Those are called signals

Actually, they're home signals....signals that are absolute....meaning if red over red means stop and stay. The two tracks on the left are normally southbound, going towards the reader...then the signals facing you are reverse move signals. The two tracks on the far right are normally northbound so the signals are normal. In the track structure are trips painted white. These trips will stop a train moving against a red signal. Note all signals in the picture display red because a route had been set up to allow the train the pass through the interlocking.

I am trying to write a short report about if the loop link can have an affect on office rents along Madison and Randolph. Anyone have any opinions or hard facts they can share?

That's a tough one... I doubt the office rents along Madison and Randolph will be especially affected compared to other streets like Washington or Monroe. The benefits of the BRT are diffused across the Loop and not confined to particular streets.

There might be a more immediate impact on street-level rents... retailers and restaurateurs are not likely to pay quite as much for a space with such a convoluted loading arrangement (can't park your delivery trucks in the bus lane). On the other hand, the BRT will deliver thousands of customers right at their doorstep. The results would be interesting.

The other interesting effect of Loop Link is on East Loop and Michigan Ave office rents generally (east of State). Right now, the desirability of these areas is harmed by their distance from Metra trains at Union/Ogilvie, which is why there hasn't been a new office tower over there since 2Pru in 1990, and all the Class C buildings have been converted to hotels or residential. Loop Link will improve the connections of these areas to Metra, although the lack of integrated fares between Metra/CTA is still a huge PITA.

^Very well put.

MultiModal, since Loop Link isn't in yet, here's your chance to do the big definitive longitudinal study. Look at the rents now—compared to elsewhere downtown—and again a decade from now.

Thanks for your thorough explanation. How about the lights on top of the train? Why are they colorful?

Washington?

Wabash lights concept is going to crowdfund the installation of the first 48 feet of their project. It would be awesome if they did the entire length of Wabash like this and coordinated with the trains passing above so you could see which trains are coming and run to catch them.

http://www.marinacityonline.com/imag...ighting1sm.jpg

Link to crowd funding in the below blog:
http://www.marinacityonline.com/news/wabash0612.htm

They are route marker lights.
http://www.chicago-l.org/operations/...s/markers.html

If the Wabash Lights becomes successful, the better consider doing something similar for the Lake St. Branch. It wouldn't be an expensive way to make people feel more comfortable around the Green line.

Why not the entire loop then? Wouldn't that make sense?

Title VI Civil Rights Non-Compliance Complaint announced, June CTA Board of Directors Meeting: https://youtu.be/get2wPjbJxg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s...f/P1040671.jpg

"The question: Is it worth having the Chicago Transit Authority spend that much to build a flyover bridge to separate the Red and Brown line tracks at the so-called Clark Junction, just south of Wrigley Field......"


In the discussion of flat junctions in use by the CTA Rail, only one flying junction is in service, the so-called "Grand Junction", 17th St. interlocking, used by the Green and Orange lines. The other day-to-day operations today are handled by flat junctions: at 59th St. on the south side; Paulina Jct. on the west side; Clark Tower and Howard on the north side; and two flat ones on the Loop "L"....Tower 18 and Tower 12. Two other flying junctions are only used for transfer, work trains, another non-revunue moves.

Referencing the photo, I think the lay-person doesn't take it into mind that more has to go on before a move can be made at Clark Tower. Some people say it's only 20, or 30 seconds for a train to travel the distance through Clark Tower. What they fail to account in their timing that it takes time to clear the first routing before setting up the next route. The Brown line train in the picture has to complete its move and clear, then the next move can be lined up. In the meantime, trains approaching have to limit their speeds, adding to their time. Often its THESE MINUTES that gets overlooked when the lay-person says it only took 20-30 second.

DH

I am not a lay-person David, I drove C&NW trains for 3 years in the 70's until I was laid-off due to declining freight business; there are Interlockings all over any Class I Railroad just like the "L", and they take time to align/realign routes also, in the same way. And it also takes time to realign the ladder switches, and set the car retarders below an assembling yard hump before you release the next car, or group of cars down the hill -- so you see I do understand! CTA doesn't have any car retarders in their tracks, do they?

There is no point in discussing this with you, because we are both concrete solidified in our respective opinions; and will not change!

If the Title VI Complaint is successfully resolved, A new State "Transit Project Review Board" (in a PUBLIC Format -- with PUBLIC input) will Study, Rank, and Designate which Transit Agency submitted Major Capital Projects provide the MOST Benefits, for the LEAST Cost.

Is something wrong with that in your eyes? Seems to me to be the fairest thing I could possibly imagine (the Gray Line might flunk the test too, you know)

Dorval Carter Jr. didn't spend a lot of time worrying about keeping.....
 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/c...mn.html#page=1

Jon Hilkevitch

June 14th, 2015 5:06 pm

Dorval Carter Jr. didn't spend a lot of time worrying about keeping trains and buses running during the more than 30 years he worked in mass transit as a legal eagle, a gatekeeper of federal grants and a top policy adviser to the Obama administration's transportation czar.

But it's a new day. Monday marks four weeks that Carter has been on the job as president of the Chicago Transit Authority. Already, two emergencies have flared on his watch.....

Read the Tea Leaves -- Hilkevitch mentions Loop Link, Blue Line, Red Line 95th, Wilson, and Red/Purple; NO reference to the Red Line Extension:

"Q: The CTA has numerous infrastructure improvement projects underway — Loop Link bus rapid transit, the Blue Line O'Hare branch renewal, Red Line 95th Street terminal expansion and reconstruction, Wilson station replacement, Red-Purple Modernization, among others".

Who mentioned your name? Do you have to respond whenever? I know what you have said before about your CNW experience. I was pointing out for the persons not in the know, especially those clocking 20 and 30 seconds moving through Clark that it takes more time to set route, especially when your train is stopped due to a conflicting movement.

If you've noticed this Skyscraper page Transit Developments used to be robust, now it is all but dead. No one participates anymore. One poster (guess who?) has over fifty percent of posting and almost no response.

So getting a response to your "Title VI Complaint" I go to another forum "CTA Tattler" where there's named "Jack"......Apparently the only conclusion from the pro flyover contingent here (especially urbaneddie) is that they deserve the money more than other parts of town.

I don't know if your suit is going anywhere, but I agree with your point about the need for a Transit Project Review Board, If nothing else, a prioritized list of projects would have a better chance of getting funded......

Aside that it has to be filed to count, the answer can be that they have spent as much on this as they have on the 130th extension, which is of course only consultant money. Both the Wilson station and the 95th bus terminal are each getting about $240 million, from about somewhere, and I don't think that black people of the Spokane type live around Wilson, but Afro-Americans do....

Also, don't forget that Rahm Emanuel personally rebuilt the Red Line Dan Ryan segment and as a result, won the runoff. That goes into the lawsuit calculus....

The last I remember, communities such as Roseland, West Pullman, and Altgeld Gardens lost their white populations maybe 40 years ago, so extending the Red Line to 130th isn't serving the white community. Chatham and Burnside are already served by the Red Line.....

And, I seem to remember that you played the Title VI card for the communities you mentioned 10 years ago, and it took you about 5 years to admit that it didn't work.....

The only thing I was trying to say in my post is that the people who claim they have a Title VI claim here can't prove discrimination, other than it probably will be white people who will be displaced by this project. They can't prove discrimination against blacks. Furthermore, any suit is undoubtedly not ripe in the legal sense.....

Finally, my understanding is that Metra does serve Lisle.

I like that phrase...." I seem to remember that you played the Title VI card for the communities you mentioned 10 years ago, and it took you about 5 years to admit that it didn't work."

DH

I think this thread is dead because most of the Chicago enthusiasts now go straight to the Chicago Projects & Construction forum, and this thread hasn't been linked into it. I think it should be.

Time For A New CTA Wrapped Rail Car, "Champions"
 

Stanley Cup Champions, Chicago Blackhawks; CTA...Seems like its time for another sports Championship wrap.... like the CTA 3311-3312 for the Champion Chicago White Sox.

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s...f/100_0714.jpg

DH

I admitting know next to nothing about electrification, motor engineering, train infrastructure etc. so my next question will likely reflect that. However here she goes......

Is there any type of duel train engine that could be the potential remedy so that these underground terminals will not be have to run on their diesel engine? Would there be anyway to implement an electrification/catenary system for at least the last few hundred yards or say 1/4 mile near the end of the terminal. Then at least when these engines are idling underground they can switch over to an electric system. Then when they go out on the outbound runs they switch over to diesel.

I remember reading a few weeks ago about the new DMU airport express trains that Toronto is using that are capable of running as diesel but also have the on-board infrastructure to have the potential to run the trains as EMU's when the electric infrastructures goes up along the line in the next few years.

..

Yes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electro-diesel_locomotive


These are common in the New York area - any Amtrak train pulling into Penn Station, even long-distance trains, needs to be on electric power, so Amtrak either swaps out the locomotive at an outlying station or uses a dual-mode locomotive the whole time.

The issue with electrifying Union Station is overhead clearance - the ceilings are too low for most overhead wire systems. You'd be forced to use overhead contact rail or 3rd rail, both of which have drawbacks.

I wonder if they could go hybrid in the same sense that cars do, with batteries recharged by the diesel engine. They don't need a particularly long range on battery, just the last couple of miles coming into the station would do the job. And I expect that there would be efficiency gains to be had from even a small storage system, by keeping the engines at their optimum revs better than an electric transmission without batteries.

^ Actually, such hybrid locomotives do exist... but the technology is still in its infancy. Right now, they are only used for small switching locomotives that don't need to haul huge loads or travel at speed for long distances.

The new Siemens locomotives coming online for Amtrak in the Midwest and the West Coast are actually hybrids, so possibly these can be run in all-electric mode while in Union Station and make a dent in emissions. Metra could also buy some in the future, although they have very little money to do so.

Hopefully this would be a temporary solution. Batteries could be reloaded on electric supply as well. They do that for light rail trains already.
I'm astonished at Siemens engineering such hybrid locomotives... Why?

@ardecila You know by heart the Paris subway is on 3rd rail. Why would it be any problem in this case?

Third rail systems are more dangerous than overhead wire. Union Station also has narrow, low level platforms, which means that someone could easily slip off the platform and get electrocuted on the third rail. Also, any kind of standing water will knock out the power to the third rail, so they'd have to upgrade the drainage systems.

Hybrid locomotives are probably the cheapest way to keep Union Station's air clean, and they can be folded into Metra's periodic locomotive replacement.

Amtrak's dual-modes only switch to electric for 10 minutes, right inside Penn Station:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GE_Genesis#P32AC-DM
NY Penn Station has high-level platforms, so people aren't walking across a third rail.

If I were designing an in-station power system now, I might look into the wireless induction charging systems now being rolled out for streetcars and buses. Airlines are testing out various auxiliary engines, or even EV tugs, to taxi planes between the runway and the gate.

^I can't figure out what the 10-minute limitation (noted in the Wikipedia article) would come from.

Diesel-electric locomotives are merely electric locomotives that carry a power plant around with them. So why would getting the motor current from a third-rail shoe rather than the generator bus need to be something only done for a few minutes at a time?

Predecessors of those special Genesis units were the dual-mode F units run for many years by the New Haven (and successors) that switched to third-rail shoes so they could shut off the diesels for the Grand Central approach. I never heard of any time limitations on those.

New aviation chief: Double-decker Blue Line could carry express train to O'Hare
 

http://chicago.suntimes.com/chicago-...train-to-ohare

WRITTEN BY BY FRAN SPIELMAN AND ROSALIND ROSSI POSTED: 06/25/2015, 12:01AM

An express train from downtown to O’Hare International Airport could be built on a second level of track above the CTA’s Blue Line, providing a first-of-its-kind “double-decker” service down the middle of the Kennedy Expressway, Chicago Aviation Commissioner Ginger Evans said Wednesday....

Any structural engineers here know the feasibility of building another set of tracks over the blue line (Ignoring the subway ceiling height)? Have there been any examples of "double decked" tracks in the world? The article said that it would be the first of its kind in the US.

^ Yes... several examples in New York, but they are 100-ish years old. (eg Queens Plaza)

In Chicago the airport express would probably go on the UP-NW tracks for most of the way, then run on a double deck above the Kennedy from Austin Ave west, like the AirTrain runs over the Van Wyck in Queens. As you might imagine this is very expensive to build.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/...WYCK-popup.jpg

It seems that I had forgotten that the Harvard station on the 'T' Red Line is a double decked subway stop.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ms_cropped.jpg
Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvard_(MBTA_station)

I don't normally post video game videos in the transit threads....but how realistic is Omsi 2 Chicago?

• Video Link

So... why again does the O'Hare express train have to be nonstop, and charge a premium fare with premium amenities? Having an express train integrated with the existing Blue line service would be a boon for NW side neighborhoods.

Imagine an express train that ran Clark-Division-Logan-JeffPark-OHare. To just add a glorified AirTrain service seems so shortsighted. It is going to cost an insane amount no matter what is done, but 20 years from now, what would be more beneficial?

OThatttitledreality;707wer7]So... why again does the O'Hare express train have to be nonstop, and charge a premium fare with premium amenities? Having an express train integrated with the existing Blue line service would be a boon for NW side neighborhoods.

Imagine an express train that ran Clark-Division-Logan-JeffPark-OHare. To just add a glorified AirTrain service seems so shortsighted. It is going to cost an insane amount no matter what is done, but 20 years from now, what would be more beneficial?[/QUOTE]

I agree. That very well might be the most ideal solution. But can that be done without delaying or interrupting regular blue line service? Even if passing tracks were built Would it still be feasible?

Posting this here so it doesn't get forgotten in the discussion....

In addition to the projects shown here (roughly $1B, all told) you can add the easing of sharp curves at Pacific Junction and Franklin Park Junction. Maybe a few more miles of triple track. That would enable fast service from Union Station to O'Hare in 25 minutes or so.

https://urbanelijk.files.wordpress.c...-phase-one.jpg

But if it takes an average of 10 minutes to get to Union Station, and another 10 minutes to get from "O'Hare Transit Center" to your actual terminal . . . .what's the point of all that speed in between? Your end-to-end time is exactly the same as the current Blue Line; probably less given the Blue Line's frequent departures.

"Phase Two tunnels"

^ Who cares? Serving O'Hare business travelers is only a secondary goal of Crossrail. The relevant point of comparison here is not with the existing Blue Line service, but with the fanciful Airport Express, double-decker Blue Line proposal the city is putting out. Like that proposal, Crossrail would also provide a faster ride to O'Hare for a similar capital cost, but it would also serve the Grand Ave corridor in the city with rapid transit and give South and West Siders a quick transit access to O'Hare area jobs.

I agree that the People Mover and transfer time is relevant, assuming the train terminates at the O'Hare Transfer and doesn't enter a costly new tunnel to access the terminals directly. However, I disagree that you need to factor in the time needed to access Union Station. That depends heavily on where the origin point is, and as we've seen previously, land use will shift fairly quickly based on transit options. Open an Airport Express train that calls at Union Station, and you'll see developers rush to open business hotels around (and on top of) the station. It's happening already, at a somewhat slower pace as older Class B buildings on Clark and LaSalle shift to hotel and the office tenants move to gleaming new towers along Wacker.

*cough* West Loop Transportation Center *cough*

That would have to be High Level platforms which raises some issues with Freight trains...

^Not much of a problem. There's very little freight on Metra Milw-W east of Franklin Park. If Crossrail doesn't have it's own high-speed tracks (likely, since we're talking about a fever-dream fantasy here), gauntlets could let the platforms sit three feet outside the freight car plate.

That's exactly the city's rationale for having a Blue Line Express. We don't want the employment center to keep shifting westward, where it's convenient only to suburban commuters. We want to reinforce the traditional center of the Loop.

Is there such a thing, or would it be possible to create Hybrid FRA Class I Compliant equipment that could operate in CTA's Subways? They could use Block 37 Downtown, connect up onto the UP NW Line with a link, and back onto the Blue Line at Austin to use the existing O'Hare Blue Line Terminal. (fever-dream)

But that's the thing. I've heard this point before, and I'm not sure I agree with it.

A - the "traditional center" of the Loop is a heavily restricted environment for growth. It's full of short but valuable landmarked buildings that don't satisfy modern office-tenant demands for large, open floorplans. Plus, the shopping and entertainment districts in that area suggest hotels as the highest and best use, and not office.

B - Chicago has had poor integration between local transit and regional/intercity rail for over a century. If you want to make a big, splashy investment to affect the locus of downtown growth, why would you favor a Blue Line Express to Block 37 over, say, a Clinton St Subway for the Red Line, the CCAC's Loop Connector, or even Crossrail?

Either of those plans would kill two birds with one stone, delivering city residents to West Loop jobs and connecting the city's transit network to Ogilvie and Union for the first time.

C (side point) - dispersing office uses through River North and West Loop, mixed in with residential, might enable more workers to live within walking distance of their jobs, and promote more 24/7 vitality. It also maximizes the effectiveness of transit service, since you have demand in all directions and not a strong inbound vs. outbound flow where you're running empty buses and trains in one direction.

Perhaps I'm being overly cynical and perhaps not. I don't think it has nearly as much to do with wanting to stymie any shift westward across the river or somehow being concerned that the Western Train Terminals aren't accessible to city commuters (they largely are and will likely be even more so in the future).

What is more likely is that the city wants to hold on to have full control of the tracks, trains, and revenue that would come from such a service. Not to let the state, Amtrak, or RTA have control and revenue control. It is the same basic story over the casino fight. The city wants to maximize control and revenue because all this region is good for is fiefdom infighting as opposed to what is comprehensive best choices and practices for the region.

.......On the issue about where the termination of such an express would end and if it is only worth doing if it there are new underground spurs built into the terminals. I think one other alternative that might make sense would be for there to be a spur above ground (much cheaper and complicated obviously) of 1.5 miles that would have an end/intermodal station at T1 where the ATA starts/ends. T1/T2/T3 stops are all less then 5 minutes from end to end within that segment and that is where 75% of O'Hare's passengers are going anyway.

The express train gets there in 20 minutes. The ATS gets 75% of their passengers in front of their check-in counters within 25 minutes or 30 minutes tops. This is the set-up the new Toronto model is using. Basically the new 15 mile train takes them to the a few hundred yards away from the terminals and there they transfer and the airport system takes them a few extra minutes/1/4 mile to the main 2 terminals. Seems sensible.

I certainly don't see how the physics could work out. What kind of object has the buff strength to avoid being crushed by a pair of freight locomotives, yet is light enough that it wouldn't crumple a CTA 3200?

Revenue? Revenue? What revenue? Any service like this will require public subsidy, and possibly PFC diversion as well. And that's just for the operating costs.

The purpose of the express is so that the rich don't have to deal with being on a train with the poor and middle class people who ride the Blue Line.

Oh brother:koko:

The purpose of an express is to keep Ohare and Chicago and Chicago CBD competitive on a global scale.

45 min is too long for point to point transit on a 16 mile run.

The choice between a Blue Line on steroids or the Cross Rail proposal is huge.

Cross Rail gives far more benefit to multiple modes and transit lines including the ability to beef up Chi-Milw Amtrak service,(A2 grade separation) Connecting Ohare to McMk, Adding a Metra UP extension to Wadsworth, Gurnee, Abbott and allowing more trains for reverse commute,(again A2 separation)
And Allowing Detroit, Indy and Champaign trains direct access to Ohare.

Obviously the Blue Line with double stack tracks and whatever infrastructure is needed would provide some benefits.

This is shaping up to be a tug of war that will probably have to be settled by CMAP. But recent press releases from CMAP seem to promote the Cross rail solution.

AFAIK the CTA should develop the Clinton Street subway project to further enhance connectivity to CUS and the existing el lines.

Well, the appearance of such, which really is the purpose.

I’m not going to argue with anything that gets us an A2 grade crossing, but that’s been on the almost-need-to-have list for a long time and already affects ~80,000 daily commuters, plus Hiawatha riders. The fact that there has to be a new, shiny service oriented towards conventioneers to get that funded (hypothetically) is dispiriting. The fact that a bunch of actually useful bits of regional rail modernization cannot get traction on their own does not give me confidence that future useful improvements will necessarily end up in be prioritized, and the fact that CrossRail apparently has serious competition from a plan to double-deck the Blue Line over the Kennedy does not inspire confidence in local decision-makers’ ability to say, “Maybe our priorities are off and we should reevaluate where the actual problems with our obviously decrepit infrastructure are” or even the milder, “Maybe we’re just following an idée fixe past any rational benefit/cost ratio.”

I agree with you on the ancillary benefits—however, I’m not confident that this will be an engine that allows those to happen.

I’m quite sure the airport service itself is very oversold—it’s far from most downtown destinations, so I’m sure a lot of people will still opt for one-seat private bus over a transfer at CUS, even if that ends up being slightly slower).

^ I agree with you that the priorities underlying the planning are seriously skewed.

On the other hand, I'm not sure how advocates can really influence the priorities, other than to push back against poorly-planned projects and support (or put forward) better ones. Organization before concrete is definitely the way to go, but good luck building public support around work-rule adjustments and governance changes.

It's pretty obvious that CrossRail can't happen without some serious overhaul of governance. Metra is controlled entirely by suburbanites who see no value in improving the service to city neighborhoods. CTA is controlled entirely by Rahm Emanuel who doesn't care one whit about the suburbs. Neither one wants to cede any control. RTA should be able to reconcile the two towards solving shared regional goals, but they are fundamentally weak and toothless. CMAP tries to do this as well, but all they can really do is prioritize the projects that CTA and Metra bring to them.

CREATE update
 

CREATE website has updated the Status Map 7/7/15

Most notable is the completion of the GS15a The Grade separation down at Torrance and 130rd Street.

At one time there was a cool video of the placement of the massive NICTD bridge over Torrance Ave and the NS rail line.