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GaylordWilshire Mar 27, 2022 4:31 PM

Re THE GARDEN OF ALLA/ALLAH...

There was also a Garden of Allah in LA predating Nazimova's operation. Here is abit of text from my history of the building it occupied at the southeast corner of Adams and Vermont, which had been been the residence of traction magnate William H. Holliday:

"Norwood M. Vedder and Sarah Alleen Vedder had just moved south from Seattle, where she was a hotel manager; in Los Angeles, Norman Vedder joined his sons Dwight and Milton in the Vedder Process Company, an oil-industry concern. Living at first at 1801 West Adams, the Vedders bought 1386 from Flora Holliday and, after some remodeling, opened it as the Garden of Allah Hotel—which predated the more famous West Hollywood establishment opened in January 1927 by silent-screen star Alla Nazimova that was initially called the Garden of Alla in tribute to herself.... The Garden of Allah survived until 1926; that August, another auction of the furnishings of 1386 West Adams was held."

FULL STORY HERE:https://adamsboulevardlosangeles.blo...ease-also.html



https://i.postimg.cc/T3FQ5HWQ/WAD138...UT-bmp-001.jpg
LAT Aug 8, 1926


NOTE
I've never found an image of William Holliday's house at 1386 West Adams, or of the building after his time. Dinner at Romanoff's, Scandia, Perino's, or Chasen's, your choice, for you and 100 of your closest friends if you can find an image of it for me.

jerry1656 Mar 27, 2022 5:19 PM

Sunset and Laural
 
From 2004 until 2020 I did my commute from Echo Park to West Hollywood for work , Esccch ,1.5 hours on a friday. I know the strip very well and keep lurking around your website. You guys are great !

Photos of the site construction March 2022 ( I believe ) are here :

https://urbanize.city/la/post/hollyw...ngs-demolition

And just for fun there is an image of Lytton and the Plush Pup on this site:

https://www.cruiselinehistory.com/ne...-sunset-strip/

I hope I posted it correctly, I couldn't do a cut and paste to add the images for some reason ?

jerry1656 Mar 27, 2022 5:21 PM

Demolition URL here:

https://urbanize.city/la/post/hollyw...ngs-demolition

Snix Mar 28, 2022 6:15 PM

I believe this is the original presentation of the Garden of Allah scale model. Under this shade pavilion on a pedestal just a bit east of the bank branch designed by Kurt Meyer in 1960. It looks like there are other artifacts in the case. I wonder if the big book is a guest ledger?

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...5e1ff4d3_b.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...69a2873a_z.jpg
Photo by Julius Shulman
© J. Paul Getty Trust. Getty Research Institute, Los Angeles (2004.R.10)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Pal (Post 9572352)
MT, I liked that photo you posted; the Garden of Allah overlay. What documentary is this about MM artifacts being found at that location? I haven't heard or read anything about that.

I don't know when that Garden of Allah model was ever at the Lytton Bank like people have often said it was. I had read about it sometime around 1980 and I went to the bank to see it. No one there knew what I was talking about.



If F. Gehry was interested in building a development inspired by the Garden of Allah, I never heard of it, but the development design first envisioned for that location was finally and thankfully rejected. Although I don't totally care for it, the new design (Click HERE) I can live with. What I really don't like about it is that when you've come down Laurel Canyon to that intersection at Sunset, you see the city spread out before you in a pleasing vista and this project takes that signature view away from that entrance after having traversed the winding roads of the canyon.



What they're doing in many cases now is designing buildings around landmarks that are so huge it effectively erases the landmarks inprint. If you see the building design being planned next to the current Angel's flight, for example, it dwarfs it so much you'd hardly know it"s even there. A place like Barnery's Beanery has a design to build around and on top/over the top of the existing place. Same with "re-imagining" the Viper Room space. It's not preserving, it's distorting.


ethereal_reality Mar 28, 2022 7:26 PM

:previous:

That's quite a presentation. When I saw it (in the mid-1980s) it was inside the lobby.

ethereal_reality Mar 28, 2022 9:33 PM

.
This interesting photograph was listed on eBay a few months back.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/8...923/JKSAXo.jpg

Has anyone heard of the Los Angeles Aviator Training School?



Don't worry. I enlarged it for you. :) .......At first, I thought this might have been a crash landing but now I'm not so sure.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/922/1kSFpm.jpg

Note the large building in the distance and the cars parked along a road. Does anyone have an idea where this might be?

Also note the woman with the two young boys posing for the photograph. (or there might be another photograph off to the right) - -that they're posing for.
.

jerry1656 Mar 28, 2022 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snix (Post 9581365)
I believe this is the original presentation of the Garden of Allah scale model. Under this shade pavilion on a pedestal just a bit east of the bank branch designed by Kurt Meyer in 1960. It looks like there are other artifacts in the case. I wonder if the big book is a guest ledger?

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...5e1ff4d3_b.jpg
Photo by Julius Shulman
© J. Paul Getty Trust. Getty Research Institute, Los Angeles (2004.R.10)

I have a question on the Julius Shulman photo .
If this Pavillion is East of the building (later a parking lot) then the Chateau Marmont, or at least the Malboro Man billboard should be behind the pavilion. Also there is a red VW bus parked in front and was no parking in front I the entrance that I remember.
If the pavillion was West of the building (matching the roof profile) then one of the tall classic apartment buildings on Crescent Heights would be in the background.
Confused :???:
Could the smog in LA have been that bad that across the street couldn't be seen? Or..... could this be another Lytton location?

Godzilla Mar 29, 2022 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerry1656 (Post 9581712)
Could the smog in LA have been that bad that across the street couldn't be seen? Or..... could this be another Lytton location?










:previous:


Note the pergola at the bottom left corner of the ad.;)



https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-spef78d9q...Savings-Ad.pnghttps://1.bp.blogspot.com/-spef78d9q...Savings-Ad.png



https://i0.wp.com/www.curbsideclassi.../206.jpg?ssl=1https://i0.wp.com/www.curbsideclassi.../206.jpg?ssl=1

Martin Pal Mar 29, 2022 4:35 PM

:previous:

If I'm not mistaken, there was discussion of that photo at one time and it was debated whether or not that actually is the model of "Allah" under that dome. For one, those trees don't look like most close-up pictures of the model and it doesn't look big enough, either, does it? Also, at one time there was some diamond shape thing in there, or under the case.
___

ETA: A couple of posts about it I could find:

https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho...ostcount=34905

https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho...ostcount=34910

___

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 9581450)
:previous:
That's quite a presentation. When I saw it (in the mid-1980s) it was inside the lobby.
_________________________________________________________________

That's very strange to me, because:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Pal (Post 9572352)
I don't know when that Garden of Allah model was ever at the Lytton Bank like people have often said it was. I had read about it sometime around 1980 and I went to the bank to see it. No one there knew what I was talking about.
_________________________________________________________________

:shrug:


Does anyone know what happened to the artwork that was inside the Lytton/Chase bank? Particularly this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by HossC (Post 7431057)
[...] Lytton Savings on Sunset Boulevard. These photos were taken by Julius Shulman in 1960.
[...]
The interior was an interesting mix of colors and modern art.

http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/z...6.jpg~original
_________________________________________________________________

I've searched and only can find info about the artwork, the statue, that was located outside the bank. Although the above photo of the stained glass has a lot of whiteness to it, that panel was extremely colorful most of the time. Especially at certain hours of the day when the sun would shine through the window on it. It made any visit to that bank a treat just to look at this. Where is it?

Big Al Mar 29, 2022 4:58 PM

A phone book from 1963 shows that Dot Records was at 1507 Vine St.https://rescarta.lapl.org/ResCarta-W...00001/00000005

Godzilla Mar 29, 2022 6:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Pal (Post 9582419)
:previous:

If I'm not mistaken, there was discussion of that photo at one time and it was debated whether or not that actually is the model of "Allah" under that dome. For one, those trees don't look like most close-up pictures of the model and it doesn't look big enough, either, does it? Also, at one time there was some diamond shape thing in there, or under the case.


According to LA Magazine: " Lytton even commissioned a miniature model of the Garden of Allah and placed it under a glass dome outside—though it has since been removed, and the park space is now a McDonald’s parking lot. That bleak sea of parking and adjacent Reagan-era mini mall are probably what give the corner a bad name with folks who would rather see the new Gehry-designed development on the site than another place to buy a McRib." https://www.lamag.com/askchris/mid-c...ng-demolition/


No idea what exactly was contained within the pergola. I would expect that anything on display would have been short lived due to UV exposure and mischief. As business and tourist traffic increased, the pergola was likely doomed due to increased parking space demand.

I was an infrequent visitor to this area. However, I do recall the Allah model in the lobby of the then Great Western Bank. On one occasion the bank's lobby was crowded with visitors and the display was near the lobby's entrance and partially covered with a drop cloth. On another occasion the display had been moved away from the entrance. One might guess that due to limited lobby space, and possibly limited interest in the Allah model, the display was shuttled around the bank before being relegated to some easily forgotten storage.

Incidentally, the overhanging roof on the northeast side of the building seemed to be in a chronic state of disrepair due to it being struck by tall vehicles.


https://th.bing.com/th/id/R.427c84d0...pid=ImgRaw&r=0https://th.bing.com/th/id/R.427c84d0...pid=ImgRaw&r=0






Mind the overhang!

https://cdn2.lamag.com/wp-content/up...hotography.jpghttps://cdn2.lamag.com/wp-content/up...hotography.jpg





https://cdn2.lamag.com/wp-content/up...04-768x980.jpghttps://cdn2.lamag.com/wp-content/up...04-768x980.jpg

Big Al Mar 29, 2022 6:35 PM

Your post, dated 10/13/11, as follows: "This is a long shot, but does anyone recognize this small streamline building? It's unidentified in the lapl archive. The address of 4032 was on Wilshire Blvd.https://wilshireboulevardhouses.blogspot.com/2013/04/

HossC Mar 29, 2022 7:32 PM

:previous:

The picture you are referring to (below) was an unknown location for nearly a year until BifRayRock solved the mystery (second post below). GW also posted some extra information, pictures and a link (third post below).

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 5442666)

This is a long shot, but does anyone recognize this small streamline building?
It's unidentified in the lapl archive.

http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/1...iedbuildin.jpg
Herman Schultheis at http://www.lapl.org/

Besides the photographer's name, the biggest clue is clearly the address 4032 (minus the name of the street).

Quote:

Originally Posted by BifRayRock (Post 5840712)

Have a strong suspicion that your quarry existed at 4032 Wilshire Blvd. Contemporaneous to Schultheis' hobby, a handful of physicians and dentists occupied a two-story structure at the 4032 Wilshire address.

The building that may have replaced your stuccoed unicorn was erected in 1961.
http://www.loopnet.com/xnet/mainsite...Original=False

PS: MR - nice work in tracking down your unicorn! or is it a morderne white whale? :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaylordWilshire (Post 6551170)

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-e...2214FBaddr.jpg

In researching the history of 4032 Wilshire Boulevard—an old friend here first brought to our attention by ER on Oct 12, 2011, and later identified by BRR—I made an interesting discovery.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-y...2520PM.bmp.jpg
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-L...844%2520PM.jpg
LAT Sept 13, 1936

The finished remodeling differs from the Times rendering, but in any case it never occurred to me that the Streamlined medical office wasn't new construction.

Full story of 4032 Wilshire Boulevard: http://wilshireboulevardhouses.blogs...e-see-our.html


jerry1656 Mar 29, 2022 11:32 PM

Thank you Godzilla, when I saw your B&W photo I thought that straightened everything up. But it only added my curiosity and details. If you sleuths have a minute please review my comparison of the Photo from Godzilla (the Cadillac BW Photo) and the 2 Shulman photos posted by Snix ( Color Shulman and BW Shulman). Both posted yesterday.

Using the Pavillion and the roofline for orientation;

Cadillac BW Photo:
- 100% correct as I remember
- Sunset Blvd is tight up against the building front
- Lytton tall pylon sign is visible
- Pavillion has benches behind it, on the south side
- Tall and low apartments are clearly visible.
- The Pavillion has a "Triangle" display case

BW Shulman Photo:
- Photo taken from opposite angle but almost the same as above.
- Pylon sign is visible - GOOD
- Parked cars on Sunset parallel to it - street parking - GOOD
- benches are in the same orientation as above- GOOD
- Mini mall across the street is visible - GOOD
- The pavilion now has a square base Kiosk/ Display case - A Different Time for sure.

Now things get a little weird----

Color Shulman Photo:
- Pavilion and roofline seem to be normal - GOOD
- Square based kiosk/ Display is under Pavilion - OK? - a different time
- Benches are now on the Sunset (north side) where there wasn't room-Huh?
- Mini mall across the street is missing - Huh?
- There is no street visible - Huh?
- Pylon sign is not there - Huh?
- Cars are clearly parked perpendicular to the front entrance at least 2 rows deep (red micro bus, a Caddy and others ) - Huh? This is not possible if this location was on Sunset Blvd.
- There is a black awning with 2 legs sticking out in front of the entrance - Huh?:???:

Kurt Meyers Wikipedia page lists that he did 5 savings building for Lytton and we know Sunset , and Pomona. That leaves 3, including a temporary one on Wilshire that I cannot find . Unless someone scanned in a Shulman photo and accidentally mirrored only 1/2 of the image I don't see how the color photo could be the Sunset Blvd location, but the B &W ones shure-ly are, but with a Kiosk/ Display case changeout at some time.
BTW, pre-covid when I worked over in WeHo it was every 2 or 3 months that a rental truck, usually a moving van would bash the overhang, the drivers were usually stopping for lunch at McDonalds or the el Pollo Loco. this went on year after year they replaced the same 3 or 4 slabs of Travertine - and they never got the colors close to matching.
When I wanted Pinches Tacos, I used to drive down Havenhurst then turn up the back ramp (very few people knew it was there) and park on the designated ramp parking spaces to go to Pinches. Pinches only has 4 parking spots. this avoided the parking lot and the darn security guards that kept all of the spaces up against the back of Chase available for the few customers that still went to the Chase bank.
That parking lot was a study in dumb and incompetent drivers.
Thank you Godzilla and Snix, and all of the rest of you for making something interesting, accurate , and fun !!!
Jerry

CaliNative Mar 30, 2022 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godzilla (Post 9582592)
According to LA Magazine:https://www.lamag.com/askchris/mid-c...ng-demolition/

Incidentally, the overhanging roof on the northeast side of the building seemed to be in a chronic state of disrepair due to it being struck by tall vehicles.


https://th.bing.com/th/id/R.427c84d0...pid=ImgRaw&r=0https://th.bing.com/th/id/R.427c84d0...pid=ImgRaw&r=0

Mind the overhang!

https://cdn2.lamag.com/wp-content/up...hotography.jpghttps://cdn2.lamag.com/wp-content/up...hotography.jpg

:previous:
Dizzying changes since 1959:

1. 1959: Lytton tears down GOA to build Lytton Savings HQ. Displays GOA model.
2. 1980s: Great Western Savings (later GW Bank) takes over Lytton Savings, acquires HQ building and GOA model in the first SL crisis.
3. 1990s: Washington Mutual (WaMu) takes over Great Western Bank (and giant Home Savings as well) in another SL crisis.
4. 2008: JP Morgan Chase Bank takes over WaMu in the financial crisis.

Amazing that the model wasn't lost. Too bad GOA wasn't allowed to stand like the Chateaux Marmont nearby. The hillside with all the mansions reminded Nazimova of Yalta, Crimea where she was born. Fewer advertising signs and clutter in the 1920s. Nazimova herself or perhaps sent employees up into the hills to buy sage honey from bee keepers. She and her hotel guests loved the sage honey.

Noir_Noir Mar 30, 2022 1:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerry1656 (Post 9582966)

Now things get a little weird----

Color Shulman Photo:
- Pavilion and roofline seem to be normal - GOOD
- Square based kiosk/ Display is under Pavilion - OK? - a different time
- Benches are now on the Sunset (north side) where there wasn't room-Huh?
- Mini mall across the street is missing - Huh?
- There is no street visible - Huh?
- Pylon sign is not there - Huh?
- Cars are clearly parked perpendicular to the front entrance at least 2 rows deep (red micro bus, a Caddy and others ) - Huh? This is not possible if this location was on Sunset Blvd.
- There is a black awning with 2 legs sticking out in front of the entrance - Huh?:???:


Picture Flip to the rescue?

https://i.imgur.com/eh285UW.jpg

Snix Mar 30, 2022 4:52 AM

Re: Does anyone know what happened to the artwork that was inside the Lytton/Chase bank?
https://www.laconservancy.org/sites/...4%2001-web.jpg
(Adrian Scott Fine/LA Conservancy)
https://www.laconservancy.org/blog/s...-trump-history

I asked the city's Office of Historic Resources about the artwork today and this was their response.

"The artwork was preserved. I believe it's being reinstalled in the new project."

From their earlier report:
The other three mitigation measures consist of the preparation of Historic American Buildings Survey (HABS) documentation of the bank building, the relocation of the two existing integrated artworks (Roger Darricarrere’s Screen and David Green’s The Family), and construction management during the demolition of the bank in addition to the submission of a salvage report.

https://planning.lacity.org/StaffRpt...6-2522-HCM.pdf


Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Pal (Post 9582419)
:previous:

If I'm not mistaken, there was discussion of that photo at one time and it was debated whether or not that actually is the model of "Allah" under that dome. For one, those trees don't look like most close-up pictures of the model and it doesn't look big enough, either, does it? Also, at one time there was some diamond shape thing in there, or under the case.
___

ETA: A couple of posts about it I could find:

https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho...ostcount=34905

https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho...ostcount=34910

___



That's very strange to me, because:



:shrug:


Does anyone know what happened to the artwork that was inside the Lytton/Chase bank? Particularly this:



I've searched and only can find info about the artwork, the statue, that was located outside the bank. Although the above photo of the stained glass has a lot of whiteness to it, that panel was extremely colorful most of the time. Especially at certain hours of the day when the sun would shine through the window on it. It made any visit to that bank a treat just to look at this. Where is it?


Martin Pal Mar 30, 2022 5:18 PM

previous:

Thank you, Snix.

http://www.publicartinla.com/sculptu...ined_glass.jpgPublic Art in L.A.

From an interesting link: Sculptural, Landscape, and Other Public Art Works in Greater Los Angeles and Southern California

jerry1656 Mar 31, 2022 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noir_Noir (Post 9583083)
Picture Flip to the rescue?

https://i.imgur.com/eh285UW.jpg

And the rescue is complete ! Thank you Noir Noir (and all the rest of you).
It was a strange phenomenon that the original color pic was taken 90 degrees off the B&W and the roof lines and Pavillion were practically symmetrical. (I couldn't find any graphics or letters in my original hunt) , but that FLIP explains only 1 location, and 1 pavilion for sure. !!
Cheers :cheers:
Jerry

Jungmann Mar 31, 2022 2:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 9581635)
.
This interesting photograph was listed on eBay a few months back.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/8...923/JKSAXo.jpg

Has anyone heard of the Los Angeles Aviator Training School?



Don't worry. I enlarged it for you. :) .......At first, I thought this might have been a crash landing but now I'm not so sure.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/922/1kSFpm.jpg

Note the large building in the distance and the cars parked along a road. Does anyone have an idea where this might be?

Also note the woman with the two young boys posing for the photograph. (or there might be another photograph off to the right) - -that they're posing for.
.

I've seen similar pictures and I believe this is the beach at Long Beach. IIRC, there was a flying school there. No, not a crash landing, although landing one of those crates was always an iffy proposition. Lincoln Beachy, a famous early flyer, known for being the first to fly across the country (with many crashes--only a few pieces of his original airplane were on his Vin Fizz Flyer when he finally reached Long Beach) died performing a loop off this beach.


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