So you would rather wear mercedes emblems around your neck with girl pants and drink PBR on roosevelt row? You think thats so much better?

ok, from that last statement it does indeed appear that there is no heavenly clue inside your head that constitutes that subculture. Not surprising since 97% of your post constitute wild generalizations and blanket bigotry. That's quite ok, I don't blame you ... I just blame your manifested ignorance.

Short of derailing page whatever this is, lets discuss another city in a similar renaissance period as Phoenix; that is, Fort Worth, TX.

For many many years, it was the podunk sister city to Big D, being bypassed for interesting projects, entertainment options, art, music, you name it. A similar comparison -- although geographically a stretch -- is that Phoenix was Ft Worth to LA's Dallas.

But about 15 years ago, Sundance Square in DT Ft Worth was re-branded in such a strikingly similar fashion to DT Phoenix, that its almost a free template for PHX to run with. All the sudden hotels, condos, apts, lofts, restaurants, shops, museums, bars, clubs, concert venues, movie theaters, and performing art centers sprung up within a 10 X 10 block radius.

Is this starting to sound relevant?

Here is a short list of existing businesses within Sundance Square:
Fred's
Pour House
Tillman's
Angelo's
H3
La Famila
Reata
Love Shack
White Elephant
JJ's Oyster Bar
El Asardo
Brownstone
Michael's
Tacoheads
Basement Bar
8.0
Wild Rooster
VIP
Lonesome Dove (Tim Love's restaurant)
Terra
Reatta
Caravan
Lambert's
Capital Bar
Delaney's
Lola's
Mule Pub

This is not to even mention the generally huge snub ESPN gave to J. Jones by setting up shop in FTW.

What is the difference there, as opposed to, say an entertainment Dist with Hooter's, Hard Rock, TGI, and Arrogant Butcher?

You know. I dont have to tell you.

Ft Worth needs to be looked at very meticulously by PHX developers, planners, and enthusiast in order to promote organic development. No, not even JSED is organic.

Roosevelt Row is a gem and a scene that should be fostered. Not for the Hipsters and not BECAUSE of the Hipsters -- but because its not contrived. More attention needs to be focused there and outward IMO. The formerly named Copper Square is completely secondary, IMO.

Anything built in Phoenix's core will have to be contrived. They spent decades tearing down old buildings and are still doing so today. If they want new businesses, places will have to built to house them. Thats just the way it is. Lately though it seEms every business that opens in any sort of historic building becomes over run with men in girl pants, trucker hats, fake eyeglasses, ironic shirts and bad facial hair. They bring in girls that look like they don't shower or wash their hair, and everyone is ordering some ironicay bad beer that they think nobody else is cool enough to unsderstand. Watch, Lux will become the official hang out for them and more will continue to leave roosevelt because now everyone knows about it.

Hipsters do nothing for communities except annoy everyone around them. They are today's hippes, but without leaving a big enough mark to have a celebrated culture.

Why do you hate comedy?

And downtown does have a local/amateur Comedy night, at the Ghost Lounge of the Hotel San Carlos at 8pm. Its not an open mic, its better quality than that, its something worth checking out and supporting downtown.

Phoenix may not have a great music scene but its blessed with one of the best local comedy scenes in the country, maybe you should check it out and support it rather than calling comedy 'banal.'

obviously i don't hate comedy. what am i, a fucking communist?

I just hate bad comedy, which, coincidentally comprises 95% of comedy shows and routines. The phoenix metro doesnt have a good comedy scene. Where in the world did you come up with that? And yes, i'm fully aware of Tempe's Improv and David Spade, but an inconsequential <150 person club does not a "good scene" comprise.

Dane Cook, Carlos Mencia, and that ilk need to contract FaceAIDS and rid the universe of their terrible branding of humor; This hipster yuppie gentrifier says so.

Why place a product as ordinary as a "comedy" club in an estranged portion of downtown that promotes two shows nightly, and an in-then-out-you-go policy? What kind of dynamic is this creating?

I've mentioned once or twice on the cityscape thread that something like an Alamo Drafthouse with specialized programming on weekdays is the mothereffin cure for the creative class scene in downtown. Look it up -- it appealing and current and a major MAJOR midweek draw ... and Thurs-Sun could be reserved for first run movies as the Alamo Ritz in downtown Austin does.

Honestly, a bowling alley, comedy club, and a five guys. Who are they expecting to draw? Church camp

This conversation is the worst. Also, its irrelevant whether you like comedy or not, its good to have as many opinions downtown as possible to draw as many people in as possible. I personally dont really want to go to that or to Lucky Strike or to the Gold's Gym, but thats not the point. Someone will want to go to those things, and they'll come downtown and have fun. Simple as that. I like going to Jobot for coffee or the Lost Leaf for drinks, even if its only for "hipsters," and it brings me downtown.
Is Cityscape a little fake feeling? Sure, but it does have some cool opinions and is really adding a lot to the downtown scene.

I got the old bait-n-switch post having something to do with me trolling. It was all very exciting and original.

More details pls.

maybe so, but I'm in the exact target demo for what attracts businesses to set up shop -- at least the businesses that y'all are writhing for to become downtown denizens.

Thats a lazy opinion and not very close to accurate. It is good to have a centralized them, so as to bait your target demographic. Look, a bunch of scene kids with Band of Horses tees aren't going to want to hang with families with kids n shit. Gentrifying Yups don't want to mix with that element either. Pic a demo and run with it. This is why Roosevelt Row is the most successful nook downtown. Dowtown needs a theme that isn't some generic catch-all.

Really? Sounds exactly like the point.

so, because SOMEONE ... ANYONE (please! please!) will come, we should build. That's certainly a backwards philosophy on business and one that downtown has gambled on and lost.

yes, once a year.

Hipster. Vandercook's gonna be hot on your arse.

agree. lets hope it doesn't continue to shit the bed like it has in its first year.

I assure you I know more about comedy than you, and Phoenix does indeed have a very good comedy scene. I've performed comedy in the following Medium to large sized cities:

Phoenix
Los Angeles
Portland (Oregon)
Atlanta
Boston
Chicago
St Louis
Houston
Austin
Denver
Omaha
Des Moines
Oklahoma City
San Diego

and I can tell you for a fact that PHX holds its own with any of them comedy wise. Phoenix has a lot of good local comics, good rooms to see comedy in and a scene thats absolutely exploding right now. It won't be long until a local comic like Chris Bennett, Mike Kennedy or Cristin Davis breaks out and is known nationally.

Stand Up Live is not going to be a less than 150 person club btw, its going to have a larger capacity than the Tempe Improv and be around a 600 seater I believe.

Unless you were referring to the Ghost Lounge, which is quite small but its not trying to be a place like the Improv, its a whole different ball game. Further, what does seating capacity have to do with a quality comedy show? The Laughing Skull in Atlanta is nationally known as one of the best clubs in the country and it only seats about 90.

Phoenix has comedy shows somewhere in the Valley and quite often in Central Phoenix every night of the week. I'd particularly recommend checking out the Hidden House on the SE Corner of 7th Ave and Osborn and Wednesday and Thursday nights, its a great local showcase where people are doing new and interesting stuff all the time.

So where in the world did you come up with Phoenix not having a good comedy scene is the better question. We have guys who have been on Kimmel, guys who tour regularly, working professional comics and due to our proximity to LA get tons of visiting comics of some note at small clubs and you can often see them for cheap or free.

I see your point about the kids from Roosevelt and the yuppies at the Duce not wanting to mix with the Cityscape crowd, but appealing to those crowds wasn't really possible i dont think. People that like classic city things aren't going to go to a downtown mega-development anyway, no matter how awesome it is. Places like the warehouse district, roosevelt and grand have the historic buildings that bring in creative people, artists, ect. So unless you're going to build the coolest mega development ever (which we all know wasn't going to happen) its better to attract families and surburban folks with cityscape. I see it as a way to add to the downtown scene and then things can spread out from there.
Good growth is organic, which Cityscape is not, but i think all things considered, they did a pretty good job scoring some interesting places.

Totally agree. Its a really good comedy scene and one that deserves more more recognition.

Well, shit ... with amusing posts like these who needs comedians?

Fine. So Phoenix has a burgeoning indie comedy scene. That's fine and I'll grant you the point. Are you insinuating that Lucky Comedy Lanes @ Highrise cum Midrise Downtown Phoenix Branch is going to cater to this demo? If so, thats wonderful. That's kind-of on the right track for what DT needs, although, comedy needs an underground scene for a reason -- it has very tepid appeal.

I don't even understand your question because its so strangely worded. Stand Up Live is going to be a headlining club, like the Tempe Improv*. They're going to get guys like Bob Saget, Joe Rogan, Kevin Nealon, etc. According to our own Gymrataz who looked inside apparently Stand Up Live will also have a smaller side room perhaps for local shows. Hopefully they do a better job w/ said side room than the Improv which runs a pretty generic, mostly 'clean' and lame showcase show in their side room.

*BTW the Tempe Improv is widely viewed as one of the best headlining clubs in the country. Watch Jerry Seinfelds "Comedian" documentary, he performs there and in the DVD commentary Seinfeld mentions what a great room it is.

is that easier to understand?

Ok, so they're getting touring shows with 600 seats. Awesome. I should have researched that better. Not bad at all. Its a start.

However, when the Dave Chapelles, Conan O'Briens, George Lopezes and Fred Armisens are in town they're not playing that theater. They're playing DodgeComerica. So, in a way, whats the point? There already is a worthy theater of sorts to accommodate touring comedy acts.

Are Phoenicians gonna fill this thing for a midweek Beto the Self-Deprecating Messican from El Mirage show? Doesn't seem very likely to me, particularly since you label the comedy scene in PHX as emergent. And Jerry F'n Sienfeld ain't playing to 600 people.

Are we talking about someone the level of Zane Lamprey or Tosh? I mean, each of those comedians still command well over 1500 paying customers. I'm just confused by the underwhelming dimensions of the club itself and I don't think its as spectacular of a decision as one's initial reaction would lead him to believe.

Look, I'm not trying to take a dump on your chest, here. I'm just warning you to temper your expectations of any kind of disconnected project taking the reigns of the downtown community and turning it into the East Village.

sweet. gotta link?

No I don't have a link, go rent the movie Comedian and watch it. Or ask any national headliner who's played the Improv, its a well regarded club.

You're right that generally guys like Seinfeld, Daniel Tosh, etc will play bigger venues. For instance I saw Eddie Izzard a few years back the Orpheum. However sometimes some of the real big guys decide to go on Comedy Club tours and can do that by doing 2 shows a night.

Stand Up Live is going to get the same sort of acts that the Improv gets. Bob Marley, Kevin Nealon, et cetera. The Improv has had a tough time in this down economy filling the entire floor as well as the balcony and I assume Stand Up Live may have some of the same issues, but I think it can do fine in the long run.

Its proximity to ASU Downtown should help, its easy to get to via the LRT and late shows there should be buoyed by people leaving other Downtown events but wanting to keep the night going.

If your question is, will the club be filled by Indie Hipsters with little spending money? Probably not. But thats not the point of that sort of large general club, thats what smaller rooms like the Hidden House are about.

Big clubs like the Improv and Stand Up Live are like sporting events. They'll have some people who are super into it and go a lot, but for the most part they're counting on a pretty general audience and hope that most people in the city go once or twice a year and that keeps them going.

Quite the tour there Hoover - must have been great fun. When you played Denver were you at the Comedy Works? I have some great memories from that place.

^I've only been to Denver once to do comedy. Unfortunately it was on a July 4th and thus all the real clubs were closed, so I just did a show at some crappy bar. I've heard the Comedy Works is great though.

I'm sure Denver has a great version of everything. What a fantastic city.

Why couldn't I turn my 1200/mo mortgage in pboenix into a 600/mo in denver and a 600/mo in phoenix and have two seasonal jobs???

Ahhhh i wish!!

FortyAcres - we get it, you don't like comedy. So don't go to the comedy club. anyway, back to something relevant please...

has anyone else downloaded the new Google Earth? They have a feature now where you can look at past imagery. Downtown Phoenix is as old as 1992.

*no heritage square
*no bank one ballpark
*no science center
*no phelps dodge or collier's
*no sheraton obviously

Anything else?

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