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-   -   American Cities and Climate Change: When is Enough, Enough? (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=240370)

pj3000 Sep 23, 2019 7:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by accord1999 (Post 8695863)
In large parts of the world, death rates are higher in cool and cold weather.




Non sequitur

accord1999 Sep 23, 2019 7:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj3000 (Post 8695867)
Non sequitur

Theoretical deaths caused by warming environment will be offset by theoretical lives saved by warming environment.

Gantz Sep 23, 2019 7:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj3000 (Post 8695865)
Yeah, and that does not correlate with what most humans feel comfortable living in, within the certain latitudes you suggest. It's not like "oohh, it's a little chilly for me. We need to get that global average temp up to at least 65".

That's not how it works.

Just look where the most humans live. The majority of humans live within the band I mentioned. What is even more interesting is that half of all human population actually lives in a narrow band 24 degrees from the Equator.
As the global temperature rises, much more areas will be opened up for *comfortable* human habitation.

pj3000 Sep 23, 2019 7:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gantz (Post 8695862)
The reason why some tropical diseases do not get figured out is because there is no money in it. If any diseases start affecting first world countries in any big numbers, they will get figured out.

Oh great! Vaccine development is so easy (and quick) when there's enough money involved! Look at how wonderful we do with the flu every year! :haha:

SIGSEGV Sep 23, 2019 7:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gantz (Post 8695874)
Just look where the most humans live. The majority of humans live within the band I mentioned. What is even more interesting is that half of all human population actually lives in a narrow band 24 degrees from the Equator.
As the global temperature rises, much more areas will be opened up for *comfortable* human habitation.

You do realize that 30 degrees from the equator encompasses half of the solid angle of a sphere?

pj3000 Sep 23, 2019 7:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gantz (Post 8695874)
Just look where the most humans live. The majority of humans live within the band I mentioned. What is even more interesting is that half of all human population actually lives in a narrow band 24 degrees from the Equator.
As the global temperature rises, much more areas will be opened up for *comfortable* human habitation.

We don't know if that's how it would work with an overall warming planet. Based on what's already occurring, it's not proportional increase across the globe. It's more likely significant increases at the poles and equator.

RavioliAficionado Sep 23, 2019 8:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj3000 (Post 8695878)
Oh great! Vaccine development is so easy (and quick) when there's enough money involved! Look at how wonderful we do with the flu every year! :haha:

This statement shows a fundamental lack of understanding regarding basic biology. There are a huge number of different strains of the Influenza virus and RNA viruses like influenza mutate rapidly. This means it's not possible to have a single vaccine the way it is for DNA viruses like say small pox.

Gantz Sep 23, 2019 8:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj3000 (Post 8695878)
Oh great! Vaccine development is so easy (and quick) when there's enough money involved! Look at how wonderful we do with the flu every year! :haha:

Doesn't have to be quick. If it takes decades, that's quick enough.

pj3000 Sep 23, 2019 8:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RavioliAficionado (Post 8695900)
This statement shows a fundamental lack of understanding regarding basic biology. There are a huge number of different strains of the Influenza virus and RNA viruses like influenza mutate rapidly. This means it's not possible to have a single vaccine the way it is for DNA viruses like say small pox.

Exactly my point.

And there's tons of money for R&D of flu viruses every single year.

pj3000 Sep 23, 2019 8:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gantz (Post 8695904)
Doesn't have to be quick. If it takes decades, that's quick enough.

Social Darwinism then! Let the weak(er) perish! :cheers:

Gantz Sep 23, 2019 8:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV (Post 8695879)
You do realize that 30 degrees from the equator encompasses half of the solid angle of a sphere?

Again, my claim is that there is huge amount of surface area that is too cold for human habitation. I realize it is not the majority of the surface, but it is enough to offset the area lost due to rising sea levels elsewhere.

Gantz Sep 23, 2019 8:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj3000 (Post 8695907)
Social Darwinism then! Let the weak(er) perish! :cheers:

Nobody has to perish. Global climate change and animal/insect migration is a relatively slow process on the order of decades. Also, there will still be plenty of areas cold enough where these tropical diseases wouldn't matter. Maybe not Mississippi or Florida, but Chicago and Ontario will be just balmy.

iheartthed Sep 23, 2019 8:15 PM

Lol, I am amused by the optimism. We still don't have a vaccine for the plague, which killed half of Europe over 600 years ago.

Gantz Sep 23, 2019 8:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iheartthed (Post 8695920)
Lol, I am amused by the optimism. We still don't have a vaccine for the plague, which killed half of Europe over 600 years ago.

Plague can be treated with antibiotics. It is irrelevant to climate change anyway. The hysteria is that places like Chicago, which will have Washington DC weather, will all of the sudden have malaria and Chagas or whatever. People in Washington DC are not having mass pandemic in 2019. We will be fine. It is not the end of the world.

pj3000 Sep 23, 2019 8:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gantz (Post 8695917)
Nobody has to perish. Global climate change and animal/insect migration is a relatively slow process on the order of decades.

I get what you're saying, but we're not seeing insect migration, in the case of emerging viruses in certain areas, to be very slow right now. The Mediterranean as an example. And outbreaks are not a slow process at all unfortunately. I'm not an alarmist by any means, however the strong potential for infectious disease aspect of a warming planet is something that is often not considered.

iheartthed Sep 23, 2019 8:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gantz (Post 8695930)
Plague can be treated with antibiotics. It is irrelevant to climate change anyway. The hysteria is that places like Chicago, which will have Washington DC weather, will all of the sudden have malaria and Chagas or whatever. People in Washington DC are not having mass pandemic in 2019. We will be fine.

Quote:

Over the weekend, health officials in several states reported more cases and deaths linked to the Eastern Equine Encephalitis (EEE) virus. The number of cases, while still small, is set to make 2019 the worst recorded year for EEE in recent history—and it may be a sign of things to come in an ever-warming climate.

In Massachusetts, health officials this past Friday reported the death of a man in his 70s from EEE, the second death and also the 10th human case of EEE seen in the state this year. That same day, officials from Michigan reported that an eighth human case of EEE was spotted within their borders; the state has also seen three deaths linked to EEE. New Jersey officials also reported the discovery of two more cases among residents, adding to another case found in August, and Connecticut reported its first fatality and second case as well.

In total for 2019, there have been over 25 confirmed or suspected cases of EEE reported across six states, along with at least seven deaths. It’s not clear yet whether all of these cases represent the most severe form of the virus—an infection that reaches the brain and nervous system that kills a third of its victims. But typically, according to the Centers for Disease Control, the country sees an average of seven severe EEE cases annually. And this is almost certainly one of the worst years of EEE recorded in decades.
https://gizmodo.com/a-brain-infectin...ead-1838370317

Gantz Sep 23, 2019 8:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj3000 (Post 8695935)
I get what you're saying, but we're not seeing insect migration, in the case of emerging viruses in certain areas, to be very slow right now. The Mediterranean as an example. And outbreaks are not a slow process at all unfortunately. I'm not an alarmist by any means, however the strong potential for infectious disease aspect of a warming planet is something that is often not considered.

I am not disputing there will be no consequences to climate change. People will have to adjust. Heck, perhaps we will be relocating people from the Florida panhandle over the next 30-50 years as that area will slowly get flooded. We also will have to build additional anti-flood infrastructure in certain cities (NYC and Boston for example), which is completely technologically doable, even under the worst projections. But the whole doomsday hysteria that we have 12 years left (or is it 10 years now?) literally reminds me of those end of the world cults. Its just bullsh*t panic and alarmism.
I personally think plastic is a much bigger problem, and will be the next environmental frontier after we transition to renewable energy sources over the next 10-20 years.
Quote:

Originally Posted by iheartthed (Post 8695938)

This virus is so rare that almost no resources are put into research.

pj3000 Sep 23, 2019 8:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gantz (Post 8695942)
I am not disputing there will be no consequences to climate change. People will have to adjust. Heck, perhaps we will be relocating people from the Florida panhandle over the next 30-50 years as that area will slowly get flooded. We also will have to build additional anti-flood infrastructure in certain cities (NYC and Boston for example), which is completely technologically doable, even under the worst projections. But the whole doomsday hysteria that we have 12 years left (or is it 10 years now?) literally reminds me of those end of the world cults.

Yeah, the doomsday stuff is silly. And it distracts from looking at the real issues through a measured lens to determine best paths forward.

iheartthed Sep 23, 2019 8:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gantz (Post 8695942)
This virus is so rare that almost no resources are put into research.

But mosquitos are the single biggest (animal) threat to humans. The more we are in contact with mosquitos, the greater our chances of mortality. This has been true for all of human history.

Gantz Sep 23, 2019 8:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iheartthed (Post 8695950)
But mosquitos are the single biggest (animal) threat to humans. The more we are in contact with mosquitos, the greater our chances of mortality. This has been true for the all of human history.

Well I guess that is the deal breaker for human civilization. We are all doomed. Time to build my climate change bunker and stock up on MREs!


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