We'll see how Canada's R value fares when an additional 30% of the population can you know, go sit inside a restaurant for the first time in a year.

Unlike Europe or the US, Ontario is opening up in-door dining with 80% / 58% (12+) vaccinated with 1 dose / 2 doses.
If cases do go up, I can see the Ontario government making vaccines mandatory for a bunch of people, ie health works and attending high school and Universities,

Which is great, but there is still the remaining 20% that are going to enjoy the same increased freedoms as the rest of us and undoubtedly cases are going to rise among that group. As long as they don't overflow hospital beds the R value increasing past 1.0 shouldn't be a big deal.

we will see, but other provinces with equality high vaccination rates says the r value will still stay below 1.0. this would prove that 80% first dose for 12 and up is the level for herd immunity though

It's starting to happen in NYC. Some nightlife places require that you be vaccinated now to patronize, and some actually have bouncers check your Excelsior pass at the door.

What if you don't live in New York? I was just there a week or so ago and plan on going back a couple more times this year alone. Texas flat out refuses to issue a similar 'pass' and is actually passing legislation to ban business from requiring proof of vaccination.

That's so comical; Republicans always complain about "government overreach" yet they've been into legislating bans on abortion, gay marriage, etc. It just doesn't make any sense.

I went to a spa in Koreatown (Los Angeles) last week for a massage, and I had to show proof of vaccination to be allowed in. Thankfully I had a photo of my vax card on my phone, and they accepted that as proof. I think it's a smart idea, at least for places like clubs, gyms, spas, etc.

Follow the rules of the state you are in, and if there aren't any rules...then have fun. If you are gonna visit Yolo county in California please mask up! I could post the article, but some forumers might call it fear porn.
It's actually a warning from county authorities.

That's good to know; I haven't been to a K-spa in quite a while. I like getting the body scrubs, and I can't imagine the workers wearing masks in such a wet environment. And I can't imagine having to wear a mask while getting a body scrub.

Was your massage therapist wearing a mask?

You missed my point when you got sidetracked onto the rules tangent. Texas does not have a 'Lone Star' equivalent to an Excelsior pass. If I'm home visiting family or down in NYC, I would have no way of showing my proof of vaccination short of carrying my card around which is not recommended.

Btw, I think I'll pass on Yolo County.

Since it's a tangent, unfortunately, I'll have to say that Texas rules don't matter when you are visiting NY. You must sign up for a temp Excelsior pass.
Had it not been a tangent, then I'd have a nicer way to say it. I saw the point though, but all you have to do is sign up when you visit.
Fauci said that this might happen, that there would be localized mandates. Now that there are...pandoras box has been opened.
^that was being nice

Again, I am a Texas resident; it only applies to NY residents or people who were vaccinated in NYS. Plus it's voluntary, not a rule. No one in my family up there even bothered registering for one.

California has a digital QR code for proof of vaccination. Nobody has asked me for it yet, but I've got it if/when they do.

The way you describe it, it seems that it would just be residents. Either exempt with Texas ID or some sort of temp pass for travel.

In the European Union, we have a QR code as proof.
EU Digital COVID Certificate.

https://ec.europa.eu/info/live-work-...-the-data-safe

It also includes the Non EU countries but there are integrated with the Union like Switzerland, Norway, even Iceland.

The therapist was, yes. But I didn't wear one. I don't know if the people doing the scrubs were wearing them, but I agree that would be kind of crazy in such a wet environment.

Just take a picture of your vaccination card and keep it on your phone. :shrug:

So the one and only person I know in my circle of friends and family that has not been fully vaccinated, finally decided to get the jab. She went with Pfizer. From check-in to jab, it took all of 5 minutes of time plus the mandatory 15 minutes of waiting time post jab to make sure there aren't any medical issues.

Not that it matters, but this person is a female and an immigrant that is highly suspicious and cautious of anything being injected in her body. She waited, did her due diligence on the subject and came to the conclusion that the benefits of the vaccine outweigh the risks.

I do.

They're back! LA folks, hope y'all didn't burn your masks just yet as it looks like you'll need to don them on again. Feel free to thank your friendly neighborhood anti-vaxxers for making everyone else pay for it.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/l-county-...212235999.html

I burnt my remaining masks with coal and gasoline accelerants to kill off the disease before I threw the ashes of my masks in the storm drain. Thank God I don't live in LA!

(Just kidding) :D

So, let's unpack this.

First, the director of the Los Angeles County Department of Health Services told the local ABC affiliate yesterday that unvaccinated people now account for all COVID-19 hospitalizations at county-run hospitals.

Second, according to the LA Times, "local officials suspect that unvaccinated people have stopped wearing masks in indoor public settings and businesses, even though they’re still required to" and the new mask order “really is about making this a universal practice. It’s the easiest thing to do in terms of ensuring that we’re all protected, regardless of the risks that we have.”

So, yeah, the vaxxholes are entirely to blame for this--because they won't get vaccinated, they are the ones who are contracting and spreading COVID around the region, and they have also been compounding their selfish irresponsibility by also violating the rules that require them to mask up. They are the reason we cannot go back to normal life, and going forward, they deserve whatever they get from the rest of us.

I think it is, at long last, time for a county-wide Airplane Slap Line:

• Video Link

For those who think deaths have been decoupled from cases and were using UK as an example.
Daily UK deaths have gone up nearly 6X since June 1

https://i.postimg.cc/5NwQbyZj/corona...xplorer-48.png

I never stopped wearing mine when I go indoors, so it’s not a big deal for me. Also we are still required to wear them at work, although I see lots of people not wearing a mask. It usually in the units where thankfully I don’t work in. I’m not surprised but today one of the units had to be quarantined.

I'm not surprised either. I think you mentioned before you were in the Custody services industry, and I was intrigued to hear that at least here locally, many of the Custody workers like guards declined to get vaccinated, so there's probably a lot of crossover between folks not getting vaccinated and not wearing masks, and thus resulting in viral spread.

Precisely.

What’s disturbing about the LA situation is not an unusual degree of hostility to vaccines, although I wish the vax rates were higher, but the fact that the horrendous spread of covid last winter isn’t helping them as much as I hoped it would. The virus was so prevalent in LA in January I would expect a lot of unvaccinated Angelenos would have natural immunity anyway.

This shouldn’t surprise anyone, least of all local government officials. I’ve been saying from months ago when “the Great Reopening” began to be contemplated that as soon as masks became non-required for the vaccinated and people could get into stores and restaurants and other indoor places without them, the vaccine refuseniks would simply lie about their status which is why I’ve continued to rigorously wear a mask indoors even though, as has been said 1000 times now, it’s really more important that the people around you wear one than it is that you wear one itself because what masks are supposed to do is block the expulsion of virus-containing aerosols, not filter them out of inspired air.

If only the US would follow France and mandate vaccination for basically all indoor public activity and create a counterfeit-resistant proof of vaccination. I’m hoping once the FDA gets off its fanny and fully approves the vaccines—Scott Gottlieb said tonight he expects that around the end of August—maybe California and other blue states might do something along those lines themselves.

More good news for Canada

No COVID-19-related deaths in Quebec in a week

"MONTREAL -- Quebec has not recorded a single death related to COVID-19 in over a week, according to data provided by the Institut national de santé publique du Québec (INSPQ).
The last registered death was on July 6 in a private seniors' home (RPA). Four deaths have so far been recorded this month. However, deaths can sometimes be added by health officials during 'data catch-ups.'"

Masks may have slowed the spread but even wearing them full time you would imagine the unvaccinated would still catch it eventually as things fully re-open. I believe you suggested in a previous thread it's best if it just rips through the unvaccinated right away to build herd immunity? Seems like it may be better instead of staggering potential variant factories over time.

Yes, I did say that and I’m crossing my fingers that this summer’s surge could see covid burn itself out, infecting such a large proportion of those who won’t get vaccinated that there are few susceptibles left. But the thing that has me most concerned is that the virus we will all be immune to could change enough to render that immunity ineffective and, while we could quickly develop new vaccines, our cumbersome process for approving them will allow a whole new pandemic before they could be widely used.

I expect the Ontario government to pretty much put us back in lockdown if someone who was vaccinated ends up in the hospital. If I was in certain jurisdictions of the U.S. I would probably be hoping for the rapid natural herd immunity option. Here I dont think they would ever sustain a reopening long enough to get the unvaccinated natural immunity, the case numbers would be too high.

The fact that we have a universal health system means that a provincial government will be the one to blame if hospitals can not handle a big outbreak. So it's in the government's interest that Ontarians are as healthy as possible. if we had a two tiered healthcare system the government would have less need in keeping Ontarians healthy. As a result, provincial governments have to act more responsibly than American states. That's why no matter which provincial party is in power they have all acted more or less responsibly when dealing with covid in my opinion.

The question of what is "responsible" behavior is still a very open one in my opinion. We still have the Swedish approach (no lockdowns, no mandates, just a lot of advice), the Australian approach (try to keep it out with isolation of all incomers to the country and vigorous contact tracing) and what I'll call the British/European approach of strict lockdowns, business closures and the rest.

And in deciding what's most responsible, it's necessary to consider the economic effects and related effects on mental health, suicide rates, poverty, long-term educational effects on children and much more. In general during this pandemic in the developed world, the rich have gotten richer, the middle class has mostly done OK and the poor have survived on massive government benefits which may themselves have long-term consequences on inflation and, as interest rates rise, a negative impact on the ability of governments to both service debt and keep up needed current spending.

I am of the opinion that lockdowns are bad, forced business closures are mostly bad (however whenever possible the outdoor conduct of service businesses should replace indoor activity) but mandatory masks and distancing are good. And now that we have the vaccines, mandatory exclusion of the unvaccinated from indoor public spaces is good. I also think that closure of borders to places where new variants have arisen is good (at least until vaccine effectiveness toward them can be determined) and so is mandatory isolation (and/or testing) of new arrivals. In the case of the US and Europe, this would require much better control of the southern border and coastlines.

Canada is in a better state than the Europeans, Americans and Australians right now so i think Canadian governments win on being responsible.

Well I think I speak for both Canadians and Americans when I say... at least we're not the French!

We don't need no education
We don't need no thought control
No COVID vaccines in the deltoid
Fauci, leave them kids alone

Hey! Fauci! Leave them kids alone!

French police fire tear gas as anti-vaccine protest turns violent
Demonstrators, many of them unmasked, are unhappy with vaccination mandate for health workers and health pass to enter public places.

Will be funny to see how much the threat of no cafes can increase French vaccination rates.

^^^

All they need to do is not sell cigarettes to the French unless they can provide a vaccination card as proof and you will see shots in arms the minute nicotine cravings hit, so in about 30 minutes. Will be the single biggest day jump in the history of vaccines.

Apparently it worked!

Just as a FYI, Canada and the US are both sitting at 48% fully vaccinated. France is at 40%.

However, for first dose, Canada is at 70%, the US is at 56%, and France at 54%. Coupled with the rise in hospitalizations and deaths, the outlook looks bleak for the US again. The beginning of another... surge.

The real question is, how many hospitalizations and deaths (99% of which are occurring in unvaccinated people) are health officials and politicians willing to live with before lockdown measures are implemented again? Hopefully this time they'll just lock down unvaccinated folks via use of mandates for proof of vaccination.

Canada isn't winning diddly shit.

Once again, you are focused entirely on COVID, and have not addressed the other harmful affects of lockdowns. Until you do so, none of the graphs showing how Canada is keeping common cold case rates lower than the US mean anything.

Yay, fewer Canadians have a runny nose and cough than Americans. Yay.

Oh, and America gets 10000000000 points for sending a highly effective vaccine to your arctic asses. You're welcome. :D

I am fully vaccinated (2 doses) and is everyone in my family and my entourage. I won't take another lockdown sitting down if it's just because of people who didn't get vaccinated. (Exceptions can be made for those who have medical conditions that make them allergic to vaccines for example. But they're not the problem right now, and are only a tiny minority.)

Pretty sure I am not the only person who feels this way.

I think at most we would see the type of "lockdown" that is happening in France where you need a health pass to enter indoor places, something I would be in support of, since it's the unvaccinated nincompoops that are really the ones dragging us down at this point.

:tup:

Yeah, the foundations of that are already in place where I live. You automatically get a QR code thingy by email after each dose here.

I'm in support of this too. The unvaccinated are the ones that really are dragging us down.

It's proof that the honor system doesn't work. The stores/restaurants I go to that have signs that say that you only need to wear a mask if you are not fully vaccinated, the businesses that don't even have those signs... I'm VERY SURE that not all the unmasked customers in these businesses are fully vaccinated. Unvaccinated people have been free to go about without wearing masks, spreading this illness to other unvaccinated people. There are the people who outright just don't wanna get vaccinated, and then there are the people who can't---they're allergic to the vaccine, and then there are the underage kids who aren't allowed to get vaccinated. It's sad, really, that this is still spreading. At this point, IMO, this is a totally preventable illness, but because of some selfish people, we in LA County now must all wear masks again indoors in public.

And it's no coincidence that our COVID numbers started rising again after California lifted the restrictions on business capacity limits and masking. DUH.

According to a recent news story I read, there are about 4 million unvaccinated residents in LA County. That's just RESIDENTS, let alone the possibly unvaccinated people who live outside LA County that work in LA County or come in for recreation. I know of two Trumpers at work who refuse to be vaccinated and live in the Inland Empire. Another Trumper lives in the Antelope Valley (in LA County) and also refuses to get vaccinated. This morning he was talking to someone in the hall and complaining about having to wear masks again in LA County, he said "It's proof that the vaccines aren't working!" I wanted to butt into the conversation and say "NO, it's proof that the honor system isn't working."

^ Agreed, but some of you guys need to get over this axe grinding about Trumpers.

If you really care about vaccination, you have to acknowledge that vaccination rates are also relatively poor in the Hispanic & African American communities, as well as people in their 20s. Yes, the Trumpers are also bad, but perhaps it would help if we actually acknowledged who is refusing vaccination so that we can focus our efforts?

I've been fully vaccinated since the end of March and and I think I might have even had a light bout with Covid since then but constantly bagging on the unvaccinated is just another front in the culture war...with this 'us v. them' bullshit. If you are vaccinated, you're fine and if you're immunocompromised (and vaxxed) you should be proactive regardless of who you're around. The unvaxxed are the ones playing Russian-Roulette with their well being and I haven't worn a mask in almost three months except to fly.

Yeah, if vaxxed people really want to encourage everyone to get vaxxed then they should lay off the finger wagging.

I don’t support the idea as a health pass. It’s an invasion of privacy, an unprecedented curtailment of individual liberty, and an enormous pain in the ass for businesses.

What about just popping your head into a shop or bar, then walking out, which is something we used to do all the time? Now you need to wait for an employee to be free to come check you in? F that.

The milestone we needed to hit was universal vaccine availability. If you want to protect yourself you can. And really not even for everyone - the fact that 20-somethings and teenagers haven’t been given the vaccine yet in Europe is a non-issue. Vulnerable people have all had the opportunity to get both shots in most of the countries we are talking about (the US, Canada, UK, most of Europe). Life shouldn’t be limited to keep teenagers or the wilfully unvaccinated from getting Covid (even if many of the latter do die).