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-   -   CHICAGO: Transit Developments (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101657)

Rizzo Mar 25, 2014 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicago_Forever (Post 6509804)
Of course such an incident is going to be broadcast all over the news, they always are. Especially if it happens in a place like O'hare. Also, I don't see what's so embarrassing. It's not like the system just fell apart or anything. The funny thing is, when I woke up this morning and saw the pictures on the news, I knew right away it had to be operator error. And just now while watching the news, they mentioned the operator confessing to falling asleep behind the switch. Nothing new here as these incidents happen all the time.

Btw, my two guesses were she was texting or sleeping.

It's embarrassing and you should really reconsider what you posted. Minor problems can happen....it's a big system. But trains should not crash at end of a line. Now the whole world is wondering why our trains can crash at their terminus and whether the CTA will be successful at correcting this serious problem so that passengers can have confidence in the system.

Via Chicago Mar 25, 2014 2:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hayward (Post 6510177)
Trains MUST be designed not to slam into the end bumper. Why speed wasn't automatically metered and then abruptly cut before impact is unbelievable to me.

There should be redundant measures. Mechanical and human checks and safety measures in the event an operator falls asleep, is not paying attention or has a heart attack. Similarly an alert operator can reliably stop a train even if the switches malfunction.

yea this is pretty troubling esp. when considering the driverless blue line train that went through two supposed failsafe switches last year

Chicago_Forever Mar 25, 2014 2:35 AM

^Yes, the driverless incident was embarrassing but like I said, a driver falling asleep at the switch is not something I'd consider embarrassing. We hear similar stories about these operators texting and falling asleep at the switch all the time. As a matter of fact, back in December of last yr one of NY's trains derailed killing 4 and injuring more 60 and the driver was also reported to be dozing off in that accident. We should just be thankful this happened really early in the morning, before the morning rush and that no one was killed or seriously injured.

Chi-Sky21 Mar 25, 2014 2:40 AM

What IS embarrassing is that we do not have sufficient systems to prevent something like this. Put some tracking chips in every car. If 2 pass by a sensor mounted near the entrance of a terminus too quickly, trigger autobreaking. There, problem solved.

ardecila Mar 25, 2014 2:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Via Chicago (Post 6510295)
yea this is pretty troubling esp. when considering the driverless blue line train that went through two supposed failsafe switches last year

Yes, these two incidents on the Blue Line have really made the CTA look bad.

On the other hand, we haven't had any accidents as deadly as the DC Metro. :shrug:

Rizzo Mar 25, 2014 7:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicago_Forever (Post 6510322)
^Yes, the driverless incident was embarrassing but like I said, a driver falling asleep at the switch is not something I'd consider embarrassing. We hear similar stories about these operators texting and falling asleep at the switch all the time. As a matter of fact, back in December of last yr one of NY's trains derailed killing 4 and injuring more 60 and the driver was also reported to be dozing off in that accident. We should just be thankful this happened really early in the morning, before the morning rush and that no one was killed or seriously injured.

The driver may be part of it, but do your really think human error could be the only factor responsible for this mess? I agree that human error is common but maybe we're not seeing the situation the same where I believe the majority of the blame is mechanical. Either these systems existed and didn't work, or don't exist and should have been in place at a critical piece of city infrastructure. A train crash at one of the busiest airports in North America does not help our image.

electricron Mar 25, 2014 7:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chi-Sky21 (Post 6510330)
What IS embarrassing is that we do not have sufficient systems to prevent something like this. Put some tracking chips in every car. If 2 pass by a sensor mounted near the entrance of a terminus too quickly, trigger autobreaking. There, problem solved.

Problem is only solved if the brakes are working properly. If not - you'll still have the crash. It's not always as simple as you think.

Chi-Sky21 Mar 25, 2014 2:01 PM

I was only trying to solve the driverless problem. Breaks are not my specialty. 8) My point is, it is high time some of these technologies are incorporated into these cars. Anyone know if the new cars CTA just purchased have any new safety systems like that?

N830MH Mar 25, 2014 5:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicago_Forever (Post 6510322)
^Yes, the driverless incident was embarrassing but like I said, a driver falling asleep at the switch is not something I'd consider embarrassing. We hear similar stories about these operators texting and falling asleep at the switch all the time. As a matter of fact, back in December of last yr one of NY's trains derailed killing 4 and injuring more 60 and the driver was also reported to be dozing off in that accident. We should just be thankful this happened really early in the morning, before the morning rush and that no one was killed or seriously injured.

Yeah, he can't be texting & driving. It's against the law. He is not allow to use texting during work hours. He should know better! He's breaking the law. Don't try to sleep on the job. He have to stay barely awake. What a shame! He have try to drink the coffee. It will help to stay awake.

left of center Mar 25, 2014 10:53 PM

Embarrassing. Honestly, things like this will continue to happen until the cars are upgraded with more safety features, and ultimately once driverless trains become the norm (which isn't too far off, as even driverless cars are only a decade or so away).

Randomguy34 Mar 25, 2014 11:18 PM

^I remember reading an article on how the MTA is currently testing driverless trains right now. Too bad I can't find the link for it anymore.

ardecila Mar 26, 2014 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by left of center (Post 6511706)
Embarrassing. Honestly, things like this will continue to happen until the cars are upgraded with more safety features, and ultimately once driverless trains become the norm (which isn't too far off, as even driverless cars are only a decade or so away).

It already is the norm. Most cities starting from scratch with a metro system are going automated. BART was one of the early adopters but in the last 15 years we've seen Copenhagen, Vancouver, Honolulu, etc all start driverless systems.

The challenge is in older systems with all sorts of weird idiosyncrasies, but Paris is one of the most eccentric metro systems and they're slowly converting.

CTA Gray Line Mar 26, 2014 4:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 6511871)
It already is the norm. Most cities starting from scratch with a metro system are going automated. BART was one of the early adopters but in the last 15 years we've seen Copenhagen, Vancouver, Honolulu, etc all start driverless systems.

The challenge is in older systems with all sorts of weird idiosyncrasies, but Paris is one of the most eccentric metro systems and they're slowly converting.


http://voices.suntimes.com/news/brea...re-derailment/

Nexis4Jersey Mar 26, 2014 5:33 AM

Video Link

Chi-Sky21 Mar 26, 2014 1:13 PM

Ok , i read in one of the articles these trains DO HAVE auto breaking/stopping systems for a terminus like this. Looks like they may need to look into that, pretty sure this is not how it is supposed to work!

chicagopcclcar1 Mar 28, 2014 5:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chi-Sky21 (Post 6512400)
Ok , i read in one of the articles these trains DO HAVE auto breaking/stopping systems for a terminus like this. Looks like they may need to look into that, pretty sure this is not how it is supposed to work!

Our CTA "L" cars/trains do definitely have auto braking/stopping systems for a terminus like this, and, on all main tracks systemwide.

At interlocking junctions where track switches cross, there are wayside signals with track trips that will stop a train that disobeys signals or the route is not correct.

The cab signal gives both a consideration of the track ahead and a speed limit and the operator has only 2.5 seconds to react or the train goes into emergency.

The control handle must be held down, if released, the train goes into emergency.

Unfortunately, no system is 100 percent. Our train evidently handled speed changes from 55 mph to 35 mph to 25 mph between the former station and O'Hare. The routes through switches, through two separate interlocking were lined. The "dead man" was not activated. There wasn't enough space to stop a 25 mph train.

CTA Gray Line Mar 29, 2014 4:35 AM

Blue Line operator worked extra hours before crash
 
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...,2087026.story


By Juan Perez Jr.
Tribune reporter
5:41 p.m. CDT, March 28, 2014

The operator of the CTA train that jumped a platform and climbed an escalator at O’Hare International Airport had worked many additional hours in the week before Monday’s crash, the rail union chief said today, saying the agency’s way of scheduling workers needs to be changed..........

N830MH Mar 29, 2014 5:32 AM

How those people to get it back to downtown Chicago? Is O'Hare station will be closed. They will take on shuttle bus to other station. O'Hare station will have to be fixed.

F1 Tommy Mar 29, 2014 2:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by N830MH (Post 6517325)
How those people to get it back to downtown Chicago? Is O'Hare station will be closed. They will take on shuttle bus to other station. O'Hare station will have to be fixed.


They will have to take a shuttle bus to the next station. We have not had that many delays due to this for passengers and workers so it must be working well.

Funny how the union releases information about the crash and when the city does the same to refute their information the union calls them out on it. She had 18 hours off before the shift with the crash according to the CTA. The driver it seems screwed up and should be fired even if mechanical problems also are found to have contributed after an investigation is completed. The driver caused the accident it seems and the safe guards failed. They could file criminal charges also if negligence is found just like they do with private companies(trucking, airlines ect).

chrisvfr800i Mar 29, 2014 3:34 PM

CTA trains have two independent braking systems: Dynamic Braking, which involves resistance from the electric motors, and "Track" braking, which involves brake pads pressing on the rails. Track brakes are an emergency system, and I'd remember it if they were used while you were riding. Neither of these systems are worth a crap if the motorman..(motorperson)..is sawing logs in the cab!!

Human error, as usual, is the cause here!


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