^^I'm going to the PIlsen one tonight.

hey guys don't look at the transportation thread much but i found this interesting website that discussed the "circle line" and other improvements that the cta should make to our tranist sytem. Some ideas are a little far stretched but others make sense. Enjoy the new cta of 2055 with maps and all!!!

http://www.gapersblock.com/detour/a_cta_map_for_2055/

^ Please tell us what you find out!!

That is pretty cool dallas is also working on it mass transit by expanding its light rail

CTA Meeing notes....
 

Well, it seems the Circle Line is in a more preliminary stage than prevouisly believed. The alignment seen in maps is just a concept, and is one of a few corridors of study.

Some points made:
-1.8 million daily trips to/from loop as of today.

All forms of transit technoligy were looked at from streetcar to maglev to see what best suits the study area bounded by Fullerton on the north, Rockwell on the west and Pershing on the south. Original corridors of study were Halsted, Clinton/Canal, Ashland (Paulina), Ashland-Ogden, Damen and Western.

It was chosen that BRT, Light Rail and Heavy Rail will be explored further in this area, and 3 corridors will continue on to the next phase of study. Those routings are: Ashland, Ashland-Ogden, and Western. As of right now, the mode of transit for the coridors could be any of the three, and exact loactions of transfer stations is not yet known. This is the purpose of community meetings in order to gather people's opinon's which is required by the FTA. They ask that all questions and comments are written onto provided cards to serve as a record for the feds that such community workshops have been conducted. So if you favor heavy rail on a certian routing, place it on a card. ;)

The CTA is working with CATS (Chicago Area Transportation Study) to determine greatest impacts, ridership, cost per rider and so forth. They currently have federal approval to conduct studies and persue funding for the circle line; red, orange and yellow line extensions, as well as the Ogden Avenue trolly.

They collected everyone's comment cards and merged them into very generalized questions for the presenters.

-As of right now, there are no immediate plans for a United Center station on the Pink Line, but it will start running in June for the *6 month expierement*.

I did have a chance to talk to a couple of the CTA planners, and mentioned our community group that will stand up in favor of increased transit and TOD developments, and one planner was so intriged that he wants me to email him more information on the group. He was also pretty impressed by Latso's idea of extending the Orange Line out to Bridgeview through the Bedford Park railyards. I menioned it to him as we were talking about the Orange Line, and refered to it as an idea by one of our members. He really loved the idea of having a Midway park 'n ride out that way.

That about wraps it up in a nutshell. I am on a mailing list to recieve any updates on the circle line project. Anyone who fills out a comment card can request the same. Under organization I put "Newly formed group of citizens for good urban planning, as of yet not named."

:previous: Thanks for that info.

Viva, we'll be looking forward to your breakdown if you go to tomorrow's meeting.

I'm curious, Chi-Shawn: Where would an extended Orange Line terminate? And why that routing? That yard runs north of Ford City (closest stores are the Wal-Mart and Pep Boys, and they aren't very close to the heart of the shopping district). I hate to be contrarian (as I've been pretty much throughout my contribution to this thread) but I don't see an Orange Line not directly serving Ford City being taken seriously by the CTA board. But hey it's all in Daniel Lipinski's congressional district so he may be sympathetic.

^You would have to talk to Latoso about that, its his idea, and a brilliant one at that. The terminus would be the Chicago Fire staduim on Harlem, which the parking lot could also serve as a park n' ride for Midway.

:previous: Yeah I figured it is a Fire Fan plan. Not to say I'm not sympathetic as a fan of Our Town's sports teams and of transit access to 'em but as a Ford City patron I'm not sure other Ford City patrons (of which there are quite many if ya ever been there) would let it slide.

And even the CTA which usually isn't in its right mind would definitely NOT be in its right mind (if that makes any sense, which I doubt) to go with anything besides heavy rail for Circle. I know you gotta go thru the motions during this, the prelim phase, but still...

Here is a quick photoshop drawing of what my idea was. I have a map as well as a satellite image so you can tell what the area is like. As you can see, my route would be relatively inexpensive because 98% of it uses existing railroad right of way. You could route the line underneath the existing bridges over the railroad tracks at Cicero and Harlem. I don't think it's unprecedented for a rail line to back up after a stop similar to how it is shown here at Ford City. Plus it was easier to route it to the east end of the shopping center which has the added bonus of being right next to Richard J. Daley College for students. I've also been toying with the idea of a Central Ave. stop in the middle of the Bedford Park Industrial Park for people who work there. I currently work at a Steelworkers Union Local that represents workers at various plants in this area and know that a large percentage of workers are from within Chicago (All areas of the city are represented) not just the immediate area. If we can get funding for this, it almost seems like a no brainer much like the Red line extension to at least 115th and the Circle line.

http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/2...ossible2dl.jpg

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/9159/orangereal1nz.jpg

:previous: That's a thoughtfully-done plan on your part. Thanks for the clarification.

As long as Ford City gets its direct service, I have no objections to your idea.

Thanks Gza. I grew up in the area and was familiar with the geography. So when I learned about plans for an eventual extension to Ford City and later the Fire stadium, I figured they had an easy extension path practically already bulldozed for themselves. Plus now with the possible 2016 Olympics you would probably need to extend to the stadium anyway to make it a practical venue for the games.

Circle Line routes narrowed

By Virginia Groark
Tribune staff reporter
Published May 3, 2006


Chicago Transit Authority officials said Tuesday that they have narrowed the possible routes for the proposed Circle Line project to three corridors that would run west of the Loop. They said they plan to spend the coming months whittling the options and will choose a final route early next year.

The CTA will explore whether the line, expected to cover an area six times the "L" Loop system, should run along Ashland Avenue, Ashland/Ogden Avenue or Western Avenue corridors.

Officials also narrowed the transportation technology options to three and will study whether to use bus rapid transit, heavy rail or light rail to speed up travel times and make it easier for passengers to transfer among lines.

Officials announced the corridor options during a public hearing in Pilsen on the proposed $1 billion plan that would link all CTA and Metra lines in the city. The Circle Line is one of five projects Congress authorized in a massive transportation bill passed last summer. But those projects must still secure federal funding, a competitive process that will pit them against other proposals across the country.

Although the CTA says it has not prioritized those projects, some worry that the size and scope of the Circle Line may push back other proposals, like the plan proposed more than 30 years ago to extend the Red Line to 130th Street.

If built, the Circle Line would cover a region bordered by Pershing Road on the south, Fullerton Avenue on the north, Rockwell Street on the west and Lake Michigan on the east.

The three options would start on Archer Avenue along the existing Orange Line. The Ashland corridor would cut north in the vicinity of Ashland Avenue and travel east between Fullerton and North Avenues to connect with the North/Clybourn station on the Red Line.

The Ashland/Ogden corridor would travel north on Ashland, head northeast on Ogden Avenue and then turn north near Halsted Street to the North/Clybourn Station.

The Western corridor would cut north on Western Avenue and head east between Fullerton and North Avenues.

This summer, officials said they will study the carrying capacity of each transit alternative as well as service demand. They must still decide whether to build elevated tracks, a subway or at road level, or a combination of all three.

New CTA and Metra stations would be added on various routes to make it possible for people to transfer between the lines without having to travel into the Loop.

Some residents said they supported the Circle Line plan but still had questions that went unanswered. "They didn't have anything written out so people could study it," said Kevin Karl Peterson, 33, head of a non-profit group called Citizens Against Terrible Transit Service. He wanted to know the possible hours of operation and where stations might be located.

Another resident worried that the Circle Line would take precedence over other, more necessary projects. "I'm in favor of the Circle Line, but I think there are needs in other areas of the city that should be met before building this downtown," said Mike Payne, 57, of the South Side neighborhood of Chatham.

Tuesday's comments were on the first of three phases of the project analysis. The second will be completed by early fall; and the third early next year.

The CTA will hold other Circle Line hearings from 6 to 8 p.m. on Wednesday at Lincoln Park High School and Thursday at the University of Illinois at Chicago's Molecular Biology Research Building.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/media/...5/23243854.gif

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news

Put me down for the Western Avenue option.

Ashland is the way to go. Dont make the loop too far out, or you decrease the potential high-density development the line could bring.

I think the original Circle Line plan is wise except for running the brown line through that short tunnel, seems like a waste of money. Just straighten out the kink at North/Halsted, put in elevated platforms, with an elevator to a single tunnel connecting to the North/Clybourn subway station, which can remain as 2 platforms servicing 2 lines (Red and Circle). MUCH cheaper than that whole superstation thing they're plugging with 4 platforms, the new short brown line subway, etc.

I'd also support more elevated structure, but that would be a political nightmare, nobody would allow it running down their street or alley.

Hopefully I'll make it to the presentation tonight

I support heavy or light rail. brt seems rather silly to me. Lets make this a real line instead of a joke

The problem I have with the Ashland corridor is that it's too redundant. Connectivity will be the Circle Line's major contribution to the CTA. This can be acheived whether the connections are at Ashland or Western. But with a Western line, you are serving an entirely new area of Chicago on a heavily traveled corridor. Ashland would be good too, but much of that corridor will already be served by the new Pink Line. An el/subway on Western opens up an entirely new area of Chicago to rail transit.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...vote23243950=1

Not a scientific survey, but the quick poll in this Tribune article seems to support the Western corridor.

i hadn't thought abuot it that way with the pink line. good point.

in any event, i'm for whichever route that gets this damn thing up and running the quickest, i don't want to take my first ride on the circle line when i'm 60 years old.

Any news from the meeting tonight?? One thing I'm curious about is the tentative plan for Western loop mentions the Circle Line cutting across "heading east between Fullerton and North Avenues" to meet up with North and Clybourn. I wonder if they mean the old abandoned ROW on Bloomingdale??

Ahh the Bloomingdale ROW. The route that should be the O'Hare Express Train, London Heathrow or Tokyo style—not a messy skip stop glorified Blue Line. Love Block 37 station, hate method and route to O'Hare. I've always thought that it should be a seperate thing, a sperate system. Envision a brightly colored high speed train (caternary or 3rd rail) emerging onto CNW/Milwaukee corridor tracks and onto the Bloomingdale route, snaking its way through the NW side to O'Hare. I can see it.

The Lincoln Park meeting had a pretty good turnout.

I think the focus on connecting trips is midguided, the focus should instead be on increased vitality of the central area. The city of chicago (CDOT, and Planning/Dev) should be more involved in the process.

that map is screwed up...what they have marked as Ashland is Division, no? Looks like the Western route, which makes great sense...

I agree with that sentiment with Western Avenue, since it is a wide parkway most of the Metra and CTA stops have one named Western and it can share with pieces of the Orange Line since the railroad runs parallel to it for a short stretch.

But one of the strengths of the Circle Line is that it utilizes the most out of their existing infrastructure, so this would be an easy sell for Federal Funding.

Overall they should look at building a new network of lines as well as this Circle Line. New lines down Western Avenue, North Ave, Fullerton or Belmont and Garfield or 63rd Street subway along existing wider parkways that then connects with the Metra Electric South Shore branch to create the "Gray Line" concept.

Division is the Name of the Blue Line stop. It is on Division/Ashland/Milwaukee. They are using Ashland on the map.

I agree with your sentiment about where the focus should be, Viva. It's just that I happen to consider Western to be part of the central area.

^Yeah, I agree. Although, the Ashland Coridor is the eaisest to expand on, The Western Corridor opens up so many more opportunities for TOD and so much more area that would be covered by extensive rail transit (I highly doubt this will be BRT, although with Westersn as wide as it is, I suppose its doable). I doubt the Ashland Corridor will bring in that much more high density development, as WILCO has already fucked up the chances of that in the locations that matter the most. The only problem with the Western Coridor is the south end of the routing which uses the Orange Line. One would have to travel from Roosevelt south to 35th before heading back north again. A much more logical routing under the Western plan would be building an El-Subway along 35th to the Red Line, which would also service US Cellular Field and IIT. Of course, that's just me toking away on a pipe dream. Then agian, the railyards along 39th-Pershing and the Stockyards Industrial Park could be used to bring the line east at a far lower cost.

What ever they do they must have easy connecting transfers at each line as they cross. They also need to make each area a TIF area and rezone a few blocks around it for denser buildings, retail, offices and housing. Urban Islands.

I hear you on the orange line connections, but I wouldn't worry about that too much. Most trips downtown will probably want to transfer at Blue or Green lines. You're right about the long detour south if you want to go east from Roosevelt, but I'm convinced that best way to go with this is to service with "L" transit the greatest possible length of Western.

And I say put it in the alleys.

And what is WILCO? Yankee Hotel Foxtrot has brought nothing but joy and happiness to my life. How could it fuck up anything??

Is it possible the circle line could be finished in time for a 2016 Olympics in Chicago?

http://www.chicago-l.org/articles/images/circleline.jpg

Yes

Possible, Yes, likely? I don't think so. The brown line reconstruction project that just started a couple of months ago was given the OK to start the process back in 1999. If I remember correctly the Circle line plan was given the OK by Congress to start the process in late 2005, assuming the exact same timeline, we would be lucky to have it finished by 2015. Throw in the fact that this project is larger in scope, and I just don't think it will finished by 2016.

**double Post**

As far as prep time and land acquisition time the circle and brown line should be about the same, but I believe once construction starts the circle line should be able to outpace the brown line. The brown/red/purple line construction project is occuring on track and stations that still have to be open and running. So construction has to take that into account. If they closed down the lines I bet they could cut a few years off this project...but of course that is not practical.

You are right on the point that building of most of the tracks (or right of ways, or BRT lanes, or whatever) should be faster, but I would guess that the planning will be much longer. The Brown line project's planning should have been relativly short, they know where the line runs. They still have to ID which of the three corridors they are going to use, what mode of transport, at, above, or below grade. All those decisions where already decided with the brown line.

So while the actual construction should be short, I would say the planning will be much longer.

For anyone that did not attend the Circle Line meetings, and want see the presentations (slides and boards) they are on the CTA website.

Public Meeting Public Meeting Presentation - May 2006
Public Meeting Display Boards - Transit Technologies - May 2006
Public Meeting Display Boards - Corridors - May 2006
Public Meeting Display Boards - Evaluation Criteria - May 2006
Public Meeting Display Boards - Preliminary Findings - May 2006


All the files are PDFs and some of them are up around 6 meg, so be warned.

i won't live west of western because of the lack of transit options although I'd like to. If the circle line were built today, i would love for it to be on ashland as I'd have that and the blue line no more then 2.5 blocks from me. However, housing is cheaper out by western so if the circle line were built, i'd definately buy a place out there after grad school.

I'm not completely aware of the areas on the west side as my time in Chicago has been spent mostly on the north side. So the density out there is beyond my knowledge. However I'm thinking the circle line would be best along a corridor that isn't too far from the United Center. It seems like Ashland would be the best fit, especially assuming the cost savings by using the existing Cermak north/south leg of the blue line.

Well, the Cermak Branch reconstruction was approved at the same time the Brown Line expansion project was approved. The Cermak Branch is now finished, while the brown line is now getting underway. Some projects take longer than others. The brown required large ammounts of eminite domain, cordination as the line cannot be shut down on weekends as the blue was, and re-bidding as all of the bids came in over prejections. All of which factored into a longer delay.

The CTA is starting a "temporay" line dubbed the Pink Line that will run on rebuilt trackes near the United Center. I think most of us believe that is temp change will last for the next 20 to 30 years so the Circle Line running that close to the United Center may be a dublicated service.

Hence the CTA wanting to move the western edge of the Circle Line farther west.

I wonder if they would close slatnley's on north & elston to put a stop in there. I hope not cause that would be my and many others only reason for using such a stop, but it came across my mind as something the CTA would do.

Isn't one of the points of getting the Olympics in 2016 to fast track many projects that otherwise would languish in CTA, city, and federal bureaocracy?

It would take alot of time, and even more money to get the city ready for the Olympics. I think 7SD will get build before Chicago gets the 2016 games.

http://chicagobusiness.com/cgi-bin/n...05-05&id=20491

Speaker Madigan throws funding curve at CTA
Provision in budget bill makes pension payments top priority

A provision quietly tucked into a Springfield budget bill has thrown an unpredictable wrench into efforts to boost funding for public transit here, potentially forcing the Chicago Transit Authority (CTA) to make payment of worker pensions a higher priority than providing service, keeping fares down or even paying current employees.

The clause was inserted in Senate Bill 1977 at the request of House Speaker Michael Madigan. It would require the CTA, beginning in 2009, to set aside enough money each month so that its now financially weak retirement plan is fully funded by 2059.

If the CTA failed to do so, the money instead would be paid by the Regional Transportation Authority out of subsidy funds the CTA otherwise would receive.

The bill, which mostly deals with non-transit budget matters, was approved by the Senate Thursday night and sent to Gov. Rod Blagojevich for his consideration.

CTA officials furiously worked behind the scenes in recent days to block the proposal because they estimate it could cost the agency $200 million a year—20% of its total budget—in just over two years, and immediately hurt the CTA’s ability to borrow funds by imperiling its credit rating.

The clause also comes as transit officials are preparing an effort for late this year or early in 2007 to revamp the way in which the RTA raises funds and subsidizes the region’s three public-transit operators CTA, Metra and PACE.

“This bill increases the pressure on the region to find new revenues,” said state Rep. Julie Hamos, D-Evanston, Mr. Madigan’s point person on transit. While the legislation may have “unintended” consequences, “All three operating agencies have a stake” in how the pension and wider funding issues are resolved, she said.

The CTA’s retirement system now has only about $1 billion on hand to pay the roughly $3 billion that actuaries say will be needed to cover pension benefits. System officials project they likely will be unable to pay retiree health benefits by early 2008, with the entire retirement system headed for insolvency by early in the next decade.

Mr. Madigan, who repeatedly has clashed with CTA President Frank Kruesi, was not available for comment on the pension provision. His spokesman said the speaker “believes that funding the pensions guaranteed to workers is an important need.”

The spokesman denied talk in Springfield that the provision would allow RTA to shift funds from Metra to the CTA. So did RTA Chairman James Reilly. But Ms. Hamos said that could be the case, particularly with capital funds.

Mr. Kruesi’s spokeswoman released a statement saying it is “reviewing the specific import of the legislation.” The agency does appreciate “the attention” being paid to its pension needs, the spokeswoman added.

Hopefully this means Madigan has some tricks up his sleeve to improve the transit funding situation in the region, otherwise CTA and their riders are FUCKED. And if Madigan doesn't, then CTA's best president in many decades (Kruesi) will be out of the job, possibly because of a political vendetta. For shame.

Bottom line is that funding needs to be increased. For operations, for preventive maintenance, for salaries, for the pension fund, for everything. Mandating that the pension fund be the top priority might cause some headaches, but in reality there should be enough to fund the whole operation. Perhaps this is an end run to force a more generous funding package???

I hope that is the case, and it means the general assembly will deal with transportation this fall. They are a lame duck since its election season so that either means:

1) nothing will get done
2) they can sneak through a tax increase to pay for stuff

If 1, then we face CTA service cuts, and the best president CTA's had in decades will be out of a job. If 2, it could be the start of a magnificent 10-15 years or so for transit in Chicago, with continued renovations and new projects like Airport Express, Circle Line, and the line extensions.

Kruesi the best? He's been a disaster on so many levels. Especially when it comes to public relations...and that's where it really counts most.

Let's save ourselves a little back and forth here...

Viva, let the forum know why you believe Kreusi to be such a good CTA president.

Alex, you do the opposite.

he's a PR nightmare. He pisses off politicians instead of working with them (god help us if we get a GOP governor come November). He fails at building a consensus at the MTA for better revenue sharing between the agencies. Kruesi has done a poor job at building a consensus between city and CTA (kruesi and Daley seem to dislike one another). In short, a good leader gets other leaders to help you fight your fight instead of fighting it alone. Not only that, but Kruesi even seemed to infuriate those at Metra and Pace before having to do some damage control on that front.

he has been extremely poor with making the CTA a more transparent agency. While Carol Brown has brought forth a certain kind of transparency through her blog, it shouldn't have gone to the point of an individual shedding some light to what the hell is going on with the agency and bringing about public discourse to what the CTA could and should do better and having the CTA respond.