scrubbing/cleaning will be conducted, as well as a signage replacement.

As part of the deal, Apple gets rights of first refusal for both station naming and interior advertising, as well as the right to conduct promotions on station property. Hopefully Bacci Pizza will get kicked out of that corner space, too, but even if they're not, the station will be beautiful.

As an aside, I think it would AMAZING if Apple can accomplish all this for only $4 million.

They should do the same with some of the subway stations. I was in San Francisco about 20 years ago and one of the BART stations was connected to the basement of a Woolworths. It was neat to be able to get off a train and go right into a store without exiting to the street level first. Too bad there aren't more stations like that.

^^ We already have that arrangement. The State Street Subway was built through what was perhaps the world's greatest concentration of department stores. Marshall Field's and Carson's both had direct subway access.

I don't think there will be an underground connection between the station and the Apple Store - there's really no need when you can just build a beautiful landscaped plaza on the surface.

That landscaped plaza might be nice in the Spring, Summer and Fall, but what about the dead of winter when the wind chill factor is 70 below zero (or worse)? I'll bet their customers would appreciate a direct link to the subway.

Too bad Chicago's Pedway isn't more like the PATH in Toronto. You can go just about anywhere you want downtown without having to go outside.

It also has the potential to highlight the CTA's own inadequacies and getting people to ponder why the CTA can't do as well renovating while spending bundles more.

Yeah, get Apple to rehab the whole system at that price!

My guess is Apple is contributing $4 million, which would in turn match/leverage some public funds via some program like CMAQ, or a nearby TIF district. CMAQ has typically provided funds for CDOT's subway station renovations.