SkyscraperPage Forum

SkyscraperPage Forum (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/index.php)
-   Found City Photos (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=23)
-   -   noirish Los Angeles (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=170279)

MartinTurnbull Mar 17, 2022 7:11 PM

Garden of Allah Hotel model scan superimposed over former site at the southwest corne
 
Recently, I did an on-camera interview for a documentary about some of Marilyn Monroe’s effects found in a public storage facility in the mini mall on the former site of the Garden of Allah Hotel. I mentioned that there was a scale model of the hotel, and gave the filmmakers the details of the guy who has it. A couple of days ago, the cinematographer emailed me to say that they scanned the model using a special camera and have superimposed the image they took using a drone they sent over what is currently a construction site. I can honestly say that in the 15 years I’ve been researching and writing about this place, it’s the first time it felt real to me. Pretty amazing, huh?!

https://martinturnbull.com/wp-conten...March-2022.png

Bristolian Mar 18, 2022 1:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by riichkay (Post 9569847)
The only puzzlement is the apparent curvature of the street around to the left in e_r's original post....Apalabasa certainly appears dead straight here and in Scotty's photo.

Optical illusion?

I think maybe there is a slight curve or bend at one point and a shadow cast on the street further down gives the impression of a continuous curve. The shadow looks like a curb.

ScottyB Mar 18, 2022 6:12 AM

Apablasa
 
Baist 1910 plate 3 shows a straight street, with offset structures

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...ed674cef_c.jpg

but in the 1933 aerial you can see the inset area where the ebay slide was taken (center) (rotated 90 deg cw from above)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...d4c079f7_k.jpg

ethereal_reality Mar 18, 2022 7:49 PM

.
Oh my! Apablasa St. it is....Thanks ScottyB and Flywedge. You two nailed it :) ..& thanks to everyone else helped. I appreciate it.




I don't recall if we have seen this glass slide before on nla.

Unknown photographer, "Young store clerk sitting in front of shops selling poultry and clothing, Old Chinatown, Los Angeles" (ca. 1900)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...922/AOcgKS.jpg
hyperallergic/huntington

At first, I thought the lad was resting on an upside-down ricksaw but I think it's just a cart.







Here's a closer look.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...922/c32uYa.jpg






Note the odd location of the lone lightbulb.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...923/7WaU5k.jpg
detail

I wonder if the sign on the right is the name of the store - - - - - - >



.

ScottyB Mar 19, 2022 6:04 AM

more Apablasa
 
Per Wikipedia, Cayetano Apablasa was very early settler and carretería in Old Los Angeles; his seven acre orchard was just south of the Plaza, and would eventually be subdivided into the Chinatown neighborhood we have been looking at.
(I'm sure odinthor could provide a vastly richer portrait of Cayetano).

At any rate there is this mention:

The family built what was believed to be the city's first frame house but it was moved in 1933 to make room for what was then Union Passenger Terminal, the nation's newest train depot when it opened in 1937–38. The Apablasa family was also responsible for Los Angeles' first subdivision, when late in the last century it sold land to Chinese residents who built the first Chinatown. An "Apablasa Street" once ran through the Chinese quarter.

Here is the house, shuttered and having seen better days even in 1885.....must have been built in the '60's. I wonder what ever became of it?

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...d682140e_b.jpg
LAPL

I believe this is it center frame in 1933
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...ac04a3e4_b.jpg


OK, climbing out of the rabbit hole now....

CaliNative Mar 19, 2022 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartinTurnbull (Post 9570427)
Recently, I did an on-camera interview for a documentary about some of Marilyn Monroe’s effects found in a public storage facility in the mini mall on the former site of the Garden of Allah Hotel. I mentioned that there was a scale model of the hotel, and gave the filmmakers the details of the guy who has it. A couple of days ago, the cinematographer emailed me to say that they scanned the model using a special camera and have superimposed the image they took using a drone they sent over what is currently a construction site. I can honestly say that in the 15 years I’ve been researching and writing about this place, it’s the first time it felt real to me. Pretty amazing, huh?!

https://martinturnbull.com/wp-conten...March-2022.png

:previous:
Martin, are there any detailed photo records of the "Garden of Allah" court apartments/hotel taken during their existance? The model looks pretty good, for the general layout. I guess when Lytton bought the place to tear it down for his savings bank building, he had the model built. I wonder if Lytton or someone else photographed the entire place, including the gardens, and the interiors if the buildings? I saw your previous work on this, including the Nazimova Society. You are the reigning expert on the Garden of Allah.

Are the detailed plat maps still available, showing the complete location and floor plans of the buildings, pool, and courtyard/open space/garden layout when Nazimova built it in the 1920s? In other words, could the Garden of Allah be rebuilt somewhere exactly as it existed during its glory days in the 1920s-1940s, when stars and literary luminaries like F. Scott Fitzgerald and Dorothy Parker lived there? I recall that Frank Gehry was interested in building a development inspired by the G. of A. What became of his plans? On hold? Thanks for your work on this.

Too bad the model that Lytton had made isn't publcally available. Lytton tore the place down for his savings and loan but left us a model. Now Lytton Savings is gone as is the Garden of Allah. Well, the Chateau Marmont is still there. If the Garden was too, sure it would still be buzzing with stars and 100% rented out like the Marmont. Such history. When they were in Hollywood writing for the movies, practically the entire Algonquin Round Table luminaries stayed there..Parker, Woolcott, Benchley etc. Also Fitzgerald, Hemingway and I believe Falkner, and many of the big stars in the films. Garbo, Dietrich and all the rest.The place reeked with history. They tore the Richfield Tower down, the Garden of Allah and many others. Hopefully we lose no more landmarks. Build around (the landmarks), don't tear down. My motto.

odinthor Mar 19, 2022 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottyB (Post 9572154)
Per Wikipedia, Cayetano Apablasa was very early settler and carretería in Old Los Angeles; his seven acre orchard was just south of the Plaza, and would eventually be subdivided into the Chinatown neighborhood we have been looking at.
(I'm sure odinthor could provide a vastly richer portrait of Cayetano).

[...]


Who, me? (Thanks, ScottyB!) My quick entry for him in the notes I keep:

Apablasa, Cayetano April 12, 1847, born; April 13, 1847, baptized at Plaza church; father, Jose Juan Apablasa (born in Chile ca. 1811-1811, to L.A. by 1836, living as an innkeeper; died 1863); 1850, present in L.A.; 1860, present in L.A.; 1870, present in Wilmington district as a wheelwright with savings of $1,500 and real estate valued at $8,000; January 30, 1874, married Concepcion Carrasco at Plaza church; 1883, “C. Apablasa, who has a vineyard on Alameda street, opposite Marchessault, has eight tons of Mission grapes to the acre. Some of the bunches weighed seven pounds” (L.A. Times, October 30, 1883); 1889, “C. Apablasa, of West Bonnie Brae, is quite ill at his residence on Grand View avenue, between Ninth and Tenth” (L.A. Times, 10/10/1889); November 14, 1889, died.

:cheers:

Martin Pal Mar 19, 2022 6:09 PM

MT, I liked that photo you posted; the Garden of Allah overlay. What documentary is this about MM artifacts being found at that location? I haven't heard or read anything about that.

I don't know when that Garden of Allah model was ever at the Lytton Bank like people have often said it was. I had read about it sometime around 1980 and I went to the bank to see it. No one there knew what I was talking about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliNative (Post 9572208)
I recall that Frank Gehry was interested in building a development inspired by the G. of A. What became of his plans? On hold?

If F. Gehry was interested in building a development inspired by the Garden of Allah, I never heard of it, but the development design first envisioned for that location was finally and thankfully rejected. Although I don't totally care for it, the new design (Click HERE) I can live with. What I really don't like about it is that when you've come down Laurel Canyon to that intersection at Sunset, you see the city spread out before you in a pleasing vista and this project takes that signature view away from that entrance after having traversed the winding roads of the canyon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliNative (Post 9572208)
Hopefully we lose no more landmarks. Build around (the landmarks), don't tear down. My motto.

What they're doing in many cases now is designing buildings around landmarks that are so huge it effectively erases the landmarks inprint. If you see the building design being planned next to the current Angel's flight, for example, it dwarfs it so much you'd hardly know it"s even there. A place like Barnery's Beanery has a design to build around and on top/over the top of the existing place. Same with "re-imagining" the Viper Room space. It's not preserving, it's distorting.

ethereal_reality Mar 19, 2022 8:45 PM

.
Mystery location(s)

The following three 'street scene' snapshots were just listed on eBay. (they're being sold separately)


#1
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...923/DBzcu9.jpg
eBay






#2
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...924/TYDbrz.jpg
eBay







#3
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...923/bVHciL.jpg
eBay



Obviously, the last photograph has the best clues but where, pray tell, is Belvedere Gardens?....:shrug:



.

odinthor Mar 19, 2022 11:44 PM

:previous:

https://i.postimg.cc/Nfhp9yqx/Belved...1921-12-11.jpg
LA Times, 12/11/1921, ad, touched up for clarity.

Noir_Noir Mar 20, 2022 3:07 AM

:previous:


The Belvedere Gardens Market was at 4831 Whittier Blvd.


https://i.imgur.com/CjmwLU0.jpg
rescarta.lapl.org


Nowdays it's the Numero Uno Market.


https://i.imgur.com/tOFwkXr.jpg
GSV


The Thrifty Store in the first Ebay picture was on the adjacent corner at 4901 Whittier Blvd.


https://i.imgur.com/vbRgEQ7.jpg
facebook.com

Martin Pal Mar 20, 2022 5:08 PM

:previous:

And Photo #2 has a reflection on the window with the mannequin of the Air Conditioned Restaurant sign of Thrifty's, so that's across the street.

ethereal_reality Mar 20, 2022 5:09 PM

:previous:

Thanks odinthor and Noir Noir. I appreciate your help. :)...Good eye, Martin Pal.


.



Here's a much older image of the Belvedere Gardens Market. (circa.1938)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/922/Qwzv56.jpg
calisphere



.

MartinTurnbull Mar 20, 2022 7:05 PM

Garden of Allah site
 
Okay, so to answer some questions:

No, I've never seen any detailed floor plans of the GOA. Back in 1926, when the place was being converted from an estate to a hotel, would the developers have had to submit those plans to the city? Or could they have done whatever they wanted?

The closest thing I've got to any of that is the map I've attached below.

The doco about MM's artifacts: I don't really know much about it other than they were discovered in a storage unit that was in a facility that was under the Lytton bank on the GOA site which had to be emptied when they tore down the entire mini mall to make way for the Frank Gehry project.

The Gehry project is underway now. "Inspired by the GOA" is overstating it, other than he's put in a a lot of garden/greenspace in his design. You can see more here:
http://www.8150sunset.com/

The model of the GOA was commissioned by Bart Lytton when he tore down the (by then rather ramshackle hotel) to put up his bank branch and motion picture museum. You can see photos of the museum here:
https://martinturnbull.com/2016/05/0...set-blvd-1962/

The model is to scale and reflects how the GOA looked in the 1950s. It originally stood under a domed pergola on the corner of Sunset and Crescent Heights, then later moved inside the bank, then later given away to the hairdresser in the mini mall, who cleaned it up. He let me come around and photograph it, which you can see here:
https://martinturnbull.wordpress.com...l-scale-model/

https://martinturnbull.com/wp-conten...of-Allah-1.jpg




Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Pal (Post 9572352)
MT, I liked that photo you posted; the Garden of Allah overlay. What documentary is this about MM artifacts being found at that location? I haven't heard or read anything about that.

I don't know when that Garden of Allah model was ever at the Lytton Bank like people have often said it was. I had read about it sometime around 1980 and I went to the bank to see it. No one there knew what I was talking about.



If F. Gehry was interested in building a development inspired by the Garden of Allah, I never heard of it, but the development design first envisioned for that location was finally and thankfully rejected. Although I don't totally care for it, the new design (Click HERE) I can live with. What I really don't like about it is that when you've come down Laurel Canyon to that intersection at Sunset, you see the city spread out before you in a pleasing vista and this project takes that signature view away from that entrance after having traversed the winding roads of the canyon.



What they're doing in many cases now is designing buildings around landmarks that are so huge it effectively erases the landmarks inprint. If you see the building design being planned next to the current Angel's flight, for example, it dwarfs it so much you'd hardly know it"s even there. A place like Barnery's Beanery has a design to build around and on top/over the top of the existing place. Same with "re-imagining" the Viper Room space. It's not preserving, it's distorting.


ethereal_reality Mar 21, 2022 12:04 AM

:previous:

It's great to see the Garden of Allah on the Sanborn map, Martin Turnbull.


I happened upon a photograph that might be new to NLA. (I don't remember them. . .but, then again, my memory sucks)

This is supposedly the only photograph of the Garden of Allah under construction. (c.1926)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...923/MfFnTX.jpg
westhollywoodhistory


The lady in the photo is believed to be Nazimova's business manage, Jean Adams.


Here's a closer look.
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/8...923/KZBD9t.jpg
detail

She's blowing her nose because of all the cement dust.




The photograph is from an online exhibit, 'A Place Called Garden of Allah' by Jon Ponder at westhollywoodhistory.
.

ethereal_reality Mar 21, 2022 12:15 AM

.

I don't remember this photograph either.



"The Garden of Allah's tiny, dark bar was replaced with this larger, noisier and more modern room."...(no date given)


https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...924/tRZ66J.jpg
westhollywoodhistory

So where -in the scheme of things- was this large room? :shrug:



https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...924/268ZIh.jpg
westhollywoodhistory





If it turns out that we have seen these photographs just pretend that we haven't. :whistle:
.

BDiH Mar 21, 2022 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Pal (Post 9572352)
MT

I don't know when that Garden of Allah model was ever at the Lytton Bank like people have often said it was. I had read about it sometime around 1980 and I went to the bank to see it. No one there knew what I was talking about.

The model was at Lytton all though the 1960s, including in the later years when that area was very popular with the hippie generation. Just across the way was Pandora's Box, Zeidler & Zeidler, Harry's Open Pit, the Steak & Stein and home plate for the L. A. Free Press vendors.

MartinTurnbull Mar 21, 2022 3:36 AM

Yes that's a photo taken during the Garden's transformation from a movie star estate to a hotel. The enigmatic woman in black is probably Jean Adams. It was Jean along with her husband who approached Nazimova with the idea of turning her estate into a hotel, thus providing her with a steady cash flow. Nazimova spent most of 1926 touring in theater so the only woman likely to be on the building site would be Jean Adams.

That link to the West Hollywood History website takes you to Jon Ponder's definitive history of the hotel. In the early 1970s, gossip columnist Sheilah Graham wrote a history of the place (because she was there a lot when she was dating F. Scott Fitzgerald in the late 1930s). But she wrong it from memory 30 years after the event and apparently nobody thought to fact-check her and just published the book. The result is an interesting but unreliable history of the place. Jon's lengthy account is by far the best way to learn the history of this famously infamous hotel.



Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 9573380)
.

I don't remember this photograph either.



"The Garden of Allah's tiny, dark bar was replaced with this larger, noisier and more modern room."...(no date given)


https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...924/tRZ66J.jpg
westhollywoodhistory

So where, in the scheme of things, was this large room? :shrug:



https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...924/268ZIh.jpg
westhollywoodhistory





If it turns out that we have seen these photographs just pretend that we haven't. :whistle:
.


Martin Pal Mar 21, 2022 6:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDiH (Post 9573406)
The model was at Lytton all though the 1960s, including in the later years when that area was very popular with the hippie generation. Just across the way was Pandora's Box, Zeidler & Zeidler, Harry's Open Pit, the Steak & Stein and home plate for the L. A. Free Press vendors.
_________________________________________________________________

Thanks for the info, BDiH! The only one of those "across the way" places I hadn't recognized was Zeidler & Zeidler. A search tells me it's a men's clothing store.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartinTurnbull (Post 9573513)
[E_R's] link to the West Hollywood History website takes you to Jon Ponder's definitive history of the hotel.
_________________________________________________________________

I hadn't known about this history site/link about the GOA before, dated only a year ago. I thought it might have been something I've just overlooked for quite a while. I'll have to take time to read the whole thing; I've been perusing bits of it for awhile. Glad to hear of it and I recommend it!

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartinTurnbull (Post 9573513)
In the early 1970's, gossip columnist Sheilah Graham wrote a history of the place (because she was there a lot when she was dating F. Scott Fitzgerald in the late 1930s). But she wrote it from memory 30 years after the event and apparently nobody thought to fact-check her and just published the book. The result is an interesting but unreliable history of the place. Jon's lengthy account is by far the best way to learn the history of this famously infamous hotel.
_________________________________________________________________

Although in perusing a few sections of this site I did notice a mistake in Jon's text: Gloria Stuart appeared in a dozen or more films at Universal in the 1930's, notably appearing opposite Claude Rains in “The Invisible Man.” She’s best remembered today, however, for winning an Oscar at age 87 for her role in “Titanic.” [Link HERE.]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Pal (Post 9572352)
If F. Gehry was interested in building a development inspired by the Garden of Allah, I never heard of it, but the development design first envisioned for that location was finally and thankfully rejected. Although I don't totally care for it, the new design (Click HERE) I can live with. What I really don't like about it is that when you've come down Laurel Canyon to that intersection at Sunset, you see the city spread out before you in a pleasing vista and this project takes that signature view away from that entrance after having traversed the winding roads of the canyon.
_________________________________________________________________

From the Jon Ponder site about The Garden of Allah, I'm learning that the new construction on the site isn't the first time mutli-story buildings have been proposed on that site.

As early as 1930, as the depression was underway:

Rendering of proposed buildings to replace the Garden of Allah (June 16, 1930)
https://www.westhollywoodhistory.org...drawings-1.jpg


When Bart Lytton, CEO of Lytton Savings and Loan, purchased it in 1959 his original plans:

Lytton told the Times that he planned to relocate his S&L’s headquarters from the suburbs to the Garden of Allah site. This meant he would raze the hotel and replace it with a modern bank building. The hotel’s parking lot in the intersection of Sunset and Crescent Heights would be transformed into a plaza and park. An office tower and low-rise row of ground level shops and offices would come later. LINK

At least my complaint about tall buildings on that site was deferred for decades.
___

Lots of interesting things to read about. In a section about the opening months of the place in 1927[HERE], it says: Over the course of the hotel’s first 16 months in business, from January 1927 to April 1928, the Garden was the subject of more than 30 mentions in the Times society columns. It mentions many Hollywood names and other famous patrons who were not "movie people" like "polo players Tommy Hitchcock and William Tevis."

I guess because the word famous was used, and I had not heard of these two before as I'm not up on my polo history, I looked them up. They are well-known in the polo world. Here's a photo of them not long after their mention of staying at the Garden of Allah:

https://kihm2.files.wordpress.com/20...1929.jpg?w=660

On the right side of the trophy, Tommy Hitchcock is all buttoned up. In his day, he was simply the best, and his presence on the San Carlos team speaks volumes about the patron’s desire to win. Of him, one writer said, “No one who has not seen a ten-goal player play fifteen-goal polo can imagine the stark power of this youth.” In a literary coincidence, Hitchcock was most probably the model for polo-playing Tom Buchanan in F. Scott Fitzgerald’s The Great Gatsby. (A Gatsby connection?! -- Fitzgerald had lived at the GOA.)

All the way to the right is William “Willie” Tevis, a Californian who had played on teams with Moore before. Tevis, whose grandfather was a founder of the Pony Express, lived for horses; his ranch had 18 stables, with stalls for 8 horses in each.

I have previously heard before of the man second to left, Averill Harriman, most notably because of his diplomacy work during WWII.

He inherited $100 million from his father, a railroad baron, and had one of the best strings of ponies in polo. After Yale and a successful business career, he served as U.S. Secretary of Commerce, Governor of New York, and U.S. Ambassador to the Soviet Union and Great Britain.

If any of this is of further interest:

A Tale of One Polo Photo
https://kihm2.wordpress.com/2010/01/...ne-polo-photo/

Horses and Polo in Their DNA
http://www.winecountrypoloclub.com/tevis.html

riichkay Mar 21, 2022 10:27 PM

Great work on "Allah" by our twin Martins, Turnbull and Pal, thanks for the informative and entertaining comments.

And re: e_r's photo of the Allah's bar, oh man is that place gorgeous....I would have haunted that room back in the day....


All times are GMT. The time now is 1:12 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.