Is this a white flag on the international-style, long-seat configuration? Not that I have a preference either way.

If they want to better manage crowds on trains, the new articulated trains are best, but maybe Chicago's curves are too tight for that.

:shrug:

I don't see what's wrong with it.

If anything, I like that they've got their logo engraved in the concrete, gives it a sense of permanence. There isn't enough 'sense of permanance' in the way we do things enough these days, as it often was in the past...

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. That we all know. But as a graphic designer, I'm telling you it's bad.

Are there alternative designs for their logo? I'm pretty sure that has been the same logo I remember when I was a kid (90's).

Since the 80s. Nuff said.

It's not great, but it's just a company logo. Not sure how much better or worse it could be?

All they had to do was switch to some god-damn benches. As I have mentioned before, this is a huge step backwards.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi.../RATP_logo.png
Paris' city transit agency (this is an abstraction of Paris... circular city with squiggly river... plus a face looking skyward)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...n_logo.svg.png
Dutch Railways... conveys the motion of a two-track rail line, does not rely on text to convey meaning

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...enHft_logo.jpg
New Haven Railroad... prominent serifs conjure ties while the uprights of the letters resemble rails. note that this is subtle.

http://www.daylightsales.com/images/...0rail%2058.jpg
Illinois Central... letters spell "IC/ic" while also referencing the cross-section of a running rail.

For comparison:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...a_Logo.svg.png
The letters are fussy and inconsistent (each curve has a different radius, there are little points and tabs,varying widths, etc). The lowercase letters are set above the baseline, which is jarring. The letters have a slant - probably the designer's attempt to conjure motion - but it doesn't really work. The double underline is pretty awful, especially when the ends of the lines don't slant the same way as the letters.

The New Haven logo was arrived at after hundreds of crappy designs. The Metra logo was fashioned by some bored staffer in his basement.

all images courtesy of wikipedia

Are those better or worse examples!? Lol I guess these kinds of things don't bother me.

Third Chicago Airport
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...eotone-airport

Discussion moved from General Developments thread:

Capital cost of BRT is roughly a third of LRT cost. Per-mile costs of both types of systems vary wildly, and it’s really hard to find any comparison studies not done by advocates of one type of system or the other.

What surprises most people is that the operating costs are also much less for BRT, about 60% of LRT costs, on a place-mile* basis.

*A "place mile" is a passenger place (seated or standing) carried one mile.


Fairly impractical. The tunnels are only about 8 feet wide and the same height. So you could squeeze a Vancouver ALRT car through them, but it would be single-tracked. So westbound riders would be under Jackson and eastbound under Adams, or whatever. The existing turnouts have about an eight-foot radius, so any corners would require new excavation. Needless to say, there’s no ventilation, fire suppression, passenger escape stairways, or room for platforms. And of course, you’d have to kick out some of the ComEd and fiber-optic cables currently using the tunnels.

One of the mortal blows to the tunnels was when the Dearborn and State Street subways were built at the same level in the 1930s, cutting all the east-west tunnels as well as removing those two streets from the network.

http://i.imgur.com/vo1aNuN.jpg

The Metra identity & logo was done by Din & Pangrazio, a design & marketing firm in 1985
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1...tion-authority

Mods/admins: is there a way to get this thread to show up on http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/tags.php?tag=chicago

That's the page I come to now, and it seems to contain every Chicago-related thread on the board except this one.

But Metra's logo does need a refresh, just like pace did a few years ago. If you want to talk bad logos, how about IDOT's bizarre ligature party?

http://www2.illinois.gov/gov/green/P...mages/IDOT.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...symbol.svg.png
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...symbol.svg.png

Their graphic isn't the most pleasant either.

Yeah... the graphic seems to be a gordian knot, which I guess is appropriate for a big inefficient bureaucracy

LOL... proving that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I always liked IDOT's logo... we have complex webs of infrastructure in Illinois; I always just assumed that was an abstracted version of the weaving between various modes of transportation. It also pays homage to the Celtic heritage of Illinois politicians.

Never noticed the weird ligatures, though, and the gordian knot interpretation is equally apt.

Has construction started with the new Cermak green line station? I thought construction was going to start in June.

As a designer, I really dislike when other designers tell others what is "good" or "bad". There are certainly better ways to go about communicating why you may not like something.

No Cermak station construction yet.

Me too

Speaking of IDOT...

Concepts for the Eisenhower interchanges have been released formally.

Harlem
Austin is similar. Note the grade-separated bike path... this reminds me of I-66 in Arlington, VA with the Custis Trail. The decking is similar, too. I love the idea of building a bike superhighway in this area. Oak Park is just a little too far from the Loop to be a comfortable bike commute if the whole length is on-street...

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/3496/e9c.jpg

TOD Deck Concept
Shown for Austin, but could be built at Harlem, Oak Park, and/or Austin

http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/1935/poji.jpg

Mainline Concept for "The Avenues"
Designed to accommodate a busway or Blue Line extension with minimal fuss later on

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/5830/gair.jpg

As if pedestrian access to the Forest Park Blue wasn't inhospitable enough.

I think this is an improvement. There are other renderings showing a pretty substantial decorative fence, like the one on Roosevelt in the South Loop, with planter beds, street trees, and other things to break the wind and make the sidewalks more pleasant.

It's not ideal, but the TOD concept that goes along with it will improve things even further.

Also: CTA is considering some major changes to the Blue Line stations. Many of them involve widening platforms and revising the vertical access with elevators/escalators, removing or supplementing the long ramps (many of these ramps are not ADA-compliant). It's almost certain that the headhouses on the overpasses would also be replaced with more spacious facilities.

My contribution:

Get rid of the parking lots in the TOD deck concept. Retailers will almost immediately be tempted to place their store entrances at the lot, and CTA riders will have to "walk around back" to enter the store, defeating the whole purpose.

Maybe. I think these were largely envisioned as fast food/coffee/etc where shoplifting isn't as big of an issue, so the tenants can maintain two unsecured entrances.

Yes, retailers may try to close street entrances... but Oak Park can always write a two-entrance system into the zoning. With new technology like RFID tags, anti-shoplifting systems are becoming a lot cheaper. I think many retailers will even do this willingly; the front sidewalk is not just a sidewalk but a busy rail/bus station with many potential customers.

Its great to see the TOD concept. It would be especially appropriate at Oak Park Ave where there is no highway ramp. It would go a long way towards reconnecting the two halves of the small business district which has been bisected by the Ike.

Love the retail bridge/deck conecpt. Works great in Columbus, Ohio, where it was first tried out. One of the retail buildings is a high-end steakhouse, proof that high-end commercial uses can work in such a building. Visually completes the streetscape, improves pedestrian experience, adds potential ridership to the Blue Line, adds jobs right on top of transit and generates brand new tax revenue where none existed before. Its win-win on all fronts.

Is there a link for this concept images?

Oops, sorry.

i290 viz cag 16 boards.pdf (large PDF)

i290cag 16 presentation2013jul17071613final.pdf

I am sure that they must have something planned, but in the images there is a new CTA entrance on the East side of the street -- but no visible connection to the train platform (only the existing ramp up to the West side Headhouse).

The group of truckers discount furniture warehouses that want to prevent BRT on Ashland are meeting twice this month:

"www.saveashland.com

NO to Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) on Ashland Avenue
YES to Modern, Cost-Effective Bus Service on Ashland with Expanded Service to Andersonville

MEETINGS
Attend our next Coalition meeting this Friday 8/16 at 1p at First Baptist Congregational Church 1613 W. Washington Blvd. Please RSVP.

Attend the Ashland Avenue Meeting on Wednesday 8/28 at 6:30p at Orlando Glass and Trim 641 N. Ashland Ave. Please RSVP."

Might be a good meeting to attend.

This is from last week, but I thought it was worthwhile to post:

Chicago Says Goodbye to 40-Year-Old 'L' Rail Cars

Was there a particular reason why these cars were used on the blue line? With the narrow doors, it seems strange to use them on a line serving customers traveling to/from O'Hare with bulky luggage to squeeze on-board.

So... how's the Dan Ryan Red Line Rehab going? Is it still scheduled to be complete in 2 months?

Dan Ryan rehab on schedule.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3735/9...9652ee48_c.jpg
ctaweb on flickr

Why are they laying wood ties instead of concrete ties?
It seems if they are rebuilding the corridor down to the ballast level they should have considering using cheaper and longer life concrete ties.

Concrete ties are way more expensive to buy and install than wood, and they don't have as much benefit in a corridor with few to no curves that will see fewer trains.

The only reason that they are so prevalent in transit construction in spite of the cheapness of wood ties in the US is that the "new starts" funding process prioritizes enormous up-front expenditures (since a significant portion, up to 50 or even 80%, can come from the federal government) in order to achieve an absolute minimum in maintenance costs where 100% of the costs must be borne locally.

There is a reason the vast majority of freight railroads in the US use wood ties: in the long term, except where tracks are extremely curvy and/or traffic is very fast or heavy, the total lifecycle cost for wood is lower, even if they have to go through and selectively replace deteriorating ties several times during what would be the lifespan of a concrete tie.

Also, CTA has had bad experience with concrete ties, including the ones they tore out on this very line (an older two-block design).

The experience with concrete ties in the US has been mixed at best. Amtrak, Metro North, and New Jersey Transit have all put in concrete ties only to remove them a few years later.

Thanks to Mr. Downtown and to Orulz.....There is this idea among many people that concrete ties are automatically the best choice in all circumstances. Thanks to both of you for taking time to correct this misinformation. Concrete ties is not the answer in all situations.

The two piece French design that the city and the CTA experimented with in the 1960s is found today more in solid fixed-transitways rather than in ballasted track work. The city reimbursed the CTA for removal of the concrete ties and replacement with wood ties in the early 70s. There's still a stash of those ties in the CTA's 63rd St, lower yard.

DH

What about composite plastic ties? I understood they used exactly that type of tie for the track replacement in the Kennedy median a few years ago. It makes more sense IMO for a rail line that's built in a trench below the water table.

Speaking of track replacement - news about the ORD branch of the Blue Line.

Is this Groundhog Day or something? I thought we already went through all this and eliminated O'Hare branch Blue Line slow zones a year or two ago.


http://www.chicagobusiness.com/artic...ravel-to-ohare
CTA OKs work to speed up travel to O'Hare
August 15, 2013

...

The CTA board on Wednesday approved a $20.4 million contract for the Blue Line renewal project.

The project calls for improvements on stretches of the Blue Line where track conditions are so poor trains are unable to travel at top speeds of 55 mph. In some of those so-called "slow zones," trains must limit their speed to between 15 and 35 mph.

The work is expected to begin in the spring of 2014 and continue through the fall. ...

Regardless of the water table, outside of a severe flood situation you should never have ties resting in standing water. The ballast should drain well enough to clear the water away. Does the Dan Ryan flood often? (ever?)

Truth is that wood treated with creosote is actually a very durable material and stands up quite well to the elements.

The drainage was shot and the degraded limestone ballast trapped moisture, accelerating the deterioration of ties and other components. New storm drainage and granite ballast is being put in which should keep the ROW dry.

Sure seems like a known problem like drainage rebuilding should have been coordinated and carried out at the same time as the Dan Ryan rebuild. Would have been significantly cheaper I'd imagine. I know I know, you couldn't politically shut both the Ryan and the Red line down simultaneously, but ideally...

^ IIRC that's exactly what they're doing. Repairing the drainage system (basins, drain tile, fabric, pumps, etc) is a huge part of the current rebuild. It's one reason why they had to do a total shutdown; repairing the drainage system with active trains running would have been near-impossible.

Unless you're suggesting they should have done the current Red Line work 8 years ago when they rebuilt the Ryan? Forget politics, that's just foolish. Where is everyone supposed to go when 130000 ppl/hr of capacity (expressway & rail combined) is removed from the system?

I'm confused by this as well. When I lived in Chicago back in '07 - '09, I remember plenty of work being done on the O'Hare branch.

The O'Hare branch could be thought of as having four distinct parts: the Kennedy median, the subway at O'Hare Terminal, the Kimball Connector subway, and the Milwaukee Ave. elevated. The work announced this month is on the elevated structure along Milwaukee Ave. This portion has the most slow zones and has received only piece-meal work in the past. The major projects in years past that you're referring to involved the O'Hare branch north of the elevated. Today that stretch is still free of slow zones.

DH

Not all parts of the line were done. The majority of the work happened between Addison-O'Hare and in the Dearborn subway as I recall, with the worst being the extension between Jefferson Park and O'Hare due to the bad ties installed when it was built.

Metra is going to allow Ventra to be used on trains. Hopefully it can be used for Divvy next.

http://goo.gl/iV7HWp