FWIW, Verde didn't recycle on any of my visits. They had recycle bins but half of what they were serving on couldn't be thrown in one of the bins.

I think plates/napkins/etc they used were the recycled kind.

Could one argue that the owners of Verde were poorly capitalized? I seem to recall reading that a small business owner needs to be able to survive for two years without pulling a dollar out of the business to live on. In other words, you need two years of reserves to make it work. I also recall reading that the majority of small businesses fail within a certain period of time, perhaps 18 months. Then again, I'm no business expert. :)

I liked Verde. Shame it didn't last.

--don

A majority of restaurants fail within 24 months. If you can make it that long you should be good. Seems to go with the capital survival figure.

Pretty much have most of central station tore down.

http://i937.photobucket.com/albums/a...9/f566628e.jpg

^Ug, what a waste of time and money. We need a real transit station there, something at least the quality of what Tempe has, that should be the starting point. Instead we're getting some new trees and a purely cosmetic update- lame.

They should build it underground with shopping on top like denver.

This is just...sad. Over on the City-Data forums, there is a discussion on downtown Phoenix and someone who works at a downtown hotel posted...

My reply back was...

That is pathetic. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. Drive people away, and kiss your job goodbye. Simple basic economics, IDIOT!!!!!! (To the dumb hotel person not you HX)

That person is doing a disservice to his city, and has no civic pride whatsoever.

On that note, I have to sort of stand up for that person at least a little bit. As a customer service employee, you have to find a good balance and you can't just sit back and do whatever will make your city better or what will make your peers happy... you have to focus on the guest's wants and needs.

If somoene asks me for a great upscale restaurant, I really don't feel comfortable recommending anything downtown. Compass room is fairly upscale, but isn't anything remotely interesting. That said, Tempe isn't the answer either.

So basically before I jump down his throat I would ask the gentleman what the guests were looking for that he sent to Scottsdale. If they were looking for a vibrant night life scene with many selections that were walkable, then he is right. As much as I love downtown Phoenix, that aspect just isn't there yet. There are no night clubs, there isn't a centrally walkable strip of bars unless you are a colored person, and there is very little selection of upscale restaurants in the vein of Lon's, T.Cook's, Vincent, etc.

Now, if somoene asked me where a good place to shop is, I'd have them take a taxi to Biltmore Fashion Park, as I still don't consider 5 or 6 stores to be a shopping area. People staying in downtown hotels are for the most part convention attendees with a little free time to shop or spouses with nothing to do while their SO is at a convention. Sure, they can go to Cityscape and poke in a few stores, or go to AZ Center and poke in a few more, but there isn't a whole lot at either place.

When someone just wants a place to pick up a few things, I'll send them to CVS. When they want a bar to get a drink and hang out for a bit, I'll send them Seamus, Roosevelt, Lucky Strike, etc. When someone wants basic shopping, I'll send them to Cityscape or AZ Center.

The number one concern is to take care of the guest. If the guest gives you the oppurtunity to recommend something that will help your neighborhood, then yay! Unfortunately that isn't always possible and if the guest wants something your neighborhood doesn't offer, then you're doing the guest a disservice by not recommending what is the best option for them.

As for inferring that they are shooting themselves in the foot and putting their job at risk, I'd argue that isn't true. As stated before, downtown is convention business, and the draw is the convention center. Not being a nightlife mecca or a shopping district isn't going to weigh on where their company puts everyone up for future conventions. It may affect their future, if any, leisure stays, but I wouldn't recommend downtown as a vacation hub at this point yet either.

I'd also like to add that most stays are on expense accounts. When someone goes out, the likely don't have the time or patience to take a train or bus. Also, since they aren't paying for the hotel room, airfare, or most of their meals, they typically don't mind the $35 cab fare. Now, with people who are footing their own bills, they will be more likely to stay downtown or Tempe because they can ride the train and save a few bucks. These are the people you'll be keeping downtown, but the guy didn't specify much and was probably talking about people who are mainly on expense accounts.

First off, Kudos for calling this schmuck out. Obviously he either: comes from another city that he thinks is way awesomer or he hates his job, or is a total sack of goo for not knowing what the hell he is surrounded by. There are dozens of cool restaurants to go to downtown. Cityscape, with all it's fault, is not fully open yet. Even if you have to send someone out of the area, send them closer: Durants, Cibo, Coronado Cafe, Barrio Cafe. Hello, moron?

Read Vicelord's rational thoughts above.

Having wasted time on CD Forum at times, I know it's full of trolls. The person claiming to be a Downtown hotel worker might be a fake, but even if real, might be playing up the story for effect.

Nevertheless, the Vicelord makes some good points. A good concierge at a Downtown hotel would always highlight the best of Downtown, but also be willing to refer elsewhere if a customer is asking for something that just can't be found there.

This story reminds me of an article I read a few years ago about Downtown PHX. I can't remember if it was in the Republic or maybe in the national media. Either way, one of the ambassadors employed by the Downtown Phoenix Partnership was interviewed and claimed he always sent people to Scottsdale or Tempe. I think he was fired promptly after the article came out.

Thought this blog on Summit was interesting....

http://www.weknowurban.com/blog/2010...copper-square/

This is good news...

I loved this place when it was in Scottsdale, but this is a much cooler location. I hope it grows in popularity and is there for a long time to come.

I emailed the owner. Said almost all sodas will be special order by the case. If that so then ill just consider it a loss of a soda shop.

That's what I expected. I just didn't see any way to replicate the full inventory of Pop inside the Duce. This "move" seems more like a downsizing, but I guess it's better than having no Pop at all.

Anyone have an update on the alcoholism enablement subsidized housing on central?

Yes, it's been converted into a detox facility focusing on treating delusional Phoenix area hotel employees who project racist diatribes against minorities with drinking problems while pretending one's own drinking problem is somewhat cool and edgy. Should be a success. :tup:

My only drinking problem is I don't drink enough...:slob: