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-   -   How Is Covid-19 Impacting Life in Your City? (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=242036)

MolsonExport Aug 31, 2021 7:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 9382595)
Not thrilled it had to come to this but I'll be damned if the anti-vaxxers are gonna drag me down into another hard lockdown with them. Not if we can do something about it.

If someone's freedoms are going to be restricted because of this, then let's start with them.

hear, hear!

MolsonExport Aug 31, 2021 7:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 9382396)
Mandatory use of a "vaccine passport" is going into effect in Quebec at midnight tonight. I think we might be the first place in the US and Canada to implement this in this way?

We have an app on our phones and people responsible for places we go also have an app to "check" our passports.

The list of stuff you're allowed to do without the vaccine passport is a lot shorter than what you're allowed to do with it.

Without a vaccine passport, you can access fairly essential stuff like shops, hospitals, hotels, etc., and you can engage in generally individual outdoor recreational activities only. You can also attend funerals and weddings, even indoors.

But most anything remotely "fun" and even not so fun will require a vaccine passport. This includes attending sporting events, concerts, movies, theatres, festivals, fairs zoos, bowling alleys, cruises, conferences, and also playing indoor sports.

It's also required for going to restaurants, clubs and bars, even on patios. Also for shopping mall food courts.

I am traveling to Montreal in September. Can non-residents access this online passport with Ontario vaccination certificates?

MolsonExport Aug 31, 2021 7:46 PM

Quote:

It's ironic how someone like me who's in "utter denial" is one of the few that keeps bringing facts, studies and numbers to the debate.
What a crock of shit. You have constantly ignored the factual evidence borne out of epidemiology studies, and advanced by the numerous people with MDs on this forum (none of which agree with you). You haven't presented any persuasive evidence to the contrary.

Acajack Aug 31, 2021 7:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MolsonExport (Post 9382744)
I am traveling to Montreal in September. Can non-residents access this online passport with Ontario vaccination certificates?

Yes, I believe printed vaccination certificates will be accepted.

Acajack Aug 31, 2021 7:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JManc (Post 9382737)
Your freedoms are being restricted as well by you having to show your passport to be allowed to sit down at a restaurant or attend a concert. I think it's a bit of a slippery slope because if people are fine with having to show your paperwork everywhere you go, then what other concessions will you be asked to give up? Especially if there is little to no pushback.
.

Especially in Quebec, we're very much a nanny state (what is referred to in French - not always nicely - as le gouvernemaman - get it?).

Mistrust of government is not even close to being as pervasive here as it is in the US.

That said, personally I do have my eye on certain Orwellian trends in society, though it's not in relation to this stuff in particular. And when it comes to that, the US is far from immunized against it. But that's a topic for another thread!;)

LA21st Aug 31, 2021 8:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 9382242)
Nobody is saying that young people can’t die from Covid. Except for Phil, I guess, but he’s in utter denial.

But it’s not something that young people need to go about their day in fear of, because that would be irrational and silly. You might as well be scared of driving a car at that point, if extremely unlikely events terrify you so.

And after vaccination, fuggetaboutit


Who said we're living in fear if we're vaccinated?
That's the point.
No fear

Acajack Aug 31, 2021 8:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by someone123 (Post 9382699)
It doesn't really make sense to hold vaccinated people hostage because unvaccinated people might use up hospital resources.

I think that in a society with universal "free" (sic) healthcare where there is nothing (think $$$) to dissuade people from seeking care regardless of their condition, not having the system everyone depends on swamped by COVID patients (whether unlucky or through their own negligence) is definitely a legitimate concern.

If I have a heart attack or one of my kids gets in an accident I don't want us turned away because there is no emergency capacity due to anti-vaxxer COVID patients who are now on ventilators, or whatever.

(Something which has happened in other parts of the world.)

I've been opining about setting up separate facilities for COVID cases that would have distinct resource allocations as well, so that all of our general healthcare capacity doesn't get sucked up by it. If the number of people stricken by COVID starts to rise significantly again and the % is massively non-vaccinated, I can see this becoming a possible topic of debate.

LA21st Aug 31, 2021 8:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil McAvity (Post 9382185)
You talk about this like it's common but it's not common at all for healthy people in their 20's or 30's to die from covid, in fact it's incredibly rare so you're full of shit. Of the 623,985 recorded American deaths from covid 14,169 of them were people under 40 years old (2.27% of all covid deaths were people under 40 years old) and that includes comorbidities so get your facts straight

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/c...ekly/index.htm

14k is alot. I bet that number is rising fast too

LA21st Aug 31, 2021 8:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by homebucket (Post 9382166)
Or are dying/dead. We've lost multiple 20-30 year olds recently. Completely healthy, no prior past medical history, no comorbidities. Nada. Of course, they were unvaccinated (so it's not like anyone really cares to be brutally honest), but yeah, the claim that just because someone is young, they're not going to die from COVID is 100% false.


Yea, 14k isn't something to ignore.

someone123 Aug 31, 2021 8:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 9382778)
I've been opining about setting up separate facilities for COVID cases that would have distinct resource allocations as well, so that all of our general healthcare capacity doesn't get sucked up by it. If the number of people stricken by COVID starts to rise significantly again and the % is massively non-vaccinated, I can see this becoming a possible topic of debate.

Yep. To clarify my point is that I don't think, if it gets there, that Canadians will tolerate vaccinated people being denied care or locked down indefinitely because coercing people into getting vaccinated is so offensive to sensibilities that it won't be considered. To date I've seen a disconnect in this area with a lot of passivity around vaccination.

Here in BC we have vaccine passports coming too and the reality is they are dubious as a mechanism for controlling spread. Vaccinated people can spread the virus too and if the unvaccinated can't go to a restaurant they can still gather privately (they are the ones least likely to follow the rules). I think it is intended more as a stick to prod people into getting vaccinated, and I could see the stick getting bigger over time. However, it is also possible that we are nearing a peak here hospital-wise (cases in the less vaccinated zones plateaued weeks ago) and the pressure will drop in the future. I don't think anybody really knows what will happen. The best case scenario seems to be that clusters of unvaccinated spread will burn out and then we'll see successively less impactful waves. The worst case is that we've seen just a tiny preview of what winter will be like.

Acajack Aug 31, 2021 8:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by someone123 (Post 9382819)
Yep. To clarify my point is that I don't think, if it gets there, that Canadians will tolerate vaccinated people being denied care or locked down indefinitely because coercing people into getting vaccinated is so offensive to sensibilities that it won't be considered. To date I've seen a disconnect in this area with a lot of passivity around vaccination.

Here in BC we have vaccine passports coming too and the reality is they are dubious as a mechanism for controlling spread. Vaccinated people can spread the virus too and if the unvaccinated can't go to a restaurant they can still gather privately (they are the ones least likely to follow the rules). I think it is intended more as a stick to prod people into getting vaccinated, and I could see the stick getting bigger over time. However, it is also possible that we are nearing a peak here hospital-wise (cases in the less vaccinated zones plateaued weeks ago) and the pressure will drop in the future. I don't think anybody really knows what will happen. The best case scenario seems to be that clusters of unvaccinated spread will burn out and then we'll see successively less impactful waves. The worst case is that we've seen just a tiny preview of what winter will be like.

We are in agreement.

suburbanite Aug 31, 2021 9:00 PM

The last part about the pockets of unvaccinated is key though in my mind. I'm becoming more and more a believer that we will have to eventually suck up the pain of overloaded hospitals temporarily while we let the virus burn through the unvaccinated. Locking down every time cases start to rise is just going to continually leave these gaps in the prevalence of antibodies that we need to really move on. There was lofty optimism that Canadians would voluntarily reach levels of vaccination needed for real herd immunity, and maybe we would have if delta hadn't emerged as the dominant strain. However I think it's clear now that parts of the country neither have the desire to implement larger sticks for the unvaccinated, nor the stomach to let this thing truly burn out in that population. It's a bad middle ground to be in.

We're also talking about a voluntarily unvaccinated population of like 6 million in Canada. I understand the risk of providing hosts for possible mutation, but undergoing perpetual lockdowns here while the virus has 100s of millions of people across the global community to seek refuge in is short-sighted from our domestic prospective.

someone123 Aug 31, 2021 9:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suburbanite (Post 9382849)
However I think it's clear now that parts of the country neither have the desire to implement larger sticks for the unvaccinated, nor the stomach to let this thing truly burn out in that population. It's a bad middle ground to be in.

I don't know when it will burn out but it has been burning a lot more than it might seem from the numbers. Here in BC the interior health zone has had around 50% of total cases for a while and most are unvaccinated people (so far lately, with delta being almost 100%, vaccinated people are 1/12 as likely to test positive and 1/35 as likely to become seriously ill). That unvaccinated interior population that has had almost half the cases, sometimes hundreds confirmed a day (is the real rate of infection 1x? 4x?), in a population of 250,000. They're acquiring resistance one way or the other...

the urban politician Aug 31, 2021 9:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 9382713)

Without saying so, you are making it sound like you consider this just a "bad flu" as certain politicians were saying a year ago, and the scenes we've all seen play out in northern Italy, India, New York last spring, LA last winter and now the Gulf Coast states are just par for the course.

I say you are wrong.

^ You are confusing me with Phil, you nitwit. I've over and over stated that COVID post-vaccine is different than COVID pre-vaccine.

Yes, post-vaccine, COVID is more like a flu in its ability to kill and subdue healthcare systems. I think you are insane for being scared, but scared and irrational you perpetually remain. Get help

the urban politician Aug 31, 2021 9:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LA21st (Post 9382777)
Who said we're living in fear if we're vaccinated?
That's the point.
No fear

YOU aren't.

But some people are. Pedestrian as our in house example. He is Howard Hughes without the wealth

JManc Aug 31, 2021 9:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 9382857)
^ You are confusing me with Phil, you nitwit. I've over and over stated that COVID post-vaccine is different than COVID pre-vaccine.

Yes, post-vaccine, COVID is more like a flu in its ability to kill and subdue healthcare systems. I think you are insane for being scared, but scared and irrational you perpetually remain. Get help

While I don't necessarily agree with Pedestrian's philosophy of 'staying in', keep in mind he is a man in his 70's in a fairly crowded city.

Camelback Sep 1, 2021 2:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil McAvity (Post 9382185)
You talk about this like it's common but it's not common at all for healthy people in their 20's or 30's to die from covid, in fact it's incredibly rare so you're full of shit. Of the 623,985 recorded American deaths from covid 14,169 of them were people under 40 years old (2.27% of all covid deaths were people under 40 years old) and that includes comorbidities so get your facts straight

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/c...ekly/index.htm

I get a total of 11,023 Covid deaths in the under 40 year old group.

11,023 Covid deaths out of a total of 302,137 deaths from all causes in the same under 40 age group.
or
11,023 Covid deaths out of 5,382,994 total deaths from all causes and all ages from 2020-2021 to date.
Under 40 Covid deaths are just 0.20% of total deaths.

Under 18 Covid deaths are just 0.007% of total deaths.

the urban politician Sep 1, 2021 2:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JManc (Post 9382869)
While I don't necessarily agree with Pedestrian's philosophy of 'staying in', keep in mind he is a man in his 70's in a fairly crowded city.

I find his level of fear irrational and unnecessary. It has no basis in science. He’s been vaccinated and wears a mask. Yet is still scared to go anywhere.

That is not virtuous. That is not being “appropriately cautious”. It is pathological. It is his right, of course, but that doesn’t mean that others in his age group are at fault for not following the same path.

iheartthed Sep 1, 2021 4:39 PM

Brooklyn is faring the pandemic better than other NYC boroughs:

Quote:

Is Brooklyn Leading New York City Out of the Pandemic?
The emptying of Manhattan’s office districts has benefited Brooklyn neighborhoods where residents worked from home, testing the balance of power between the city’s boroughs.

As Manhattan struggled, the other boroughs helped to pull the city out of its deep economic hole. And by some measures, Brooklyn has led the way.

By the end of 2020, Brooklyn’s share of the city’s private-sector jobs had increased the most of any borough during the pandemic, according to federal labor data. Of the New York City ZIP codes that had the biggest increase in new residents in the first year of the pandemic, eight of the top 10 were in Brooklyn. And last year, home prices in Brooklyn climbed to a record high.

...

In the first year of the pandemic, higher-income neighborhoods in Manhattan, including the Upper West Side and Upper East Side, saw the biggest net loss in residents in the city, according to an analysis of postal data by the Partnership for New York City, a business advocacy group.

Brooklyn, meanwhile, was poised to benefit from the shutdown of Manhattan’s office districts. The borough, which has the largest share of college-educated residents outside of Manhattan, became a popular destination for Manhattan residents seeking bigger apartments. Commuters to Manhattan were now working and shopping closer to home, boosting local businesses.

Whether these shifts prove to be lasting — and whether larger employers will start to relocate to Brooklyn — is a key question. Manhattan is home to less than 20 percent of New York City’s residents but accounts for at least half of the city’s tax revenues, according to estimates provided by the New York State comptroller’s office. Even as Manhattan’s share of the city’s property and sales taxes dipped during the pandemic, economists say that business activity in the other boroughs is unlikely to overtake Manhattan any time soon.

But already, the new era of hybrid work has prompted some smaller employers to open offices in Brooklyn, which could have broad ripple effects for neighborhoods across the city’s most populous borough. Brooklyn added more than 230,000 new residents in the past decade, according to 2020 census data released last month, the fastest population growth of any borough.

...

Among small businesses that were operating before the pandemic, only 47 percent were open in Manhattan in July, compared with 67 percent in Brooklyn, according to data from Homebase, which provides scheduling and time-tracking software for businesses.

The contrast has been especially stark in service-sector businesses, such as restaurants and salons, which were the hardest hit by job losses. Employment at those businesses in Manhattan is still 15 percent lower than it was in February 2020, while it is up 10 percent in Brooklyn in the same period, according to data from Gusto, a payroll provider for small companies.

Although the shift to remote work has hurt Manhattan restaurants that relied on the post-work happy hour crowds, it has helped restaurants in residential neighborhoods like Negril BK, which serves Caribbean cuisine in Brooklyn’s Park Slope.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/01/n...-pandemic.html

JManc Sep 1, 2021 4:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 9383484)
I find his level of fear irrational and unnecessary. It has no basis in science. He’s been vaccinated and wears a mask. Yet is still scared to go anywhere.

That is not virtuous. That is not being “appropriately cautious”. It is pathological. It is his right, of course, but that doesn’t mean that others in his age group are at fault for not following the same path.

As do I but as long as people like him aren't setting policy, he's free to be as risk adverse all he wants.


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