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ardecila Feb 8, 2019 7:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busy Bee (Post 8464856)
In general all of the program station renovations the MTA has underway or has recently completed look snazzy as hell. Whatever architecture firm they partnered with to create the new baseline material and application standards for the station reno's has done a very good job. The Bay Ridge line has seen several station modernizations during the same initiative as well as scattered stations in Manhattan and the Bronx. The combinations of the charcoal offset floor tile, gray and blasted concrete and canopy wood ceilings all look excellent and when paired with a plethora of electronic signage and information screens and new station entrances looks like a million bucks, or more like 15-20 million bucks;)

All that said, yes, I agree that some of the new CTA stations are far more cold and prison block feeling than what I would prefer. The Cta seems to be allergic to using warm materials. I don't know if this derives from the iconic 60s-70s design standardization that was unveiled on the expressway lines or what but IMO the Cta would benefit from not using as much stainless steel, galvanized and garish blue accents everywhere.

Honestly I don't agree. The Astoria Line stations are indeed snazzy now with a nice material palette, but will that wood soffit material still look good after 10 years? Those elevated stations are quite wind-swept. Also, glass railings and windbreaks are susceptible to scratch graffiti and vandalism, which is why CTA now puts perforated stainless steel (at great cost) over any glass elements that are within reach.

And on our end, most of our new stations are pretty good, especially when Ross Barney is involved (Morgan, Cermak, etc). Washington/Wabash is also spectacular with a design by EXP. Wilson is a bit of a disappointment but the need to rebuild the whole elevated structure and totally rebuild the old terracotta buildings put a crimp on the architecture budget for the new portions.

Lastly, I am hesitant to use NY as a model for anything transit-related, given their huge issues with cost control. I'd say both cities are doing well with transit architecture these days, neither city has a clear edge.

UPChicago Feb 8, 2019 9:45 PM

It would be nice for CTA to use more quality materials but honestly, every new station has been built for durability and usability instead of aesthetics. Now if we could get rid of all the fabric seats on the cars we'd be well on our way,

sentinel Feb 8, 2019 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UPChicago (Post 8466909)
It would be nice for CTA to use more quality materials but honestly, every new station has been built for durability and usability instead of aesthetics. Now if we could get rid of all the fabric seats on the cars we'd be well on our way,

Um, a good architect/designer can deliver a project that has durable/quality materials AND a beautiful and unique aesthetic..no mutual exclusivity there, just sayin..

k1052 Feb 11, 2019 1:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 8466681)
Honestly I don't agree. The Astoria Line stations are indeed snazzy now with a nice material palette, but will that wood soffit material still look good after 10 years? Those elevated stations are quite wind-swept. Also, glass railings and windbreaks are susceptible to scratch graffiti and vandalism, which is why CTA now puts perforated stainless steel (at great cost) over any glass elements that are within reach.

Given the MTA's horrendous maintenance record at its existing stations I have to echo concern about prioritizing aesthetics over durability. It could be many many years or even decades before anything is done to fix those finishes if they do not hold up to weather or abuse.

LouisVanDerWright Feb 11, 2019 2:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sentinel (Post 8467065)
Um, a good architect/designer can deliver a project that has durable/quality materials AND a beautiful and unique aesthetic..no mutual exclusivity there, just sayin..

One might argue that this is the essence of the artform actually. Being able to design something that's not just beautiful, but also functional. Some of the best materials, like concrete, are dirt cheap. The question is whether you get a Goldberg or a Sheridan Special 40 floor pillbox.

jpIllInoIs Feb 12, 2019 10:20 PM

Amtrak Milw Airport 2nd platform $5mil FRA grant
 
WiDot gets $5 mil grant. The 2nd platform is one of the requirements to increase service on the Hiawatha route. right now all Amtrak trins must use the eastern platform making a 10 mile segment 'single track'. The 2nd platform will allow 2 way directional service at the MKE airport station.

FRA Wisconsin – Milwaukee Airport Rail Station Second Platform Project

(Up to $5,050,000)

Wisconsin Department of Transportation

The proposed project will construct a second platform at the Milwaukee Airport Rail Station, as well as elevator towers and an overhead pedestrian bridge to connect the new platform to the station. The station’s existing, single platform configuration forces both eastbound and westbound Amtrak trains to use the eastern main track to serve passengers, rather than using both tracks, which results in congestion for both passenger and CP freight trains. The new platform will improve fluidity in the corridor by enabling trains to operate on both main tracks and meet in a 10.7-mile segment of track surrounding the station, which will improve schedule flexibility and reliability. The project will also improve safety and access for passengers with disabilities by eliminating the use of an emergency platform.

Updated: Friday, February 8, 2019

ardecila Feb 13, 2019 11:53 PM

^ Good news.

It's too bad that Lake Forest and Glenview are raising such a stink about the freight sidings on Illinois' side of the Hiawatha corridor, but hopefully that leads the state to push for a more expensive alternative that moves all of CP's freight trains onto UP's New Line. It would completely remove freight from Metra's territory in the MD-N corridor, onto a railroad that was purposely built by C&NW as a freight bypass of the North Shore and is now underutilized. UP is even in favor of this idea, since they would get a free second track from the state of Illinois plus trackage rights fees from CP that currently flow to Metra.

jtown,man Feb 14, 2019 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baronvonellis (Post 8453395)
Well LSD doesn't allow trucks and 18 wheelers with heavy particulate diesel exhaust, and most of it has a green park buffer between the buildings so it's isn't quite as bad. But it's not healthy either, expressways are a big localized source of pollution in cities. I wouldn't live next to LSD either.

As a kid diesel exhaust always let me know I was in a city. I wouldn't mind it. lol

UPChicago Feb 15, 2019 3:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sentinel (Post 8467065)
Um, a good architect/designer can deliver a project that has durable/quality materials AND a beautiful and unique aesthetic..no mutual exclusivity there, just sayin..

Not exactly my point, most of the stations are nice aesthetically from the exterior, I meant that the interiors are not built for aesthetics. Nevertheless, you are correct both can be achieved.

Baronvonellis Feb 15, 2019 4:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtown,man (Post 8473642)
As a kid diesel exhaust always let me know I was in a city. I wouldn't mind it. lol

Lol, good for you. Enjoy your lung cancer, and elevated risk of other cancers I guess.

k1052 Feb 25, 2019 1:10 PM

Looks like Metra finally decided what to do about their locomotive RFP.

Metra approves $71M contract to replace aging locomotives

Quote:

Metra leaders agreed Wednesday to spend $71 million on 15 refurbished locomotives to replace some of the railroad's oldest engines.

Officials acknowledged the replacements aren't the same as new ones, but given the agency's cash shortfall, it was the best bang for the buck, Chief Mechanical Officer Kevin McCann said.

Metra has the option of purchasing 27 more locomotives from the suppliers Progress Rail Locomotives of La Grange.

The staff had considered buying both new and remanufactured locomotives but estimated buying the secondhand ones along with 24 previously owned by Amtrak would cut the number of engines in poor condition to 14 percent.

"We would expect to see a significant increase in reliability as these newer locomotives are introduced," Executive Director Jim Derwinski said.

The locomotives approved Wednesday emit less pollution than many of Metra's older models and reach "Tier 3" emission standards issued by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency. The highest and cleanest level is Tier 4.

"Would Tier 4 (locomotive) emissions look better?" McCann said. "Sure they would, but dollar for dollar we get twice the number of locomotives by purchasing remanufactured, so we're significantly reducing emissions and dealing with our reliability and state-of-good-repair issues. We feel it's the responsible thing to do."

The average age of a Metra locomotive is 31 years.
https://www.dailyherald.com/news/201...-to-save-money

I watched the part of the board meeting where the procurement was approved...if Metra gets a load of capital funding from the state expect MANY more refurbed EMD locomotives. I highly doubt they would ever buy the SC-44.

VKChaz Feb 26, 2019 5:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k1052 (Post 8486085)
Looks like Metra finally decided what to do about their locomotive RFP.

Metra approves $71M contract to replace aging locomotives



https://www.dailyherald.com/news/201...-to-save-money

I watched the part of the board meeting where the procurement was approved...if Metra gets a load of capital funding from the state expect MANY more refurbed EMD locomotives. I highly doubt they would ever buy the SC-44.

Is it unusual to convert freight locomotives to passenger use?

Busy Bee Feb 26, 2019 6:03 PM

https://farm6.static.flickr.com/5186...7ecbf005_b.jpg
_

k1052 Feb 26, 2019 6:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VKChaz (Post 8487852)
Is it unusual to convert freight locomotives to passenger use?

Somewhat, yeah. Though given what's available this is probably the best option out there if you want refurbished instead of new.

Mister Uptempo Feb 27, 2019 4:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busy Bee (Post 8487896)

That is the EMD F59PHI, 21 of which Metra has already started acquiring. That purchase was announced in February, 2018.

The locomotive mentioned in the Daily Herald article is the EMD SD70MACH-
https://i.imgur.com/2GJzs18.png
img src - trn.trains.com

https://i.imgur.com/Pz7yLJ1.jpgimg src - youtube.com

Busy Bee Feb 27, 2019 2:39 PM

Eww gross. I know that sounds immature, but look at that... really? How many years are we going to be blessed with those beauties?

bnk Feb 27, 2019 3:45 PM

https://www.chicagobusiness.com/greg...e-rail-project




February 26, 2019 02:37 PM |updated 19 hours ago



Duckworth moves to boost funding for O’Hare, rail project



The Illinois Democrat joins with a Georgia Republican in putting down a marker on two initiatives key to the Chicago-area economy.








Greg Hinz  







U.S. Sen. Tammy Duckworth, D-Ill., is wasting no time with her job on a key Senate panel, taking steps today to boost federal funding for two big projects close to the Chicago area's economy: expansion of O'Hare International Airport and completion of the Create project to unsnarl railroad traffic here.

At a hearing of the Senate Transportation & Safety Subcommittee—Duckworth recently became the ranking Democratic member—the senator announced that she and Georgia Republican Sen. David Perdue have reintroduced legislation to allow airports to tap low-interest federal loans through the Transportation Infrastructure Finance & Innovation Act, better known as TIFIA.

Chicago has used TIFIA funding for all sorts of surface transportation projects, including the new Red Line terminal at 95th Street and the downtown Riverwalk. But except for a trial airport project that the two senators pushed last year, airfields have been exempt from TIFIA.

Under the new legislation

...

ardecila Feb 27, 2019 4:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busy Bee (Post 8488978)
Eww gross. I know that sounds immature, but look at that... really? How many years are we going to be blessed with those beauties?

Or you could view it as a glass half-full sorta thing. Those locos are beefy and masculine, they seem like a great fit for Chicago's brand image as the City of Big Shoulders, stacker of wheat, player with railroads, nation's freight handler. Not everything needs to be sleek. As long as they can provide improvements over the old locos for emissions, fuel economy, and power/weight ratio, I don't see this as terrible. Clearly the money isn't there for new locos, and the offerings available in the US for new locos are pretty sad anyway.

IMO the bigger issues are design standards that make Metra feel like a 19th century claptrap railroad, like the red safety striping and the awful clanging bell. The bell is an FRA thing (v sad to hear them on Denver's sleek new electrified A Line) but the safety striping is a Metra requirement after the 1972 Metra Electric crash. Very unnecessary with PTC being a better safeguard against accidents than an engineer's eyes could ever be. At least they're being dragged kicking and screaming away from the old gallery car design toward something more modern.

Mister Uptempo Feb 27, 2019 4:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busy Bee (Post 8488978)
Eww gross. I know that sounds immature, but look at that... really? How many years are we going to be blessed with those beauties?

They are homely, but there are more important things than locomotive aesthetics.

The SD70's will be rebuilt to Tier III emission standards, so less CO and particulate matter getting belched into the air and at Union Station. The SD70's and the F59s share a lot of parts, reducing potential problems in the supply chain and costs associated with maintaining and warehousing separate parts inventories. According to Metra, with the acquisition of the F59s, and if they exercise their options to purchase all 42 rebuilt SD70s, the percentage of Metra locomotives in marginal to poor condition will drop from 70% down to 14%.

Metra looks to be doing the best they can with the hand they've been dealt. Considering how poorly funded Metra is, and taking into account that they have had to pay for 90% of the $400 million mandatory PTC upgrade out of their own pockets, being forced to buy second-hand iron should come as no surprise.

Even if Metra did have the cash to buy new the only choices available would be either the Charger, which already has 116 orders waiting (and potentially as many as 131) to be filled, or the F125, which, by most accounts, is a rolling dumpster fire.

k1052 Feb 27, 2019 5:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister Uptempo (Post 8489161)
.
Even if Metra did have the cash to buy new the only choices available would be either the Charger, which already has 116 orders waiting (and potentially as many as 131) to be filled, or the F125, which, by most accounts, is a rolling dumpster fire.

If Metra had a billion dollars dropped on it today I doubt they'd by the SC-44. They don't want to deal with a new engine and DEF, regardless of the benefits on the emissions side.

More Tier 3 locomotives on the railroad is an improvement however. I'm not sure if these will be outfitted with their own HEP generators or if they're going to just run it off the inverters. If they're going into CUS then Tier 4 HEP generators would be really preferable.

ardecila Mar 10, 2019 7:25 PM

Canopy at the Belmont Blue Line stop is up... I passed by it this afternoon, it looks enormous!

http://i66.tinypic.com/2hx0fet.jpg
twitter/@NathanLeeOlson

k1052 Mar 10, 2019 10:36 PM

They should have spent the money adding an entrance on the North side of Belmont instead.

emathias Mar 13, 2019 6:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k1052 (Post 8501251)
They should have spent the money adding an entrance on the North side of Belmont instead.

Until/unless there is a serious redevelopment of the stores on the NE part of Belmont/Kimball, it's be a waste of money to build an entrance there. And then if those circumstances come to be, the developer should chip in.

emathias Mar 13, 2019 6:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busy Bee (Post 8488978)
Eww gross. I know that sounds immature, but look at that... really? How many years are we going to be blessed with those beauties?

As long as they're reliable, that's the important thing. And if anything needs to be upgraded aesthetically, it's the passenger carriages, not the locomotives. Some of the Metra cars feel like you could shoot period pieces in, not like modern transit vehicles.

k1052 Mar 13, 2019 4:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emathias (Post 8503903)
Until/unless there is a serious redevelopment of the stores on the NE part of Belmont/Kimball, it's be a waste of money to build an entrance there. And then if those circumstances come to be, the developer should chip in.

Eliminating the turns (time) required of the westbound busses to would have been more than worth it.

emathias Mar 14, 2019 1:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k1052 (Post 8504281)
Eliminating the turns (time) required of the westbound busses to would have been more than worth it.

Then that would be much bigger than just an auxiliary exit. The buses don't turn there just to avoid people crossing the street.

LouisVanDerWright Mar 14, 2019 2:56 AM

A better second entrance would have been to construct one at Barry...

jpIllInoIs Mar 20, 2019 1:06 AM

Peterson Metra station funded
 
http://www.edgevillebuzz.com/news/pr...o-be-announced

"The long awaited Peterson Metra station which has been proposed at Peterson and Ridge has finally been funded after years of delays and political fighting.

The news was announced today by State Representative Greg Harris and State Senator Heather Steans that the funding has been released by Governor J.B. Pritzker after years of fighting with Governor Rauner over the project."

the urban politician Mar 20, 2019 1:14 AM

$15 million to build.

As opposed to over $100 million for a CTA station....

k1052 Mar 21, 2019 3:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 8511784)
$15 million to build.

As opposed to over $100 million for a CTA station....

While I find CTA costs inflated they spend $40-50M on an infill station. Also they don't usually have the luxury of an embankment to build on.

k1052 Mar 21, 2019 3:18 AM

Metra finally issuing an RFP for 200 bilevel cars with options for 200 more. So happy that only one manufacturer even responded to the previous RFP for new gallery cars so they had to actually bother looking at modern bilevels.

Also seems the VW settlement money has shaken loose. Conditions of the funding mean Metra has to buy the most modern locomotives with Tier 4 emissions so that probably means we'll actually be seeing SC-44s at some point in the future since the EMD F125 is a disaster.



Quote:

Metra on Wednesday announced plans to buy at least 200 new rail cars, which could help cut delays on the system.

The commuter railroad is putting out a request for proposals for 200 to 400 cars that are compatible with its diesel locomotives. Currently, Metra has 848 diesel rail cars, with an average age of 30. Some cars are more than 60 years old.

Also at Wednesday’s monthly board meeting, Metra announced that funding is available to build the long-awaited Peterson/Ravenswood station in Chicago’s West Ridge neighborhood, and the agency plans to buy eight new low-emission locomotives.

New rail cars would replace older cars, and could have a different design that would accommodate more people and allow for easier boarding.

That could help with delays, which in part can be caused by doors on old cars getting stuck during inclement weather. Another cause is slow boarding, which can be alleviated by more seats on cars, more doors and fewer stairs, Metra officials said.
Quote:

Metra can pay for about 200 new cars using both financial reserves and existing federal and local funding. Proposals will be due in August, and Metra hopes to finalize it by the end of the year. The railroad also hopes that the state legislature will pass a capital bill to provide more funding for new equipment. There has not been a capital bill in 10 years.
Quote:

Metra said it plans to spend a total of $56 million, including $14 million from a settlement with the Volkswagen car company, to buy eight “Tier 4” locomotives, which are the lowest-emission type of diesel locomotive. Illinois received about $109 million from $15 billion in settlements with the German car company after it admitted to installing secret software that allowed U.S. diesel vehicles to emit up to 40 times more pollution than legal limits. The Illinois portion of the settlement is intended for clean-air programs. Derwinski told reporters that the new locomotives would probably go on the BNSF line.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...319-story.html

ardecila Mar 22, 2019 12:15 AM

^ What even are the options for modern bilevels?

I can only think of the Bombardier and Kawasaki ones. Siemens has one overseas, but I'd guess it doesn't meet US regulations or they would have offered it up when the Amtrak deal with Nippon Sharyo went belly up. Instead they are offering single-level coaches like the ones for Brightline.

CRRC could probably do it, but Congress is hot to sever ties with them. Anybody else?

llamaorama Mar 22, 2019 12:54 AM

Rotem somewhat recently supplied new bilevels to MBTA, TriRail, andMetrolink.

CRRC as you mentioned is building new bilevels for SEPTA.

k1052 Mar 22, 2019 12:01 PM

Yeah, there are at least 4 or 5 companies likely to submit proposals. I don't have a strong preference on what gets selected at this point. Just happy to see the end of the inefficient and ancient gallery design on the distant horizon since Metra has no choice.

ardecila Mar 22, 2019 2:19 PM

The gallery car is obsolete, but I will miss the old-school Metra seating. Far more comfortable than any train, domestic or overseas, I've ever ridden in... and I love the option to flip the seat.

Mr Downtown Mar 22, 2019 3:56 PM

^Really??? I bring an inflatable lumbar support any time I have to ride Metra very far.

ardecila Mar 22, 2019 11:00 PM

^ I love the padded bench seating and hate the airplane-style seats on Amtrak and most other intercity carriers. Bench seats let you spread out or adjust to different positions.

Via Chicago Mar 29, 2019 4:21 PM

does anyone know whats going on with the proposed new State/Lake CTA stop? funding was announced in 2017:

https://chicago.curbed.com/2017/10/1...a-station-loop

havent heard a peep since. its truly a functional disaster in its current state and gets worse by the day

glowrock Mar 29, 2019 7:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Via Chicago (Post 8523301)
does anyone know whats going on with the proposed new State/Lake CTA stop? funding was announced in 2017:

https://chicago.curbed.com/2017/10/1...a-station-loop

havent heard a peep since. its truly a functional disaster in its current state and gets worse by the day

Good question! Given that I was literally just at the State/Lake stop transferring from Green to Red and vice/versa, it's definitely quite the disaster in terms of ease of access and room to maneuver around! :)

Aaron (Glowrock)

Chicagoguy Mar 29, 2019 9:17 PM

New $17 Million CTA Belmont Blue Line Station Completed

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...328-story.html

ardecila Mar 29, 2019 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Via Chicago (Post 8523301)
does anyone know whats going on with the proposed new State/Lake CTA stop? funding was announced in 2017:

https://chicago.curbed.com/2017/10/1...a-station-loop

havent heard a peep since. its truly a functional disaster in its current state and gets worse by the day

CDOT usually funds these station projects using CMAQ grants from the Feds... IDOT has to allocate the CMAQ money up to 5 years in advance of when the Feds actually release the money.

wwmiv Mar 30, 2019 3:53 AM

I'm sorry, but they spent $17 million with all these architectural flourishes, but adding an elevator to be handicap accessible was "too expensive"? Give me a break.

orulz Apr 5, 2019 2:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 8514982)
The gallery car is obsolete, but I will miss the old-school Metra seating. Far more comfortable than any train, domestic or overseas, I've ever ridden in... and I love the option to flip the seat.

Late to the party, but while I do agree that flip-back seating is overwhelmingly the best configuration, I have ridden trains with flip-back seating in Japan that were overwhelmingly superior to what they have on Metra. This is a picture of such from the 225-class that operates in the Kansai area.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...000_inside.jpg

Also, Stadler is dramatically ramping up their US operations and I would be surprised if they do not bid on this.

Too bad Metra already replaced the Highliners - Stadler is building bilevel EMUs for Caltrain based on their KISS model, which would look just fantastic on the ME and South Shore. They have a really awesome system for dual-height boarding, too. A configuration that supports both AC and DC overhead is available and would be the perfect trains for Metra to order to help with future electrification.

Busy Bee Apr 5, 2019 4:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orulz (Post 8530862)
Too bad Metra already replaced the Highliners - Stadler is building bilevel EMUs for Caltrain based on their KISS model, which would look just fantastic on the ME and South Shore. They have a really awesome system for dual-height boarding, too. A configuration that supports both AC and DC overhead is available and would be the perfect trains for Metra to order to help with future electrification.


Please don't get me going. Watching Metra replace those IC Highliners with those artless anachronisms was like witnessing the devolution of Man.

k1052 Apr 5, 2019 9:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orulz (Post 8530862)
Too bad Metra already replaced the Highliners - Stadler is building bilevel EMUs for Caltrain based on their KISS model, which would look just fantastic on the ME and South Shore. They have a really awesome system for dual-height boarding, too. A configuration that supports both AC and DC overhead is available and would be the perfect trains for Metra to order to help with future electrification.

These are what I'm praying for if Metra gets the money to electrify the Rock Island.

ardecila Apr 6, 2019 2:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orulz (Post 8530862)
Also, Stadler is dramatically ramping up their US operations and I would be surprised if they do not bid on this.

I dunno. After Nippon Sharyo's debacle trying to get bilevel cars to meet the FRA's buff strength requirements, Stadler's gotta be thinking twice.

All their other US orders will operate outside of the FRA regulatory environment, either because the railroads have sought and received waivers from those rules, or because they're considered rapid transit and don't fall under FRA jurisdiction.

I know FRA revised their rules recently, but IIRC they don't help Metra very much since their trains mix so much with freight, time separation or other techniques used to reduce collision risk don't apply here.

Metra Electric, as usual, is the exception... I agree it would be the perfect environment for Stadler bilevels. Rock Island also, since Metra keeps the freight traffic there to a minimum and it is grade separated from all intersecting railroads between the South Loop and New Lenox.

orulz Apr 6, 2019 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 8531621)
I dunno. After Nippon Sharyo's debacle trying to get bilevel cars to meet the FRA's buff strength requirements, Stadler's gotta be thinking twice.

All their other US orders will operate outside of the FRA regulatory environment, either because the railroads have sought and received waivers from those rules, or because they're considered rapid transit and don't fall under FRA jurisdiction.

I know FRA revised their rules recently, but IIRC they don't help Metra very much since their trains mix so much with freight, time separation or other techniques used to reduce collision risk don't apply here.

Metra Electric, as usual, is the exception... I agree it would be the perfect environment for Stadler bilevels. Rock Island also, since Metra keeps the freight traffic there to a minimum and it is grade separated from all intersecting railroads between the South Loop and New Lenox.

The thing is that vehicles built under the new FRA Crash Energy Management rules (based on European standards) are actually safer in crashes, even with freight, than stuff built under the old buff strength regs. Think: modern cars with crumple zones vs. old heavy cars. Are you safer in a Tesla or a 1970s Volvo? Although old Volvos have a reputation for being built like a tank, modern standards and crash testing means that literally any vehicle built in 2019 is way, way safer than something from back then. FRA did not relax their standards of passenger safety when they approved CEM crash standards. CEM does not make mixed operation with freight less desirable or less safe. CEM is a more stringent standard period. FRA is just so slow that it took them literally decades to wake up.

Although the Stadler KISS are under a waiver in California, it is likely that it would meet the FRA CEM standards with a few relatively minor changes (different type of glass, emergency egress configuration, etc)

Busy Bee Apr 6, 2019 11:36 PM

^Different type of glass?

orulz Apr 7, 2019 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busy Bee (Post 8532215)
^Different type of glass?

European standards for tempered glass are different than US standards or some such. Don't quote me on that. Something I vaguely recall from some blog or forum post. The point is, the new FRA regs are very closely based on European regs with which the KISS is already compliant. The Caltrain EMU carbodies were tested for strength in some capacity as a part of the waiver process (not quite sure the specifics of the test) but they passed.

electricron Apr 7, 2019 5:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orulz (Post 8532200)
Although the Stadler KISS are under a waiver in California, it is likely that it would meet the FRA CEM standards with a few relatively minor changes (different type of glass, emergency egress configuration, etc)

Not so fast there, what you state was true but not now. DCTA GTWs met every old FRA regulation - the sole exceptions being associated with buff strength - with the new Crash Energy Management (CEM) alternate regulations replaced.
CapMetro's GTWs had European standard glass, seating, and others vs meeting the old FRA regulations - but are presently going through the effort to make all of their GTWs, pre DCTA and post DCTA versions, to match the DCTA GTWs. All subsequent Stadler trains built for the US market are fully FRA compliant, alternate only using CEM vs meeting the older buff strength standard.

So the KISS trains being built by Stadler for Caltrain will have US vendor supplied safety glass and seats, etc. meeting even the older FRA regulations for those items. It took Stadler time and money to find these US vendors so as to meet the new FRA alternate compliance regulations, time and money working with the FRA, with Texas and California transit agencies and their Congressmen and Senators working behind the scenes to get the regulations changed.

The new metro style trains being built for Atlanta will also meet all the FTA regulations when it comes to glass and seats and etc. because Stadler has vendors in its American supply chain that can build these items to FTA and FRA regulations.

They might be an European train manufacture using European based designs, but they have been modified to incorporate stuff meeting American regulations as much as possible - basically all except buff strength.


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