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-   -   CHICAGO: Transit Developments (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101657)

Nouvellecosse Oct 19, 2014 12:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Downtown (Post 6767686)
No, fixed-plant electrification is an enormous cost for the tiniest of increments in greenhouse gases (that electricity has to be generated somewhere, somehow). In fact, when you consider transmission loss from distant power plants, it's doubtful there's any improvement at all. Lots of other things—natural gas or turbine prime movers, regenerative braking—could be done for a fraction of the cost, if emissions is your worry.

I think it will be an interesting discussion when the time comes—soon—to reconstruct the Metra Electric overhead.
Electrification isn't a net cost at all since as long as a line carries a reasonable amount of traffic, any short term start up cost is canceled out by the long term savings in fuel cost. So for frequent urban or commuter transit service, it's the better option regardless of any other benefits.

CTA Gray Line Oct 19, 2014 12:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by le_brew (Post 6773356)
true b/c I neither have, desire to have, or ever plan on having a smartphone.
You have NO IDEA [ NO IDEA ] of what you're missing out on, my favorite is the "Star Chart", the Most Absolutely Bestest Toy in The Whole Darn Universe. Through GPS and internal Gyros, wherever you aim the phone - it shows the Stars and Celestial Objects (with names), even pointing straight down at the ground.

GET ONE.......

Mr Downtown Oct 19, 2014 12:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse (Post 6773766)
Electrification isn't a net cost at all since. . . any short term start up cost is canceled out by the long term savings in fuel cost.
Electricity isn't free. Even if it's a couple of cents cheaper than diesel or gas per thousand BTU or per megajoule, the overhead will need to be replaced hundreds of years before the capital cost of electrification could ever be recovered.

Nouvellecosse Oct 19, 2014 1:45 AM
No it's typically recovered anywhere from 10-30 years depending on how busy the route is and the electricity prices.

Mr Downtown Oct 19, 2014 12:52 PM
^What sources may I examine that will support your figures?

le_brew Oct 19, 2014 4:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTA Gray Line (Post 6773790)
You have NO IDEA [ NO IDEA ] of what you're missing out on, my favorite is the "Star Chart", the Most Absolutely Bestest Toy in The Whole Darn Universe. Through GPS and internal Gyros, wherever you aim the phone - it shows the Stars and Celestial Objects (with names), even pointing straight down at the ground.

GET ONE.......
this is all good for you, but metra needs additional fare collection options. i may be willing to buy a specific device, such as a transponder for toll payment, for that purpose, however i feel that riding public transit and purchasing a smartphone are mutually exclusive.

CTA Gray Line Oct 19, 2014 4:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by le_brew (Post 6774202)
this is all good for you, but metra needs additional fare collection options. i may be willing to buy a specific device, such as a transponder for toll payment, for that purpose, however i feel that riding public transit and purchasing a smartphone are mutually exclusive.
OF COURSE Metra needs several different options, besides smartphones; maybe even different options for different Lines.

Briefly le_brew, what do you have against them? (one doesn't have to let oneself be seduced into it continously -- and they are very, very useful information sources, besides making calls).

le_brew Oct 19, 2014 5:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTA Gray Line (Post 6774236)
Briefly le_brew, what do you have against them?
briefly this:
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/...googlenews_wsj

OrdoSeclorum Oct 19, 2014 5:58 PM
Regarding electrification, the environmental and operational costs are secondary. The main benefits are reduced trip time and better ride conditions due to acceleration and improved air quality for passengers.

CTA Gray Line Oct 19, 2014 6:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by le_brew (Post 6774247)
You are absolutely correct about this, and you can either choose to deal with this manifestation of 2014 (as I do, with full knowledge), or go without the personal intrusion. (as you choose to do) Everybody's Happy!!

ardecila Oct 19, 2014 11:23 PM
Kind of obscure, but good news from CREATE - the massive 75th Street project just completed all environmental reviews and was approved by the Feds. The project includes demolishing almost 30 homes for a new Metra flyover, so approval is great news. It also includes two additional flyovers, track reconfigurations, signal upgrades, and viaduct replacement.

http://www.rtands.com/index.php/trac...treet-cip.html

Still no funding for this thing, but hopefully IDOT can find money for design and land acquisition.

Nouvellecosse Oct 20, 2014 11:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Downtown (Post 6774097)
^What sources may I examine that will support your figures?
I've seen several electrification cost benefits anaysis over the years, not sure how many of them are online. The basic enconomics are explained in here which explains that when there is fairly high train frequency, electrification is supported on an economic basis. It looks like the economic case includes not only fuel savings but also things like greater reliability and reduced maintenance costs.

I believe the recent GO electrification study is also available online.

CTA Gray Line Oct 20, 2014 2:54 PM
Museum Campus Planning Meeting
 
Tomorrow at 6:30pm: http://www.grantparkconservancy.com/...5-B805C3235012

Mr Downtown Oct 21, 2014 3:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse (Post 6774973)
I believe the recent GO electrification study is also available online.
It is. Cost estimated at $1.8 billion, possible savings of as much as $18 million per year. That's a 100 year payback period, even if you assume the money is free, with no opportunity or borrowing cost.

The time savings? For the longest lines . . . .
"between 5 and 10 minutes per trip."

Maybe there would be less expensive ways to save 3-7% of running time.

CTA Gray Line Oct 21, 2014 4:07 AM
How Metra’s New 30-Year Plan Could Reshape Chicago Regional Rail
 
http://nextcity.org/daily/entry/chic...al-rail-future

One of the more salacious details to come out this year about mismanagement at Metra, Chicago’s primary commuter regional rail agency, involves a job applicant with no particular qualifications.......

Detroit1995 Oct 21, 2014 5:10 AM
Madison/Wabash
 
I posted this originally on the Chicago development thread but was told that this would fit much better here (I didn't know this thread existed). But does anyone know the exact date when the Madison/Wabash demolition will begin? I heard spring 2015 then early 2015. Honestly I wish that the station house would be restored since it's still possible.

BVictor1 Oct 21, 2014 5:57 AM
Cermak/Green Line 10/20/14


http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4...D720/ry%3D480/

Jibba Oct 21, 2014 2:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Detroit1995 (Post 6776385)
I posted this originally on the Chicago development thread but was told that this would fit much better here (I didn't know this thread existed). But does anyone know the exact date when the Madison/Wabash demolition will begin? I heard spring 2015 then early 2015. Honestly I wish that the station house would be restored since it's still possible.
There's really nothing worth saving. It's a mess of pigeon shit-covered beams and a lame Neoclassic facade that has all the depth and richness of a theater set:

http://www.trbimg.com/img-1393985536...n-20140304/480
source

BVictor1 Oct 21, 2014 2:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jibba (Post 6776688)
There's really nothing worth saving. It's a mess of pigeon shit-covered beams and a lame Neoclassic facade that has all the depth and richness of a theater set:

http://www.trbimg.com/img-1393985536...n-20140304/480
source
With a proper restoration though, it could look like this...

http://www.chicago-l.org/stations/im.../quincy14t.jpg

Detroit1995 Oct 21, 2014 2:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jibba (Post 6776688)
There's really nothing worth saving. It's a mess of pigeon shit-covered beams and a lame Neoclassic facade that has all the depth and richness of a theater set:

http://www.trbimg.com/img-1393985536...n-20140304/480
source
I mean it is the last remaining house of the original Wabash stations. About a month ago, I went down to photograph the entire stop and while it was in bad shape, I've heard from a few different sources that it's structurally fine. That's the last of it's kind and honestly it has some unique personality.


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