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NYguy Jun 4, 2012 10:49 AM
NEW YORK | One Vanderbilt | 1,401 FT | 58 FLOORS
 
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...379690350.html

SL Green's Dreams of Development

http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/i...0603212953.jpg
Above, the block west of Grand Central Terminal where SL Green is planning to build a 1.2-million-square-foot office building.



http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/i...0603173604.jpg



By LAURA KUSISTO and ELIOT BROWN
June 3, 2012


Quote:
SL Green Realty Corp., SLG -3.61%New York's largest office building owner but a relatively untested developer of new buildings, has taken a step forward in its ambitious plans to build a trophy office tower across the street from Grand Central Terminal. SL Green has brought in one of the country's most prominent office developers, Hines of Houston, Texas, to act as a consultant on the 1.2 million-square-foot project. The team is in the preliminary stages of drawing up plans for the block-long site on Madison Avenue between 42nd and 43rd streets, according to people familiar with the matter.

...SL Green executives clearly want to move forward. According to the transcript of an investor conference in December, Edward Piccinich, SL Green's executive vice president of property management and construction, said the company plans to build "a spectacular trophy asset with designs inspiration from around the world," drawing on iconic modern towers such as the Burj Khalifa in Dubai and the International Commerce Centre tower in Hong Kong.

"I imagined how the lines and the curves of these designs will make a huge impact on the city skyline. I thought about how great it would be [to] construct one of these tower[s] over Grand Central Terminal," Mr. Piccinich said.

While SL Green owns more than 25 million square feet of office space in the city, most of its development experience has been with overhauling existing office buildings. Development of new buildings "is not in their DNA," says Michael Knott, an analyst at Green Street Advisors. "I don't think that they have an intention to dive headlong into ground-up development. It's more of a one-off, once-in-a-lifetime opportunity."

Hines, in contrast, is known for designing ambitious office towers with star architects, including Philip Johnson's Lipstick Building and the Skidmore, Owings & Merrill-designed 450 Lexington Ave. Indeed, fewer than five blocks away from the SL Green site, Hines has plans to build its own office tower overlooking Bryant Park.

SL Green's site would likely be included in a proposed rezoning of the area around Grand Central that would allow larger office buildings. The details of the rezoning haven't been settled.

The city is poised to see millions of square feet of new office space hit the market in the coming years, but much of it is at the World Trade Center and on the far west side. In the past two decades, there's been very little new construction in the Grand Central area, a highly desirable location because of its proximity to the commuting hub.That's, in part, because the current zoning makes it difficult for developers to build tall new office towers. "The fact that there's someone who's willing to build a modern office building [near Grand Central], that's sending a message that this will continue to be the most important business district in the city and around the world," says Steven Spinola, president of the Real Estate Board of New York.


The Grand Central area will have some pretty intersting developments in the next few years.


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babybackribs2314 Jun 4, 2012 12:56 PM
1.2 MSF isn't all that large for an office tower, and even with a 30% upzoning, 1.6 MSF isn't enormous either. Maybe 50 floors max?

hunser Jun 4, 2012 1:03 PM
^^ Yeah, looks like another 600 - 700 footer. :frog:

Hed Kandi Jun 4, 2012 1:40 PM
..

hunser Jun 4, 2012 4:19 PM
Accoring to Robert Walpole on SSC two pre- war buildings will have to make room for this tower. Also, the plot is apparently very small so this one could possibly break the 1,000ft mark.

NYguy Jun 4, 2012 4:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by babybackribs2314 (Post 5722202)
1.2 MSF isn't all that large for an office tower, and even with a 30% upzoning, 1.6 MSF isn't enormous either. Maybe 50 floors max?
You have to read between the lines here. Whatever they plan to develop, they plan it to be a signature tower that will change the skyline, and we still don't know exactly what the City will kick in for the sight, which is directly opposite (and above) Grand Central.


Quote:
SL Green's executive vice president of property management and construction, said the company plans to build "a spectacular trophy asset with designs inspiration from around the world," drawing on iconic modern towers such as the Burj Khalifa in Dubai and the International Commerce Centre tower in Hong Kong.

"I imagined how the lines and the curves of these designs will make a huge impact on the city skyline. I thought about how great it would be [to] construct one of these tower[s] over Grand Central Terminal," Mr. Piccinich said.....Development of new buildings "is not in their DNA," says Michael Knott, an analyst at Green Street Advisors. "I don't think that they have an intention to dive headlong into ground-up development. It's more of a one-off, once-in-a-lifetime opportunity."

I would expect something spectacular here. Another look at the area from google earth:


http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/143785310/original.jpg



http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/143785311/original.jpg



http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/143785313/original.jpg

NYguy Jun 4, 2012 5:00 PM
http://therealdeal.com/issues_articl...scraper-kings/

NYC’s skyscraper kings
A first-ever ranking of the firms with the richest Manhattan office portfolios — and the buildings that are throwing off the most cash for them

June 01, 2012
By Adam Pincus

Quote:
SL Green Realty
Total Manhattan office NOI: $790 million
Type of firm: REIT
Average income: $35 per square foot

SL Green has also been hard to ignore lately. The company currently has 34 buildings totaling 22.9 million square feet. A handful of those properties have been picked up in the last few years. The firm, which ranked No. 2 on the list with $790 million in total NOI, owns a broad collection of buildings spread throughout Manhattan. Its top-earning building is the 1.6 million-square-foot Times Square office tower 1515 Broadway, which is throwing off $70 million a year — more income than any other building in the firm’s New York portfolio, according to city records. And the building will remain a money-maker for years. That’s because the media behemoth Viacom signed the largest lease of the year — a renewal and expansion — in April, and is expected to occupy the entire building in coming years.

SL Green has been especially active buying and selling properties over the past year. For example, it unloaded 28 West 44th Street for $161 million in May 2011, and in December purchased 51 East 42nd Street, which is part of a potential 1.2 million-square-foot office development site on a small square block bounded by Madison and Vanderbilt avenues, and 42nd and 43rd streets.

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/143786119/original.jpg

Crawford Jun 4, 2012 5:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by babybackribs2314 (Post 5722202)
1.2 MSF isn't all that large for an office tower, and even with a 30% upzoning, 1.6 MSF isn't enormous either. Maybe 50 floors max?
The proposed upzoning would allow for a rough 50% increase in developable floor area.

This site is also eligible for Grand Central Terminal air rights transfer, which could be significant (though there are many other proposed towers that would want some of these air rights). There are over 1 million square feet of available air rights from Grand Central.

So you could very easily be talking about a 2 million square foot tower, like One Bryant Park. Perhaps significantly taller, even, because this is a much smaller footprint.

But this is all speculation at this point. I do like, however, the fact that they're referencing Burj Khalifa in Dubai and International Finance Center in Hong Kong. It looks like they want something soaring and iconic.

NYguy Jun 4, 2012 5:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 5722443)
But this is all speculation at this point. I do like, however, the fact that they're referencing Burj Khalifa in Dubai and International Finance Center in Hong Kong. It looks like they want something soaring and iconic.
This will be their one chance at building a signature tower from the ground up:

Quote:
"I don't think that they have an intention to dive headlong into ground-up development. It's more of a one-off, once-in-a-lifetime opportunity."
They want a tower that will mark it's presence strongly on the skyline, something becoming harder to do. Since there is little we know about what exactly the tower will look like, we just have to go with their words on this one. It's also possible some residential or hotel space could be thrown on top. With the City's hand in this, everything is possible.

Quote:
"I imagined how the lines and the curves of these designs will make a huge impact on the city skyline...." Mr. Piccinich said.
This is the third new office tower in the Park Ave/Grand Central district to keep an eye on.

Eidolon Jun 4, 2012 5:40 PM
Excellent!!! :banana:
We already know of 237 Park, 425 Park, 432 Park, 225 W57th and now a fifth supertall for midtown. Since this is such a prime location I'm certain that something interesting & tall will rise here.

NYguy Jun 4, 2012 8:10 PM
http://www.commercialobserver.com/20...l-development/

SL Green Eyes Grand Central Development

http://www.commercialobserver.com/fi...al-400x266.jpg


By Daniel Edward Rosen
June 4, 2012

Quote:
SL Green Realty Corp. is moving forward with its plans to develop a 1.2 million-square-foot office tower located directly across Grand Central Terminal, according to a Wall Street Journal report.

The block-long site, located on Madison Avenue between 42nd and 43rd streets, will be the real estate investment trust’s first major foray into developing an office tower. It will also bear the fruit of its active investment in that particular region: After it purchased 51 East 42nd Street –an 18-story, 142,000-square-foot building– in December 2001, SL Green now owns all of the buildings on East 42nd and East 43rd Streets bounded Madison and Vanderbilt Avenues. Other buildings include 317 Madison Avenue (which was acquired in 2001), along with 331 Madison Avenue and 48 East 43rd Street (both acquired in 2007).

It was also that same year that SL Green sold 110 East 42nd Street but retained the air rights to the building, with the option of transferring those rights over to the Madison block, said Edward Piccinich, a vice president of property management and construction for SL Green during an investor conference in December. As part of that deal, SL Green spent nearly $6 million in restoration work on 110 East 42nd Street, a landmarked building, after the REIT reached a deal with the city Landmarks Preservation Commission. SL Green also conducted a zoning lot merger on the block to help facilitate its plans for the new building.

“The total area following demolition will yield an acre of land to create our footprint to place our state-of-the-art structure in Manhattan,” Mr. Piccinich told investors.

Although no architect has been hired for the project, the design of the new office tower will hearken back to other “prestigious properties,” like the Burj in Dubai, Mori Tower in Tokyo, the ICC Tower in Hong Kong, the World Financial Center in Shanghai and the Petronas Towers.

I think its clear they intend to build a supertall skyscraper here. It's great location for it, both in the City and on the skyline.

NYguy Jun 4, 2012 9:35 PM
A little more on the project...

http://seekingalpha.com/article/3125...ent-transcript

Quote:
Edward V. Piccinich

The site is comprised of 4 distinct building lots on a single block with the Grand Central terminal being our direct neighbor to the east. In order to move forward with our concept of creating a signature tower, we performed a zoning lot merger on the block. The total area following demolition will yield an acre of land to create our footprint to place our state-of-the-art structure in Manhattan..... We've been able to capitalize in a significant amount of revenue by the phased assemblage of the block. Unlike a typical development site, instead of sitting on an empty lot, paying taxes and not generating revenue, we instead have maintained the building's occupancy and collected rent.

As part of the transfer, New York City will require us to perform improvements to MTA's pedestrian circulation. We are giving serious consideration to leveraging this requirement by creating a direct connection to Grand Central terminal. One huge advantage of our location is the proximity to one of the most significant transportation hubs in New York City, providing direct access to Metro-North and subways including the Times Square shuttle, the 4, 5, 6 and 7 trains. We also expect to potentially tie in 2 other ongoing projects; the 2nd Avenue subway, where transfer options are under evaluation, and the east side access, which will link the Long Island Railroad and New Jersey transit to Grand Central. This increase to the site will exponentially enhance the intrinsic value of this particular location. The connection we are considering would be an amenity that would allow someone coming into Grand Central to walk through an underground tunnel beneath Vanderbilt Avenue and arrive at our proposed building without ever having to step a foot outside.

So what's next? Some of the prestigious properties are considered as inspiration prior to us engaging a world-class architect, including the Burj in Dubai, Mori Tower in Tokyo, the ICC Tower in Hong Kong, the World Financial Center in Shanghai and the Petronas Towers.

I began building my itinerary and scheduling appointments to visit the buildings in order to perform full inspections of each of these properties. With each being revered for its own brand of uniqueness in terms of infrastructure, technology, environmental, sustainability, I felt I would be missing out if I didn't lay my eyes on all these modern marvels of wonder. So to fully appreciate the pioneering design and engineering features, I went to the Burj in Dubai where I had the opportunity to personally visit the spectacular gem. Upon my return from Dubai, my creative juices started flowing. I could begin even picturing each of my inspirations clearly. Although each have their own aesthetic, I imagine how the lines and the curves of these designs would make a huge impact on the city's skyline. I've thought about how great it would be to construct one of these behemoths, The Tower over Grand Central Terminal. So I reboarded back to [ph] my recent trip, and my upcoming itinerary to complete my tour of the remaining 4 buildings, which would take me out back to the Middle East and Asia.

...the final product will, of course, have to take into consideration such things as zoning, landmarks and community considerations. We expect our new tower will be more of a balance between these dynamic designs and something more traditional in keeping with the surrounding area, nothing Amanda Burton, City Planning or others would find objectionable. The ultimate end product will determine our analysis of market demand and our decision of what would be most ideal for the area, whether it be office, hotel, residential or mixed use. Evaluating our options at this point will allow us to construct a building that's best suited to leverage this prime location.

babybackribs2314 Jun 4, 2012 10:41 PM
If the interview is halfway accurate it sounds like they intend to build something 1,500'+ here.

Dac150 Jun 4, 2012 10:59 PM
This is very exciting and a lot to digest - I walk past there everyday.

sbarn Jun 4, 2012 11:09 PM
If they actually plan to build something "iconic" here (with a substantial roof height 1,500 ft +), then I'm on board. However I really do hate seeing historic office stock getting demolished.

scalziand Jun 5, 2012 12:14 AM
They oughta be able to wrangle another air right bonus out of the direct connection to Grand Central.

jd3189 Jun 5, 2012 12:24 AM
This zoning is really going to change the entire skyline.

Zapatan Jun 5, 2012 1:23 AM
How do they intend to build a building well over 1000 feet with only 1.2msf. I'm assuming they'll add more?

But anyway great news! Great location aswell.

Crawford Jun 5, 2012 12:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zapatan (Post 5723028)
How do they intend to build a building well over 1000 feet with only 1.2msf. I'm assuming they'll add more?
The 1.2 million square feet is the current "as of right".

The area is being signficantly upzoned, however, and there are considerable air rights available for purchase from Grand Central Terminal.

It also looks like they're planning a significant transit connection with Grand Central, and the various subway lines. If they invest in a major connection, they will likely get additional air rights (as with Vornado's planned 15 Penn Plaza tower).

NYguy Jun 5, 2012 1:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 5723390)
The area is being signficantly upzoned, however, and there are considerable air rights available for purchase from Grand Central Terminal.
And as was done with the Hudson Yards zoning, there will be varying FARs applied to the sites on the east side, though all rezoned sites would be capable of building larger than they currently are. Being literally at Grand Central's doorstep, I would expect a real push for a greater FAR here and at the Park Avenue Atrium. One thing Amanda Burden believes in is density. What better place to have it than around the city's transit centers.

With all of the new skyscraper developments being planned and built around the City, this is the first tower to take inspiration from the great towers around the world. For so long, New York's skyline has been an inspiration for others. They are basically saying, "Listen, it's time New York got back in the business of building bold, iconic skyscrapers just because." I'm all for it, and looking forward to the design process. Hines is on board, and in the past they went with Jean Nouvel's bolder alternative for the Torre Verre. Very excited for this one.

Duck From NY Jun 5, 2012 1:46 PM
I am not cool with tearing this building down. Surely there are some ugly 30-40 story boxes in the neighborhood that they could tear down instead.

NYguy Jun 5, 2012 2:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duck From NY (Post 5723438)
I am not cool with tearing this building down. Surely there are some ugly 30-40 story boxes in the neighborhood that they could tear down instead.
You'll have to learn that it's a living and thriving city. Buildings that aren't getting the best possible use (for both the site and the building) sometimes make way for better purposes. This site sits directly accross the street from Grand Central. In no sense should the city leave them standing because they're old, and nothing old should be touched. Nothing would ever get done, and they would be charing admission to enter "Manhattan, a museum of the City that was".

reencharles Jun 6, 2012 3:08 AM
Excellent news, I am very excited. This is a perfect place to build a super tall, even more for being next to the Metlife and close to Chrysler.

It seems they are thinking something impressive ... It would be awesome. I'll be in waiting and hoping for it to be built.

sbarn Jun 6, 2012 3:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duck From NY (Post 5723438)
I am not cool with tearing this building down. Surely there are some ugly 30-40 story boxes in the neighborhood that they could tear down instead.
I initially had that sentiment as well, then I came around to what NYguy said -- especially if they are (hopefully) planning to build something iconic. I think of it as an opportunity to build an Empire State State Building of the 21st Century.

Sidenote: I'd love someone to call for the replacement of that horrible Hyatt Hotel directly east of Grand Central Terminal.

skyhigh07 Jun 6, 2012 3:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYguy (Post 5723475)
You'll have to learn that it's a living and thriving city. Buildings that aren't getting the best possible use (for both the site and the building) sometimes make way for better purposes. This site sits directly accross the street from Grand Central. In no sense should the city leave them standing because they're old, and nothing old should be touched. Nothing would ever get done, and they would be charing admission to enter "Manhattan, a museum of the City that was".
The problem with that is that quite a few of the most livable and beautiful cities in the world have preserved their old buildings. There's a reason why Paris is generally deemed more aesthetically attractive than Hong Kong. Remember, there's more to a buidling than just it's height...

While I'm all for modern skyscrapers, it would be nice see this building built somewhere else in the city. In any case, I don't think present market conditions will fuel demand for another mega skyscraper anytime soon. Right now, it just seems like a very grandiose pipe dream.

Eidolon Jun 6, 2012 3:33 AM
Asuming that this site gets a 40% zoning upgrade and manages to purchase nearly all of the air rights above Grand Central (with a similar zoning upgrade) along with all the possible FAR bnefits, how tall would this thing be by roof height? To me it would almost certainly be taller than 432 Park, 1 WTC and 225 W57th, possibly even approaching 1,600 feet considerng the small lot that this tower will be built on.

/optimism

Roadcruiser1 Jun 6, 2012 4:01 AM
I hope whatever is built here looks similar to what I.M. Pei proposed back in the 50's.

http://archrecord.construction.com/i...11history3.jpg
• Video Link

Duck From NY Jun 6, 2012 4:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYguy (Post 5723475)
You'll have to learn that it's a living and thriving city.
-
No need to be condescending.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NYguy (Post 5723475)
Buildings that aren't getting the best possible use (for both the site and the building) sometimes make way for better purposes. This site sits directly accross the street from Grand Central. In no sense should the city leave them standing because they're old, and nothing old should be touched. Nothing would ever get done, and they would be charing admission to enter "Manhattan, a museum of the City that was".
-
I never said that nothing old should be touched. When there is a row of four story buildings with similar architecture, I don't mind if a few of them are torn down. What you're arguing is an extreme side of the debate, and it's that attitude, I think, that led to the destruction of Penn Station and the Singer Building. Hell, the World Building and the Manhattan Life Insurance Building were demolished because they wanted to extend the ramp of the Brooklyn Bridge. We're talking about architectural marvels that, in the aggregate, added a great deal to the image of the city.

Like I said, demolish some of the shorter ugly 50's-70's boxes instead.

Eidolon Jun 6, 2012 4:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duck From NY (Post 5724421)
We're talking about architectural marvels that, in the aggregate, added a great deal to the image of the city.
What is going to be demolished here is not an architectural marvel.

Duck From NY Jun 6, 2012 4:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eidolon (Post 5724431)
What is going to be demolished here is not an architectural marvel.
-
I'm not saying that it is, but Manhattan wouldn't be nearly as appealing if it didn't have pre-war skyscrapers flanking more modern buildings throughout the CBDs. The point I was making was about the attitude of being willing to let go of these buildings. New York City has a much higher ratio of pre-war to post-war skyscrapers than any other city on Earth, I see no reason to decrease our stock of these buildings. Like I said, tear down some of the smaller post-war boxes instead, the world has plenty of those to go around.

Zapatan Jun 6, 2012 4:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eidolon (Post 5724368)
Asuming that this site gets a 40% zoning upgrade and manages to purchase nearly all of the air rights above Grand Central (with a similar zoning upgrade) along with all the possible FAR bnefits, how tall would this thing be by roof height? To me it would almost certainly be taller than 432 Park, 1 WTC and 225 W57th, possibly even approaching 1,600 feet considerng the small lot that this tower will be built on.

/optimism
Hopefully the GiraSole and this can have a height battle :D

Eidolon Jun 6, 2012 5:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duck From NY (Post 5724446)
-
I'm not saying that it is, but Manhattan wouldn't be nearly as appealing if it didn't have pre-war skyscrapers flanking more modern buildings throughout the CBDs. The point I was making was about the attitude of being willing to let go of these buildings. New York City has a much higher ratio of pre-war to post-war skyscrapers than any other city on Earth, I see no reason to decrease our stock of these buildings. Like I said, tear down some of the smaller post-war boxes instead, the world has plenty of those to go around.
There really is no other option than tearing these old ones down and as much as I would like to see less appealing buidings in that area getting torn down instead, it won't happen because the location for this tower is excellent, the lot was presumably cheaper and is currently being underutilized in my opinion.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zapatan (Post 5724461)
Hopefully the GiraSole and this can have a height battle :D
This, The Girasole, 225 W57th, whatever is going to rise at the site opposite of One Hudson Yards (has the most air rights in the entire Hudson Boulevard area) and a whole lot of towers in Midtown and the Far West Side we don't even know about.
It's going to be an all out war :D

lakegz Jun 6, 2012 1:07 PM
This is very exciting news. I'm a little saddened to hear that they will have to raze a few pre-war buildings and I think this is only the beginning of what's to come in the area for the sake of progress.
But....to get another iconic tower in the very heart of the city right next to two of NY's crown jewels......hot damn is all I can say.
Interesting how they mentioned the Mori tower in Tokyo as inspiration. It is not even close to as tall as the other buildings mentioned and it is also a massive building that sits on several acres worth of land. This plot is on a small block so I'm wondering what's up with the Mori tower reference. I used to visit Tokyo every weekend and loved the Roppongi Hills complex and hope NY can get something similar but I just don't see it with this.

philvia Jun 6, 2012 2:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eidolon (Post 5724368)
Asuming that this site gets a 40% zoning upgrade and manages to purchase nearly all of the air rights above Grand Central (with a similar zoning upgrade) along with all the possible FAR bnefits, how tall would this thing be by roof height? To me it would almost certainly be taller than 432 Park, 1 WTC and 225 W57th, possibly even approaching 1,600 feet considerng the small lot that this tower will be built on.

/optimism
Ok I quickly came up with some basic numbers based off those assumptions.

Assuming 1.2 msf is as of right and a 40% zoning increase, the new as of right build-able square footage is 1.68 msf.
A quick search of available GCT air rights yielded between 1.2msf and 1.9msf. I used the 1.9msf figure... tack on an additional 40% and we have 2.66 msf to take from GCT.

Without factoring in bonuses for tranist connections, etc... the total square footage is 4.34msf.

According to google maps, the block is about 200x200ft or 40,000 SF which at 4.34msf gives us 109 floors if they build straight up.

Multiply by a standard office floor to floor height of ~13 ft and we have 1,417 ft high box. Keep in mind the owners are drawing inspiration from towers that "curve and soar" so a box is likely not in mind... expect something higher than 1,400ft.

/wild optimism

Crawford Jun 6, 2012 2:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by philvia (Post 5724690)
A quick search of available GCT air rights yielded between 1.2msf and 1.9msf. I used the 1.9msf figure... tack on an additional 40% and we have 2.66 msf to take from GCT.
A single project can't take 100% of GCT air rights. There are certain restrictions.

But they can certainly take a big chunk of those rights.

lakegz Jun 6, 2012 2:35 PM
I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night so this tower will rise to about 1,450 feet

Roadcruiser1 Jun 6, 2012 2:52 PM
1,450 feet was the exact height of the proposed building by I.M. Pei back in the 1950's at almost the same location. It would be interesting like I said if they used his design.

Zapatan Jun 6, 2012 4:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lakegz (Post 5724709)
I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night so this tower will rise to about 1,450 feet
wait...what? :shrug:

NYguy Jun 7, 2012 2:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyhigh07 (Post 5724361)
The problem with that is that quite a few of the most livable and beautiful cities in the world have preserved their old buildings. There's a reason why Paris is generally deemed more aesthetically attractive than Hong Kong. Remember, there's more to a buidling than just it's height....
Exactly, just as there is more to the point than preserving some just for the sake of preserving. The question to ask is do these buildings continue to function as the best use possible for that site in the heart of the best know business district in the world, next to one of the busiest transportation centers in the City, not is it deemed "more aesthetically attractive".

I have no such concerns about preserving these buildings. I could understand the concern for anyone who has never been to Manhattan, but it would be simply foolish for anyone who has to suggest it is at all in danger of losing it's old buildings. If we were talking about tearing down Grand Central, you'd have a different argument.


The largest building on site is 41 E. 42 (on right in photo). However, they could potentially use either of the addresses, such as 331 Madison (on left) or create something completely new. It's not that important at this point.


http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/143865961/large.jpg



http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/143865961/original.jpg



freddan212

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5107/5...0462b170_b.jpg

JSsocal Jun 7, 2012 2:57 AM
Fortunately, (correct me if I'm wrong), it looks like the building directly facing grand central will stay.

Also, the argument that we are just losing these one or two buildings shouldn't be looked at in this local scale. We are losing a pretty big wave of buildings here, forgive my absent mindedness but there have been 2 recent reclads of large prewar buildings on madison-avenue, the infamous reclad of 1775 Broadway, and destruction of the drake so far. Already in the Grand Central Terminal City there have been 2 reclads of beautiful old buildings, the Grand Hyatt (by trump in the late 80s), and the Bank of America office tower right across the street from this one (totally gutted like 25 years ago). Now there's talk of demolishing this pair of buildings, the destruction of the former MTA headquarters a couple blocks away, 15 Penn Plaza, 516 5th avenue, and now talk of rezoning eastern midtown?

It boggles my mind that so much fight is put in to save redundant row houses and single family homes in other parts of the city, when so many pre-war office towers and hotels are being put on the chopping block with no care given by anyone. New York must grow but there are already so many office proposals on the west side, (which by the way none have tenants yet) and yet we want to put more here as well? New York is gonna set itself up for a bust if so much space is allowed to come online at once in the next few years, and we will also manage to lose some really nice architecture in the process.

lakegz Jun 7, 2012 7:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zapatan (Post 5724812)
wait...what? :shrug:
sorry hehe just a reference to those silly Holiday Inn commercials played on US tv.

NYguy Jun 7, 2012 7:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSsocal (Post 5725631)
Fortunately, (correct me if I'm wrong), it looks like the building directly facing grand central will stay.
The entire block (it's a square block) will be cleared to make way for this development.


Quote:
Also, the argument that we are just losing these one or two buildings shouldn't be looked at in this local scale.
I won't even entertain that argument. If you ever walked the streets of Manhattan, more often than not, the blocks you see will resemble this:


writemeg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8154/7...3363cb94_h.jpg



But this discussion is leaning too much towards preservation, that issue is here:
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=178173


While a better understanding of what is happening is shown here...
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=197082

NYguy Jun 7, 2012 8:44 AM
Quote:
Edward V. Piccinich:

The site is comprised of 4 distinct building lots on a single block with the Grand Central terminal being our direct neighbor to the east. In order to move forward with our concept of creating a signature tower, we performed a zoning lot merger on the block. The total area following demolition will yield an acre of land to create our footprint to place our state-of-the-art structure in Manhattan.....

Some of the prestigious properties are considered as inspiration prior to us engaging a world-class architect, including the Burj in Dubai, Mori Tower in Tokyo, the ICC Tower in Hong Kong, the World Financial Center in Shanghai and the Petronas Towers. I began building my itinerary and scheduling appointments to visit the buildings in order to perform full inspections of each of these properties. With each being revered for its own brand of uniqueness in terms of infrastructure, technology, environmental, sustainability, I felt I would be missing out if I didn't lay my eyes on all these modern marvels of wonder. So to fully appreciate the pioneering design and engineering features, I went to the Burj in Dubai where I had the opportunity to personally visit the spectacular gem.

Upon my return from Dubai, my creative juices started flowing. I could begin even picturing each of my inspirations clearly. Although each have their own aesthetic, I imagine how the lines and the curves of these designs would make a huge impact on the city's skyline. I've thought about how great it would be to construct one of these behemoths, The Tower over Grand Central Terminal.


We can see the inspiration behind what is being developed here, not necessarily by design, but a modern tower that can transform the city's skyline, all but one a supertall.


Burj Khalifah
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7005/6...d9773ab8_z.jpg http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5029/5...999423c8_z.jpg
Taimur Laghari and Hamza Gazzaz


International Commerce Center
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7057/6...5db9c71e_z.jpg http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7218/7...9dd23b2b_z.jpg
detachedmind and lowell.ling


Mori Tower
http://farm1.staticflickr.com/50/137...233e6ef1_z.jpg http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2392/2...43be3f7f_z.jpg
a5am1 and mama knipst!


World Financial Center
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3292/3...b5d7139c_z.jpg http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7097/7...0ffe5752_z.jpg
Francesco Montalbano and cnmark


Petronas Towers
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7221/7...0bd99aa5_z.jpg http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8004/7...a6b0820a_z.jpg
Chris.g32 and friwi_wittke2007

hunser Jun 7, 2012 9:00 AM
^^ It's time to build a 2000 footer here. :yes:

Eidolon Jun 7, 2012 3:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hunser (Post 5725885)
^^ It's time to build a 2000 footer here. :yes:
Indeed. :yes:

Roadcruiser1 Jun 7, 2012 4:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hunser (Post 5725885)
^^ It's time to build a 2000 footer here. :yes:
Not enough air rights.

Sky88 Jun 7, 2012 4:43 PM
[QUOTE=It's time to build a 2000 footer here[/QUOTE]

Only the Miglin-Beitler Skyneedle tower (2000ft and 1.9msf) is good for this site, but i doubt that a 2000ft can be build here.

ChicagoSpire2000 Jun 7, 2012 4:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadcruiser1 (Post 5726162)
Not enough air rights.
What are the air rights? And what would that approximately be height wise for a site this size?

Roadcruiser1 Jun 7, 2012 5:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoSpire2000 (Post 5726215)
What are the air rights? And what would that approximately be height wise for a site this size?
The air rights limit the height you can build your building up to. The more air rights the taller the building, and the air rights for this building is only up to the 1,400 foot range so it is probably going to be somewhere around 1,400 feet tall. It would only be as tall as 432 Park Avenue.

DrNest Jun 7, 2012 5:46 PM
Very exciting news for NYC. I will eagerly await to see the design of what will be built here I certainly imagine the word "awesome" will be used upon seeing the rendering.


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