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CaliNative May 14, 2021 6:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by riichkay (Post 9279830)
I think we have to consider the possibility that the Muller image is simply misidentified, not in L.A. at all....he took over 2,000 Polaroids, so it could be a cataloging error.  

The green building appears to be of unreinforced masonry construction, I believe that by 1980 or so all such buildings required seismic retrofit, I don't see any evidence of that.

Also, as has been noted the "parallel parking only" signage is curious....I can't recall ever seeing this in the city.

Muller was in Austin TX. in 1979 filming "Honeysuckle Rose", a Willie Nelson vehicle....here's a 1978 photo of downtown Austin, the dark high rise is the Austin National Bank Tower (now known as the Bank of America Center).....


https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...720&fit=bounds

Austin! Now THAT is a curveball, maybe a spitter--the black building does look like the one we've been looking at for how many weeks now? :yes: Do you see the bank building?

ScottyB May 14, 2021 6:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by riichkay (Post 9279830)
I think we have to consider the possibility that the Muller image is simply misidentified, not in L.A. at all....he took over 2,000 Polaroids, so it could be a cataloging error.  

The green building appears to be of unreinforced masonry construction, I believe that by 1980 or so all such buildings required seismic retrofit, I don't see any evidence of that.

Also, as has been noted the "parallel parking only" signage is curious....I can't recall ever seeing this in the city.

Muller was in Austin TX. in 1979 filming "Honeysuckle Rose", a Willie Nelson vehicle....here's a 1978 photo of downtown Austin, the dark high rise is the Austin National Bank Tower (now known as the Bank of America Center).....


https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...720&fit=bounds

Consider it considered- I believe you may be on to something. Nice touch with the billboard :tup:

Noir_Noir May 14, 2021 7:24 AM

Great work riichkay :worship: :tup:


The two mystery(no longer) towers.


https://i.imgur.com/R5Hxcvn.jpg
Google Maps


Both have had makeovers since the mid-1980's.


An Austin postcard from back in the day shows the Chase Tower in it's original golden splendor.

https://i.imgur.com/lkf7ZyT.jpg
austin.towers.net











btw riichkay, for ongoing product feedback purposes, did my uncanny patented reconstruction tools assist you in any way in your findings?


https://i.imgur.com/ydvBF8V.jpg



:D :runaway:

ethereal_reality May 14, 2021 5:15 PM

.
:previous: Dayum!

Fantastic sleuthing RiichKay. .with an assist by Noir Noir. :) -and everyone else!

I wonder how many collectors were mislead by the title, Los Angeles, 1984. (Price: € 2.800)...I'd want my money back.





This reminds me of one of our best NLA discoveries. Does anyone remember this photograph by Garry Wingrand?

Sailor, New York 1950

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...924/AZzG8z.jpg

Our in-house sleuths figured out that the location was incorrect. Instead of New York this is actually Los Angeles!

Here. . .and Here. . .and Here . . .and, finally, Here. (complete with a terrific annotated aerial map by Martin-Pal)






But the location is still listed as New York, 1950. :(

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/8...923/YvNtOK.jpg
artblart

If I remember correctly, we contacted them.




Update:

I just looked it up. Martin Pal contacted the Fraenkel Gallery in San Francisco.


Here's their answer.
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...923/hnCEL7.jpg


We're changin' the world noirisher!
.

Martin Pal May 14, 2021 5:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 9280290)
.

This reminds me of one of our best NLA discoveries. Does anyone remember this [sailor] photograph by Garry Wingrand?

But the location is still listed as New York, 1950. :(

.
_________________________________________________________________

Yes, they said they updated all their databases, but I guess they can't update all the false info on the internet [and elsewhere] that had already been put on there by others from the original tags.

ethereal_reality May 14, 2021 6:00 PM

I appreciate that you contacted them.

Martin Pal May 14, 2021 6:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 9262637)
.
mystery location, Los Angeles
Robby Muller, Polaroid 600 (1984)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...924/0hSV1B.jpg
annetgelink

There is additional information at annetgelink
Good luck, minions....:superwhip
.
_________________________________________________________________

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 9280290)
.

Dayum! Fantastic sleuthing RiichKay. .with an assist by Noir Noir. :)

I wonder how many collectors were mislead by the title, Los Angeles, 1984. (Price: € 2.800)...I'd want my money back.
_________________________________________________________________


Yes! Applause applause to you! Debunking Los Angeles photos in Texas, LOL! This was pretty remarkable.

Just to put a coda on the photo that captured our attention:

This is a c.1970 photo of Austin. The street in the center leading to the statehouse is Congress Ave. The Austin National Bank Tower (now known as the Bank of America Center) would have been (will be) located to the right of Congress Ave. almost exactly center of this photo. That building and the gold Chase Bank Tower were the tallest buildings in Austin at around the time of the photo we were discussing. That means the photograph was probably taken on one of the streets in the lower left quadrant. South of that is a park along the Colorado River and area designated now as Lady Bird Lake.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/c...age-asset.jpeg

Now: (!)

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/c...ge-tx-8266.JPG

And: Yes, there is a Colorado River in Texas. (I wasn't aware of that.) It's not the one we usually think of when we hear Colorado River:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped..._Watershed.png

Of further interest is an article about that "Golden Bank Tower." The author writes about it in ways that are reminiscent of people writing about the Richfield Tower. Though this building is still there, but it's exterior was removed. The glass panes, infused with real gold, weighed three hundred pounds each and were carted away to a landfill, except for a few designers that rescued a few of them.

There's also this interesting 1985 photo from the southern side of the Colorado. It always amazes me that southern Texas occasionally gets snow. (Like we know about this year.)

A view of downtown Austin during a 1985 snowfall, with the golden exterior of the American Bank Plaza building circled in red:

https://austin.towers.net/wp-content...985_snow-1.jpg

The article, and other photos, HERE.
____________________

Okay, moving on to the next mystery! :)

ethereal_reality May 14, 2021 6:48 PM

.
Just for fun how 'bout we dive into a Robby Müller mystery location.


Here is a still from William Friedkin's 'To Live and Die in L.A.' (1985) in which Robby Müller was the cinematographer.

I am almost certain this is the interior of a real apartment. (as opposed to a movie set)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...922/tgVjUA.jpg
IMDB

Outside the window we can clearly see the Vincent Thomas Bridge in San Pedro as well as a red watertower. I thought it would be fun to try and figure out the location of this apartment building. (& if we're really good, which window in the apartment building) Of course we're totally screwed (pardon my French) if the view out the window is a back-screen projection.

I'm off to a slow start because I haven't even located the watertower yet. :mad:




There is a list, a looong list, of the filming locations used in To Live and Die in L.A. at IMDB. You can view the list Here.

.

Earl Boebert May 14, 2021 7:20 PM

My guess is the water tower is Todd Pacific Shipyards. There's a diagram of their layout on Wikipedia.

Cheers,

Earl

riichkay May 14, 2021 7:29 PM

Appreciate the kudos on resolving the Muller photo puzzle....I've been wrong as often as right on these, most recently on the Amos Aspey treehouse where I was way off, as you recall Flyingwedge nailed that one.

When I browsed the Muller images I noted he had several Austin photos taken in '79....I then pulled up whatever '70's-'80's skyline pictures I could find of the town, and the black tower jumped out of that '78 photo.

Here's a '79 Polaroid that Muller took from his Austin hotel room....is that our bad boy?....

https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...720&fit=bounds

Noir_Noir May 14, 2021 8:06 PM

:previous:

Knowing now how these Robby Müller polaroids work, I'd say that one is somewhere in Los Angeles. :tup:

jerry1656 May 14, 2021 8:27 PM

Hi,
The Todd PS looks like you nailed it, I used to live in Longbeach in 70's and 80's. But a word of caution to you great sleuths :
From the 80's and 90's I was a scenic carpenter for movies and commercials and "pick ups". We would transform any interior or place into another in less than a day or hours for shooting scenes. Herald Examiner Building becomes a regular office, ( because it was cheap rent), the Biltmore Hotel into a regular hotel ( because it really does have a secret bar behind a panel in the Pres. Suite), old DWP 1930's offices became dingy hotel rooms, and Point Fermin interior barracks became just backgrounds, just a few of 100's I worked on.
So look at the point of view and it might end up not being an apt. but could be an office, or barracks, or any other "place".
Notes:
1. The steel casement windows look like from 1930's onward , but the window cranks are 1970's retrofits.
2. The towel bar is from the 1970's to 80's .

Just remember that what you see in film and TV may or may not be real - I loved that job! and I never watched another movie or TV show ever the same after I started working in Scenery. Directors and location scouts ... It doesn't mean that the same building exterior was the same building interior, or location, or ... anything.

We could turn an office into a hotel room in less than an hour, a hotel room into a newsroom in the same. It was all about the visual. This was shot on tight budget so I doubt a soundstage set up.
Best of luck !

HossC May 14, 2021 9:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 9280452)

Just for fun how 'bout we dive into a Robby Müller mystery location.

Here is a still from William Friedkin's 'To Live and Die in L.A.' (1985) in which Robby Müller was the cinematographer.

I am almost certain this is the interior of a real apartment. (as opposed to a movie set)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...922/tgVjUA.jpg
IMDB

Outside the window we can clearly see the Vincent Thomas Bridge in San Pedro as well as a red watertower. I thought it would be fun to try and figure out the location of this apartment building. (& if we're really good, which window in the apartment building) Of course we're totally screwed if the view out the window is a back-screen projection.

I'm off to a slow start because I haven't even located the damn watertower yet. :mad:

There is a list, a looong list, of the filming locations used in To Live and Die in L.A. at IMDB. You can view the list Here.

This excerpt from an article at dailybreeze.com seems to confirm that it was a real location, but one that's no longer there:
It wasn’t the first time film crews had found the area an inviting location. Portions of William Friedkin’s 1985 neo-noir crime classic “To Live and Die in L.A.” also were filmed on Knoll Hill. The character played by Darlanne Fluegel, Ruth, has a hilltop house in the film that was located on Viewland Place, on a portion of the street that no longer exists. The film also features scenes filmed at the Vincent Thomas Bridge, the old location of Utro’s Cafe and many other locations in San Pedro and Wilmington.
Most of the buildings on Knoll Hill were demolished about 20 years ago, and today it's home to little league pitches.

RyeRyeLA May 15, 2021 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noir_Noir (Post 9279844)
Great work riichkay :worship: :tup:


The two mystery(no longer) towers.


https://i.imgur.com/R5Hxcvn.jpg
Google Maps


Both have had makeovers since the mid-1980's.


An Austin postcard from back in the day shows the Chase Tower in it's original golden splendor.

https://i.imgur.com/lkf7ZyT.jpg
austin.towers.net











btw riichkay, for ongoing product feedback purposes, did my uncanny patented reconstruction tools assist you in any way in your findings?


https://i.imgur.com/ydvBF8V.jpg



:D :runaway:




And for final closure...that elusive green building located in the middle of the block on W 2nd St. and Congress Ave. (seen behind Goodrich's sign poles).


https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...924/M6rBiX.jpg
https://texashistory.unt.edu/

CityBoyDoug May 15, 2021 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerry1656 (Post 9280559)
Hi,
........
Just remember that what you see in film and TV may or may not be real - I loved that job! and I never watched another movie or TV show ever the same after I started working in Scenery. Directors and location scouts ... It doesn't mean that the same building exterior was the same building interior, or location, or ... anything.

We could turn an office into a hotel room in less than an hour, a hotel room into a newsroom in the same. It was all about the visual. This was shot on tight budget so I doubt a soundstage set up.
Best of luck !

Thanks Jerry [scenic carpenter---sounds like a fun job.] for your professional thoughts on these photos. Over the many years NLA has featured several other confusing movie set scenes. Photos can be very tricky items. There are many ways they can be manipulated and mislabeled.

I have to laugh. I drove up that bridge from San Pedro in 1982 and my car came to a stop near that tall green pole. Out of gas and I had to back down to the entrance and call a friend to bring me some gas....this was before cell phones. :D

Martin Pal May 15, 2021 3:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyeRyeLA (Post 9280834)
And for final closure...that elusive green building located in the middle of the block on W 2nd St. and Congress Ave. (seen behind Goodrich's sign poles).

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...924/M6rBiX.jpghttps://texashistory.unt.edu/
_________________________________________________________________

RyeRyeLA, what a great exclamation point! How'd you come across that??? And no "Parallel Parking Only" at that time!

That photo was taken December 21, 1956. I noticed what I thought looked liked Christmas decorations on the pole on the left of the photo, so I took a look at the link.

The mystery no longer building was on 2nd street, so that means in the c.1970 aerial below (the dark road in the center being Congress Ave.) this building is on the northwest corner of the second street from the bottom. And the B.F. Goodrich sign looks to still be there, too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Pal (Post 9280415)
https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/c...age-asset.jpeg
_________________________________________________________________


And unrecognizable now:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Pal (Post 9280415)
https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/c...ge-tx-8266.JPG
_________________________________________________________________


Martin Pal May 15, 2021 3:28 AM

P.S.: The first photo riichkay posted dated 1978 was looking up Congress Ave. from 1st street!

Quote:

Originally Posted by riichkay (Post 9279830)
https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...720&fit=bounds
_________________________________________________________________


BillinGlendaleCA May 15, 2021 3:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HossC (Post 9280684)
This excerpt from an article at dailybreeze.com seems to confirm that it was a real location, but one that's no longer there:
It wasn’t the first time film crews had found the area an inviting location. Portions of William Friedkin’s 1985 neo-noir crime classic “To Live and Die in L.A.” also were filmed on Knoll Hill. The character played by Darlanne Fluegel, Ruth, has a hilltop house in the film that was located on Viewland Place, on a portion of the street that no longer exists. The film also features scenes filmed at the Vincent Thomas Bridge, the old location of Utro’s Cafe and many other locations in San Pedro and Wilmington.
Most of the buildings on Knoll Hill were demolished about 20 years ago, and today it's home to little league pitches.

I've shot photos of the Vincent Thomas Bridge from there, I thought it looked familiar. Here's one with the Moon rising:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...fcfd6bbf_b.jpg_9140138.jpg by BillinGlendaleCA, on Flickr

Martin Pal May 15, 2021 7:05 PM

^^^

That's a beautiful photograph! That area doesn't always feel beautiful when you're there because it's so industrial. If that's the right word. Is that white light above the bridge a star, or from last December during the conjunction, when Jupiter and Saturn were so close together?

Max Tower May 15, 2021 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Pal (Post 9280415)
Yes! Applause applause to you! Debunking Los Angeles photos in Texas, LOL! This was pretty remarkable.

Just to put a coda on the photo that captured our attention:

This is a c.1970 photo of Austin. The street in the center leading to the statehouse is Congress Ave. The Austin National Bank Tower (now known as the Bank of America Center) would have been (will be) located to the right of Congress Ave. almost exactly center of this photo. That building and the gold Chase Bank Tower were the tallest buildings in Austin at around the time of the photo we were discussing. That means the photograph was probably taken on one of the streets in the lower left quadrant. South of that is a park along the Colorado River and area designated now as Lady Bird Lake.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/c...age-asset.jpeg

Now: (!)

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/c...ge-tx-8266.JPG

And: Yes, there is a Colorado River in Texas. (I wasn't aware of that.) It's not the one we usually think of when we hear Colorado River:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped..._Watershed.png

Of further interest is an article about that "Golden Bank Tower." The author writes about it in ways that are reminiscent of people writing about the Richfield Tower. Though this building is still there, but it's exterior was removed. The glass panes, infused with real gold, weighed three hundred pounds each and were carted away to a landfill, except for a few designers that rescued a few of them.

There's also this interesting 1985 photo from the southern side of the Colorado. It always amazes me that southern Texas occasionally gets snow. (Like we know about this year.)

A view of downtown Austin during a 1985 snowfall, with the golden exterior of the American Bank Plaza building circled in red:

https://austin.towers.net/wp-content...985_snow-1.jpg

The article, and other photos, HERE.
____________________

Okay, moving on to the next mystery! :)

Fun to see you guys solve this mystery. I’m the author of the above article on the “golden mirror” tower, which is one of my major local historical obsessions — building’s just not the same without it, and it’s great to see these period photos. Just to defend the honor of my hometown for a second, I wanted to mention that the photo of downtown Austin posted above is actually a few years out of date — the tower you can see under construction on the left side was completed in 2016, and we’ve gained a few more standout projects since then: https://youtube.com/watch?v=7gTWLBU22Ck

The Austin SSP forum is very active, and if you’re interested you’ll find a lot more historic and current photos there — we’re not exactly competing with LA architecturally speaking, but we’re working on it. ;)


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