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Beaudry Aug 12, 2013 10:23 AM


Originally Posted by ProphetM (Post 6228171)
No, it was never a park back then.
Bear with me, this may be a little long!

(truncated from orig post)

Here is a great shot of the whole area of Angel's Knoll, circa 1913. We've gone a little further west on 4th St., so the intersection of 4th & Olive is in the right foreground with 4th St. stretching east into the distance:
USC Digital Library

The future site of the Hotel Clark Garage/Center Garage is the empty lot on the corner, and the rather large house to the left of the lot. Next to the lot facing 4th is Hotel Antlers, not a very wide building but very deep, and then beyond that the brand new Black Building (ironically, looking very white). Traveling north on Olive from the corner, next to the big house is the Wales Apartments. Further up Olive on that side are individual houses (apparently still there in the 1953 photo). On the Hill St. side of the Angel's Knoll block, aside from the Black building, the rest of the area contains several low-rise commercial buildings and at least one small hotel - the Pembroke. I don't know if these were replaced before the Bunker Hill redevelopment. If not, then the back walls of these buildings are the ruins that remain today along the base of Angel's Knoll.

On the 1921 Baist Real Estate map, narrow Clay St. is shown halfway between Hill & Olive in this block, starting at 4th St. directly between the Antlers and the back of the Black building, but none of the pictures I found are from a proper angle to see it. The Baist map shows several buildings facing Clay, mostly houses so they're not really visible in the 1913 photo of the block, because of the bigger buildings around them.

The Prophet! Thanks much for your investigation of the knoll back in the day. May I add to the tale? This area has always fascinated me and this is precisely the kind of post I love to go off on...(those of y'all with short attention for the long winded should start scrolling ahead now...)

So here is the area in question:

specifically, this area --

---as it was in 1951.

Let's take a look at our beleaguered park area in 1906:

Here's a shot looking across its northern edge --

The place with the balconies is 350 S Olive (twenty-four rooms, and 50x95 feet, lost in 1919 when the Clark Garage is built). Note the Wales at 344. Interesting place; Thomas Bailey and his brother Wellesley were tireless fighters for the leper, and although Thomas is not as well-remembered in the history of the Mission to Lepers in India, he was its organizing secretary and traveled the world to spread the word. While in Los Angeles about 1896, he and his brother-in-law came to realize that beside all this Christian charity, a clever thing to do would be build apartments on Bunker Hill! So they did, putting up the Wales sometime ca. 1903.

The Wales not long before its demolition --

Now let's peer down 4th St:

There's the Hotel Antlers.

This is a largely unknown 1902 work by Robert Brown Young, architectural titan of the boom years. This was a commission by AJ Reithmueller; Young had already done two buildings for Reithmueller, the 1896 346-348 S Hill (AKA Engine Company #3) and the 1898 Hotel Aldine (right hand side of this image) at 326 S Hill.

Now, the Black Building at Hill and Fourth. More attention may get paid to its neighbor across the street, the Wright & Callender, because who in the name of hell tears down a giant 1905 Parkinson & Bergstrom? (BTW, you have to go buy the new Parkinson book!) Abraham Edelman is best remembered as using reinforced concrete in Harris Newmark's 1899 Blanchard Music & Art Bldg, and he built the first reinforced theater for Morosco, not to mention the twenty or so other major office buildings, schools, synagogues...but the Black Bldg, by Edelman & Barnett, was a 1911 Beaux-Arts wonder.

George and Julius Black erected this glazed-tiled, mahogany-paneled masterpiece on the site of the Cowper homestead; the papers at the time noted that the "shack" on the corner, where the pioneers of Los Angeles were still hunkered down, was an "eyesore" along this up-n-coming thoroughfare.

Now you see it -- (note the Mutual Garage in the far background):

Running along Hill St:
Look, it's the nascent Knoll...

(Note the Luckenbach Bldg in the distance in the upper image; also by Edelman & Barnett, 1910. Unadorned ultramodern and super important, but outside the scope of Angel's Knoll. Thought I'd mention it anyhow, and while I'm on the subject of demolished north-side-of-Hill-twixt-3rd-and-4th, the Ferguson Bldg, there behind the Luckenbach, was designed by George Wyman, the architect who did the Bradbury. Where people get this idea that he only did the Bradbury I'll never understand, especially since that myth has been debunked. He DID do the Tajo, which was awesome. But I digress.)

However, speaking of the aforementioned John Parkinson, two doors down from the Black Bldg at 349 South Hill, the Parkinson-designed University Club is erected in 1905. Later demo'd without so much as a thought.

Ah, but it's getting late. (And you're getting tired, no doubt.) I have a whole bunch of stuff to add about Clay Street between 4th and 3rd, as it ran right through Angel's Knoll, but that will have to wait!

JScott Aug 12, 2013 12:20 PM


GaylordWilshire Aug 12, 2013 1:35 PM


Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 6229163)
:previous: I have to agree with you Tetsu.
I wonder what was located atop the Hotel Green's round towers. The lighting is quite elegant; perhaps it's the ballroom.

below: I just came across this video featuring the iconic stack of Pacific Electric railcars. (the movie is unidentified)

click on the link above. (watch LARGE, it's amazing)

Great industrial scenery, ER. While there are a few PE Red Cars cars in the yard, the stacks seen are mostly LARy Yellow Cars. Of the two whose numbers I could see, 1219 didn't come up when looking for pictures of the cars in better days, but 1354 did:
Western & Melrose, June 13, 1947

Tourmaline Aug 12, 2013 3:43 PM


Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 6229163)
below: I just came across this video featuring the iconic stack of Pacific Electric railcars. (the movie is unidentified)

click on the link above. (watch LARGE, it's amazing)

The movie is "Hellbound" released in 1957, starring John Russell (of Lawman series fame).

JR on the far right with a few other "familiar" western players:twoguns:

Wig-Wag Aug 12, 2013 4:32 PM

Red Cars vs Yellow Cars,

ER, GW is quite correct about the cars seen in Hell Bound being former LARY cars, although by this time they were in the National City Lines colors (Green and Yellow) of Los Angeles Transit Lines. The You Tube poster is responsible for leading you astray with his title.

The scenes were shot at National Metals on Terminal Island. NM scrapped both PE and LARY/LATL Cars.

The cars shown are LARY Type H as seen in your post awhile back of the South Park Shops. At that time the cars were in Brown and Yellow.


Godzilla Aug 12, 2013 5:09 PM

Bridges, Terminal Island, Politics and Noir?

Some might argue that most tall structures in LA, accessible to the public, tend to have a noir connection. The Vincent Thomas bridge, opened in 1963, is probably no exception.

Assemblyman Vincent Thomas and the bridge bearing his name, in 1978.

Godzilla approved this post! ;)

GaylordWilshire Aug 12, 2013 7:12 PM

I dug up a few "Now" shots for a few more Los Angeles Railway/Transit Lines "Thens"... Also, thanks, Wig-Wag for clarifying the distinctions between the Yellow Car paint schemes.

Lake & 9th streets

Rampart & 6th... there is still a market in the same space

And my favorite: car 48th Street & Western Ave.... per the website's description: "...the Downtown Businessmens' Association annually paid to have one or more cars painted into this scheme at Christmas time. They were officially know as the 'Candy Can Cars'."

Vintage pics:

"Now" pics: Google Street View

Andys Aug 12, 2013 8:25 PM


Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 6226102)

I am so intrigued by the name 'Deadman Siphon'. Is anyone familiar with it's history? (all kinds of mysterious things come to mind)

Let me start by saying how much I've enjoyed this forum as a lurker. Being raised in LA, I'm thoroughly fastinated by the many posts, photos, and insightful commentaries. Though I'm somewhat keyboard challenged, I've come across a post to which I can contibute a snippet of knowlege.

As local lore has it, a man was found hanging from a tree in the canyon they subsequently named "Deadman Canyon." It has since been re-named "Bouquet Canyon"; a more appropriate name for a growing community a century later. You will read many references to the Deadman Canyon siphon, which runs through modern day Santa Clarita. This is of course part of the 233 mile long Los Angeles Aqueduct completed in 1913. There are many historical LA Aqueduct sites in and around Santa Clarita that few residents are aware of, though the most recognizable is the collapsed St. Francis dam site.



Tourmaline Aug 12, 2013 9:34 PM


Originally Posted by GaylordWilshire (Post 6229800)
I dug up a few "Now" shots for a few more Los Angeles Railway/Transit Lines "Thens"...
Lake & 9th streets

Hard to tell the original color scheme, but there is a certain similarity with some recent street car pictures and this former Buellton, California cafe. "Mullens Dining Cars." As noted, Mullens is a shell of its former self.

Chuckaluck Aug 12, 2013 10:03 PM

1925 Brand Blvd., San Fernando (Curious notice of private boulevard and speed limit.)

Chuckaluck Aug 12, 2013 10:41 PM

Summer by the shore.

Circa '39 - Topanga Beach Auto Court

"A Dusenberg owned by Jim Talmadge visible in foreground."

Pre '24?


gemnewt Aug 13, 2013 1:19 AM

Does anyone have photos of this area South Figueroa St.
& Exposition Blvd, Los Angeles, California 90007.
This area is directly across from the L.A. Sports Arena,
I tried Google and now the only thing I see are parking lots.
I'm doing research on my family history and I'm trying to tell
their story along with pictures of places they lived. My aunt Rose
lived in an apartment across from the Sports Arena and worked
down the road a ways at a Carl's Restaurant (not that one),
I've seen a photo of a Carl's Restaurant but I don't remember it
looking anything like that, does anyone no if there are any other
Carl's restaurant in this general area.
I remember during the Watts riots my mother was afraid for her
sister so she jumped in our car and drove from Glendale to L.A. to
pick her up. I know she worked at Carl's in the 50s and 60s. This is
all I know or remember. If anyone can help me I would greatly appreciate it.

Chuckaluck Aug 13, 2013 2:10 AM

Comalt Co., Inc., of Glendale raided by Glendale PD March, 22, 1928
(No address provided)

Ask for the special ginger ale?

Contraband confiscated from Comalt

Wig-Wag Aug 13, 2013 2:20 AM

Tourmaline, The former LARY cars seen in your Mullins Dining Cars postcard are Type B "Huntington Standards". They are seen in an intermediate LARY paint scheme of silver, from the bottom of the windows to the underside of the roof, a black belt rail, and yellow from the belt rail to the frame. To see a restored version of a car wearing this color scheme click this link:

To see other LARY and LATL color schemes select this link:

Mullin's Dining Cars in Buellton became the Cafe Dining Cars and had been out of business for over 15 years when the owner decided to develop the property. The cars were initially sold for a new restaurant project in Morro Bay. This project fell through and the cars were days away from being bulldozed on site when they were rescued by Karl Hovanitz and transported to his property in Arroyo Grande where they will once again be used for dining by the members of the 7-1/2 inch scale Bitter Creek Western miniature Railway. See:


ProphetM Aug 13, 2013 2:33 AM

Beaudry, great post on Angel's Knoll! Thanks for the great maps & pics.


RudyJK Aug 13, 2013 3:05 AM


Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 6228982)
Safeway meat counter, 1934

Los Angeles


The guy behind the counter looks remarkably current. I can see him doing 'well' in today's LA.

Tourmaline Aug 13, 2013 3:09 AM

Wig-Wag, thank you for the link and the good news. Glad there was enough worth salvaging! Surprised to learn one car dated to 1901, the other 1911, and both were used for LA public transit.

Sorry if these two images are off the noir path.

For the few who might have passing interest:


Tetsu Aug 13, 2013 4:04 AM


Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 6169295)

A while back, ethereal_reality posted about the original Busch Gardens in Pasadena, opened in 1906. I'm pretty sure no one else has covered this here - there are remnants of the gardens still in existence today.

The gardens were closed in 1938, subdivided, and homes were subsequently built on its site. Not everything was wiped away though. Take, for example, this stone post, which marks the entrance to the park's lower garden, still standing at Arroyo Boulevard and Busch Gardens Drive: Park Insider

Descending into the site of the 'sunken' gardens, you can find what at first appears to be a hollowed-out log, but is in fact a drinking fountain, made of concrete: Park Insider

A little 'then and now' with an old postcard showing a structure known as the "Mystic Hut," and its foundation which still remains on Busch Gardens Drive. Park Insider

And, what may be the coolest remnant of all, a Grecian pergola, incorporated into a modern-day home which still stands at 1025 S. Arroyo Boulevard. According to "A Guide To Architecture In Los Angeles & Southern California" by David Gebhard & Robert Winter, the pergola was "originally intended as a viewing point of the 'Camel's Hump' in the Arroyo." Park Insider

With the exception of the last tidbit from the Gebhard/Winter book, all of this information (not to mention the pictures) were taken from this great article at Theme Park Insider.

But wait, there's more...

There's an even bigger relic of the Busch family's mark on Pasadena still in existence. Specifically, the stables from the Busch Mansion, moved to its present location at 55 W. Arlington Drive: Vicuriously

There's still a mystery afoot, however. According to this article, the stables were moved to their current location in 1910 from 1021 S. Fair Oaks Avenue. While not far from the Busch property, that location would be distant enough to be well outside of the known borders. To give you an idea, here's a Google map: Map

The "A" marks the supposed original location of the stable, and you can see the Busch Gardens site at the left of the map. In the article about the stable, it does say there has been some confusion over whether or not the building was originally the stable for the Cravens estate or the Busch mansion. On the other hand, it's possible that the building's original location is what's actually being mistaken. Because, when you change the address from 1021 S. Fair Oaks to 1021 S. Orange Grove Boulevard, suddenly you're here, within the boundaries of the original Busch Gardens: Map

So what gives? Poked around a bit more and found an article which indicates that the Cravens mansion and the Busch mansion are actually one in the same - The Fredrick Roerhig-designed home was built by John S. Cravens in 1898 and purchased by Adolphus Busch around 1905. I have a feeling this is something some of you guys probably knew already - Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if one of you guys who posts here regularly runs the blog where I found the info. If so, :cheers: to you for helping solve the mystery.

rick m Aug 13, 2013 4:15 AM


Originally Posted by ProphetM (Post 6230349)
Beaudry, great post on Angel's Knoll! Thanks for the great maps & pics.


Kudos as well from me in No.Hwd - Can add details on 350 S.Olive's 3 floor balconied lodging- Built in mid to late 80s by Geo. Hazeltine and operated for heavy tourist clientele as The Porches. Was sold to an I. Harris in 1905--After my LAPL presentation in 2005- author/photographer Tom Zimmerman sent me two pre-1900 images of it from his personal collection - Tillie and Amelia sure must've enjoyed their California visit from the looks of it.

GaylordWilshire Aug 13, 2013 1:13 PM Street View

In my research on the houses of Wilshire Boulevard, I've discovered another survivor--3944, on the south side of the street facing north up Gramercy Place. It's the middle of the three houses on the left in the top picture above.

More here:

There are only a few of the 80-odd houses built along Wilshire west from MacArthur Park to Rossmore still standing on the boulevard. Another is also in the top picture here: 3974.

A third is in the next block west: 4016

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