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-   -   How Is Covid-19 Impacting Life in Your City? (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=242036)

SIGSEGV Aug 19, 2021 4:08 PM

Also, not sure how this meme of hospitalizations not going up started. Hospitalizations are indeed going up.

https://i.imgur.com/s8BhGhM.png

There's plenty of room for now but not for unmitigated exponential growth.

10023 Aug 19, 2021 4:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV (Post 9370153)
Yes but deaths and hospitalizations follow elsewhere, why can we be so sure we're different.

Vaccines.

Vaccination “breaks the chain” (between cases and deaths), as they say. That’s true to a lesser extent in places like Alabama, because a lot of people aren’t vaccinated. In places where uptake has been better, it should hold.

And if wilfully unvaccinated people do die, who cares.

10023 Aug 19, 2021 4:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twister244 (Post 9370190)
+10000 here. I think at this point, the whole mask thing is quickly becoming a new form of wokeness and virtue signaling for people who want to feel better about themselves.

Btw 10023 - How's life in London? I'm flying there on the 31st for a month, maybe two (depending on restrictions, etc). Seems like the UK is the only place right now that doesn't really have restrictions in place.

London is open now. The only place masks are still “required” is on public transportation, but if you don’t wear one on the tube no one says anything (there are people who are medically exempt, and they can’t ask for proof). I’ve only been to a couple of stores that required masks for patrons (out of their own wokeness), and just walked out and went elsewhere.

It’s a shame we’ve had such a shitty summer weather-wise, but it’s actually fine now (like 70 degrees and not raining as frequently).

From October 1st proof of vaccination will be required for more things (and it already is for some concerts, etc). That may be a small problem for you because right now they are only accepting the NHS vaccine app, which not even I can get because I was vaccinated in the US. Unfortunately the NHS is both technically incompetent and obtuse, so they’re unable or unwilling to find a solution to that.

SIGSEGV Aug 19, 2021 5:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 9370299)
Vaccines.

Vaccination “breaks the chain” (between cases and deaths), as they say. That’s true to a lesser extent in places like Alabama, because a lot of people aren’t vaccinated. In places where uptake has been better, it should hold.

And if wilfully unvaccinated people do die, who cares.

Yeah, but only like 54% of Chicago (63% of eligible people) is fully vaccinated. That might have been good enough before but not with something more contagious like Delta. Astonishingly, only 70% of 65+ are fully vaccinated. Even if you don't care about those people, that's more than enough susceptible people to fill up hospitals if a large fraction gets sick in a short period of time (sure, they'll probably all catch COVID eventually, but we only have finite hospital capacity at any given point in time).

jtown,man Aug 19, 2021 5:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV (Post 9370187)
:haha: and we're the crazy ones.

The difference? I am not demanding you do anything.

That should be clear, and its an incredibly important distinction.

SIGSEGV Aug 19, 2021 5:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtown,man (Post 9370419)
The difference? I am not demanding you do anything.

That should be clear, and its an incredibly important distinction.

It's not so simple in public health.

JManc Aug 19, 2021 6:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV (Post 9370145)
Yes, but usually the two track. Maybe they won't in Chicago for reasons but unless you understand the mechanism, it's reckless, from a public health perspective, to assume they won't. All for what, some minor inconvenience that may turn out to be unnecessary?

Public health officials err on the side of the caution and we want them to but they don't make public policy and they also don't have to weigh other issues. When a mask mandate is handed down, it is from your mayor who has far more than just a public health perspective to consider. Until, ICU beds are drying up and Covid cases start spiking, any mandates right now are purely a political measure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by craigs
I cannot speak to Chicago's situation specifically, but thanks to all the vaxxholes who refuse to do the right thing and get the jab, there are a lot of American communities right now without available ICU beds. The same thing happened here in LA earlier in the year, and that is why we have mask mandates right now--so it doesn't happen again. It sucks, but it is important to keep ICU beds open for people who have suffered heart attacks and strokes, been in car crashes, etc.

That's the case here; unvaxx'ed are clogging up valuable ICU beds (and we have a LOT of them but I am not sure what solution is or even if there is one but the polarization is getting worse by the day. Even faced with their own mortality lying in a hospital bed, these morons still won't get vaccinated while everyone else are becoming even more resentful being asked to put their lives on hold.

homebucket Aug 19, 2021 6:52 PM

In SF we saw cases rise, followed by hospitalizations. Now cases have downtrended for the past week or two, but hospitalizations are still going up, likely due to the known 2 week lag. I'm guessing hospitalizations should peak or trend down very soon.

craigs Aug 19, 2021 8:58 PM

Alabama has run out of ICU beds.

SIGSEGV Aug 19, 2021 9:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JManc (Post 9370466)
Public health officials err on the side of the caution and we want them to but they don't make public policy and they also don't have to weigh other issues. When a mask mandate is handed down, it is from your mayor who has far more than just a public health perspective to consider. Until, ICU beds are drying up and Covid cases start spiking, any mandates right now are purely a political measure.

By the time ICU beds dry up, it's already too late, like putting sunscreen on after you already have sunburn.

the urban politician Aug 19, 2021 11:14 PM

My wife and I are of course vaccinated, and will get our boosters next month.

We are in a high vaccine community.

We largely don’t wear masks outside of our medical facilities where we work.

I’m more and more of the mindset that I don’t mind catching the Delta variant, best way to improve my immunity.

I think our society has lost a bit of common sense in this pandemic. We definitely don’t need the Government mandates, I think it’s overkill and I really think it’s hardly making a difference. It’s just the usual display of politicians trying to keep their jobs by appearing that they are “doing something”

JManc Aug 19, 2021 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV (Post 9370790)
By the time ICU beds dry up, it's already too late, like putting sunscreen on after you already have sunburn.

But there's no indication that this is even happening. It's political theater until the data starts to suggest otherwise.

Pedestrian Aug 20, 2021 6:13 AM

Quote:

S.F. moves to suspend police, fire and sheriff's employees who refuse to report vaccination status
Trisha Thadani
Aug. 19, 2021
Updated: Aug. 19, 2021 7:34 p.m.

San Francisco is moving to suspend 20 employees in the police, fire and sheriff’s departments who refused to disclose whether they are vaccinated against the coronavirus, demonstrating how seriously officials are taking the city’s vaccine mandate for its employees.

The employees will receive a letter from their department heads Thursday that outlines the consequences for failing to report their vaccination status by the Aug. 12 deadline. According to the Department of Human Resources, the city is recommending a 10-day unpaid suspension for the 11 employees in the Police Department, seven in the Fire Department and two employees in the Sheriff’s Department.

Hundreds of employees in other departments — including Department of Public Health and the Municipal Transportation Agency — who have not reported their status could receive similar letters next week. The city is still working on finalizing who will receive those letters . . . .
https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/artic...d-16399089.php

Pedestrian Aug 20, 2021 6:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craigs (Post 9370732)
Alabama has run out of ICU beds.

In a certain sense, the number of ICU beds is flexible. For example, one hospital is converting a burn unit to an ICU. Then there’s tents in the parking lot, parking garage or beds in the hospital cafeteria.

But what is less flexible is personnel, especially nurses, to attend to people in those beds. And critical care beds in non-permanent spaces will not have the built-in technology that regular ICUs do which means they will require a higher ratio of nurses to beds.

10023 Aug 20, 2021 7:05 AM

Look, here’s a basic question with I think a basic answer:

Should vaccinated people have to take on the burden of precautions (like masks) or restrictions (like social distancing e.g. table service only or capacity limits) because unvaccinated people might take up ICU beds?

The answer to me is quite clearly no.

Both on principle, and because I’m not sure it helps much. We shouldn’t go back into lockdown no matter how many anti-vaxxers die, and more moderate restrictions are just a pain in the ass that don’t accomplish anything.

Pedestrian Aug 20, 2021 7:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 9371140)
Look, here’s a basic question with I think a basic answer:

Should vaccinated people have to take on the burden of precautions (like masks) or restrictions (like social distancing e.g. table service only or capacity limits) because unvaccinated people might take up ICU beds?

The answer to me is quite clearly no.

Both on principle, and because I’m not sure it helps much. We shouldn’t go back into lockdown no matter how many anti-vaxxers die, and more moderate restrictions are just a pain in the ass that don’t accomplish anything.

I think you are ranting against the wind, at least in the US. We aren't going back into lockdown here. I don't know about other countries including the one where you chose to work.

10023 Aug 20, 2021 7:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 9371141)
I think you are ranting against the wind, at least in the US. We aren't going back into lockdown here. I don't know about other countries including the one where you chose to work.

If it’s true of lockdowns then it’s also true of going back to wearing masks.

Vaccinated people shouldn’t suffer (regardless of how significant or insignificant you personally consider the particular burden to be) for the sake of the unvaccinated. Or even be the ones that have to pick up the proverbial slack for them.

the urban politician Aug 20, 2021 1:20 PM

I think it’s deeper than masking. I think a lot of people are tired of their Governors acting like they are kings, and “what I declare is law”

I relate to that. Being against mask mandates is, in a sense, a show of defiance to that. To many, I think it’s less about masks and more about showing the finger to leaders who they think are acting like they are monarchs in what is actually a Democracy.

That’s the feeling I’m getting.

jtown,man Aug 20, 2021 1:39 PM

When does this end?

If in 2030 Chicago sees 401 cases in one day, we randomly go back to masking?

This is a religion to many now, and I am not converting to it.

Handro Aug 20, 2021 1:57 PM

anti-maskers confirmed as biggest babies on the planet. How easy it is to just throw on a mask in stores and go about your life. It reminds me of my niece throwing a temper tantrum because she doesn’t want to put on shoes before leaving the house.

That this has become the latest symbol of “freedom” for some fools is hilarious and pathetic.


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