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-   -   CHICAGO: Transit Developments (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101657)

JK47 Feb 26, 2018 4:09 PM

http://www.chicagotribune.com/bluesk...225-story.html

Interesting story in the Trib about increasingly consistent evidence that confirms first hand experience, that ridehailing firms are increasing congestion and sapping traffic from mass transit.

Steely Dan Feb 26, 2018 4:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JK47 (Post 8099619)
http://www.chicagotribune.com/bluesk...225-story.html

Interesting story in the Trib about increasingly consistent evidence that confirms first hand experience, that ridehailing firms are increasing congestion and sapping traffic from mass transit.

interestingly enough, i believe the CTA's own train and bus tracker technology has also affected things, at least for me personally.

if i need to get somewhere and i check the app and the next bus is coming in 3 minutes, i'll simply wait for the bus and save some cash, but if the next bus isn't due for another 12 minutes (not at all uncommon for the CTA), then it's a quick "fuck that" with an automatic uber.

maru2501 Feb 26, 2018 5:42 PM

it's only going to get far worse in 5-10 years with more fully automated traffic

emathias Feb 26, 2018 7:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maru2501 (Post 8099751)
it's only going to get far worse in 5-10 years with more fully automated traffic

That's why taxation should be used to manage the problem, something like the solution I mentioned in my Crains Op-Ed piece.

Mr Downtown Feb 26, 2018 7:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhioGuy (Post 8099539)
Where would one enter from/exit to Dayton Street? Is The Vitamin Shoppe built over the former access point?

All Chicago's subway entrances were within the public right-of-way, meaning the stairway occupied part of the sidewalk on the east side of Dayton.

The only exception to the sidewalk entrance stairs for Chicago's Initial System of Subways was the North & Clybourn headhouse.

JK47 Feb 26, 2018 9:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown (Post 8099944)
All Chicago's subway entrances were within the public right-of-way, meaning the stairway occupied part of the sidewalk on the east side of Dayton.

The only exception to the sidewalk entrance stairs for Chicago's Initial System of Subways was the North & Clybourn headhouse.


I'd bet it's underneath the Divy station they have on the east side of Dayton.

rossguthrie Feb 27, 2018 3:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown (Post 8099944)
All Chicago's subway entrances were within the public right-of-way, meaning the stairway occupied part of the sidewalk on the east side of Dayton.

The only exception to the sidewalk entrance stairs for Chicago's Initial System of Subways was the North & Clybourn headhouse.

Do you know about the Grand Red Line stairs on the NE corner for Grand & State? I always think that this specific staircase is more typical of the MTA in NYC, the way it is inset into the building.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8916...7i13312!8i6656

PKDickman Feb 27, 2018 3:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rossguthrie (Post 8100474)
Do you know about the Grand Red Line stairs on the NE corner for Grand & State? I always think that this specific staircase is more typical of the MTA in NYC, the way it is inset into the building.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8916...7i13312!8i6656

That is still the public right of way and used to be in the middle of the sidewalk.
That building got a bonus for providing an arcade. This allowed the city to widen Grand, but the couldn't move the stairs.

ardecila Feb 27, 2018 4:37 PM

I don’t think that’s quite right. Grand doesn’t appear to have been widened. It looks like the Hilton Garden Inn building was constructed first with the arcade in 1999 (entirely on private property), then the station renovation began in 2007 and the CTA/CDOT took the opportunity to move the stair off-street. The CTA work was supposed to start in the late 90s but delayed for several years after design was completed, so there may have been some coordination in 1997-98 when the Hilton Garden Inn was being designed.

It’s possible the idea started with the developer, not city planners. Developers sometimes want to move subway entrances off-street, both to remove sidewalk obstructions and to provide a wider, more dignified CTA access for visitors. The “Kenect” development at Milwaukee/Grand includes a large niche in the facade that is reserved for a future CTA stair or escalator. Currently, it just provides a sheltered spot to wait for westbound buses... and obviously Marshall Fields provided a direct subway connection into their basement level back in the 1940s.

PKDickman Feb 27, 2018 6:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 8101042)
I don’t think that’s quite right. Grand doesn’t appear to have been widened. It looks like the Hilton Garden Inn building was constructed first with the arcade in 1999 (entirely on private property), then the station renovation began in 2007 and the CTA/CDOT took the opportunity to move the stair off-street. The CTA work was supposed to start in the late 90s but delayed for several years after design was completed, so there may have been some coordination in 1997-98 when the Hilton Garden Inn was being designed.

It’s possible the idea started with the developer, not city planners. Developers sometimes want to move subway entrances off-street, both to remove sidewalk obstructions and to provide a wider, more dignified CTA access for visitors. The “Kenect” development at Milwaukee/Grand includes a large niche in the facade that is reserved for a future CTA stair or escalator. Currently, it just provides a sheltered spot to wait for westbound buses... and obviously Marshall Fields provided a direct subway connection into their basement level back in the 1940s.

No, the stairs were always right where they are now. There were also aux exits on Ohio.
However, my terminology was wrong. They didn't widen the street, so much as narrow the sidewalk. Although the developer may have wanted that for their own circulation.
The developers granted the city an easement to the arcade (as well as one for a CTA elevator).
In any event, no one moved the stairs.

Edit: Forgive me, I was looking at the stairs across the street. These indeed are anomalous.
More info: the staircase was turned during the renovation.
Per Chicago-l.org,

On the northeast corner, the stairway was moved from its original location next to the curbline along Grand Avenue to underneath the eave of the highrise building on the corner, requiring the corridor in the mezzanine leading to that stair to be extended northeast by several feet. This freed up space on the sidewalk, but also made the stair less visible.

Mr Downtown Feb 27, 2018 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rossguthrie (Post 8100474)
Do you know about the Grand Red Line stairs on the NE corner for Grand & State?

Yes, and also the offstreet entries at 203 N LaSalle and Thompson Center, and at 1131 S State. But those were added many decades later.

Via Chicago Feb 27, 2018 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maru2501 (Post 8099751)
it's only going to get far worse in 5-10 years with more fully automated traffic

this is way more than 10 years off.

BVictor1 Mar 4, 2018 7:42 AM

03/03/18

95th Red Line
https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/ser...149300/enhance

jtown,man Mar 4, 2018 3:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emathias (Post 8099905)
That's why taxation should be used to manage the problem, something like the solution I mentioned in my Crains Op-Ed piece.

Why do so many people always jump to PUNISH people with taxes? How about we make our transit better. We reduce fares. Compete.

jtown,man Mar 4, 2018 3:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Via Chicago (Post 8101687)
this is way more than 10 years off.

This is probably the most stated thing on the site, maybe after Miami being underwater in __ years.

People have been talking about this on here non-stop for at least the last 2 years.

Busy Bee Mar 4, 2018 3:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtown,man (Post 8107128)
Why do so many people always jump to PUNISH people with taxes? How about we make our transit better. We reduce fares. Compete.

Because any reduction in fare price would be both ineffective in accomplishing increased ridership while having the added benefit of marching the transit authority towards insolvency as it would deplete the public subsidy just to maintain normal operations.

Not only that but you don't sell less nice leather couches by making the cheap plaid upholstered couch even cheaper. It has nothing to do with fares.

jtown,man Mar 4, 2018 3:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busy Bee (Post 8107139)
Because any reduction in fare price would be both ineffective in accomplishing increased ridership while having the added benefit of marching the transit authority towards insolvency as it would deplete the public subsidy just to maintain normal operations.

Not only that but you don't sell less nice leather couches by making the cheap plaid upholstered couch even cheaper. It has nothing to do with fares.

True to a point.

In a store, when products fail to sell, what do they do? They put them on sale at a discount rate.

In our cities, when transit numbers fall and revenue falls with it, what do they do? They do rate hikes.

If you are trying to get *more* people to ride, lower prices. Of course with our current situation, this could hurt the agency at first but could work out long term. Or hell, fund them better from the beginning.

Busy Bee Mar 4, 2018 4:35 PM

Show me the evidence that dropping the fare a quarter dollar would make a dent in transit ridership.

PKDickman Mar 4, 2018 5:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtown,man (Post 8107128)
Why do so many people always jump to PUNISH people with taxes? How about we make our transit better. We reduce fares. Compete.

Compete with what?
Private cars which probably cost city commuters $15 and suburban commuters $30 a day to to get to work and back?

Uber pool?
Despite all the press, the CTA is probably happy as a clam about Uber pool. Right now it takes congestion pressure, that they can ill afford to address, off of their backs. And they know that it won't last long. They're heavily subsidized by private investment while transit is subsidized by the taxpayer.

People don't avoid transit because it is too expensive.

ardecila Mar 4, 2018 8:37 PM

Yes, the efficiency of Uber Pool is terrible. You're paying a driver to cart around only 2-3 people at a time (instead of 80) on meandering, ever-changing routes across the city.

It can work, but not at transit-like prices. Uber is betting it can crush Lyft somehow, and then eventually raise fares using its newfound monopoly and loyal customer base.

The thing is, we don't know what percentage of Uber Pool rides are diverted from driving personal vehicles vs taking transit. People that have a car tend to use it unless they're headed to somewhere parking is very difficult or expensive (basically downtown, Wicker, Lakeview). People that take transit might be looking for an alternative that gets them there quicker and more comfortably. My guess is that the answer is a little more complex... I imagine lots of folks feel comfortable NOT owning a car precisely because Uber/Lyft is an option. On the other hand, there's also lots of people that purchased cars to become Uber/Lyft drivers, so it's hard to say.


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