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HossC Jul 22, 2022 8:54 PM


Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 9683084)

Here is fhammon's mystery hotel.

I agree, it does look like Los Angeles but I can't place.

This appears to be the hotel in question. I took this screengrab from a colorized version of the well-known 'A drive through 1940's Los Angeles' video. I think its address is 414/416 S Grand Avenue. In the 1920s, it seems to have been the Sinclair/St Clair Apartments. In the 1930s I found it as The Dorman furnished rooms. After that, 414 gets replaced by 416 S Grand Avenue in the CDs, with the 1942 CD showing the Lilac Apartment Hotel. The 1956 CD appears to list 416 S Grand Avenue as The Grand Avenue Hotel. The image below might show work being carried out, possibly to convert it from an apartment buiding to a hotel.

ethereal_reality Jul 22, 2022 9:03 PM


Excellent sleuthing, Hoss..... You da man.

HossC Jul 22, 2022 9:27 PM


Originally Posted by Mackerm (Post 9683359)

Water and Power Associates Original is on LAPL, but to me the Water & Power version is SLIGHTLY clearer.

This is driving me bats. I should be able to figure this out, but it ain't happening. I did work out that the small square sign has a Route 11 symbol.. Martin Turnbull recently posted this elsewhere.

I'm thinking that the northeastern end of the Figueroa Street Tunnels is just out of shot to the right, and that the Figueroa Street exit in the distance now has the Golden State Freeway passing over it. This theory is based on looking at the 1952 view at Historic Aerials (before the Golden State Freeway was built), but I was hoping to find ground level image to back me up. The search continues...

Mackerm Jul 23, 2022 12:55 AM


Wow, so the caption was telling the truth... This really is a view from Park Row street. The curse of the telephoto lens.


View from Park Row Street (or maybe Park Row Drive)

BillinGlendaleCA Jul 23, 2022 9:47 PM


Originally Posted by HossC (Post 9683522)
I'm thinking that the northeastern end of the Figueroa Street Tunnels is just out of shot to the right, and that the Figueroa Street exit in the distance now has the Golden State Freeway passing over it. This theory is based on looking at the 1952 view at Historic Aerials (before the Golden State Freeway was built), but I was hoping to find ground level image to back me up. The search continues...

It must be further south on the 110; past the tunnels, the 110 goes over the LA river. The topography looks like it's just before you get to the first tunnel.

ethereal_reality Jul 24, 2022 5:26 PM

This photograph was on eBay a few months back.

"Vtg 1964 Hotel Getting Knocked Down - Windward Ave. & Main St. - Venice Cal."

Many of you will recognize the building as the old Hotel Antler and, as you can see, the canal in front of the building has been filled in by this point in time.

Here's a closer look because that's what I do. :)

As a reminder for lurking newbies.

Days of yore.

During a flood in the 1930s. (1934 to be exact)


Martin Pal Jul 24, 2022 5:54 PM


The fact that there's a "plumbing" store in the above flood photograph made the photograph amusing to me!

ethereal_reality Jul 24, 2022 5:59 PM


Mr. and Mrs. Hemsley.


fullpower Jul 24, 2022 6:09 PM


Originally Posted by Martin Pal (Post 9684593)

The fact that there's a "plumbing" store in the above flood photograph made the photograph amusing to me!

I believe the house that was a plumbing store and also the hotel building are still with us

ethereal_reality Jul 24, 2022 6:21 PM

If I remember correctly a new building was built that paid 'homage' to the old hotel.


Here's the info. fullpower.


fhammon Jul 24, 2022 10:21 PM


Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 9683500)

Excellent sleuthing, Hoss..... You da man.

Ditto. Thank you so very much HossC. I love this place. I appreciate the people. So much heart.

fullpower Jul 25, 2022 4:24 AM


Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 9684606)
If I remember correctly a new building was built that paid 'homage' to the old hotel.


Here's the info. fullpower.


I stand corrected.

justfranc Jul 26, 2022 6:55 AM


Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 7564716)
re: I've been snooping around the property.


:previous: Hoss, I believe there might have been an additional building(s) up this small road. (shown below, red arrow at right)

It's about the width of a single lane road and the edges are smooth so it isn't a run-off channel or anything natural like that.

I've circled where the small path/road ends.

Here's a close-up. You can see at least one good sized foundation and another one that's half-hidden beneath a tree.
detail / google_aerial. NORTH is at left.

The other two prominent shapes look like solar panels to me.............................:previous:.

Then I thought, maybe this isn't on the same property as the Medical Planning Assoc; so I checked.

Yep, it's all one BIG property (outlined in blue below)

Malibu property boundaries here:

I realize it's no big deal, but it was fun exploring.

I don't think we'll ever know what used to be at the end of that lane.


Yes, you will know.

At the end of that lane, on that foundation, was a four-ish-car garage. There was a sign over the doors which read "Franc and Dan's Sometimes Autoworks". And sometimes they did.

"Dan", was Dan Logan, who had come up to 1601 Rambla Pacifico. the property's formal address, in the 1960s to work for Jim Moore's company, Medical Planning Associates. He started by making lunch and feeding the dogs. Over time Dan became an architect, like Jim, and was his protege.

By the time Jim retired, 15 or so years later; Daniel A. Logan had worked his way up to becoming the President of Medical Planning Associates; the company that occupied those buildings so beautifully photographed by Julius Schulman.

And he also became the sole owner of "Rockledge", the 15-acre property under those buildings. He also shared "Windcliff", the house you mentioned with the 13-car garage, (BTW - one space had a hydraulic lift and other tools and machines so a mechanic could come there to work on the cars rather than the other way around.)

And I'm surprised you didn't mention Windcliff having; from the upper bedroom windows; a view of the Pacific, including Catalina Island, on the West wall, a view of the SF Valley on the North wall AND a view of downtown Los Angeles and environs to the South and East. Unique.

It sat on ten acres contiguous with the huge property that was the top of that hill at an elevation of 2750 feet, making it, I believe, the highest point in all of Los Angeles. It was the Nike Missle Tracking site when the US Government leased the acreage from the owner, Jim's friend, John Hall.

As a favor to Jim, Windcliff was carved out of Hall's property as well ... There was a small seasonal lake on it, filled with catfish! These fish would bury themselves in the mud during the dry months and wait for rain when they miraculously came back to life! Windcliff was a unique property. Both Rockledge and Windcliff burned in the Malibu Fire of 1993.

In that garage at the end of the lane was a 1935 Bentley with its original UK license plates. It was a future restoration project. A 1953 Bentley had shared space until its completed restoration some years earlier. It was then given its own space in one of six cargo containers that had been placed around the property. Three were used as garages (the '53 Bentley, my 1964 MBZ 230SL and a restored 1971 Maserati Ghibli) The other three were used as storage and archives for MPA paperwork. Those are the other "pads" you see on the property; the one near the garage, under the tree. a couple where those solar panels are now.

On November 2, 1993, after 2-3 exhausting days of continually soaking the buildings with hoses, we felt like we were safe. It was calm. The fire was way across Carbon Canyon and seemed contained. I turned on my video camera to record it.

All of a sudden, the wind abruptly changed and came, incredibly strong, directly toward us. We tried to resist and continue wetting things down but suddenly the fire was behind us Dozens of embers caused the many pine and spruce trees surrounding the buildings to kind of explode and then briskly burst into flame. The heat felt like a huge oven door to hell had just opened. The police came running down the driveway screaming, "EVACUATE! NOW NOW! We figured we had to go. :runaway:

Having safely survived a few earlier fires before, we were overconfident and hadn't packed anything to save ... that morning, almost as a goof, I grabbed two pieces of art off the wall, saying, "well, if everything goes, we'll have these.", and threw them into the back seat of the Bentley. And that's exactly what we had. Everything burned in that very hot, (the Wolf stove melted!) horrible inferno.

We drove out of Rockledge in our 1980 Bentley, the '64 MBZ 230SL and the '53 Bentley. The newly restored Maserati, in its metal storage container, baked away leaving only a blackened frame. The '35 Bentley had to be left outside in the parking area ... near the propane tank ... it escaped totally unscathed!! It is still somewhere awaiting restoration.

We stopped about a quarter mile away and looked back. Rockledge was totally engulfed in flames at least a hundred feet high. I picked up my video camera which had been on since I was calmly going to shoot the fire across the canyon. Only fifteen minutes had elapsed. But life for me, for Dan, for Rockledge and for Medical Planning Associates ... had changed forever.

I hope that didn't get too boring; when I start writing I can't easily find an endpoint so I go on ... and on ... I'm Franc, the other name on the Sometimes Autoworks sign ... I'm also somewhere awaiting restoration

riichkay Jul 26, 2022 7:17 AM

I think we may have another faulty i.d. on our hands....

The site ( claims this is "Lincoln Blvd./Van Buren Ave., Los Angeles, 1953".....

There is indeed a Van Buren Ave., the street intersects Lincoln Blvd. on the west side of Lincoln only, on the east side it becomes Zanja St.....but this does not look like Lincoln Blvd. to me, the street does not seem wide enough, and trees are visible.....that part of Lincoln has always been basically treeless, from my recollection.

A companion photo....

I ran Quality Cafeteria and W.F. Novak Hardware in early/mid-'50's Yellow Pages, nothing turned up....I also ran the Bldg. and Safety historical permits for the Lincoln/Van Buren corner, and could not match up anything with these photos.

There's a sign on the side of the hardware store, "Elect Halvorson" maybe?.....I could find no reference to a "Halvorson" running for office in the city in '53.

On the auto seen in the first photo, that could be a Cal. yellow background plate, these were issued '47 through '50....

Here's the Lincoln/Van Buren corner....

GaylordWilshire Jul 26, 2022 11:05 AM


Way off--it may not look like it with the degradation of the the streetscape, but this is the nec of N. Snelling and Van Buren St. Paul MN

ethereal_reality Jul 26, 2022 4:42 PM

I could be wrong but I don't believe that we have seen this expansive (and amazing) photograph of the old Reliance-Majestic Studio at 4500 Sunset Boulevard.

It's from the July 1915 issue of Moving Picture World / New York, Chalmers Publishing Company.

And here's some info. from the mag.

The address 4500 Sunset Boulevard is adjacent to the Vista Theater, which still stands. (I can't remember if the studio was next door. .or across the street. .from the Vista)

Martin Pal Jul 27, 2022 5:40 PM

If the odd/even numbering system is the same as it was in 1915, 4500 Sunset would be south where the Vons market is now, so opposite (south west) of The Vista, which opened in 1923; coming up on it's 100th Anniversary.

Info below from this link:

4516 Sunset Blvd. (aka 4500 Sunset Blvd, aka 4534 Sunset Blvd.)

This parking lot and grocery store was the site of many historical studios.

Built in 1909 as Revier Laboratory (aka Fox Film Co., not to be confused with William Fox Film Corp.), then occupied by Kinemacolor Studios until they went out of business in 1913. Kinemacolor produced the first color motion pictures. In 1913 Mutual acquired the assets of Kinemacolor, including their Hollywood studio.

1914 LA County plot map shows ownership of the northern half under RH Chambers and shows several building on the lot

Taken over by Reliance (later Majestic-Reliance aka Triangle-Fine Arts-Griffith) in 1913, producing many of DW Griffith's early Hollywood films (after leaving Biograph in NY). Griffith's "Birth of a Nation" and "Intolerance" were shot here in 1914-16.

In 1918 Japanese actor Sessue Hayakawa (of Bridge on the River Kwai fame) took over for producing his own films, naming the lot Haworth Studio. He budgeted his films at $350,000 of which $200,000 were his salary. Quite a tidy sum for the late teens. He shut down in 1921.

In 1921 ownership passed to Gooden Studio Motion Pictures Films.(Arthur Gooden Productions). Tattenahm Productions also located here during this year.

It was a rental lot until 1927 when it became Tiffany-Stahl, becoming just Tiffany in 1932, and in 1934, California Tiffany. (Tiffany was founded in 1921 by movie star Mae Murray and director John M. Stahl. Stahl later took over the company and renamed the studio Tiffany-Stahl).
Monogram was based here for a time (circa 1931-1937).

In the later 30's it was taken over by Talisman who used it as a rental lot until 1943, with a brief stop in 1940 as a branch of Columbia, renaming it Sunset Studio and moving its Three Stooges unit here.

The studio burned down in the 1960s and a super market was built on the property.

ethereal_reality Jul 28, 2022 1:26 AM

Thanks for the information, Martin Pal.

I don't recall ever hearing about a Tiffany-Stahl Studios.

And yet, there it is! :)


ovens Jul 28, 2022 8:17 PM

thank you for looking Odinthor!!

I hike that trail quite a bit - its nice up there. I'll see if I can find any info about the Willacre estate.


Originally Posted by odinthor (Post 9673043)
ovens, I've been trying to make some progress on this, without success (perhaps others will have better luck).

All I can find is that the park (opened in 1982) was formed from the Wilacre estate, and so presumably the structures or foundations found there are those of the Wilacre family . . . on which family I don't seem to be able to find anything. Sigh.


ethereal_reality Jul 29, 2022 3:13 AM


There was an early film studio in Santa Monica?...:stunned:..(color me somewhat stunned)

The older building on the left looks vaguely familiar to me. If it's the building that I'm thinking of it's still standing. (could we have such good luck?)
The trouble is I don't recall where the building is located. Does anyone know what I'm talking about?...because I don't. haha

More. . .
I'm sorry for the parts that are cut off.

I'm surprised the article doesn't include the street address for the nascent studio. ...What's up with that? :shrug:

Last paragraph:

"The company has a ranch up in the mountains near the studio which is used for big outdoor sets and western frontier scenes.
It is wild and free from civilization within a few miles of the plant."

Did this "free from civilization" area in the mountains eventually become 'Inceville'?

Inquiring minds want to know. (well, I do, anyway)

Link to Moving Picture World, Here


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