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-   -   How Is Covid-19 Impacting Life in Your City? (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=242036)

the urban politician Aug 12, 2021 2:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eschaton (Post 9362918)
Given a vaccinated person with mild COVID can actually spread it to others, it's the responsible thing to get tested, so you can quarantine and not inadvertently kill some antivax idiot...or do your normal business with a head cold.

The issue is the government tracking all "cases" of COVID in the same manner, not the testing.

Meh, I disagree. It’s not my responsibility to protect the fuckfaces who refuse to get vaccinated. To the contrary, I want to spread a Covid to them so that they can get it and have immunity. And if they die....well, they made their own decision

eschaton Aug 12, 2021 2:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 9362968)
Meh, I disagree. It’s not my responsibility to protect the fuckfaces who refuse to get vaccinated. To the contrary, I want to spread a Covid to them so that they can get it and have immunity. And if they die....well, they made their own decision

You could still trigger a chain of infections which leads to a child getting seriously ill. Or someone who was vaccinated but immunocompromised.

suburbanite Aug 12, 2021 2:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 9362968)
Meh, I disagree. It’s not my responsibility to protect the fuckfaces who refuse to get vaccinated. To the contrary, I want to spread a Covid to them so that they can get it and have immunity. And if they die....well, they made their own decision

Did you not take an oath that literally outlines this as your responsibility?

Camelback Aug 12, 2021 2:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 9362959)
But… who cares?

If 99% of Floridians over 65 are vaccinated (and if they’ve gotten one shot there’s no reason to believe they won’t get the second), then the overall risk is manageable. Sure there is risk to the middle-aged, but presumably vaccination rates don’t drop from 99% straight down to 15% for under-65s. The under-18s are at more risk from traffic accidents.

You sir, are correct. We are in agreement.

As long as the most vulnerable are getting vaxxed (old people seem to have gotten the message loud and clear), it doesn't matter what the others do.

Now if you're a dum dum that has other serious health ailments and you are not vaxxed as of August, you have nobody else to blame, but yourself for getting hospitalized or dying.

the urban politician Aug 12, 2021 2:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eschaton (Post 9362972)
You could still trigger a chain of infections which leads to a child getting seriously ill. Or someone who was vaccinated but immunocompromised.

I am not responsible for the irresponsible and, frankly, reckless behavior of others. One can only go so far with your argument that “a child can get ill”

We have a free and easy to get vaccine, and I will only adjust my life so much for the fools who won’t listen

the urban politician Aug 12, 2021 3:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suburbanite (Post 9362979)
Did you not take an oath that literally outlines this as your responsibility?

No.

You don’t have a clue what you re talking about with this attempt at preaching. I’m here to give sound medical advice, nothing more. I am not going to be expected to live like a Saint just because a random guy on the Internet manufactured some standards that he wants to apply to me.

Your argument has no limit in how it could penalize and shame every medical professional for every little act they potentially make. Science has created a vaccine, I’m telling you to get the vaccine post haste. If you don’t listen, then that’s your problem, not mine.

suburbanite Aug 12, 2021 3:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 9362999)
No.

You don’t have a clue what you re talking about with this attempt at preaching. I’m here to give sound medical advice, nothing more. I am not going to be expected to live like a Saint just because a random guy on the Internet manufactured some standards that he wants to apply to me.

Your argument has no limit in how it could penalize and shame every medical professional for every little act they potentially make. Science has created a vaccine, I’m telling you to get the vaccine post haste. If you don’t listen, then that’s your problem, not mine.

I don't disagree with most of your points on Covid, but you had a line in your post about intentionally spreading disease... Not sure that's really some arbitrary standard that would unfairly penalize doctors.

the urban politician Aug 12, 2021 3:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suburbanite (Post 9363017)
I don't disagree with most of your points on Covid, but you had a line in your post about intentionally spreading disease... Not sure that's really some arbitrary standard that would unfairly penalize doctors.

I wouldn’t “intentially” spread anything. What kind of dick would go around coughing in people’s faces?

But I’m not going to live an unreasonably impeded life just to protect people who refuse to be protected.

photoLith Aug 12, 2021 4:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eschaton (Post 9362972)
You could still trigger a chain of infections which leads to a child getting seriously ill. Or someone who was vaccinated but immunocompromised.

Having the flu one year can possibly get a child very sick eventually, should we shut down everything and enact social distancing because someone might end up in a hospital every flu season? The flu is much more dangerous to children than covid. I had the flu when I was 3 and had a 105 fever, it fucked my developing teeth up and to this day I still have no enamel on my teeth because of the flu from then.

Pedestrian Aug 12, 2021 7:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suburbanite (Post 9363017)
I don't disagree with most of your points on Covid, but you had a line in your post about intentionally spreading disease... Not sure that's really some arbitrary standard that would unfairly penalize doctors.

I don't agree with urban politician about much but on this we do agree. It's ultimately beneficial to humanity to get as much of the population immune to the covid virus as possible and there's 2 ways to do it: Vaccinate them or let them get covid. That not all will survive covid is almost beside the point because it could bring the virus under control and prevent many more future deaths of other people.

I'd be for mandatory vaccination in almost very way possible--to eat in a restaurant, enter a store, go to work etc etc--before I'd be for promoting covid infection, but ultimately for those who are totally recalcitrant, encourage them to do the things that let them get covid and get their immunity that way and stop the virus from replicating and mutating.

Pedestrian Aug 13, 2021 12:59 AM

Quote:

San Francisco to become first major U.S. city to mandate full vaccination for many indoor activities
Trisha Thadani
Aug. 12, 2021
Updated: Aug. 12, 2021 5:37 p.m.

San Francisco will become the first major city in the country to require proof of full vaccination against the coronavirus for a variety of indoor activities, including visiting bars, restaurants, gyms and entertainment venues that serve food or beverages.

Many bars and restaurants around San Francisco have already taken it upon themselves to ask patrons to show their vaccination cards before they enter — a process that has largely gone well. Nearly 80% of the city’s eligible population has been vaccinated, and officials hope the new rule will push holdouts to finally get the shot.

The mandate will take effect Friday, Aug. 20 . . . .

Patrons will not be allowed to substitute a recent negative test for proof of vaccination.

New York City plans to require proof of at least one dose of the COVID-19 vaccine for indoor activities starting Aug. 16. But San Francisco’s order takes it a step further by requiring customers to be fully vaccinated.

In San Francisco, patrons will have to show they are vaccinated at bars and restaurants only if they plan to eat and drink inside. So someone coming in to pick up a takeout order or a cup of coffee to go will not be required to show a vaccine card. Retailers, grocery stores will also be exempt from the requirement, as are children younger than 12 — who are ineligible to be vaccinated.

While customers will be required to show their vaccine cards by Aug. 20, employees of the establishments will have until Oct. 13 to be vaccinated.

Large indoor events with more than 1,000 people — such as Chase Center, where the Golden State Warriors play — will be included in the vaccine requirement. Vaccine cards will not be required at outdoor venues, such as Oracle Park, but officials strongly urge venues to ask for them.

The health order also extends vaccination requirements to health care providers — such as dentists and pharmacists — that are not included in the state’s vaccination requirements. They will have to be fully vaccinated by Oct. 13 . . . .

The city already reimposed an indoor mask mandate this month, in an attempt to curb the spread of the highly infectious delta variant. Dr. Grant Colfax, director of the city’s Department of Public Health, said Thursday that San Francisco has no current plans to lift the indoor mask mandate . . . .

Los Angeles is considering a similar move, but is still working out the details. Palm Springs and Cathedral City, both in Riverside County, also recently voted to require proof of vaccination for patrons at indoor venues such as restaurants; it was not immediately clear from news reports whether they require one dose or the full dosage of two-shot vaccinations . . . .

https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/...o-16382500.php

Pedestrian Aug 13, 2021 6:26 AM

Quote:

Stevie Nicks drops out of BottleRock 2021 over COVID concerns and is replaced by Chris Stapleton
Aidin Vaziri August 10, 2021
Updated: August 11, 2021, 12:35 pm

Stevie Nicks has canceled all her upcoming appearances for 2021, including a headline spot at the BottleRock Napa Valley music festival over Labor Day weekend, due to the growing threat of the delta variant of the coronavirus.

The Fleetwood Mac singer will be replaced on the bill by country star Chris Stapleton, taking her Friday night slot at the festival scheduled to take place Sept. 3-5 at the Napa Valley Expo, promoters announced Tuesday, Aug. 10.
https://datebook.sfchronicle.com/mus...d5ac356600061b

homebucket Aug 13, 2021 6:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 9363679)

“Large indoor events with more than 1,000 people — such as Chase Center, where the Golden State Warriors play — will be included in the vaccine requirement.”

Does that mean if a visiting player (I’m assuming all Warriors players and staff will be, otherwise they wouldn’t be able play in any home games) isn’t vaccinated he isn’t allowed in the arena and thus cannot play that game?

SlidellWx Aug 13, 2021 7:24 AM

Vaccine or negative test mandate goes into effect in New Orleans on Monday for pretty much all indoor activities. This includes all of the upcoming Saints games in the Superdome. Carrots are being replaced with sticks.

https://www.nola.com/news/coronaviru...3b35d5990.html

Pedestrian Aug 13, 2021 7:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by homebucket (Post 9363858)
“Large indoor events with more than 1,000 people — such as Chase Center, where the Golden State Warriors play — will be included in the vaccine requirement.”

Does that mean if a visiting player (I’m assuming all Warriors players and staff will be, otherwise they wouldn’t be able play in any home games) isn’t vaccinated he isn’t allowed in the arena and thus cannot play that game?

I don't know, of course, but I assume for players the NBA rules have to be followed or they'd pull all games out of SF.

10023 Aug 13, 2021 8:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 9363372)
I don't agree with urban politician about much but on this we do agree. It's ultimately beneficial to humanity to get as much of the population immune to the covid virus as possible and there's 2 ways to do it: Vaccinate them or let them get covid. That not all will survive covid is almost beside the point because it could bring the virus under control and prevent many more future deaths of other people.

I'd be for mandatory vaccination in almost very way possible--to eat in a restaurant, enter a store, go to work etc etc--before I'd be for promoting covid infection, but ultimately for those who are totally recalcitrant, encourage them to do the things that let them get covid and get their immunity that way and stop the virus from replicating and mutating.

You and others are underestimating the logistical and enforcement challenges.

How does one prove vaccination status? Is a photo of the paper card sufficient or can this be too easily faked? The paper card itself is too flimsy to carry around all the time (and too large for a wallet). Electronic passes are different in every jurisdiction around the world and so would be impossible for travel.

Sure, if you live in New York, get vaccinated in New York, and can verify your status with some state of NY app that is accepted by businesses in New York, then that works fine… as long as you never leave New York. But that’s not life.

This year has already been ruined by travel restrictions and that can’t be a permanent state of play.

iheartthed Aug 13, 2021 3:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 9363885)
You and others are underestimating the logistical and enforcement challenges.

How does one prove vaccination status? Is a photo of the paper card sufficient or can this be too easily faked? The paper card itself is too flimsy to carry around all the time (and too large for a wallet). Electronic passes are different in every jurisdiction around the world and so would be impossible for travel.

Sure, if you live in New York, get vaccinated in New York, and can verify your status with some state of NY app that is accepted by businesses in New York, then that works fine… as long as you never leave New York. But that’s not life.

This year has already been ruined by travel restrictions and that can’t be a permanent state of play.

It's really not that hard, and vaccines were required for travel way before COVID-19. This is actually an opportunity to make the vaccination tracking process more efficient. Clear is already making moves to be the global platform for vaccination status verification.

homebucket Aug 13, 2021 3:33 PM

Yeah it's probably time to overhaul the system and make some sort of standardized national electronic record keeping system, at least for vaccines. Full medical records would be ideal too but that's probably way too much work.

photoLith Aug 13, 2021 4:13 PM

I lost my stupid vaccine card when we moved into our new house. I have a photo of it on my phone, hopefully that will be evidence enough if these draconian rules come to Pittsburgh.

eschaton Aug 13, 2021 4:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by photoLith (Post 9363084)
Having the flu one year can possibly get a child very sick eventually, should we shut down everything and enact social distancing because someone might end up in a hospital every flu season? The flu is much more dangerous to children than covid. I had the flu when I was 3 and had a 105 fever, it fucked my developing teeth up and to this day I still have no enamel on my teeth because of the flu from then.

I wasn't arguing in favor of shutting down everything, only that if you have a bad cold, are vaccinated, and believe you were exposed to COVID, you should do the right thing and get tested, and isolate to the best you are able while symptomatic.

chris08876 Aug 13, 2021 4:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by photoLith (Post 9364169)
I lost my stupid vaccine card when we moved into our new house. I have a photo of it on my phone, hopefully that will be evidence enough if these draconian rules come to Pittsburgh.

I keep mine right next to the registration and insurance in my car.

They might be able to get you a replacement. I forget if PA has a database of who took it or not. I believe NJ does (I took my shots in NJ prior to the move to PA).

chris08876 Aug 13, 2021 5:03 PM

@photolith,

To replace your lost vaccine card, contact the following:

Bureau of Health Statistics and Registries
555 Walnut St., Sixth Floor
Harrisburg, PA 17101-1914
877-774-4748
717-772-3258 (fax)
ra-dhpasiis@pa.gov

Nite Aug 13, 2021 5:17 PM

Federal government to require vaccinations for all federal public servants, air and train passengers

"Starting soon, all commercial air travellers and passengers on interprovincial trains and large marine vessels with overnight accommodations (such as cruise ships) will have to be vaccinated, Alghabra said. He said accommodations will be made for "those few who are unable to be vaccinated," such as testing and screening."

That's right anyone who want to travel by air, train or work for the federal government in Canada will soon require everyone to be vaccinated.

photoLith Aug 13, 2021 5:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris08876 (Post 9364222)
@photolith,

To replace your lost vaccine card, contact the following:

Bureau of Health Statistics and Registries
555 Walnut St., Sixth Floor
Harrisburg, PA 17101-1914
877-774-4748
717-772-3258 (fax)
ra-dhpasiis@pa.gov

Thanks! Ill contact them if every place around here starts requiring it.

Camelback Aug 13, 2021 6:55 PM

Oregon has one of the highest vaccination rates of all the states and is seeing quite a spike in cases there, record breaking daily new cases the past two days in a row........

Starting to look like the vaxxes don't work for long or are they actually enhancing viral loads when re-exposed to a covid variant?

chris08876 Aug 13, 2021 7:01 PM

Could be that its mild cases and folks just get tested. Now if we are seeing deaths spike dramatically in those vaccinated, than we have a big issue.

But so far, looks like almost all of the folks dying are the unvaccinated.

Unless with Oregon its just Delta getting that % that didn't get the shots.

Xing Aug 13, 2021 7:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camelback (Post 9364357)
Oregon has one of the highest vaccination rates of all the states and is seeing quite a spike in cases there, record breaking daily new cases the past two days in a row........

Starting to look like the vaxxes don't work for long or are they actually enhancing viral loads when re-exposed to a covid variant?

Even when the virus breaks through the vaccine, you are looking at a significantly lower chance of a severe case, and virtually zero chance of death. If you have it after being vaccinated, you can still spread it. Breakthrough infections will still be recorded as new cases. Even with that said, the number of people required to be vaccinated, in order for herd immunity to begin to take shape, is approximately 70%. No state has reached that number as of yet, although Vermont is getting there. Oregon has yet to reach 60%, even with the fact that it’s doing significantly better than other states.

eschaton Aug 13, 2021 7:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camelback (Post 9364357)
Oregon has one of the highest vaccination rates of all the states and is seeing quite a spike in cases there, record breaking daily new cases the past two days in a row........

Starting to look like the vaxxes don't work for long or are they actually enhancing viral loads when re-exposed to a covid variant?

You'd need herd immunity of 90%-95% to stop the growth of Delta, and nowhere in the world has that right now. Even if you could somehow get vaccination rates that high, there would be enough breakthrough infections to keep it bubbling along.

chris08876 Aug 13, 2021 7:04 PM

The slow movement to essentially require vaccines is starting to pop up across the country, requiring daily life events to have proof of it. Looks like some momentum is building in that regards.

But we have yet to see what will happen in the Fall. As the young bloods go back to school and eventually infect those that aren't protected (and themselves). Will happen. Kids will be the new vectors of this pandemic.

So hopefully the FDA can hurry up and approve the shots for kids. Either way, the Fall will probally suck for those not protected.

Camelback Aug 13, 2021 7:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xing (Post 9364369)
Even when the virus breaks through the vaccine, you are looking at a significantly lower chance of a severe case, and virtually zero chance of death. If you have it after being vaccinated, you can still spread it. Breakthrough infections will still be recorded as new cases. Even with that said, the number of people required to be vaccinated, in order for herd immunity to begin to take shape, is approximately 70%. No state has reached that number as of yet, although Vermont is getting there. Oregon has yet to reach 60%, even with the fact that it’s doing significantly better than other states.

Oh yeah, 100%.

Interesting to see spikes of cases in highly vaccinated states. The problem with Oregon is they probably don't have much natural immunity there. They never really had large outbreaks in 2020 compared to other states like New York.

Btw, I'm seeing that Oregon is 63.1% fully vaccinated in the 18-64 age group and 90.4% in the 65+ age group.

Camelback Aug 13, 2021 7:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eschaton (Post 9364371)
You'd need herd immunity of 90%-95% to stop the growth of Delta, and nowhere in the world has that right now. Even if you could somehow get vaccination rates that high, there would be enough breakthrough infections to keep it bubbling along.

I think one issue is the lack of natural immunity in Oregon.

chris08876 Aug 13, 2021 7:09 PM

^^^^

That's crazy to think almost 10% of folks over 65 don't have the shot in Oregon.

I'd be curious to see what the metrics are for folks over 65 that haven't gotten it.

Its beyond asinine for that age group to have the balls to not get it... after all we've done for them and sacrificed. :hell:

I hope those idiots in The Villages have the shot. That place is what happens when nursing homes run urban development... much sprawl!

dktshb Aug 13, 2021 8:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 9362887)
I don’t understand why vaccinated people who get a “head cold” feel the need to get tested for Covid. If I get sick I would do what I’ve done my entire life: rest, take Tylenol, fluids, and move on.

The whole purpose of the vaccine is to allow us to not think about Covid. That message was obviously lost. The media doesn’t want that to happen (fear and views means $$), and of course our in house Howard Hughes is having a love affair with his basement couch, so we wouldn’t want to disrupt that either.

Well I didn't get tested when I was sick assuming it was a head cold. I got tested when 3 out of 4 vaccinated house mates got covid on our vacation which was about 3 weeks after I was sick. Apparently delta presents more like a head cold since the vaccine is good at keeping it out of your lungs but not good at keeping it out of your throat and nose, which is why it is good at keeping you out of the hospital but not from getting sick. I suspect now that it was covid. I at least hope so. I would really feel invincible now if it was. I wonder if antibody tests can distinguish if vaccinated people got covid? I had the pfizer but I wish I got Moderna. The only person other than me that did not test positive or get sick had the Moderna vaccine. The rest of us has pfizer. Moderna is better against delta than pfizer.

pdxtex Aug 14, 2021 9:19 PM

Oregons spike is happening mostly in rural counties and in conservatives zip codes along the I5 corridor. Medford, Grant's Pass....Multnomah Co, the biggest population center is nearly 70 fully vaccinated. The statewide mask mandate is back tho.

Camelback Aug 14, 2021 9:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdxtex (Post 9365357)
Oregons spike is happening mostly in rural counties and in conservatives zip codes along the I5 corridor. Medford, Grant's Pass....Multnomah Co, the biggest population center is nearly 70 fully vaccinated. The statewide mask mandate is back tho.

I've seen some data from other states' county websites that the ratio of cases of non-vaxxed to vaxxed is 10:1

That's going off memory, (which is normally sharp as a nail, it's sharp, unless I got the reggae music bumpin').

Pedestrian Aug 14, 2021 9:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris08876 (Post 9364384)
I hope those idiots in The Villages have the shot. That place is what happens when nursing homes run urban development... much sprawl!

Nursing homes don't run The Villages and most there likely have been vaccinated. Florida's highest rates of non-vaccination are where you'd expect: Along the Georgia border and in the panhandle. South Florida is very highly vaccinated and Central Florida, where The Villages is, somewhat less but pretty good among seniors. Overall, Florida is about the best-vaccinated state in the Old South (other than maybe Virginia).

Pedestrian Aug 14, 2021 9:46 PM

See, if Trump did it, it's OK with DeSantis and Abbot. Both are setting up monoclonal antibody infusion centers (which is not a bad thing at all but why do they think those microchips can't be infused IV).

Quote:

DeSantis, faced with covid surge, urges Floridians to use Regeneron antibody treatment given to Trump
By Timothy Bella
Yesterday at 2:59 p.m. EDT

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis (R) is vowing to begin dispensing Regeneron monoclonal antibodies — the treatment given to President Donald Trump when he had the coronavirus — through mobile clinics amid a record-breaking stretch of new cases and hospitalizations that have ravaged the state.

DeSantis said at a news conference in Jacksonville on Thursday that while coronavirus vaccines have been effective at preventing illness and death, more was needed to help curb the spread of the virus in a state that has become the U.S. hotbed of the latest surge of infections. The governor championed Regeneron’s monoclonal antibody cocktail for those who have already gotten sick, saying it is “the most effective treatment that we’ve yet encountered for people who are actually infected with covid-19.”

“Covid’s not going to go away,” DeSantis said. “So the question is how are we going to approach it. You can approach it on the front end by protecting yourself, but of course, if you end up in a situation where you are infected and at high risk, getting in here early, this is the best shot we’ve got right now to keep people out of the hospital and keep them safe.”

The antibody treatment, a cocktail of the monoclonal antibodies casirivimab and imdevimab that is made by Regeneron Pharmaceuticals, is designed to prevent infected people from developing severe illness . . . .

DeSantis told reporters that the mobile units, which are already operating in parts of the state hit hard by the delta variant, will be expanded throughout Florida. The Trump administration last year initially bought 300,000 doses of Regeneron’s monoclonal antibody treatment, which cost about $1,500 per dose at the time.

A Regeneron spokesperson said in a statement to The Washington Post on Friday that the government has now bought up to 1.5 million doses of the treatment and that it is being made available free to patients. DeSantis did not specify how many Floridians would have access to the shots.

The Food and Drug Administration granted emergency authorization to Regeneron in November, saying that the treatment may be effective in treating mild to moderate covid in adults and children 12 or older, and is recommended for those at high risk of developing severe illness. The FDA expanded Regeneron’s emergency authorized use last month, enabling the treatment for people exposed to someone who has been infected or for those at high risk of exposure in settings such as prisons or nursing homes.

DeSantis urged people at high risk to get the treatment at the first sign of symptoms, suggesting that Floridians “won’t even necessarily need a prescription from a doctor” to obtain Regeneron. Doctors and health professionals have indicated that people who are severely ill from the coronavirus are less likely to see benefits from monoclonal antibodies.

“I do think this is probably the best thing we can do to reduce the number of people that require hospitalization,” DeSantis said.

The state reported 24,730 new cases on Thursday, bringing its seven-day average to more than 18,000 cases a day, according to data compiled by The Post. With 15,796 people hospitalized for the virus, Florida now accounts for 1 out of every 5 covid hospitalizations in the nation. More than 3,200 people are currently occupying beds in intensive care units, an increase of 17 percent from last week . . . .

The Regeneron cocktail is best known as the antibody treatment given to Trump when it was still an investigational drug after he contracted the virus last October. Other high-profile Republicans, such as Rudolph W. Giuliani and Ben Carson, also acknowledged receiving the Regeneron drug.

After he was released from the hospital, Trump inaccurately described the Regeneron cocktail as a “cure” and pressed the FDA to quickly clear the medication. While demand was expected to surge when Trump made a laudatory video in which he promised to make the antibody treatments free to patients needing them, officials acknowledged that many patients and doctors did not know much about the medicine and were not asking for it.

DeSantis on Thursday promoted Regeneron as achieving a “70 percent reduction in hospitalization and death for covid patients” in clinical trials, referencing an announcement by the company in the spring. But Dushyantha Jayaweera, a clinical professor at the University of Miami Medical School, told WPLG that the decrease in hospitalizations was more like a “relative risk reduction.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...HdnnwVWqgMJGwY

As it happens there are now 3 different monoclonal antibody drugs approved in the US, one each from Regeneron, Lilly and Glaxo. Naturally, DeSantis and Abbot are only boosting the one Trump got which is the oldest I believe.

Yuri Aug 14, 2021 10:40 PM

Last week Brazil had overtook the US as % of adults vaccinated with at least one shot (above 70% now). That's something we only dream of few months ago with all the political meltdown regarding Bolsonaro's government attempts to sabotage vaccines purchases.

Brazil anti-vax movement never took root and polls indicate up to 94% of population intend to be vaccinated.

Pedestrian Aug 14, 2021 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yuriandrade (Post 9365420)
Brazil anti-vax movement never took root and polls indicate up to 94% of population intend to be vaccinated.

We've got a long history with it:

Quote:

Ben Franklin’s bitter regret that he didn’t immunize his 4-year-old son against smallpox
By Gillian Brockell

Five weeks had passed since the death of Benjamin Franklin’s son, and rumors were swirling. Four-year-old Francis “Franky” Franklin had died after being inoculated for smallpox, the rumor went, and now his pro-inoculation father was trying to hide it.

The gossip reached such a point that on Dec. 30, 1736, the grieving father, then 30, confronted it in the pages of his newspaper, the Pennsylvania Gazette.
“Inasmuch as some People are, by that [rumor] ... deter’d from having that Operation perform’d on their Children,” he wrote, “I do hereby sincerely declare, that he was not inoculated, but receiv’d the Distemper in the common Way of Infection.”

It must have been hard to admit — Franklin had long advocated inoculation as a “safe and beneficial practice” — that his own son had gone unprotected.
“I intended to have my Child inoculated,” he explained, “as soon as he should have recovered sufficient Strength from a Flux [diarrhea] with which he had been long afflicted.”

More than five decades later, in his autobiography published posthumously, he said he had “long regretted bitterly, and still regret” that he had chosen to wait . . . .

The concept of immunization came to the American colonies via Africa. In the early 1700s, Puritan minister Cotton Mather learned from Onesimus, a man he enslaved, about the method long used in West Africa, where a weakened form of the disease would be intentionally applied to a cut. This gave the patient a mild case of smallpox, with a drastically higher survival rate than the usual illness. And afterward, the patient would be forever immune. Mather brought this concept to a local doctor, who began testing it on family members and people he enslaved.

Growing up in Boston and apprenticing for his older brother’s printing business, the teenage Benjamin Franklin had a front-row seat to the public debate over the doctor’s experiment. But, as Stephen Coss explains in his book, “The Fever of 1721: The Epidemic That Revolutionized Medicine and American Politics,” there was a catch: His brother was against it. In fact, a desire to publish anti-inoculation screeds was a major reason why his brother started his newspaper, according to Coss.

The younger Franklin, always a lover of science and invention, probably didn’t appreciate having to play a part in publishing anti-inoculation views. So later, when he had his own newspaper in Philadelphia, he became one of America’s “foremost inoculation evangelists,” Coss wrote.

When another smallpox outbreak hit Boston in 1730, he carefully recounted how well those who had chosen inoculation fared — only four died out of “hundreds” inoculated, he wrote — versus those who caught it naturally, in which case the death rate was nearly 30 percent.

He later published detailed instructions on how to perform an inoculation, and his decades of cataloguing survival rates probably played a role in George Washington’s decision during the Revolutionary War to order the entire Continental Army to be inoculated. Washington had natural immunity after surviving a bout of smallpox in his youth.

So why, only six years later, did Franklin’s son go uninoculated as another outbreak raged through Philadelphia? Many historians have accepted “at face value” Franklin’s explanation that he was waiting for his son’s health to improve, Coss wrote in Smithsonian Magazine. However, he proposes a different explanation, that Franklin’s wife was afraid of inoculation and convinced her husband not to subject their son to it. He notes that the couple’s relationship, once love-filled and affectionate, degenerated after Franky’s death. Franklin began characterizing his wife as irresponsible and questioned her fitness as a mother.

In 1759, Franklin wrote about such a scenario, while exploring the public’s reticence to accept inoculation. When “one parent or near relation is against it the other does not chuse to inoculate a child without free consent of all parties, lest in case of a disastrous event, perpetual blame should follow.”

He also began to spend significant amounts of time away from her, like spending more than a decade in England when he originally said he would be gone a few months. He often took his daughter, grandson and other family members with him on these trips, but never her. In the last 17 years of her life, they spent only two years together, Coss wrote.

Near the end of his life, as he was writing his autobiography, the blame theme continued. After saying he “long regretted bitterly" the circumstances of his son’s death, he added this warning:

“This I mention for the Sake of Parents, who omit that Operation on the Supposition that they should never forgive themselves if a Child died under it; my Example showing that the Regret may be the same either way, and that therefore the safer should be chosen.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/histo...x-son-vaccine/

austlar1 Aug 15, 2021 12:17 AM

Just a quick check in from Austin. Delta is everywhere. I know of four people who have come down with mild cases (so far) in the past few days. All of them were vaccinated, two of them with J&J and the other two with Pfizer or Moderna. Delta seems to be very easy to catch, but probably half the people seen in stores are sans mask. Supposedly once you leave the Austin area, virtually nobody is wearing a mask. The number of covid hospitalizations in Austin is at an all time high. Ditto for ICU and vent patients. Texas had 140 deaths yesterday. Texas will surpass New York in the total number of covid deaths sometime this weekend. That is certainly a dubious distinction and nothing to brag about.

Pedestrian Aug 15, 2021 8:30 AM

No San Francisco children are hospitalized with COVID, even as pediatric hospitals overflow elsewhere

10023 Aug 15, 2021 11:09 AM

^ You probably don’t want to be a Covid “hotspot”, but you also don’t want to be the place with the lowest number of cases. That just means the rules are too restrictive.

SIGSEGV Aug 15, 2021 1:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 9365652)
^ You probably don’t want to be a Covid “hotspot”, but you also don’t want to be the place with the lowest number of cases. That just means the rules are too restrictive.


With exponential growth the "middle ground" is extremely unstable.

10023 Aug 15, 2021 6:30 PM

Back to the practical issues with mandates:

https://www.grubstreet.com/2021/08/n...forcement.html


People keep insisting on citing the example of vaccine mandates to attend school, but this is nothing like that. You provide the school district proof of vaccination once and it’s done. This is going to be a constant headache, inconsistently applied and enforced, with different rules from business to business, or at least town to town, state to state, and country to country. In other words, something between ever present nuisance and utter mayhem. And I say that as a vaccinated person.

Moreover it is unnecessary. Vaccines exist. You can protect yourself with them, perhaps not from minor illness (until there’s a booster) but certainly from anything worth giving a shit about. If you choose not to, then fuck you, die. I don’t care. But they shouldn’t be creating a massive pain in the ass for millions of people, especially service workers, just to “incentivize” vaccine holdouts. The world needs population reduction anyway.

Pedestrian Aug 15, 2021 6:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 9365652)
^ You probably don’t want to be a Covid “hotspot”, but you also don’t want to be the place with the lowest number of cases. That just means the rules are too restrictive.

There are no "restrictions" in the Bay Area right now for the vaccinated other than wearing a mask inside stores and transit. No "lockdowns" at all. Everything's open and functioning for you if you've had your shots and that's as it should be. 85% of adults have had at least one shot and most of those who haven't had the second will get it when due and get it for their kids when permitted.

homebucket Aug 15, 2021 8:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 9365652)
^ You probably don’t want to be a Covid “hotspot”, but you also don’t want to be the place with the lowest number of cases. That just means the rules are too restrictive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 9365875)
There are no "restrictions" in the Bay Area right now for the vaccinated other than wearing a mask inside stores and transit. No "lockdowns" at all. Everything's open and functioning for you if you've had your shots and that's as it should be. 85% of adults have had at least one shot and most of those who haven't had the second will get it when due and get it for their kids when permitted.

There's about 35-36,000 fans at the ballpark today. And I was at the game the other day, with no masks or proof of vaccination required. So yeah, I'm not sure what restrictions he's talking about. An idiotic comment to say the least.

Camelback Aug 15, 2021 9:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 9365652)
^ You probably don’t want to be a Covid “hotspot”, but you also don’t want to be the place with the lowest number of cases. That just means the rules are too restrictive.

Places that were too restrictive earlier in the pandemic aren't going to fare too well with variants. Not much natural immunity within the community (Oregon).

Pedestrian Aug 15, 2021 9:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by homebucket (Post 9365944)
There's about 35-36,000 fans at the ballpark today. And I was at the game the other day, with no masks or proof of vaccination required. So yeah, I'm not sure what restrictions he's talking about. An idiotic comment to say the least.

Given the wind out there today, a cloud of covid aerosols would last about a tiny fraction of a second. :haha:

dktshb Aug 15, 2021 9:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camelback (Post 9365955)
Places that were too restrictive earlier in the pandemic aren't going to fare too well with variants. Not much natural immunity within the community (Oregon).

No. Non vaccinated people are not going to fare too well with the variants and I don't care other than the fact that they are overrunning hospitals right now because of their stupidity. They should stay home and hope they survive.

Camelback Aug 15, 2021 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dktshb (Post 9365993)
No. Non vaccinated people are not going to fare too well with the variants and I don't care other than the fact that they are overrunning hospitals right now because of their stupidity. They should stay home and hope they survive.

Yes, get a vaxxed. I have and so has everybody else I know. However.....

The vaccines are proving to be less effective than natural immunity, so much so, that a third booster shot is being administered in other nations and in immunocompromised populations here. There still is an extreme outlier that the vaccines actually enhance viral loads when re-exposed with potential variants, that would be the worst possible outcome because 72% of us have at least 1 shot.


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